Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

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Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

Yes
129
41%
No
185
59%
 
Total votes: 314

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#101 Post by Greg K »

Mark Golodetz wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 7:08 am -Add the arrogance of the justification, it is pretty obvious where we, the subscribers, stand. I am not sure why he thinks I should pay to be cheated and disrespected.
I can’t figure out how I’m being cheated, is the weird thing. But given what he’s doing, I suspect I am. Which is a bad look for him, imho.

For the record, I’m not a subscriber.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#102 Post by Mark Golodetz »

When I subscribed, it was on the understanding that I was as valued as anybody else. No longer; my subscription is worth less. Hence cheated.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#103 Post by Arv R »

YLee wrote: May 1st, 2021, 5:24 pm
I have never seen wine shops with printed literature outlining how to obtain different level of status and what their benefits are at the same level airlines do when i buy a bottle of wine.
Total Wine actually has some status program. The more one spends on their in house junk, the more email they send -- and at the highest levels I think they enter you into a lottery to buy some expensive Bourbon. (I kid you not)
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#104 Post by Marc Hauser »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:35 pm
Marc Hauser wrote: May 1st, 2021, 8:33 pm
YLee wrote: May 1st, 2021, 5:24 pm

I have never seen wine shops with printed literature outlining how to obtain different level of status and what their benefits are at the same level airlines do when i buy a bottle of wine.
Sure, but the point is that many businesses treat their best customers to benefits that aren’t available to others.

So, if a high-end clothing store lets its best customers know about a pre-sale, is that okay? If a comic book store sets aside a book they know will sell out for a good customer who loves that title, is that okay? Is it wrong for an online store to send coupons with unique codes only to their customers with accounts?

I fail to see how it’s wrong to treat good customers to benefits that aren’t available to one-time customers.
By one time customers you mean the subscribers?

And by good customers you mean the merchant class that prices and sells the items to the one time customers?

Why should the one time customers be upset with that?

I get the “I don’t care about scores but I like the content” posts supporting this. But presenting this as “good customers” instead of trade is misleading.
Marcus, that’s a fair point. I suppose I was responding to the suggestion that it’s not fair for a business to treat good customers differently, but you’re right that it’s drifting away from what’s happening here - this isn’t a retail customer product.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#105 Post by Nigel Bruce »

Peter,
That's a cool Zen-fuelled post - some timeless wisdom buried in there...
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#106 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

HenryB wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:58 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:37 pm
Isn’t the other concern one of favoritism and “up-scoring” for those that play ball, and in particular, those that chose the “custom bespoke options”?

No matter you slice it - or as Galloni and his acolytes try to justify it - it looks feels and is “dirty”.

As I have said, an inherent conflict of interest to what was once his core mission and his core base of customers.

To steal a phrase from a friend who just emailed me this quip, as I know he won’t post it, “the customers have become the product”.
honestly, people always say 'If it's free, you are the product'. AG has gone even further, and done something in business no one else has ever. The product now pays to be the product. Incredible.
Hardly just AG. Just think retailers, banks, Amazon, etc.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#107 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:26 pm I wonder how the poll would look if it were limited to people who actually subscribe to Vinous? Some of the people most outspoken about how he is treating his subscribers, don't appear to be subscribers.

-Al
Has Victor weighed in? This thread seems right in his wheelhouse.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#108 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 1:47 pm
Al Osterheld wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:26 pm I wonder how the poll would look if it were limited to people who actually subscribe to Vinous? Some of the people most outspoken about how he is treating his subscribers, don't appear to be subscribers.

-Al
Has Victor weighed in? This thread seems right in his wheelhouse.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#109 Post by F.Daner »

I'm a subscriber and don't have an issue with it. Vinous produces a tremendous amount of content and he is aggressively growing the business and services they offer. He has transformed and keeps moving the bar on what a wine publication can offer. Content is king and you have a business right to derive revenue from it. You also have a right as a customer to move on so I am not commenting on how anyone else feels. Every business has multiple stakeholders and the broader community they serve. I didn't follow the communication on the topic initially but I think sometimes our wine geek community goes a bit overboard. Regardless he must do what he thinks is best for his business and you have a right to do the same as a consumer.

I joined primarily for the Barolo and some Napa coverage. My palate aligns to AG pretty consistently. The Barolo report comes out well before the wines are available in the US so early access is not going to effect the price I pay. I also aggressively shop wines like most do here and while we have some loyalty to retailers we're also always looking for deals that's why the best online coupon thread has 412k views. I got tremendous value out of the guidance on my 2016 Barolo purchases. It paid for my subscription many times over.

One last note is he is extremely available on the board for Vinous and goes out of his way to provide great service. As someone who owned a business these last 5 years I learned you'll make some folks happy and some folks you won't. That's just the way it is. You have to make a decision and move forward. Some work out and some don't. My guess is AG will continue to grow that business and adjust accordingly.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#110 Post by Peter Chiu »

Nigel Bruce wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 1:19 pm Peter,
That's a cool Zen-fuelled post - some timeless wisdom buried in there...
Nigel....merci.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#111 Post by Michael S. Monie »

Peter Chiu wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 3:24 pm
Nigel Bruce wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 1:19 pm Peter,
That's a cool Zen-fuelled post - some timeless wisdom buried in there...
Nigel....merci.

I was born and educated in Hong Kong. I moved and lived in Montreal, Quebec, Canada way way too long ago. [cheers.gif]
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#112 Post by YLee »

As Robert mentioned, he sold out.
The way I see it antonio is saying give me large sum of money monthly and I will tell you what you should load up and jack up the prices because I know my words will move the market once it's public.

That is the purpose of this special subscription isnt it? Give me money for inside information before it is public and I will help you make more money.
If there was a SEC for wines maybe this would be illegal.

Antonio will say what he needs to say to fill his pocket much as possible without integrity. May not be illegal but sure is sleezy to me.

Just to be clear. I am not saying only my opinion is correct. I am only stating MY THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS on this matter.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#113 Post by Joe G a l e w s k i »

CF Binnig wrote: May 1st, 2021, 3:54 pm It’s his choice and his business model, but in my book, he just went from independent critic for consumers to PR/marketing consultant for producers.

This sums it up perfectly.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#114 Post by Joe G a l e w s k i »

Justin W ells wrote: May 1st, 2021, 9:06 pm I don't care if he charges 2k for early access and find no moral issue in doing so. What I'm wondering is why anyone would care. Do his scores actually move the market in any real quantifiable way?
That is the whole point. According to Antonio Gallonio's pricing, his opinions are worth at least $2000 a month for 48 hours advance notice. If they're NOT worth that price, this discussion is irrelevant.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#115 Post by Jim Brennan »

My guess is that he's had had some detailed statistical analysis done and may even promote and sell the service on the back of analysis that claims proven quantifiable impact from his scores.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#116 Post by RH Drexel »

Galloni thinks his advanced scores are worth 2k a month? That strikes me as a bit arrogant.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#117 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 »

He can charge what he wants for his scores, and people are free to choose to pay for them.

Me not being one of them.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#118 Post by Brian Glas »

Maybe Parker back in his heyday could justify charging $2,000 for advanced notice of score. In 2021 do any of the reviewers have enough clout to move that much wine?

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#119 Post by Al Osterheld »

That's the great thing about a market. If he's miscalculated, he'll know soon enough.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#120 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Brian Glas wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 6:36 pm Maybe Parker back in his heyday could justify charging $2,000 for advanced notice of score. In 2021 do any of the reviewers have enough clout to move that much wine?
Hi Brian,

$24000/$20=1200

1200/12=100

If knowing a 99 point review on a wine ready for release is coming can allow a winery to shift the price on a bottle from $180 to $200, then at 100 cases the winery breaks even on it’s expenditure.

And while Parker’s, and the Spectator’s, ability to be market movers with 92-95 point scores may no longer exist, I would guess that a 99-100 score on a current wine from Vinous or Wine Advocate would definitely generate pretty significant movement, although the winery would already need to be reasonably well established at the $180 price point (so not Oregon.)
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#121 Post by Julian Marshall »

I don't think anyone has brought this up yet - in one of his posts defending his decision, AG mentioned that another publication offers the same, without disclosing the name. I had read somewhere that it was JR, so I had a look, and sure enough, she does:

https://www.jancisrobinson.com/membership

If you don't want to look, there are two 48 hour preview options - Gold, for £125 and Professional, for £180 (per year, not per month!), the difference being that with the more expensive option, you can reuse notes for commercial purposes.

So, you might ask, why should AG not do the same?

Why indeed - well, the difference of the price is not for nothing. Notwithstanding the quality of her work, I don't remember any JR score or note having an impact on any wine's price. I think JR has consciously ploughed her own furrow, which people like or not, but which does not have the same profile as RMP before and AG now. The scoring system is one reason, the notes themselves are another.

The other difference is the openness - JR's is there for all subscribers to see before clicking on the subscription option they prefer.

Also it was not, I imagine, created the week before EP.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#122 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:36 am I don't think anyone has brought this up yet - in one of his posts defending his decision, AG mentioned that another publication offers the same, without disclosing the name. I had read somewhere that it was JR, so I had a look, and sure enough, she does:

https://www.jancisrobinson.com/membership

If you don't want to look, there are two 48 hour preview options - Gold, for £125 and Professional, for £180 (per year, not per month!), the difference being that with the more expensive option, you can reuse notes for commercial purposes.

So, you might ask, why should AG not do the same?

Why indeed - well, the difference of the price is not for nothing. Notwithstanding the quality of her work, I don't remember any JR score or note having an impact on any wine's price. I think JR has consciously ploughed her own furrow, which people like or not, but which does not have the same profile as RMP before and AG now. The scoring system is one reason, the notes themselves are another.

The other difference is the openness - JR's is there for all subscribers to see before clicking on the subscription option they prefer.

Also it was not, I imagine, created the week before EP.

Aside from the obvious and very superficial literal analogy, this is just apples and oranges, in almost every conceivable way.

A bit rich, isn't it? :-)
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#123 Post by M. Meer »



I got 5 on it
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#124 Post by Chris Blum »

Sure. And it’s ok for the plebeian subscribers to say “screw that” and cancel.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#125 Post by Peter Chiu »

Sorry for the thread thrift.

Michael - merci. I love the following lines......it is timeless also and wonderfully true.

*****Of the myriad of involvements in living, there are two primary obligations: to know one's self and to be kind. And the more one engages in one, the more the other becomes apparent.****

Yes - it is so important to know thyself. He, who does not know, speak and he, who speaks, does not know. ( no offense is intended to anyone )

Needless to say : kindness and politeness will always will allow you to go there...... more easily. It has been the First Order in Confucius teaching in China for many, many years.

Regarding the last part ( of the lines ) .. .....Tao offers a similar view in Chapter 48. Here are the translations :

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired. In the pursuit of Tao, everyday something should be dropped from your mind and heart. When less is less on your mind and heart....then it will result with less and less in your actions. Until the state of non-action is achieved......then nothing is left undone in the pursuit of pureness within your mind and heart.

Its aim...... in my view......why one engage in one ? He, who argues, is not kind; he, who is kind, does not argue.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#126 Post by Jeff Vaughan »

I don't like it because it will cost me more money in some instances, but I voted yes. It is his business to run how he wants. It is up to us to decide whether we want to support his business or not.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#127 Post by Michael S. Monie »

Peter Chiu wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 2:26 pm Sorry for the thread thrift.

Michael - merci. I love the following lines......it is timeless also and wonderfully true.

*****Of the myriad of involvements in living, there are two primary obligations: to know one's self and to be kind. And the more one engages in one, the more the other becomes apparent.****

Yes - it is so important to know thyself. He, who does not know, speak and he, who speaks, does not know. ( no offense is intended to anyone )

Needless to say : kindness and politeness will always will allow you to go there...... more easily. It has been the First Order in Confucius teaching in China for many, many years.

Regarding the last part ( of the lines ) .. .....Tao offers a similar view in Chapter 48. Here are the translations :

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired. In the pursuit of Tao, everyday something should be dropped from your mind and heart. When less is less on your mind and heart....then it will result with less and less in your actions. Until the state of non-action is achieved......then nothing is left undone in the pursuit of pureness within your mind and heart.

Its aim...... in my view......why one engage in one ? He, who argues, is not kind; he, who is kind, does not argue.
Thanks for the kind words, Peter. These forums are very useful for teaching Wu Wei.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#128 Post by Mark Golodetz »

It all goes back to the fact that the whole thing is unregulated. And also this is a small newsletter, so there is no division between publisher, editor and writer.

For those who say it is his business, and he can run it any way he wants, let me ask some hypotheticals. Please note, I am absolutely certain that Antonio would never do this. But at what point do we draw the line?

1. An Uber subscriber does not want the publication to publish an 84 point score. Legally fine, problem definitely.
2. All uber subscribers get a 2 point push. Legal I think so, but really problematical.
3. An Uber subscriber asks that a 100 point score be delayed, so he can scoop up any stray wines lying in the market place before the prices go up. Again legal.

I am pretty sure it is all legal, and certainly falls under anybody can run their own business any way they want. But then....
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#129 Post by Anton D »

Mark Golodetz wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 3:16 pm It all goes back to the fact that the whole thing is unregulated. And also this is a small newsletter, so there is no division between publisher, editor and writer.

For those who say it is his business, and he can run it any way he wants, let me ask some hypotheticals. Please note, I am absolutely certain that Antonio would never do this. But at what point do we draw the line?

1. An Uber subscriber does not want the publication to publish an 84 point score. Legally fine, problem definitely.
2. All uber subscribers get a 2 point push. Legal I think so, but really problematical.
3. An Uber subscriber asks that a 100 point score be delayed, so he can scoop up any stray wines lying in the market place before the prices go up. Again legal.

I am pretty sure it is all legal, and certainly falls under anybody can run their own business any way they want. But then....
I voted 'yes' out of apathy. I simply don't care what the guy has to say.

For your questions: I have seen this in Hi Fi and, over time, the people with the shady ethics regarding how they rate things end up losing their audience.

I would take your opinion over Galloni's. [cheers.gif] (Meant in complimentary fashion.)
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#130 Post by Al Osterheld »

Just because his online publication is less regulated than other areas doesn't mean he is unethical or will inevitably become unethical. In any case, he could take bribes without creating a new category of subscriptions.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#131 Post by Neal.Mollen »

I don't think this is a question of unethical behavior. What he's done is both lawful and quite transparent. But what he's done is diminish (for some a lot, for others by very little) the value of his product by giving those who pay more with advance notice of his scores. It means his "regular" subscribers will (presumably) pay higher prices for wines where release prices are pushed up by the pending scores.

Does he have a right to do this? Absolutely. Is he right to do it? Well, those who subscribe will have to decide. I for one don't see it as unethical though.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#132 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Neal.Mollen wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 4:46 pm It means his "regular" subscribers will (presumably) pay higher prices for wines where release prices are pushed up by the pending scores.
His "regular" subscribers and, presumably, everybody else who is not strictly on the business end of this little arrangement.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#133 Post by R Scott Hughes »

Anton D wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 3:54 pm
.......... the people with the shady ethics regarding how they rate things end up losing their audience.
This quote here sums the entire issue quite succinctly. As they say, follow the money - and for AG, he makes money with this only if he can continue to move markets. Protecting his reputation should be his highest priority at this point. I don't really care about scores but this new program actually has me considering a subscription to Vinous. Not only is it smart business, he has now aligned his long-term economic self interest with that of his consumer/subscribers.

As for the theoretical wine buyer who read the scores the second they came out and was able to purchase wines before the price jumped, can someone please find me one of these unicorns? And when you do, please ask them if they feel okay taking advantage of the retailer that was slowing in marking his prices to market.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#134 Post by davidlown »

Tvrtko C. wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 10:41 am
Julian Marshall wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:36 am I don't think anyone has brought this up yet - in one of his posts defending his decision, AG mentioned that another publication offers the same, without disclosing the name. I had read somewhere that it was JR, so I had a look, and sure enough, she does:

https://www.jancisrobinson.com/membership

If you don't want to look, there are two 48 hour preview options - Gold, for £125 and Professional, for £180 (per year, not per month!), the difference being that with the more expensive option, you can reuse notes for commercial purposes.

So, you might ask, why should AG not do the same?

Why indeed - well, the difference of the price is not for nothing. Notwithstanding the quality of her work, I don't remember any JR score or note having an impact on any wine's price. I think JR has consciously ploughed her own furrow, which people like or not, but which does not have the same profile as RMP before and AG now. The scoring system is one reason, the notes themselves are another.

The other difference is the openness - JR's is there for all subscribers to see before clicking on the subscription option they prefer.

Also it was not, I imagine, created the week before EP.

Aside from the obvious and very superficial literal analogy, this is just apples and oranges, in almost every conceivable way.

A bit rich, isn't it? :-)
What are you even talking about? Apples and oranges? It’s literally the same thing but galloni charges more. Oh yah you said that but then completely said the opposite. You are just like most people who argue in 2021 who agree and disagree in the same sentence.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#135 Post by Craig G »

davidlown wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:16 pmWhat are you even talking about? Apples and oranges? It’s literally the same thing but galloni charges more. Oh yah you said that but then completely said the opposite. You are just like most people who argue in 2021 who agree and disagree in the same sentence.
It might be “literally the same thing” but only in the most superficial way. JR’s pricing makes it available to anyone who is already subscribing. You wouldn’t necessarily have to have any financial interest to take that option. For example you just want to have the option to snag the occasional bottle that might otherwise become unavailable. Galloni’s can only make sense if you can profit from it, and is obviously aimed directly at the trade rather than consumers. So yes, it’s totally different.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#136 Post by davidlown »

Craig G wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:27 pm
davidlown wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:16 pmWhat are you even talking about? Apples and oranges? It’s literally the same thing but galloni charges more. Oh yah you said that but then completely said the opposite. You are just like most people who argue in 2021 who agree and disagree in the same sentence.
It might be “literally the same thing” but only in the most superficial way. JR’s pricing makes it available to anyone who is already subscribing. You wouldn’t necessarily have to have any financial interest to take that option. For example you just want to have the option to snag the occasional bottle that might otherwise become unavailable. Galloni’s can only make sense if you can profit from it, and is obviously aimed directly at the trade rather than consumers. So yes, it’s totally different.
Craig, you are completely wrong. It’s the same thing. Except galloni charges more. The only difference is galloni doesn’t have it on his website yet but have you ever run a business where it takes days or months to put it on your website? It’s not totally different; it’s the same thing. But if anyone thinks it’s still inappropriate that’s their opinion. But all of you trying to argue it’s different are just plain incorrect. In fact jancis is a millions times worse as we can all afford to buy jancis’s early system and get these ratings that magically are gonna change the prices and screw all of us consumers. I could easily argue that jancis’s system is much worse as it’s affordable to all.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#137 Post by Mattstolz »

John Glas wrote: May 1st, 2021, 3:54 pm Can you imagine golf digest or golf magazine offering their ratings early to stores so they can stock up on the best reviewed clubs of the year or consumer reports telling Honda you have the best rated car of the year so pay up so you can charge more.

Where is the outrage here?
does this happen with golf clubs? I literally just buy the biggest Bertha I can and swing for the fences.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#138 Post by Craig G »

davidlown wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:34 pm
Craig G wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:27 pm
davidlown wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:16 pmWhat are you even talking about? Apples and oranges? It’s literally the same thing but galloni charges more. Oh yah you said that but then completely said the opposite. You are just like most people who argue in 2021 who agree and disagree in the same sentence.
It might be “literally the same thing” but only in the most superficial way. JR’s pricing makes it available to anyone who is already subscribing. You wouldn’t necessarily have to have any financial interest to take that option. For example you just want to have the option to snag the occasional bottle that might otherwise become unavailable. Galloni’s can only make sense if you can profit from it, and is obviously aimed directly at the trade rather than consumers. So yes, it’s totally different.
Craig, you are completely wrong. It’s the same thing. Except galloni charges more. The only difference is galloni doesn’t have it on his website yet but have you ever run a business where it takes days or months to put it on your website? It’s not totally different; it’s the same thing. But if anyone thinks it’s still inappropriate that’s their opinion. But all of you trying to argue it’s different are just plain incorrect. In fact jancis is a millions times worse as we can all afford to buy jancis’s early system and get these ratings that magically are gonna change the prices and screw all of us consumers. I could easily argue that jancis’s system is much worse as it’s affordable to all.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#139 Post by J a y H a c k »

The simple answer is yes. Is it right for airlines to charge more for first class seats or to give upgrades to frequent flyers? It is right for the sommelier or bartender to occasionally give a bottle or a free drink to a good customer. Is it right for hotels to have VIP programs? Is it right for TSA to have a quick process pre-check which cost me $100? Is it right for Fedex to charge a higher fee for overnight express than for ground shipping? Is it right for wineries to have mailing lists instead of offering wine in a free-for-all on a first come first served basis to anyone who wants it? Is it right for people who pay more to get box seats close to the dugout at baseball games? Is it right for your local steakhouse to charge more for the 42 day dry aged rib steak than for a hamburger? How many of you are members of clubs at airports that allow you to get a free drink and a quiet room during a layover? How many of you are members of country clubs that have exclusive benefits for members? For that matter, how many of you are members of country clubs that exclude people based upon race or religion, or provide inferior benefits to women members. At least Antonio doesn't discriminate in favor of rich fat white guys. This thread is the best example of "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" that I have ever seen.

I wasn't going to participate in this thread but I am so annoyed at the fact that Francisco Lindor just grounded to second to end a Mets rally and he is currently WAY below the Mendoza line, that I needed a good place to vent and this seemed like an appropriate spot.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#140 Post by M.Kaplan »

As Mr Galloni is reading this discussion, perhaps he might chime in and explain how the new pay to play squares with Vinous’ statement of Core Values.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#141 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

M.Kaplan wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:16 pm As Mr Galloni is reading this discussion, perhaps he might chime in and explain how the new pay to play squares with Vinous’ statement of Core Values.
You nailed it! So glad you posted that blurb.

Foisted on his own petard. You could pretty much close the thread after you posted that.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#142 Post by Hal Blumberg »

If we let Galloni be Galloni, he'll charge $20,000/month.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#143 Post by J a y H a c k »

This is not pay to play and anyone who thinks that it is doesn't know the meaning of the phrase.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#144 Post by M.Kaplan »

J a y H a c k wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:37 pm This is not pay to play and anyone who thinks that it is doesn't know the meaning of the phrase.
I know exactly what pay to play means:

Wikipedia: Pay-to-play, sometimes pay-for-play or P2P, is a phrase used for a variety of situations in which money is exchanged for services or the privilege to engage in certain activities.

Perhaps you are misinformed.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#145 Post by JBrochu »

J a y H a c k wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:37 pm This is not pay to play and anyone who thinks that it is doesn't know the meaning of the phrase.
That is not a convincing argument and if you think it is you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#146 Post by J a y H a c k »

I have no patience for debating with amateurs. Pay to play refers to the common business or political corruption in which only people who make a corrupt payment to someone with the ability to provide access or contracts get the benefit of that access or those contracts. We have an entire statutory scheme, the FCPA, designed to deal with the problem. Pay to play does not refer to the fact that things cost money and I have to pay money to join the Admiral's club at the airport or to got to the Met Gala or to join the local country club.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#147 Post by J a y H a c k »

JBrochu wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:43 pm
J a y H a c k wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:37 pm This is not pay to play and anyone who thinks that it is doesn't know the meaning of the phrase.
That is not a convincing argument and if you think it is you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#148 Post by JBrochu »

J a y H a c k wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:53 pm
JBrochu wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:43 pm
J a y H a c k wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:37 pm This is not pay to play and anyone who thinks that it is doesn't know the meaning of the phrase.
That is not a convincing argument and if you think it is you have no idea what you're talking about.
I have no patience for this and I am fed up with people who make arguments like this, so how about if I just call you an idiot and we leave it at that.
My "argument" was a parody of yours.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#149 Post by M.Kaplan »

J a y H a c k wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:52 pm I have no patience for debating with amateurs. Pay to play refers to the common business or political corruption in which only people who make a corrupt payment to someone with the ability to provide access or contracts get the benefit of that access or those contracts. We have an entire statutory scheme, the FCPA, designed to deal with the problem. Pay to play does not refer to the fact that things cost money and I have to pay money to join the Admiral's club at the airport or to got to the Met Gala or to join the local country club.
You are intentionally or ignorantly misapplying a statutory definition unique to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Pay to play has been an issue long predating the adoption of the Act in the late 1970’s that has nothing to do with bribery of public officials.

There are better arguments to support your position. Don’t be facile.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#150 Post by Randy C »

Still trying to figure out how all the self righteous folks on this thread and the other one ever got rich enough to be able to afford good wine when they were always 100% concerned about everyone but themselves and would definitely never no way themselves ever do anything at all to try to maximize their own revenue.

And like I said earlier, Vinous content is first class regardless of scores. I'm still a buyer.
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