Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

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Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

Yes
126
41%
No
181
59%
 
Total votes: 307

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Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#1 Post by R. Smith »

Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#2 Post by Max S. »

I'm voting no with the caveat that it's his business and he can do what he wants with it just like it's my money and I can spend it where I want.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#3 Post by John Glas »

No! I will never subscribe to another critic. They all have cash flowing in some way whether it is this crap, adds or some industry event!

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#4 Post by John Glas »

Who are the six that voted yes???????

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#5 Post by Chris Crutchfield »

Antonio stop voting on the poll

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#6 Post by Tvrtko C. »

You serious? "Is it right" as opposed to what? "Morally wrong"? :-) :-) :-)

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#7 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Right or wrong implies we get to decide how he runs his business. Vote with your wallet, not with a poll of aggrieved wine geeks.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#8 Post by Rauno E (NZ) »

Absolutely. If people are wanting to pay that sort of premium for his “intellectual property” then why would he not take it? Of course, I would shake my head at those who choose to, as well as those who choose not to BUT hold off buying until they see his scores some time later. Seems like a pretty victimless crime?
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#9 Post by Alex Valdes »

John Glas wrote: April 30th, 2021, 3:58 pm Who are the six that voted yes???????
I voted yes. I look at it this way: I pay to read reviews so, if he wants to give people who pay up early access, then fine. I personally wouldn’t pay for it as I get no added value from the earlier time to market but if someone does then great. I don’t understand the big deal.

Even if you think his scores directly move prices in a material way I don’t think it’s an issue: if it mattered enough you would just pay for it. A realization that, in effect, the value of his rating service is actually $2k/month not $20/month.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#10 Post by John Glas »

I voted yes. I look at it this way: I pay to read reviews so, if he wants to give people who pay up early access, then fine. I personally wouldn’t pay for it as I get no added value from the earlier time to market but if someone does then great. I don’t understand the big deal.
$2,000 a month. Still seems like a joke to me. Alex you can just go to Wine Searcher and see all of his ratings for free.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#11 Post by John Glas »

Right or wrong implies we get to decide how he runs his business. Vote with your wallet, not with a poll of aggrieved wine geeks.
David still think this type of business with reviews is wrong! Sets a dangerous slope for anyone with some influence in wine.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#12 Post by Jeff Leve »

It is his business and he has the right to do as he pleases. He could probably lose his entire subscriber base and with only 50 subscribers at 2K a month, make as much or more money than he makes now. The math is in his favor.

Subscribers can also vote with their wallets.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#13 Post by Alex Valdes »

John Glas wrote: April 30th, 2021, 4:56 pm
I voted yes. I look at it this way: I pay to read reviews so, if he wants to give people who pay up early access, then fine. I personally wouldn’t pay for it as I get no added value from the earlier time to market but if someone does then great. I don’t understand the big deal.
$2,000 a month. Still seems like a joke to me. Alex you can just go to Wine Searcher and see all of his ratings for free.
I don’t subscribe to Vinous; I don’t find it worth it even at $20/m. I don’t know who would find this worth it.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#14 Post by YLee »

Chris Crutchfield wrote: April 30th, 2021, 4:06 pm Antonio stop voting on the poll
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#15 Post by Keith A k e r s »

John Glas wrote: April 30th, 2021, 3:58 pm Who are the six that voted yes???????
I did. It's his decision to make and it's your decision to make whether you want to keep your subscription or not. The 2k per month is a trade only rate unless one badly wants to pay that much.

I don't own a shop and the value I get from the site and their reviews is worth my subscription at $200 per year. When it's not worth my subscription, I'll cancel it.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#16 Post by Andrew K. »

John Glas wrote: April 30th, 2021, 3:58 pm Who are the six that voted yes???????
38 now and I'm one of them. Any vendor should treat their best customers differently.

There's a wine dealer that says he treats everyone "fairly" so he doesn't give his better customers a sneak peak on his good deals. I find that frustrating and unacceptable as a consumer. Better customers should be treated special. Always.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#17 Post by Randy C »

of course, yes. Let him make money legally how he wants . . . just like everyone else here commenting on this. And if you're a wine fan who has ever spent more than $150 for one bottle of wine and you still don't think Vinous is worth $140/yr, then I really don't think you're checking out all that he offers and all the great content. It's a bargain at that price imo.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#18 Post by Sean S y d n e y »

Andrew K. wrote: April 30th, 2021, 8:53 pm
John Glas wrote: April 30th, 2021, 3:58 pm Who are the six that voted yes???????
38 now and I'm one of them. Any vendor should treat their best customers differently.

There's a wine dealer that says he treats everyone "fairly" so he doesn't give his better customers a sneak peak on his good deals. I find that frustrating and unacceptable as a consumer. Better customers should be treated special. Always.
Conversely, I think that wine dealer has integrity and understands value beyond how much someone can swing their wallet around.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#19 Post by Chris Seiber »

Jeff Leve wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:17 pm It is his business and he has the right to do as he pleases. He could probably lose his entire subscriber base and with only 50 subscribers at 2K a month, make as much or more money than he makes now. The math is in his favor.

Subscribers can also vote with their wallets.
But he needs subscribers to make the $24K per year worth it to a business, right?

Nobody would pay me a bunch of money to see my TNs early because nobody buys and reads my TNs.

I guess that’s not completely true, since scores move things off shelves even to customers who don’t subscribe, but there is some connection at least. Right?

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#20 Post by Mikael OB »

Voted yes.

If other publication (excluding the one man band) would offer this “service” I think the responses and engagement would be less explosive, however in the case of AG, the strong negative reaction essentially comes from the strong perceived disconnect with the brand promise of what Vinous is and for who. That message has and continues to somehow get hammered but this new revenue stream seem to go against that idea.

If this is Vinous new direction and the perception of optimized commercialization focus prevails I can imagine its relevance will start to decline over time.

Side notes:

1. Appreciate that vinous at least openly shared this new model.
2. There are a lot of very valuable content on vinous disregarding the scores which none of us really cares about unless it brings up prices for our favorite wines (or cumulative with other critics, then prices goes up anyway).
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#21 Post by HenryB »

Chris Seiber wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:30 am But he needs subscribers to make the $24K per year worth it to a business, right?

Nobody would pay me a bunch of money to see my TNs early because nobody buys and reads my TNs.

I guess that’s not completely true, since scores move things off shelves even to customers who don’t subscribe, but there is some connection at least. Right?
Not really imho. considering scores get published quickly onto websites like Farr, for example, you dont need to be a *paying member* of Vinous to be aware of his thoughts on a wine.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#22 Post by HenryB »

Mikael OB wrote: May 1st, 2021, 1:44 am
1. Appreciate that vinous at least openly shared this new model.
2. There are a lot of very valuable content on vinous disregarding the scores which none of us really cares about unless it brings up prices for our favorite wines (or cumulative with other critics, then prices goes up anyway).
a little unclear to me still - was this 'openly' shared? Was it not leaked by someone who was offered to be a part of the preview club first?


Curious to get the record straight mentally, as such
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#23 Post by Tom Taylor »

It was not openly shared. In fact just the opposite
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#24 Post by Ian Sutton »

John Glas wrote: April 30th, 2021, 3:58 pm Who are the six that voted yes???????
Well that's $12,000 a month in the bag then.... Ker-ching!

No vote from me. Like many I used *critics as a crutch before I learnt it was my palate, not theirs that mattered. Hence from my own perspective, he can do what he likes. I never saw him as a customer champion, just someone wanting to make a good living from telling others his opinion, and having them trust him more than their own palates.

I suspect this will be a 'Wizard of Oz' moment for many though - the moment the curtain is drawn back to reveal the reality.

* I'm not against still reading about wine, but it's now very much in the wine writer sphere, with a very select group who I might be motivated by. Chief amongst those is Ian d'Agata, someone whose love of wine and all that surrounds the making of it, shines through strongly. In his way he's still bad for us consumers, because his enthusiasm is barely contained, and that enthusiasm does rub off on us. His enthusiasm encourages exploration, rather than curating a highly pointed collection. A thirst for knowledge and experience, with enjoyment of the journey.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#25 Post by T. Williams »

I voted Yes.

Is it right? Probably if he uses it as a conduit for additional revenue. I think sometimes people forget that wine critics aren't living some monk life on a hillside reviewing and tasting wine for the worlds benefit. If this option brings in revenue and thus profit, why not?

Am I going to spend the money, no. Absolutely not. But someone who values the information will.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#26 Post by R Scott Hughes »

This is really a fascinating thread. I not only voted yes, I think that Galloni would be a fool not to offer a pay-to-preview service. The only possible harm to consumers would be those that, prior to this service, read the scores the second they were made public and rushed out to buy some wine that got a surprisingly high review before the retailer might bump the price. That would be about 0.000001% of the wine buying world. All this does is shift around in the supply chain a little bit who is able to capture the extra value that is being generated the Galloni generated scores. And since AG is the one creating this value, why should he leave all of that money on the table for the wholesalers or retailers?

For those that cancelled their subscriptions, did you originally subscribe for the scores or the content? Based on the generally high level of discourse on WB related to wine (as opposed to the low level of discourse on other subjects) I would have thought that the scores were an afterthought, at most, to the typical Berserker. That content hasn't changed.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#27 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

YLee wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:20 pm
Chris Crutchfield wrote: April 30th, 2021, 4:06 pm Antonio stop voting on the poll
[rofl.gif]
Haha yes, thats a funny ass post, love it!
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#28 Post by Tom R W »

Why does Galloni move wine markets?
Because he’s an accurate, consistent wine critic?
Because he’s developed a loyal following among wine geeks?
Both?

Would Galloni still move markets if Wine Geeks and the average wine consumer no longer thought he was a premier wine critic?
Would businesses still be interested in his $2000/month premium subscription if he had no regular $20/month subscribers?
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#29 Post by Victor Hong »

Yes.
He has the freedom to offer. Readers have the freedom to decline.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#30 Post by Mikael OB »

HenryB wrote: May 1st, 2021, 2:36 am
Mikael OB wrote: May 1st, 2021, 1:44 am
1. Appreciate that vinous at least openly shared this new model.
2. There are a lot of very valuable content on vinous disregarding the scores which none of us really cares about unless it brings up prices for our favorite wines (or cumulative with other critics, then prices goes up anyway).
a little unclear to me still - was this 'openly' shared? Was it not leaked by someone who was offered to be a part of the preview club first?


Curious to get the record straight mentally, as such
Might be that I misread the other post.Thought it was made available on vinous? If not, disregard point 1. Regardless, thanks for getting that point straightened out.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#31 Post by TimF »

Are equities market analysts allowed to sell previews to their recommendations before they are made public? Seems like a similar situation.

I don’t care about scores. If he can get people to pay, good for him.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#32 Post by HenryB »

one should be clear, though, an analyst does NOT get access to isnide information when forming their preview/recommendation/report.

I see that as being *quite* different to the wine critics, who DO get to taste the product. That, for me, is the 'inside knowledge'.

The equivalent to the stock market analyst would be the dude who cruises cellar tracker, knows in detail about production, likely lifetime, etc, and generates report and output, without having actually tasted the wine themselves


If an equity analyst got inside information, and then sold that as a service to people before they published it publicly (lets say, the full year financial results for example) - they'd be going to prison pretty quickly
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#33 Post by Alan Gottlieb »

I voted yes

Not sure the consumer is affected at all by this business decision (they already are impacted by the scores)

All agree scores drive prices up. That is what is happening now. Two days earlier for some retailers to know the scores will really not impact the consumer (It happens now)

What it does do is give the retailer an advantage over other retailers to place larger orders on those higher scoring wines they know will sell quickly. Yes and raise prices for some wines that they are already doing. That is the value not all this other speculation that already happens. Winners and "losers" will be among the retailers not the consumer That is why the retailers are willing to pay and see the value

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#34 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Yea I posit again that the framing of the question really skews the issue at hand. Most of us free market people will never say it is “wrong” with what he or anyone does with their business, so long as it is legal. The question is whether him doing this compromises the (perhaps naively-anointed) credibility and integrity that many of us want from critics on any subject. To me this is an inherent conflict of interest, making him more and more of a shill for the industry rather than a source for consumers for credible information. While I do not subscribe, if I did, I would immediately be out. He sold out.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#35 Post by Scott Brunson »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:16 am Yea I posit again that the framing of the question really skews the issue at hand. Most of us free market people will never say it is “wrong” with what he or anyone does with their business, so long as it is legal. The question is whether him doing this compromises the (perhaps naively-anointed) credibility and integrity that many of us want from critics on any subject. To me this is an inherent conflict of interest, making him more and more of a shill for the industry rather than a source for consumers for credible information. While I do not subscribe, if I did, I would immediately be out. He sold out.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#36 Post by JBrochu »

Yes, it seems like many people are reading the question as: "is it his right", while I think the OP meant, "is it ethically right".
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#37 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

JBrochu wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:57 am Yes, it seems like many people are reading the question as: "is it his right", while I think the OP meant, "is it ethically right".
Yup.

BTW, love the OP’s signature, so apropos to this issue
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Too bad some others in the industry don’t think more like that.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#38 Post by Jeff Leve »

Chris Seiber wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:30 am
Jeff Leve wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:17 pm It is his business and he has the right to do as he pleases. He could probably lose his entire subscriber base and with only 50 subscribers at 2K a month, make as much or more money than he makes now. The math is in his favor.

Subscribers can also vote with their wallets.
But he needs subscribers to make the $24K per year worth it to a business, right?

Nobody would pay me a bunch of money to see my TNs early because nobody buys and reads my TNs.

I guess that’s not completely true, since scores move things off shelves even to customers who don’t subscribe, but there is some connection at least. Right?
He is not going to lose many subscribers. But even if he did, the number of subscribers pales in comparison to shelf-talkers, online quotes etc. Plus he does not publish his list of subscribers.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#39 Post by Mattstolz »

while i dont think its right (and voted so), it is a pretty high premium for the information. how many times does that investment even really pay off for a retailer? most of the time, the wines that get scores where it would make a difference are already expensive. the ones where there could really be big price jumps are not gonna make up a 2k difference very easily (thinking of times like the Sonoma Hillsides 100point score). most cali cabs release with the scores already out, most bordeaux that are gonna get big price bumps are bought en primeur, and Galloni doesnt hand out big scores in Burgundy. Hes also typically already scored a Barolo 2-3x before its even released so it doesnt really help anyone there either.

I mostly just dont see how a 2k price tag per month gets justified.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#40 Post by Julian Marshall »

AG must be quite reassured that on WB, not Vinous, he actually has 44% approval, unless his entire family, employees, friends plus the entire staff of all the businesses which already signed up are taking turns to vote!

Anyway, the Doubting Thomases are right in one respect - if this caper doesn't produce extra profits for those willing to sign up, they will drop it like a stone so it will be back to square one - and we will see if the Vinous business model really is flawed or if the whole thing was a scam.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#41 Post by Craig G »

HenryB wrote: May 1st, 2021, 5:35 am one should be clear, though, an analyst does NOT get access to isnide information when forming their preview/recommendation/report.

I see that as being *quite* different to the wine critics, who DO get to taste the product. That, for me, is the 'inside knowledge'.

The equivalent to the stock market analyst would be the dude who cruises cellar tracker, knows in detail about production, likely lifetime, etc, and generates report and output, without having actually tasted the wine themselves


If an equity analyst got inside information, and then sold that as a service to people before they published it publicly (lets say, the full year financial results for example) - they'd be going to prison pretty quickly
I think the point was that important analysts’ recommendations will move the market, so they are the inside information. That’s the same here, assuming he is important enough.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#42 Post by Craig G »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 1st, 2021, 7:34 am
JBrochu wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:57 am Yes, it seems like many people are reading the question as: "is it his right", while I think the OP meant, "is it ethically right".
Yup.

BTW, love the OP’s signature, so apropos to this issue
“Our integrity is not for sale." - Graeme MacDonald

Too bad some others in the industry don’t think more like that.
LOL, I had the same thought. Is it right? Of course it’s not right. But is it his right? Absolutely.

I’m trying to imagine what would have been said if Parker had done this, or if Wine Spectator sold early access to their WOTY.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#43 Post by Mattstolz »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 1st, 2021, 8:36 am AG must be quite reassured that on WB, not Vinous, he actually has 44% approval, unless his entire family, employees, friends plus the entire staff of all the businesses which already signed up are taking turns to vote!

Anyway, the Doubting Thomases are right in one respect - if this caper doesn't produce extra profits for those willing to sign up, they will drop it like a stone so it will be back to square one - and we will see if the Vinous business model really is flawed or if the whole thing was a scam.
meh. i think thats an issue of wording.

if the poll had asked "are you OK with galloni giving early access"... or "will you continue to subscribe now that there is early access" or "is it a conflict of interests..."

but whether its right or wrong is a much more debatable topic.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#44 Post by Sean S y d n e y »

Disappointed to not see a custom bespoke poll option available.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#45 Post by Mike Evans »

I’m a Vinous subscriber and the preview plan doesn’t bother me in the least.

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#46 Post by larry schaffer »

Craig G wrote: May 1st, 2021, 8:47 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 1st, 2021, 7:34 am
JBrochu wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:57 am Yes, it seems like many people are reading the question as: "is it his right", while I think the OP meant, "is it ethically right".
Yup.

BTW, love the OP’s signature, so apropos to this issue
“Our integrity is not for sale." - Graeme MacDonald

Too bad some others in the industry don’t think more like that.
LOL, I had the same thought. Is it right? Of course it’s not right. But is it his right? Absolutely.

I’m trying to imagine what would have been said if Parker had done this, or if Wine Spectator sold early access to their WOTY.
Oh, the lynch mob we would see . . .

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#47 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Sean S y d n e y wrote: May 1st, 2021, 8:54 am Disappointed to not see a custom bespoke poll option available.

Ha, I’d love to see those custom bespoke options!

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#48 Post by Paul Flynn »

I think this just makes the point that Galloni isn't a consumer advocate. He's a Galloni advocate.
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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#49 Post by Paul Miller »

Is the concern that people paying $2,000 to be in the know going to buy up a highly rated wine before everyone else?

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Re: Is it right for Antonio Galloni to give early access to scores to those who pay $2000/month?

#50 Post by Arv R »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:16 am Yea I posit again that the framing of the question really skews the issue at hand. Most of us free market people will never say it is “wrong” with what he or anyone does with their business, so long as it is legal. The question is whether him doing this compromises the (perhaps naively-anointed) credibility and integrity that many of us want from critics on any subject. To me this is an inherent conflict of interest, making him more and more of a shill for the industry rather than a source for consumers for credible information. While I do not subscribe, if I did, I would immediately be out. He sold out.
I applaud the proper use of 'posit'.

Why don't all let Galloni be Galloni, and everyone can be themselves?
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