Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
R. Frankel
BerserkerDay Council
BerserkerDay Council
Posts: 2125
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#451 Post by R. Frankel »

For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
Rich Frankel

Chris Crutchfield
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 833
Joined: February 17th, 2011, 10:49 pm
Has thanked: 119 times
Been thanked: 87 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#452 Post by Chris Crutchfield »

R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8156
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 178 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#453 Post by Mark Golodetz »

R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
A good point. There is a difference, and I have already sent Vinous an e mail telling them not to renew my subscription.

I know my data is being sold. I am not happy that it happens, but it is a known payback for free data and even done by entities I subscribe to. I assumed Galloni has already milked my data as much as he could.

This is different. This is actually reducing the value of my subscription, and may end up costing me as some producers will use the information to raise prices. It probably won’t affect me that much, but I really dislike the underhand way he went about it.

It is certainly legal, it is a business choice and Galloni has every right to make. But for the threads on this board, I would never have known about it. Is it moral? Not in my book.
ITB

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 19905
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside
Has thanked: 322 times
Been thanked: 174 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#454 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

Jim Brennan wrote: May 1st, 2021, 7:58 am ...

It seems pretty clear that this is about whether critics are serving consumers or they are serving producers/distributors/retailers. What AG has communicated pretty clearly is that he's willing to chance that his real audience is the trade, and the consumer relationship is really just a means to an end. If he really wants to turn the industry on its head, maybe he makes his newsletter free to consumers since it's not really their money he wants anyway. He wants to essentially sell influence, create market impact, and enable profit optimization to the big money end of that equation, so why not just cut the thread on charging consumers (potentially growing his readership massively) to also dispense with the phony idea that he's publishing this newsletter/website for consumers. ...
[winner.gif]
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT: grafstrb

User avatar
Al Osterheld
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8127
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#455 Post by Al Osterheld »

I've subscribed to Vinous for five or six years, since they acquired Tanzer's product. This change really doesn't matter to me. Most of the wines I drink are unlikely to have their prices affected by the change. I buy some that probably will in some vintages, but I don't jump on new articles and run out to attempt to buy high scoring wines. I decided a long time ago not to try chase shooting stars. I prefer to buy wines made in styles I enjoy and to follow them over tine and vintages, not to buy a collection of bottles somebody thought were near perfection. That's a very subjective designation and when I've tried wines with super high scores I generally don't enjoy any more than many other wines and, depending on vintage, region, and critic, sometimes a good bit less.

I realize other will be unhappy the change makes it harder to buy ceertain wines before a potential price wines. But, I really don't understand the claims that it's unethical or immoral.

-Al

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 19905
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside
Has thanked: 322 times
Been thanked: 174 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#456 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

John Morris wrote: May 1st, 2021, 9:32 am
Gregory Dal Piaz wrote: May 1st, 2021, 9:27 am
Jim Brennan wrote: May 1st, 2021, 7:58 am
If he really wants to turn the industry on its head, maybe he makes his newsletter free to consumers since it's not really their money he wants anyway. He wants to essentially sell influence, create market impact, and enable profit optimization to the big money end of that equation, so why not just cut the thread on charging consumers (potentially growing his readership massively) to also dispense with the phony idea that he's publishing this newsletter/website for consumers.
This is the most sensible path. The value to the trade depends on the response by consumers. Maximizing exposure to consumers is the first step towards maximizing value to the trade.
On the other hand, much of the value to the trade stems from credibility, and serious support from readers. Advertisers pay much more for paid subscriptions than they do for give-aways. If Vinous stopped collecting money from consumers, I think that would erode the value to the trade. It would certainly undercut the credibility with readers.
These three comments = hitting the nail on the head.
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT: grafstrb

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 19905
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside
Has thanked: 322 times
Been thanked: 174 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#457 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

Neil Martin would fit perfectly, imo, with The World of Fine Wine. Not saying he would be interested in going there, however.
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT: grafstrb

User avatar
Michael S. Monie
Posts: 4584
Joined: May 14th, 2013, 7:36 am
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#458 Post by Michael S. Monie »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:55 am I realize other will be unhappy the change makes it harder to buy ceertain wines before a potential price wines. But, I really don't understand the claims that it's unethical or immoral.

-Al
"A man cannot serve two masters"?
Hubris Gravitas

Of the myriad of involvements in living, there are two primary obligations: to know one's self and to be kind. And the more one engages in one, the more the other becomes apparent.

User avatar
Keith Levenberg
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5774
Joined: June 6th, 2009, 3:11 pm
Location: Washington, D.C.
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#459 Post by Keith Levenberg »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:55 am I've subscribed to Vinous for five or six years, since they acquired Tanzer's product. This change really doesn't matter to me. Most of the wines I drink are unlikely to have their prices affected by the change.
I'd worry more about overpaying for the wine criticism than overpaying for the wine. Even if it doesn't affect the other products you want to buy, you're still buying editorial content from a company that put a price tag on its integrity - and a cheap price at that.

Good to see this thread and the subscription cancellations continuing.

User avatar
GregT
Posts: 8959
Joined: April 15th, 2009, 3:12 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#460 Post by GregT »

[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]
G . T a t a r

[i]"the incorrect overuse of apostrophes is staggering these days. I wonder if half the adults these days have any idea what they are for." Chris Seiber, 5/14/19[/i]

R. Frankel
BerserkerDay Council
BerserkerDay Council
Posts: 2125
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#461 Post by R. Frankel »

Chris Crutchfield wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:25 am
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Well we can agree to differ about whether my point is relevant.
Rich Frankel

User avatar
Al Osterheld
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8127
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#462 Post by Al Osterheld »

I don't think Galloni is serving any masters, just offering a product that people can decide to buy, or not.

As far as paying or overpaying Galloni, I never subscribed to get an idea of which wines to buy before his scores drove prices up. Whether it's Galloni, his writers, or Keith Levenberg, I find their descriptions of wines interesting even if I don't consider any of them infallible and don't base buying plans on those descriptions.

Is it unethical or immoral for a writer to publish notes on wines before they're available to purchase, or should they wait until they're on the market or available as futures?

-Al

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 40928
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#463 Post by Neal.Mollen »

R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like.
I am not even sure what this would look like. Are you saying that they selling advanced copies of their stories to political parties? What are you suggesting?
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 25483
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 265 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#464 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Neal.Mollen wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 2:44 pm
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like.
I am not even sure what this would look like. Are you saying that they selling advanced copies of their stories to political parties? What are you suggesting?
Was thinking the same thing. Couldn’t understand the correlation. Would it be like me paying a fee to watch MSNBC, learning later than their profits go to fund the GOP?
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)


@lfert

R. Frankel
BerserkerDay Council
BerserkerDay Council
Posts: 2125
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#465 Post by R. Frankel »

Neal.Mollen wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 2:44 pm
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like.
I am not even sure what this would look like. Are you saying that they selling advanced copies of their stories to political parties? What are you suggesting?
Neal, I'm not suggesting anything nefarious (though if we can imagine it, people are doing it). Just that media businesses work really hard to monetize their content/brand/ad space/data/consumers in any way that they can think of, within whatever bounds of legality or ethics they care about.

Some relevant examples: we all know the NY Times has content about wine. They also run ads about wine in those same sections about wine. They also make choices about what wine to include in their content. Perhaps they have a product which informs advertisers about the upcoming editorial schedule. If they have a soon-to-be-published article in Wine School about, say, Bandol reds, I'm sure that large wine retailers would like to know so they can keep a good stock of Tempier and other major producers. What about (purely hypothetical) an event in NY hosted by Eric Asimov about the future of wine? I'm sure some folks would like to know about it, and sponsor it. If it's focused, say, on upcoming producers of South America, again, the sponsors would like to know well in advance.

These are just some wine specific ideas (thank you NY Times if you haven't thought of these). These are perfectly reasonable, at least to me. Others might not like it. Multiply this times every interest covered in every major content media outlet. Add in all the data-related products that some would find inoffensive, others would find absurdly horrible. I could make up examples if you'd like.
Rich Frankel

R. Frankel
BerserkerDay Council
BerserkerDay Council
Posts: 2125
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#466 Post by R. Frankel »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 3:00 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 2:44 pm
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like.
I am not even sure what this would look like. Are you saying that they selling advanced copies of their stories to political parties? What are you suggesting?
Was thinking the same thing. Couldn’t understand the correlation. Would it be like me paying a fee to watch MSNBC, learning later than their profits go to fund the GOP?
I gave an examples above, but my point is that media companies find ways to monetize their content other than through subscription or advertising. That's what they do.

BTW another thing they don't do is put a lot of effort (or indeed any) into telling their readers what all their business programs are. In larger organizations than Vinous, they often work hard to completely separate the editorial and the business departments to minimize these kinds of conflicts.
Rich Frankel

User avatar
Michael S. Monie
Posts: 4584
Joined: May 14th, 2013, 7:36 am
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#467 Post by Michael S. Monie »

As the titular AG sock puppet (as designated by Bill Klapp) my take on it is: "He took it all too far, but boy can he play guitar."
Hubris Gravitas

Of the myriad of involvements in living, there are two primary obligations: to know one's self and to be kind. And the more one engages in one, the more the other becomes apparent.

RH Drexel
Posts: 20
Joined: December 28th, 2020, 4:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, CA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#468 Post by RH Drexel »

That preview offer at rhat price indicates to me that Galloni has given his own influence a much inflated score.
Sao Anash
Pen Name: RH Drexel
ITB/Writer/Publicist/Marketing Consultant
Late Bloomer

User avatar
Craig G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 17013
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:57 am
Location: Town of Cats
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#469 Post by Craig G »

Michael S. Monie wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 11:27 am
Al Osterheld wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:55 am I realize other will be unhappy the change makes it harder to buy ceertain wines before a potential price wines. But, I really don't understand the claims that it's unethical or immoral.

-Al
"A man cannot serve two masters"?
Some of us are ambidextrous?

[shrug.gif]
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

User avatar
R M Kriete
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 720
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 8:07 am
Location: Indialantic, Florida
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#470 Post by R M Kriete »

The Government does scores of things I find unethical. How can I cancel my subscription?

User avatar
Julian Marshall
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1270
Joined: August 12th, 2011, 4:44 am
Location: Next to Auvers sur Oise, France
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#471 Post by Julian Marshall »

Michael S. Monie wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 3:31 pm As the titular AG sock puppet (as designated by Bill Klapp) my take on it is: "He took it all too far, but boy can he play guitar."
Or

"The best things in life are free
But you can give them to the birds and bees
I want money
That's what I want"

User avatar
Marshall Manning
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 1107
Joined: January 31st, 2009, 1:16 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#472 Post by Marshall Manning »

Craig G wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:25 am
Some of us are ambidextrous?

[shrug.gif]
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
Marshall

User avatar
M.Kaplan
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 5342
Joined: April 18th, 2009, 9:10 am
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#473 Post by M.Kaplan »

R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
Some things are different than others; your comparison isn't applicable. A better comparison, although no means perfect, would be if Consumer Reports established financial ties to automobile and appliance manufactures and sales outlets without informing their existing membership that they were accepting payments from those whose products they review on behalf of consumers. The media companies that you string together above do not proclaim financial independence in their mission statements and puffery to subscribers, as does Vinous:

Independence
From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.
Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade[1]. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003. Occasionally we will share a working lunch or dinner with a winemaker if doing so helps save time during the day, something that can be an issue in places where wineries are separated by considerable distance. In those rare instances we insist on absolute simplicity.


[1] Marzia’s uncle owns a vineyard in Friuli that I review because it is a benchmark estate for the region. Full disclosure is always attached to reviews. Readers can decide for themselves if those reviews are helpful or not.
—Mark

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik
Posts: 187
Joined: October 7th, 2014, 10:40 am
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#474 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik »

RH Drexel wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 7:13 am That preview offer at rhat price indicates to me that Galloni has given his own influence a much inflated score.
Funny:)
ITB. www.brixwine.se

R. Frankel
BerserkerDay Council
BerserkerDay Council
Posts: 2125
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#475 Post by R. Frankel »

M.Kaplan wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 11:10 am
Some things are different than others; your comparison isn't applicable.
Take a look at this. I think the comparison is highly relevant.

https://www.nytimes.com/editorial-stand ... alism.html#
Rich Frankel

Carl Steefel
Posts: 1186
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 3:45 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#476 Post by Carl Steefel »

Keith Levenberg wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 11:50 am
Al Osterheld wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:55 am I've subscribed to Vinous for five or six years, since they acquired Tanzer's product. This change really doesn't matter to me. Most of the wines I drink are unlikely to have their prices affected by the change.
I'd worry more about overpaying for the wine criticism than overpaying for the wine. Even if it doesn't affect the other products you want to buy, you're still buying editorial content from a company that put a price tag on its integrity - and a cheap price at that.

Good to see this thread and the subscription cancellations continuing.
$120 a year for a subscription does not seem like a lot to me, unless you do not value the criticism at all (which seems to be the true in your case)... Certainly far less than most of us spend on wine in a year...

Carl Steefel
Posts: 1186
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 3:45 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#477 Post by Carl Steefel »

Michael S. Monie wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 3:31 pm As the titular AG sock puppet (as designated by Bill Klapp) my take on it is: "He took it all too far, but boy can he play guitar."
Even the quintessential Wine Bully Klapp gets his say here...

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18827
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#478 Post by John Morris »

R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 3:05 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 2:44 pm
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like.
I am not even sure what this would look like. Are you saying that they selling advanced copies of their stories to political parties? What are you suggesting?
Neal, I'm not suggesting anything nefarious (though if we can imagine it, people are doing it). Just that media businesses work really hard to monetize their content/brand/ad space/data/consumers in any way that they can think of, within whatever bounds of legality or ethics they care about.

Some relevant examples: we all know the NY Times has content about wine. They also run ads about wine in those same sections about wine. They also make choices about what wine to include in their content. Perhaps they have a product which informs advertisers about the upcoming editorial schedule. If they have a soon-to-be-published article in Wine School about, say, Bandol reds, I'm sure that large wine retailers would like to know so they can keep a good stock of Tempier and other major producers. What about (purely hypothetical) an event in NY hosted by Eric Asimov about the future of wine? I'm sure some folks would like to know about it, and sponsor it. If it's focused, say, on upcoming producers of South America, again, the sponsors would like to know well in advance.

These are just some wine specific ideas (thank you NY Times if you haven't thought of these). These are perfectly reasonable, at least to me. Others might not like it. Multiply this times every interest covered in every major content media outlet. Add in all the data-related products that some would find inoffensive, others would find absurdly horrible. I could make up examples if you'd like.
You are speculating without a lot of knowledge.

There are, indeed, lots of conflicts, real and potential, at trade publications, because any ancillary business lines outside of journalism will likely be based on tapping their subjects for money -- taking out ads in publications, sponsoring events. Indeed, their are trade "publications" whose main revenue source is events.

But big news organizations like the NY Times don't make a lot of money off of events, and their ad revenue is not very dependent on the subjects they cover because their coverage and audiences are too broad. Those publications are not an efficient ad or event buy for the subjects because they're not very targeted. The political parties and even big companies like Apple and General Motors, though heavily covered, aren't important revenue sources

What those organizations DON'T do is purport to be a source of important, unbiased information for subscribers and then sell early access to potentially market-moving news to others. The core businesses of Reuters, Dow Jones and Bloomberg is selling news that can effect the market, and charge a huge premium for that. And they don't sell ads. Reuters and Bloomberg give away some of that content free with a delay, or charge consumers for limited, delayed feeds, either to advertise themselves or earn a little extra income. But everyone knows what they're paying for and what they're not. Moreover, if their main product -- the expensive, real time news feeds -- were compromised because they skewed their reporting about major subscribers, the value of the service would be very rapidly diminished.

(Disclosure: I've worked for two large news organizations and two trade publications.)
"We only listen to the end of sentences out of politeness. In life, there’s only talking and waiting to talk." — @EdwardZwick1

"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

Tvrtko C.
Posts: 1229
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 9:30 am
Location: Brussels, Europe
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#479 Post by Tvrtko C. »

John Morris wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 12:23 pm You are speculating without a lot of knowledge.
Oh my goodness... No! He's just "making up examples"... [cheers.gif]
C=Cernos

Charlie Carnes
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 2894
Joined: April 30th, 2010, 2:13 pm
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#480 Post by Charlie Carnes »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 1st, 2021, 1:05 am


The next step of course is only a click or two away - when a door is opened like this one, when retailers and wineries have a much closer relationship with a supposedly neutral critic, how long until one of them suggests that they could "use" a good score for one or more of their products, in return for an even bigger monthly fee, and how long until the critic accepts? The fact that wineries can send their products to be tasted outside of the usual editorial calendar dates merely emphasises the subtext.
Love what you just wrote. But this paragraph has already come true. It’s been set up for years, think about it. The winemakers don’t even have to ask for quod pro quo. It’s already established in years of padded/friendly high scoring...
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts... Patrick Henry

Siun o'Connell
BerserkerDay Council
BerserkerDay Council
Posts: 6906
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 9:02 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#481 Post by Siun o'Connell »

Every publication that's at all professionally run has an editorial calendar detailing the main topics planned for a given issue. The calendars are normally developed for the year though clearly time sensitive items may lead to changes. These calendars are routinely available to PR people who can then pitch inclusion of the client in the coverage and available to ad buyers to plan when they want to buy space. I was surprised to see that Galloni was including access to his editorial calendar as a perk that is paid for ... I've never seen that before.

Non pay for play publications let you know the calendar but they do not let you know the contents -- reviews, ratings, etc - but there have alway been pubs that have no wall between publishing and editorial and those publications also do not have credibility. I've done PR was well as bought and sold ad space and pre-release of results of ratings or reviews was never part of the mix at credible publications. That said, two days advance notice seems a minimal advantage and I wonder how many takers AG has particularly at that price. Curious if folks ITB think it's enough time to actually lead to a real $ advantage?

William Jones
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 55
Joined: December 8th, 2010, 10:46 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#482 Post by William Jones »

What those organizations DON'T do is purport to be a source of important, unbiased information for subscribers [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]

User avatar
Arv R
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4653
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 3:53 pm
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#483 Post by Arv R »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 1st, 2021, 1:05 am After a brief moment of wavering, it now looks as if AG fully intends to implement this new policy, just as the EP season is about to begin. Of course it's his absolute right to do so, it's his business. Of course not everyone will be affected in the short term, but in the long term, everyone will, because if the policy is a success, it will spread. Retailers and wineries will sign up if those that did so first have clearly benefited. Other critics will offer the same "service", so whether or not anyone thinks they talk sense or balderdash, it will have an effect on prices.

I suppose that ultimately, what will make a difference is the impact on his credibility. He will either be seen as a visionary, someone who has miraculously succeeded in making businesses pay a much larger fee for information that some were purloining and profiting from for free after publication of reports, or as a charlatan who never did understand the role of a "critic", one of providing a reliable opinion to consumer subscribers who pay for something they cannot do themselves - taste a myriad of products before deciding which ones to buy, thereby giving those subscribers a chance to buy at the best possible price, safe in the knowledge that they are the early birds that will catch the worm.

What is clear for me, at least, is that AG cannot claim to be protecting the interests of his subscribers, and that of other consumers, while raking in cash from businesses which will increase prices. The argument that the increased revenue will fund further coverage to the benefit of all is total B.S. On the contrary even, if further coverage produces further "stars" whose prices rise because their owners sign up for the "bespoke service" which allows them to increase prices in full knowledge of the great write-up they are about to have, it would be much better if there was less coverage.

The next step of course is only a click or two away - when a door is opened like this one, when retailers and wineries have a much closer relationship with a supposedly neutral critic, how long until one of them suggests that they could "use" a good score for one or more of their products, in return for an even bigger monthly fee, and how long until the critic accepts? The fact that wineries can send their products to be tasted outside of the usual editorial calendar dates merely emphasises the subtext.

This is why the whole thing is a form of corruption - because that is where it will end. Once you have sold your soul, you can't give the money back.

So far, the other Vinous writers have been silent about all this. Not a word. It would be interesting to know what they think of the way their own principles have been hijacked by their employer. I find it hard to believe that they agree with it, but maybe I really am naïve.

Anyone who subscribes to Vinous can just walk away, as I have done. The more that do so, the more this will have an impact. Anyone else, well, I don't know, but it's encouraging that this sort of thread exists.
I wonder if Rimmerman is reading this thread....I got an email this afternoon from Garagiste hawking back vintage Rauzan Gassies quoting "Julian Marshall" reviews!

I hope Julian is getting rendered unto Caesar what is his due!!! (I'd ask for known sneak peaks at some of the mystery wines, 48 hours before the rest of the world gets the offer....)
R_@_0

Andy Sc
Posts: 312
Joined: August 2nd, 2019, 4:20 am
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#484 Post by Andy Sc »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:55 am But, I really don't understand the claims that it's unethical or immoral.
You're building up your side with claims that you're serving the customer and only the customer. You build a strong following. Because of that you influence market prices. Through the backdoor and without announcing it, you're trying to capitalize on that customer following by selling price moving insider information to the trade. The trade accepts the high 24k price a year because it allows them to charge customers a multiple of that 24k a year more. In the end the customer who made the plattform strong pays not only the 24k the trade paid to consumers but a multiple of that. You as Galloni understand economics and business, so you know you're selling out your customers but try to deny that.

Not a good, ethical business practice in my book.
Andrew Scheppler - Based in Europe, a special place for Bordeaux and Burgundy but with love for so many regions every now and then.

User avatar
Julian Marshall
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1270
Joined: August 12th, 2011, 4:44 am
Location: Next to Auvers sur Oise, France
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#485 Post by Julian Marshall »

Charlie Carnes wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 5:05 pm
Julian Marshall wrote: May 1st, 2021, 1:05 am


The next step of course is only a click or two away - when a door is opened like this one, when retailers and wineries have a much closer relationship with a supposedly neutral critic, how long until one of them suggests that they could "use" a good score for one or more of their products, in return for an even bigger monthly fee, and how long until the critic accepts? The fact that wineries can send their products to be tasted outside of the usual editorial calendar dates merely emphasises the subtext.
Love what you just wrote. But this paragraph has already come true. It’s been set up for years, think about it. The winemakers don’t even have to ask for quod pro quo. It’s already established in years of padded/friendly high scoring...
Thanks Charlie - I'm probably just incredibly stupid but I don't think that's the case for all of them.

Back in Parker's heyday, I don't believe there was any real or implicit mutual backscratching - he clearly liked one style of wine more than any other, so in view of his oracle-like status, dozens of wineries pandered to that taste. Whether that taste influenced the public's or vice versa is like the chicken vs the egg, but all clearly benefited - prices and sales rocketed. I'm probably over-thinking this, but I suspect that Parker was secretly rather insecure and that the mutual love-in acted like a carapace against the increasing number of brickbats in the final years. But that's not corruption.

Neal Martin, unlike Parker, doesn't have a "style" he clearly prefers, and doesn't have any agenda. I'm reminded of the anonymous Bordeaux winery owner's analysis of the top critics a few years ago, which emphasised Neal's intellectual honesty, and I've never heard or read anything to the contrary. So I don't see him as being dishonest with his notes and scores.

Galloni built Vinous using his Italian fanbase. I know nothing about Italian wines so I don't know if there was anything going on. A week ago, I would never even countenanced the idea of any cosying up - now, who knows?

However, my gut feeling is that Antonio Galloni is not a dishonest person, merely a businessman rather than a writer or critic, who, perhaps influenced by his business partners, made a decision that he felt was in the interests of his brand. I think that for him, whether writing about EP, verticals, or increasing Vinous' coverage of other regions, it's just about the bottom line - does that increase the number of subscribers, does that lead to new opportunities to build the brand further in the future?

I don't think for a second that he had any idea of the impact his decision would have, simply because he doesn't have a writer's DNA. His ethics are those of an investment banker - which does not mean that the latter are all dishonest: he saw an opportunity to further monetise Vinous' content, so he took it.

What he failed to understand is that his decision would undermine all his credibility as an independent writer - and all the credibility of those working for him. This is the problem.

You cannot be Rupert Murdoch and one of the journalists of The Times (London) at the same time. The former takes decisions that the latter would never even consider - that doesn't mean that Murdoch is wrong to do so, but who in their right mind would take seriously an article about wine written by Murdoch?! Murdoch has always been careful to ensure that his writers are seen to be independent so perhaps in the future, the best way out would be for AG to stop writing altogether, thereby protecting his writers and his brand.

As to Galloni's claims to "care" about every subscriber - in his own way, I'm sure he does, but he clearly has no idea of what critic-subscriber trust actually means, nor what it implies when you take advantage of it, because fundamentally, he's simply not a critic at all.

User avatar
Julian Marshall
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1270
Joined: August 12th, 2011, 4:44 am
Location: Next to Auvers sur Oise, France
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#486 Post by Julian Marshall »

Arv R wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 9:02 pm
I wonder if Rimmerman is reading this thread....I got an email this afternoon from Garagiste hawking back vintage Rauzan Gassies quoting "Julian Marshall" reviews!

I hope Julian is getting rendered unto Caesar what is his due!!! (I'd ask for known sneak peaks at some of the mystery wines, 48 hours before the rest of the world gets the offer....)
I'm appalled! My secret is out!

I didn't want to tell anyone, but I'm starting my own website - it's called "The Wine Avocado", which will "specialize" in all those fresh, green-tinted wines I like, but which will also feature all those I hate. All my crappy notes will be available, with a special preview of notes on certain wines 48 hours before I open them - because my "taste" includes the gift of second sight - I have an exclusive contract with the top consultants who tell me in advance how much "luxury oak" they have used, how high the "natural alcohol" is and what the score would have been on the Parker-meter, so that I don't even need to taste them.

Of course, 48 hour previews will come at a cost - they will only be available to a new category of subscriber, which I am calling "Megamug" (careful it's a TM), those who promise to praise all my other rubbish and to tell all their friends what a wonderful person I am with wonderful taste, a person of incredible wit and honesty.

Tvrtko C.
Posts: 1229
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 9:30 am
Location: Brussels, Europe
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#487 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 4th, 2021, 2:05 am
Arv R wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 9:02 pm
I wonder if Rimmerman is reading this thread....I got an email this afternoon from Garagiste hawking back vintage Rauzan Gassies quoting "Julian Marshall" reviews!

I hope Julian is getting rendered unto Caesar what is his due!!! (I'd ask for known sneak peaks at some of the mystery wines, 48 hours before the rest of the world gets the offer....)
I'm appalled! My secret is out!

I didn't want to tell anyone, but I'm starting my own website - it's called "The Wine Avocado", which will "specialize" in all those fresh, green-tinted wines I like, but which will also feature all those I hate. All my crappy notes will be available, with a special preview of notes on certain wines 48 hours before I open them - because my "taste" includes the gift of second sight - I have an exclusive contract with the top consultants who tell me in advance how much "luxury oak" they have used, how high the "natural alcohol" is and what the score would have been on the Parker-meter, so that I don't even need to taste them.

Of course, 48 hour previews will come at a cost - they will only be available to a new category of subscriber, which I am calling "Megamug" (careful it's a TM), those who promise to praise all my other rubbish and to tell all their friends what a wonderful person I am with wonderful taste, a person of incredible wit and honesty.
Where's the dotted line, Sir? [wow.gif]
C=Cernos

User avatar
Julian Marshall
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1270
Joined: August 12th, 2011, 4:44 am
Location: Next to Auvers sur Oise, France
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#488 Post by Julian Marshall »

Tvrtko, I hereby declare that you and Arv are my two first Megamugs, along with Robert A (he hasn't asked, but I know he's a personal friend and fan of many consultants).

As such, you all qualify for my special Welcome gift - a full EP report of all Michel Rolland-advised Bordeaux 2020s, two weeks before any critic has anointed them with the usual garlands. Michel was kind enough to tell me exactly how they all taste (voluptuous yet streamlined black forest gateau, sprinkled with barrel-aged kirsch, vertically nuanced, a sense of breeding with a Mockney accent, like Guy Ritchie on steroids) so I didn't need to taste them myself.

More importantly, you will be able, as Megamugs, to buy all of these superb wines at the original prices, before I reveal my report to the hoi-polloi.

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 25483
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 265 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#489 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 4th, 2021, 5:31 am Tvrtko, I hereby declare that you and Arv are my two first Megamugs, along with Robert A (he hasn't asked, but I know he's a personal friend and fan of many consultants).

As such, you all qualify for my special Welcome gift - a full EP report of all Michel Rolland-advised Bordeaux 2020s, two weeks before any critic has anointed them with the usual garlands. Michel was kind enough to tell me exactly how they all taste (voluptuous yet streamlined black forest gateau, sprinkled with barrel-aged kirsch, vertically nuanced, a sense of breeding with a Mockney accent, like Guy Ritchie on steroids) so I didn't need to taste them myself.

More importantly, you will be able, as Megamugs, to buy all of these superb wines at the original prices, before I reveal my report to the hoi-polloi.
Uncle Rollo and I are tight. Notice how he and Bouard eventually land at some of my favorite Chateau, turning them into lovely delicious chili ate milkshaeggs (lol, Siri again - “chocolate milkshake”) for the proverbial American palate!

PS. Milkshaeggs could become my new term. Have to see how to weave it into a Tn.
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)


@lfert

Tvrtko C.
Posts: 1229
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 9:30 am
Location: Brussels, Europe
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#490 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 4th, 2021, 5:31 am (voluptuous yet streamlined black forest gateau, sprinkled with barrel-aged kirsch, vertically nuanced, a sense of breeding with a Mockney accent, like Guy Ritchie on steroids) so I didn't need to taste them myself.
Epic. That's all there is to it. [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif]
C=Cernos

Tvrtko C.
Posts: 1229
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 9:30 am
Location: Brussels, Europe
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#491 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 4th, 2021, 5:31 am More importantly, you will be able, as Megamugs, to buy all of these superb wines at the original prices, before I reveal my report to the hoi-polloi.
Thank you, Julian, and thank you also for taking the time to contribute here. I never for a second doubted you would prove to be worth your weight in gold flirtysmile
C=Cernos

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik
Posts: 187
Joined: October 7th, 2014, 10:40 am
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#492 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik »

Jamie Goode just posted on the subject (interesting read); https://wineanorak.com/2021/05/04/the-w ... s-preview/
ITB. www.brixwine.se

Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8156
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 178 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#493 Post by Mark Golodetz »

We discussed it at yesterday’s Zoom, and the point was made that there are additional but hidden benefits to Vinous. You pay $24k to Vinous, you buy the wines, you then promote the Vinous reviews.

I really don’t like it, but it is a clever move.
ITB

User avatar
Julian Marshall
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1270
Joined: August 12th, 2011, 4:44 am
Location: Next to Auvers sur Oise, France
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#494 Post by Julian Marshall »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 4th, 2021, 5:57 am
Uncle Rollo and I are tight. Notice how he and Bouard eventually land at some of my favorite Chateau, turning them into lovely delicious chili ate milkshaeggs (lol, Siri again - “chocolate milkshake”) for the proverbial American palate!

PS. Milkshaeggs could become my new term. Have to see how to weave it into a Tn.
Excellent term that, you had better trademark milkshaeggs right away!
Tvrtko C. wrote: May 4th, 2021, 6:16 am Thank you, Julian, and thank you also for taking the time to contribute here. I never for a second doubted you would prove to be worth your weight in gold flirtysmile
Thanks Tvrtko - I shall remember you in my will - I hereby bequeath you my collection of Francis Urquhart quotes - here's another (adapted!):

“EP tastings with wine critics can be such fun. They resemble a nest of cuckoos. I sit back and enjoy watching everyone trying to push the others out.”
Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 4th, 2021, 6:53 am Jamie Goode just posted on the subject (interesting read); https://wineanorak.com/2021/05/04/the-w ... s-preview/
Good article - poor LPB, nobody ever spells her name right. I bet she's kicking herself not to have thought of Preview first.

User avatar
brigcampbell
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 18472
Joined: April 7th, 2010, 12:17 pm
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 174 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#495 Post by brigcampbell »

Mark Golodetz wrote: May 4th, 2021, 8:11 am We discussed it at yesterday’s Zoom, and the point was made that there are additional but hidden benefits to Vinous. You pay $24k to Vinous, you buy the wines, you then promote the Vinous reviews.

I really don’t like it, but it is a clever move.
You'll know it's working when Vinous starts reviewing $15 grocery store wines.
Don't hate me just because I'm rich and drive a Ferrari. I could buy this wine board. - Cash Steele

User avatar
Arv R
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4653
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 3:53 pm
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#496 Post by Arv R »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 4th, 2021, 5:31 am Tvrtko, I hereby declare that you and Arv are my two first Megamugs, along with Robert A (he hasn't asked, but I know he's a personal friend and fan of many consultants).

As such, you all qualify for my special Welcome gift - a full EP report of all Michel Rolland-advised Bordeaux 2020s, two weeks before any critic has anointed them with the usual garlands. Michel was kind enough to tell me exactly how they all taste (voluptuous yet streamlined black forest gateau, sprinkled with barrel-aged kirsch, vertically nuanced, a sense of breeding with a Mockney accent, like Guy Ritchie on steroids) so I didn't need to taste them myself.

More importantly, you will be able, as Megamugs, to buy all of these superb wines at the original prices, before I reveal my report to the hoi-polloi.
Please note that I've dispensed a special canonization to Rolland, so the correct usage of his name needs to be St. Michel.

This was based off the proven miracle of the 1990 Bon Pasteur
R_@_0

User avatar
Al Osterheld
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8127
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#497 Post by Al Osterheld »

Andy Sc wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 10:35 pm
Al Osterheld wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:55 am But, I really don't understand the claims that it's unethical or immoral.
You're building up your side with claims that you're serving the customer and only the customer. You build a strong following. Because of that you influence market prices. Through the backdoor and without announcing it, you're trying to capitalize on that customer following by selling price moving insider information to the trade. The trade accepts the high 24k price a year because it allows them to charge customers a multiple of that 24k a year more. In the end the customer who made the plattform strong pays not only the 24k the trade paid to consumers but a multiple of that. You as Galloni understand economics and business, so you know you're selling out your customers but try to deny that.

Not a good, ethical business practice in my book.
I've never noticed anything from Galloni that he's serving *consumers* and only them.

Each subscriber can decide whether it still adds value to them. Personally, I'm not at all sure he will get many $24k per year subscribers, or that he made the best decision for his business. But, it's his choice and I certainly disagree that it's something that should be called unethical or immoral.

-Al

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 19905
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside
Has thanked: 322 times
Been thanked: 174 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#498 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

M.Kaplan wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 11:10 am
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
Some things are different than others; your comparison isn't applicable. A better comparison, although no means perfect, would be if Consumer Reports established financial ties to automobile and appliance manufactures and sales outlets without informing their existing membership that they were accepting payments from those whose products they review on behalf of consumers. The media companies that you string together above do not proclaim financial independence in their mission statements and puffery to subscribers, as does Vinous:

Independence
From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.
Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade[1]. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003. Occasionally we will share a working lunch or dinner with a winemaker if doing so helps save time during the day, something that can be an issue in places where wineries are separated by considerable distance. In those rare instances we insist on absolute simplicity.


[1] Marzia’s uncle owns a vineyard in Friuli that I review because it is a benchmark estate for the region. Full disclosure is always attached to reviews. Readers can decide for themselves if those reviews are helpful or not.
Al, I might be with you, but for what Mark Kaplan pulled from the Vinous site, as quoted above. After reading that, does your position change at all?
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT: grafstrb

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik
Posts: 187
Joined: October 7th, 2014, 10:40 am
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#499 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik »

Jancis Robinson MW has commented the issue as well; "We have offered both regular wine lovers and professionals a special membership which includes a 48-hour preview of everything scheduled (not just scores and tasting notes) almost forever. But it’s certainly a bargain compared to the deal Galloni recently offered to trade only at $2,400 a year, including knowing what the (ever-changing apparently) Vinous publishing schedule is.

Our Gold membership for consumers is obviously a snip at £125 a year and Professional membership is £180 a year for one user, much less per person depending on how many people in the company join. This has been publicised on our Join/membership page for years rather than being offered to the trade privately. Seems to have turned into something of an own goal for Vinous."

…and in my opinion, she doesn't move bottles/prices the way Galloni does, due to her vague ratings. Everything, and I mean everything, is 15-18 points, so few really care. No wine is truly bad, and no wine is really, really good. I might just be me, but I've nerver cared for her ratings. For all other things; a class act.

That said, I didn't know that the above was an option.
ITB. www.brixwine.se

User avatar
Arv R
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4653
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 3:53 pm
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#500 Post by Arv R »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 4th, 2021, 2:30 pm Jancis Robinson MW has commented the issue as well; "We have offered both regular wine lovers and professionals a special membership which includes a 48-hour preview of everything scheduled (not just scores and tasting notes) almost forever. But it’s certainly a bargain compared to the deal Galloni recently offered to trade only at $2,400 a year, including knowing what the (ever-changing apparently) Vinous publishing schedule is.

Our Gold membership for consumers is obviously a snip at £125 a year and Professional membership is £180 a year for one user, much less per person depending on how many people in the company join. This has been publicised on our Join/membership page for years rather than being offered to the trade privately. Seems to have turned into something of an own goal for Vinous."

…and in my opinion, she doesn't move bottles/prices the way Galloni does, due to her vague ratings. Everything, and I mean everything, is 15-18 points, so few really care. No wine is truly bad, and no wine is really, really good. I might just be me, but I've nerver cared for her ratings. For all other things; a class act.

That said, I didn't know that the above was an option.
It seems unkind to say this, but if I see a retailer quoting Jancis to push some swill, the merchant are definitely scraping the bottom of the review barrel as there must not be any other good comments, or its a real unknown estate. But she's a fine writer, and I enjoy her books!
R_@_0

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”