Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

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John Danza
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#501 Post by John Danza »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 4th, 2021, 2:30 pm Jancis Robinson MW has commented the issue as well; "We have offered both regular wine lovers and professionals a special membership which includes a 48-hour preview of everything scheduled (not just scores and tasting notes) almost forever. But it’s certainly a bargain compared to the deal Galloni recently offered to trade only at $2,400 a year, including knowing what the (ever-changing apparently) Vinous publishing schedule is.

Our Gold membership for consumers is obviously a snip at £125 a year and Professional membership is £180 a year for one user, much less per person depending on how many people in the company join. This has been publicised on our Join/membership page for years rather than being offered to the trade privately. Seems to have turned into something of an own goal for Vinous."

…and in my opinion, she doesn't move bottles/prices the way Galloni does, due to her vague ratings. Everything, and I mean everything, is 15-18 points, so few really care. No wine is truly bad, and no wine is really, really good. I might just be me, but I've nerver cared for her ratings. For all other things; a class act.

That said, I didn't know that the above was an option.
I agree that I've never cared for her ratings. And at least in the Midwest US, I can't think of any store I've ever walked into that's had a hang tag spouting JR's rating on the wine. However, I see more Vinous than I do TWA hang tags. So Vinous is definitely viewed by folks ITB as moving product.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#502 Post by Lorenzo F »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 4th, 2021, 2:30 pm Jancis Robinson MW has commented the issue as well; "We have offered both regular wine lovers and professionals a special membership which includes a 48-hour preview of everything scheduled (not just scores and tasting notes) almost forever. But it’s certainly a bargain compared to the deal Galloni recently offered to trade only at $2,400 a year, including knowing what the (ever-changing apparently) Vinous publishing schedule is.

Our Gold membership for consumers is obviously a snip at £125 a year and Professional membership is £180 a year for one user, much less per person depending on how many people in the company join. This has been publicised on our Join/membership page for years rather than being offered to the trade privately. Seems to have turned into something of an own goal for Vinous."

…and in my opinion, she doesn't move bottles/prices the way Galloni does, due to her vague ratings. Everything, and I mean everything, is 15-18 points, so few really care. No wine is truly bad, and no wine is really, really good. I might just be me, but I've nerver cared for her ratings. For all other things; a class act.

That said, I didn't know that the above was an option.
Yet is she a less knowledgeable critic than AG or the Parker's crew ? But she doesn't move prices so nodoby cares . Would you pay 2000 USD to find out in advance that she gave 15-18 to a wine ? Errrm no ! It's just business and when it's just business you know whats the only thing that matters .
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#503 Post by Al Osterheld »

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: May 4th, 2021, 12:00 pm
M.Kaplan wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 11:10 am
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
Some things are different than others; your comparison isn't applicable. A better comparison, although no means perfect, would be if Consumer Reports established financial ties to automobile and appliance manufactures and sales outlets without informing their existing membership that they were accepting payments from those whose products they review on behalf of consumers. The media companies that you string together above do not proclaim financial independence in their mission statements and puffery to subscribers, as does Vinous:

Independence
From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.
Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade[1]. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003. Occasionally we will share a working lunch or dinner with a winemaker if doing so helps save time during the day, something that can be an issue in places where wineries are separated by considerable distance. In those rare instances we insist on absolute simplicity.


[1] Marzia’s uncle owns a vineyard in Friuli that I review because it is a benchmark estate for the region. Full disclosure is always attached to reviews. Readers can decide for themselves if those reviews are helpful or not.
Al, I might be with you, but for what Mark Kaplan pulled from the Vinous site, as quoted above. After reading that, does your position change at all?
No, I had already read that text before Mark posted it.

-Al

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#504 Post by Charlie Carnes »

Julian Marshall wrote: May 4th, 2021, 1:40 am he's simply not a critic at all.

Right on right on, this is the nutshell of both threads floating around right now.


Back to what I said and your reply. I agree, I don't think he did this on purpose, certainly not originally. BUT, everything that goes up must come down. His actions have the same effect wether on purpose or not. Once he got commercialized, and his scores for wines that were not really in his sandbox were through the roof, everything changed to the point where he offers "preview" scoring! Basically we're at the point in History of the World, where ..."It's good to be the king!"
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#505 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Charlie Carnes wrote: May 4th, 2021, 5:45 pm
Julian Marshall wrote: May 4th, 2021, 1:40 am he's simply not a critic at all.

Right on right on, this is the nutshell of both threads floating around right now.


Back to what I said and your reply. I agree, I don't think he did this on purpose, certainly not originally. BUT, everything that goes up must come down. His actions have the same effect wether on purpose or not. Once he got commercialized, and his scores for wines that were not really in his sandbox were through the roof, everything changed to the point where he offers "preview" scoring! Basically we're at the point in History of the World, where ..."It's good to be the king!"
This why in larger publications, and Vinous is now one, the publisher is separated from the editor and the writers.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#506 Post by Jim Brennan »

I think it's pretty simple, AG simply needs to remove / change his statement that there's no entanglement with the trade. Regardless of the fact that some people here are trying to word parse along the lines of "the meaning of is" (as a defense of AG), common sense says that the subscription for the trade smells bad, and that stink gets worse considering "custom bespoke options."

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#507 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik »

Interesting to see which partners they've chosen; https://vinous.com/events/vinous-learn- ... oni-martin
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#508 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 5th, 2021, 1:41 pm Interesting to see which partners they've chosen; https://vinous.com/events/vinous-learn- ... oni-martin
What’s the price tag on this?
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#509 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 5th, 2021, 1:59 pm
Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 5th, 2021, 1:41 pm Interesting to see which partners they've chosen; https://vinous.com/events/vinous-learn- ... oni-martin
What’s the price tag on this?
Not official yet. Care to take a guess? Good wines chosen.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#510 Post by brigcampbell »

They're gonna need to update the "Core Values" page on the website

https://vinous.com/statics/approach
Independence

From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.

Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade[1]. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003. Occasionally we will share a working lunch or dinner with a winemaker if doing so helps save time during the day, something that can be an issue in places where wineries are separated by considerable distance. In those rare instances we insist on absolute simplicity.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#511 Post by HenryB »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 5th, 2021, 2:09 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 5th, 2021, 1:59 pm
Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 5th, 2021, 1:41 pm Interesting to see which partners they've chosen; https://vinous.com/events/vinous-learn- ... oni-martin
What’s the price tag on this?
Not official yet. Care to take a guess? Good wines chosen.
cant be cheap with things like cheval blanc in there. Including some margin, I'd guess £150 a bottle average, x24 bottles = £3600? if they're shipping 75cl bottles.

I'm probably over-estimating the average cost there if you consider the wholesale price, but single bottles command a premium and you need to factor tax, etc in.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#512 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 5th, 2021, 2:09 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 5th, 2021, 1:59 pm
Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 5th, 2021, 1:41 pm Interesting to see which partners they've chosen; https://vinous.com/events/vinous-learn- ... oni-martin
What’s the price tag on this?
Not official yet. Care to take a guess? Good wines chosen.
Definitely a killer lineup and could be a cool event
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#513 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

brigcampbell wrote: May 5th, 2021, 2:10 pm They're gonna need to update the "Core Values" page on the website

https://vinous.com/statics/approach
Independence

From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.

Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade[1]. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003. Occasionally we will share a working lunch or dinner with a winemaker if doing so helps save time during the day, something that can be an issue in places where wineries are separated by considerable distance. In those rare instances we insist on absolute simplicity.
Somehow, this apparently does **NOT** amount to Galloni saying that he's serving *consumers* and only them, so no need for him to change anything. pepsi
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#514 Post by Al Osterheld »

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: May 5th, 2021, 5:28 pm
brigcampbell wrote: May 5th, 2021, 2:10 pm They're gonna need to update the "Core Values" page on the website

https://vinous.com/statics/approach
Independence

From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.

Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade[1]. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003. Occasionally we will share a working lunch or dinner with a winemaker if doing so helps save time during the day, something that can be an issue in places where wineries are separated by considerable distance. In those rare instances we insist on absolute simplicity.
Somehow, this apparently does **NOT** amount to Galloni saying that he's serving *consumers* and only them, so no need for him to change anything. pepsi
If you look on the page, it states "Vinous is a small business created for our subscribers".

FWIW, I agree with Jamie Goode's take that was linked above.

-Al

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#515 Post by Clayton Wai-Poi »

Mason H wrote: April 28th, 2021, 6:48 am I canceled my subscription today and they issued me a prorated refund of my remaining 8 months. Though I found Neil's content valuable, I found Galloni's to be less and less valuable. For example, most of the Napa reviews had no producer commentary, which is the portion of the reviews that intertest me the most. It's probably a function of Galloni trying to run a business and be a wine writer at the same time. Based on this decision, maybe he should stick to the writing!
How do you get a prorated refund? I cancelled my auto renew but would like to pursue the refund as well.

Honestly the preview thing doesn’t affect me, but AGs responses don’t gel well with me and I’d rather be out completely.

Is it just a case of sending an email?

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#516 Post by Jim Brennan »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 5th, 2021, 6:29 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: May 5th, 2021, 5:28 pm
brigcampbell wrote: May 5th, 2021, 2:10 pm They're gonna need to update the "Core Values" page on the website

https://vinous.com/statics/approach

Somehow, this apparently does **NOT** amount to Galloni saying that he's serving *consumers* and only them, so no need for him to change anything. pepsi
If you look on the page, it states "Vinous is a small business created for our subscribers".

FWIW, I agree with Jamie Goode's take that was linked above.

-Al
No shit, it was created for his subscribers? Whew. False alarm. Maybe time will see if he stands the test of time...

Or maybe he's a small business who wants to become a bigger business (who doesn't, right?!), and some of those "subscribers" with a $24K subscription will be more equal than others?

Anyways... from reading it I came up with the crazy notion that the things at the top, and particularly the specificity of #2 (which is in pretty stark contrast to the generalities of the others) made it pretty fundamental. But that would mean that Independence from the Trade was a pretty important founding notion, but clearly it's not... So perhaps he's gotten over that part or his investors told him to get over it? Wait, that means... revising it.

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#517 Post by Al Osterheld »

Parker frequently and prominently claimed to be an advocate for the consumer. AFAIK, Galloni never has.

The page about his values that was quoted is linked below. Brian implied that it states he is serving consumers and only them, I don't think it does.
https://vinous.com/statics/approach

I have no quarrel with people who are unhappy about the change, but I don't think it's correct to call it unethical or immoral. Again, here is a link to Jamie Goode's comment on the change, which is similar to mine.

https://wineanorak.com/2021/05/04/the-w ... s-preview/

-Al

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#518 Post by Robert Grenley »

If I offered to pay $48,000 per year, could I get the scores 96 hours before everyone else?
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#519 Post by Jim Brennan »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 5th, 2021, 9:29 pm Parker frequently and prominently claimed to be an advocate for the consumer. AFAIK, Galloni never has.

The page about his values that was quoted is linked below. Brian implied that it states he is serving consumers and only them, I don't think it does.
https://vinous.com/statics/approach

I have no quarrel with people who are unhappy about the change, but I don't think it's correct to call it unethical or immoral. Again, here is a link to Jamie Goode's comment on the change, which is similar to mine.

https://wineanorak.com/2021/05/04/the-w ... s-preview/

-Al
Your caveats aside, his language for #2 is very reminiscent of Parker's schtick. Here's what the modern day TWA website says about the genesis of TWA:
In the early 1970s, when Parker was conceiving of writing his own wine guide, he was taken with the work of Ralph Nader, an American political activist who sought to "out" corporate and political corruption by challenging compromised propaganda. Parker recognized that much of what was then being written about wine was compromised by the financial agendas of many of the famous wine writers of the day. He dreamt of a publication that could be free of financial ties to wineries and merchants, a guide that would produce wholly unbiased views on wines and that served only the interests of wine consumers. This would be a magazine that would be funded purely by subscribers-the people that buy, read and use it.
Galloni certainly never explicitly used the term consumer advocate, but given the existence of RP and TWA, I'm not sure that's surprising. And regardless of avoiding that specific phrase/term, it sure seems to me that #2 stands out like a sore thumb for its directness and specificity. Meanwhile the rest of his message is largely aimed at creating a personal style of message that would resonate with consumers, and get them to sign on.
Update the mission statement, I'd say, because to me it seems pretty obvious that his mission has evolved quite significantly.

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#520 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

Al,

My issue is with this statement by Vinous:
"Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade."

That is, obviously, false.

I don't think it's immoral or unethical for Vinous to do what its doing, even though I do agree with those who've basically said Vinous is pulling the rug out from beneath its "regular" subscribers; rather, I think it's immoral and unethical to lie. It is an outright falsehood to say that "Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade."
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#521 Post by HenryB »

Robert Grenley wrote: May 5th, 2021, 10:16 pm If I offered to pay $48,000 per year, could I get the scores 96 hours before everyone else?
for $4k a month, you can tell them what stock you have and they'll add 2 points to whatever you have the most of :)

Sarcasm, before anyone threatens to sue me.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#522 Post by Chris Crutchfield »

HenryB wrote: May 5th, 2021, 11:22 pm
Robert Grenley wrote: May 5th, 2021, 10:16 pm If I offered to pay $48,000 per year, could I get the scores 96 hours before everyone else?
for $4k a month, you can tell them what stock you have and they'll add 2 points to whatever you have the most of :)

Sarcasm, before anyone threatens to sue me.
Must be one of those custom bespoke options

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#523 Post by Al Osterheld »

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: May 5th, 2021, 11:04 pm Al,

My issue is with this statement by Vinous:
"Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade."

That is, obviously, false.

I don't think it's immoral or unethical for Vinous to do what its doing, even though I do agree with those who've basically said Vinous is pulling the rug out from beneath its "regular" subscribers; rather, I think it's immoral and unethical to lie. It is an outright falsehood to say that "Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade."
I don't think the statement is patently true or false and don't think Galloni considers it false. He already had trade subscribers and I'm sure I could purchase a Preview subscription if I wanted. I also find it interesting that people who aren't subscribers and/or never saw that page are now so insistent about what it must state. I suspect the subscribers who care are now aware of the change and can act accordingly.

I do agree that he wasn't transparent when launching the Preview option.

-Al

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#524 Post by Randy C »

This exhausting thread has gotten me to the point where I have just now upgraded my classic subscription to a premium subscription. Showing my support for all the great Vinous content. I'm amazed at how outraged folks have gotten over this (although maybe I shouldn't be surprised these days I guess).
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#525 Post by B Stewart »

Chris Crutchfield wrote: May 5th, 2021, 11:25 pm
HenryB wrote: May 5th, 2021, 11:22 pm
Robert Grenley wrote: May 5th, 2021, 10:16 pm If I offered to pay $48,000 per year, could I get the scores 96 hours before everyone else?
for $4k a month, you can tell them what stock you have and they'll add 2 points to whatever you have the most of :)

Sarcasm, before anyone threatens to sue me.
Must be one of those custom bespoke options
And, "The ability to submit your wines for review outside the normal time frames established by the Editorial Calendar."

"Hello Vinous? I've got 10,000 cases of Argentine Malbec taking up warehouse space. Can I submit a bottle for review?"

"What date would you like to schedule that for?"

"Today. I need it in the new issue."

"That's impossible. The deadline was last week. The new issue goes live tonight. There's nothing we can do."

"I'm a 4K."

"Mr Galloni will be right over."

[cheers.gif]
B e n

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#526 Post by John Morris »

FYI, Vinous is branching out into remote tasting and, perhaps, sales. No price that I've seen, but they're basically selling a package of two cases of current release Bordeaux together with online commentary. That's a lot of wine for a tasting!

The most interesting thing will be to see what the relationship will be with the "retail partners." Under New York law, they probably have to deliver the wine via a retailer to participants in the state. But are the retailers just handling fulfillment, or will participants be encouraged to buy from those retailers?
Today we are excited to announce the latest installment of Vinous Learn, our program of in-depth, interactive tastings that bring wine education to your home. Join Antonio Galloni and Neal Martin as they guide you through 24 of their favorite 2018 Bordeaux in four seminars that will take a deep dive into terroir, winemaking, vintages and everything else you want to know.

Tasting kits will be made available to Vinous Premium subscribers early next week through our retail partners in New York and London. Remaining kits will be available to Vinous Classic subscribers shortly thereafter. Each kit contains one bottle of each of the 24 wines in the seminar, plus a Coravin Pivot, which will be shipped separately.

The Bordeaux 2018 Vinous Learn series is the perfect chance to get together with friends or family to taste some of the world's most pedigreed wines. Seminars will be live and also recorded for future viewing.


The Schedule:

Class 1 – June 5 at 10am California, 1pm New York, 6pm London
Topic – The Northern Médoc
SAINT ESTÈPHE: Calon Ségur, Cos d’Estournel, Montrose
PAUILLAC: Pichon-Baron, Pichon-Comtesse, Pontet-Canet

Class 2 – June 12 at 10am California, 1pm New York, 6pm London
Topic – The Southern Médoc
SAINT JULIEN: Léoville Barton, Léoville Poyferré, Saint Pierre
MARGAUX: Brane-Cantenac, Malescot Saint Exupéry, Rauzan Ségla

Class 3 – June 19 at 10am California, 1pm New York, 6pm London
Topic – Pomerol & Saint Émilion
POMEROL: La Conseillante, Trotanoy, Vieux Château Certan
SAINT ÉMILION: Canon, Cheval Blanc, Figeac

Class 4 – June 26 at 10am California, 1pm New York, 6pm London
Topic – Under the Radar Gems & Pessac-Léognan
UNDER THE RADAR GEMS: Bourgneuf, Feytit Clinet, Le Prieuré
PESSAC-LÉOGNAN: Domaine de Chevalier, Les Carmes Haut Brion, Smith Haut-Lafitte

Please watch your email next week for all the details.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#527 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Randy C wrote: May 6th, 2021, 12:08 pm This exhausting thread has gotten me to the point where I have just now upgraded my classic subscription to a premium subscription. Showing my support for all the great Vinous content. I'm amazed at how outraged folks have gotten over this (although maybe I shouldn't be surprised these days I guess).
I’d be far more impressed if you went custom bespoke instead!

;)
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#528 Post by Jim Brennan »

I'm sure Galloni doesn't consider it patently false.. the ability of people to rationalize sketchy practices in their own favor is amazing. What they're doing now is a business decision but it's also clearly breaking trust with the consumers who subscribed in part due to his positioning on point #2 of Vinous' values. Galloni and the staff of Vinous wasn't transparent most likely because they know they broke trust with consumers and how they previously positioned themselves. It'll be interesting to see if this slide towards opaqueness and sketchy practices is the tip of the iceberg for Vinous.

Disappointed to see the trope inserted about people who aren't subscribers shouldn't care... I can see all kinds of ways that this could adversely affect consumers of higher end wines. I think some of you just lack imagination... you need look no further to how AI has affected social media to get a sense of the possibilities of applying technology here.

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#529 Post by Al Osterheld »

I think some of you just lack imagination... you need look no further to how AI has affected social media to get a sense of the possibilities of applying technology here.
For a moment, I thought you wrote "Al".

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#530 Post by Al Osterheld »

BTW, I didn't write that non-subscribers (and/or people who had never seen the page) shouldn't care, obviously some do. But, I think most of them would continue to care even if that text were modified. You may be an exception but it's not the text that's the main issue for most of them.

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#531 Post by M.Kaplan »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 6th, 2021, 2:11 pm BTW, I didn't write that non-subscribers (and/or people who had never seen the page) shouldn't care, obviously some do. But, I think most of them would continue to care even if that text were modified. You may be an exception but it's not the text that's the main issue for most of them.

-Al
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. In my opinion, transparency about the new industry oriented business arrangements, revising the statement of Core Values, and adherence to a published policy separating the publishing, editorial, reporting, advertising, advertorial, and events functions solves many of the issues, except for questions about loyalty to the consumer subscriber base on whose payments Vinous built its business. As we saw with Parker, loyalty from/to Vinous' subscribers appears to be a one-way street. And as we've now seen with Vinuos, transparency seems to be problematic, at best.

This all reminds me of a well-known Southern California politician who started as a grass-roots consumer/voter advocate who rose to prominence and City and County elected office raising campaign money from small dollar donors then, after achieving success, started hunting big dollar donors. When I asked his campaign manager about the change, he replied, "________ learned that it is much easier to raise ten $1,000 donations than it is to raise 1,000 ten dollar donations." When pressed whether this change was consistent with the politician's core values/mission statement, the campaign manager smiled and shrugged.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#532 Post by Al Osterheld »

I agree he failed to be transparent from the start. The new subscription option is still not listed on the sign-up page. But, if he had, I think approximately the same number of people would have objected and cancelled (it was leaked almost immediately and there were several threads on his internal forum). Not saying it's fine he wasn't transparent before rolling it out, he should have been. I just don't think that's the main point of contention for the people cancelling.

-Al

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#533 Post by Jim Brennan »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 6th, 2021, 2:11 pm BTW, I didn't write that non-subscribers (and/or people who had never seen the page) shouldn't care, obviously some do. But, I think most of them would continue to care even if that text were modified. You may be an exception but it's not the text that's the main issue for most of them.

-Al
Entirely fair. I still wouldn't necessarily like what he's done, but at least Vinous' positioning / values would be consistent with their actions as a business.

It's pretty simple IMO... I don't think you can claim a position of consumer advocacy (even if he never called it that, his #2 statement absolutely aligns with that and is consistent not only with what TWA established but also with statements from other consumer organizations like Consumers Reports) and then provide "special" subscriptions that provides perks for the trade.

Al, as to your comments about cancellation, sure... and why would we expect anything different? If I were a subscriber, I would be done with Vinous over this. In fact, I would want to be cancelled immediately, with them prorating the remainder of my subscription. The why is pretty simple... why would a consumer continue to support a business that used the mantle of advocacy to build its subscribership, only to abandon it when it conflicted with evolving business goals (specifically, Vinous is providing the trade with services that advantage them over consumers)?

Regardless, the point is that their "values" need to be revised because they no longer align with their business practices. It's not about mollifying angry subscribers. The subscriber base is a means to an end at this point (he's betting he can monetize much more successfully by courting the trade instead), so Galloni and his investors have cast the die, betting that they can continue to demonstrate enough market impact with consumers to entice the big money from the trade.

PS - Maybe WB needs a bot... "Al the AI" :D
wine-bar-party-event-concept-funny-robot-alcoholic-drink-creative-design-copper-head-cyborg-toy-gets-drunk-wooden-table-bottles-110393395.jpg
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#534 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik »

Antonio Galloni states; "Independence. From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003."

But Antonio does; https://www.ackerwines.com/virtual-tast ... va-italia/

[rofl.gif]
Last edited by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik on May 7th, 2021, 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ITB. www.brixwine.se

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#535 Post by Jim Brennan »

What? He's just hosting a tasting with Acker Wines, a known and reputable organization... [snort.gif]

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#536 Post by John Danza »

Jim Brennan wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:41 am What? He's just hosting a tasting with Acker Wines, a known and reputable organization... [snort.gif]
In the words of the great Larry the Cable Guy, "I don't care who you are. That's funny." [rofl.gif]
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#537 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:20 am Antonio Galloni states; "Independence. From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003."

But Antonio does; https://www.ackerwines.com/virtual-tast ... va-italia/

[rofl.gif]

#priceless

Or, I guess I should say, somethings simply do have a price.
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#538 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik »

John Danza wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:45 am
Jim Brennan wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:41 am What? He's just hosting a tasting with Acker Wines, a known and reputable organization... [snort.gif]
In the words of the great Larry the Cable Guy, "I don't care who you are. That's funny." [rofl.gif]
Will he authenticate bottles too, within shortly?
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#539 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

Parts of this conversation feel like arguing with someone who insists water is not wet. (p.s.: water is not steam is not ice, so don't even go there)
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#540 Post by John Glas »

What’s the price tag on this?
If you are drinking these wines you certainly don't need to pay an extra premium to learn about them. I wonder how much they are charging for their time on top of the wine

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#541 Post by John Glas »

Antonio Galloni states; "Independence. From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003."

But Antonio does; https://www.ackerwines.com/virtual-tast ... va-italia/

[rofl.gif]
You win! [winner.gif]

Best post so far...

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#542 Post by Al Osterheld »

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:41 pm Parts of this conversation feel like arguing with someone who insists water is not wet. (p.s.: water is not steam is not ice, so don't even go there)
Part of this conversation feels like some people don't accept there can be alternate points of view, so characterize them as incapable of seeing the "truth".

-Al

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#543 Post by GregT »

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:41 pm Parts of this conversation feel like arguing with someone who insists water is not wet. (p.s.: water is not steam is not ice, so don't even go there)
Unless it's dry. neener

Dry water has been used in everything from cosmetic foundation makeup, storing carbon dioxide, and transporting hazardous chemicals.

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pres ... ially.html

BTW, it's a majority opinion.

They did a survey at Wheaton College.

Out of the total number of students and faculty members surveyed, 48% said that water is wet.
G . T a t a r

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#544 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m »

[rofl.gif]
nice try with the "Dry water." I'm impressed with your effort. [berserker.gif]

Now, that survey ...
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#545 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:20 am Antonio Galloni states; "Independence. From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003."

But Antonio does; https://www.ackerwines.com/virtual-tast ... va-italia/

[rofl.gif]
"None other than the greatest authority on Italian wine himself" [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]

Aren't these the same guys who secretly believed Rudy K was the greatest producer of Ponsot's pre-1982 Clos Saint Denis? newhere
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#546 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Al Osterheld wrote: May 7th, 2021, 2:53 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:41 pm Parts of this conversation feel like arguing with someone who insists water is not wet. (p.s.: water is not steam is not ice, so don't even go there)
Part of this conversation feels like some people don't accept there can be alternate points of view, so characterize them as incapable of seeing the "truth".

-Al
Must be Zeno's paradox.
C=Cernos

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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#547 Post by MiranK »

Chris Crutchfield wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:25 am
R. Frankel wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:03 am For those who are quitting Vinous, I wonder if you hold your other media providers to the same standard? Not just Google/Facebook/Twitter, but what about NY Times, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Disney, HBO, etc. etc.? I guarantee you that every single one of these, and every media business with any scale at all has programs like these and many more that you wouldn’t like. The business of media is about selling you, the audience, and their product, every way they can think of. They all make choices and draw lines in different places, but Preview is Boy Scout stuff relatively.

If you don’t pay for content anywhere, then you and your data are even more for sale.

Btw, the ‘with any scale’ part is important. Yes one man shows like Burghound or MFW are probably ‘cleaner’ but places like Vinous do things that they just cannot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

This has to be one of the funniest replies this year. [truce.gif]
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Re: Antonio Galloni launches preview scoring.

#548 Post by Jim Brennan »

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:20 am Antonio Galloni states; "Independence. From the beginning of my professional writing and tasting career I have valued editorial independence above all else.Vinous has no commercial ties, direct or indirect, to any part of the wine trade. We pay all of our expenses and do not accept sponsored trips or accommodation of any kind, a policy we have maintained since the creation of Piedmont Report in 2003."

But Antonio does; https://www.ackerwines.com/virtual-tast ... va-italia/

[rofl.gif]

This is a company that Vinous is now working with: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=179918

No worries though, I only buy obscure wines that aren't on the corporate radar!

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