Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

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Richard Foxall
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#151 Post by Richard Foxall »

Palates differ, although I agree that some wine is better than others judged as wine. Still, if I heard someone say they really liked Yellow Tail, I would assume they just hadn't tasted very much good wine, but I wouldn't start in saying they had a bad palate and mine was good. And if you like modern, "high end" Napa Cab, well, that's your right. I could go on a diatribe about why that makes you an immature drinker, but why? (Seriously, I've been drinking Napa Cab for well over 40 years now, and I'd be happy to school you on how "wrong" your opinion is.)

You can say what you mean without saying it mean, as a friend once put it. I'm with Larry here. Even if you are okay with being shouted down, which isn't even what you described, that's not the measure of civility.

Also, not sure where your comment about someone calling Dunnuck a joke is going--you were responding to Larry, Mollen, YLee, and Rodgrigo, and it wasn't any of them. How does that prove your point?
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#152 Post by JDavisRoby »

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 26th, 2021, 8:25 am
Jim F wrote: April 26th, 2021, 8:13 am
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 26th, 2021, 5:40 am My general thoughts on this is the times I’ve had frog’s leap I’ve found it underwhelming, lacking the purity of fruit, focus, and texture I want from a Napa cab, and yes it’s lighter bodied. If I want something food friendly I’ll drink bdx or burg. Btw at the $50 price point something I’d far prefer are the mondavi oakville wines.

I don’t really drink all that much Napa cab, it might be 5% of the cellar, and if I’m going to drink one it’s probably not $50/btl.

Here are some I like:

Neal Family (especially SVD)
Realm
Di Costanzo
Myriad
Lewelling
William and Mary
Beta
Detert
Macdonald
Maybach
Pride
EMH
Bevan
Elyse
That is a nice list, all well made wines. It does, however, represent some pretty divergent styles and includes some very modern, very rich wines vs “restraint” as alluded to earlier in this string. Nothing wrong with that, of course.
My main requirement for Napa wines are that I’d like them to taste like Napa. I also want purity of fruit, some opulence, and good texture. I don’t at all care about restraint when it comes to Napa.
Taste like mountain Napa? Valley floor Napa? Calistoga Napa? Oakville grade Napa? Napa does have sixteen different AVA’s for a reason…because Napa has many different profiles.
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#153 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

JDavisRoby wrote: April 26th, 2021, 3:53 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 26th, 2021, 8:25 am
Jim F wrote: April 26th, 2021, 8:13 am

That is a nice list, all well made wines. It does, however, represent some pretty divergent styles and includes some very modern, very rich wines vs “restraint” as alluded to earlier in this string. Nothing wrong with that, of course.
My main requirement for Napa wines are that I’d like them to taste like Napa. I also want purity of fruit, some opulence, and good texture. I don’t at all care about restraint when it comes to Napa.
Taste like mountain Napa? Valley floor Napa? Calistoga Napa? Oakville grade Napa? Napa does have sixteen different AVA’s for a reason…because Napa has many different profiles.
Napa.

One of the reasons I like a lot of different wines. There are a lot of possible interpretations but I want the wine to have a sense of place.

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#154 Post by JDavisRoby »

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 26th, 2021, 4:08 pm
JDavisRoby wrote: April 26th, 2021, 3:53 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 26th, 2021, 8:25 am

My main requirement for Napa wines are that I’d like them to taste like Napa. I also want purity of fruit, some opulence, and good texture. I don’t at all care about restraint when it comes to Napa.
Taste like mountain Napa? Valley floor Napa? Calistoga Napa? Oakville grade Napa? Napa does have sixteen different AVA’s for a reason…because Napa has many different profiles.
Napa.

One of the reasons I like a lot of different wines. There are a lot of possible interpretations but I want the wine to have a sense of place.
I will respectfully say that to suggest the 15,000 - 20,000 acres of Cabernet farmed in Napa Valley can or should give the same sense of place regardless of the winemaking regime is crazy
Joshu@

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#155 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

JDavisRoby wrote: April 26th, 2021, 4:39 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 26th, 2021, 4:08 pm
JDavisRoby wrote: April 26th, 2021, 3:53 pm

Taste like mountain Napa? Valley floor Napa? Calistoga Napa? Oakville grade Napa? Napa does have sixteen different AVA’s for a reason…because Napa has many different profiles.
Napa.

One of the reasons I like a lot of different wines. There are a lot of possible interpretations but I want the wine to have a sense of place.
I will respectfully say that to suggest the 15,000 - 20,000 acres of Cabernet farmed in Napa Valley can or should give the same sense of place regardless of the winemaking regime is crazy
No one said the same sense of place.

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#156 Post by jnbrown »

Zachary Mancini wrote: April 25th, 2021, 10:49 pm
jnbrown wrote: April 25th, 2021, 3:24 pm
Zachary Mancini wrote: April 25th, 2021, 9:44 am

Did you have the Harriet and Harvey from MFN or just MFN?
It was just the MFN.
Got to try the Harriet and Harvey
Zach - Thanks for the tip.
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#157 Post by Zachary Mancini »

Wow a lot of this seemed to get out of hand. Do I think Jeb Dunnick rating the 18 Ontogeny 99 points crazy. Yes I think it is crazy. Anyhow no problem. Even though Napanook is 60, that is one of my favorite value wines!

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#158 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

Zachary Mancini wrote: April 26th, 2021, 5:43 pm Wow a lot of this seemed to get out of hand. Do I think Jeb Dunnick rating the 18 Ontogeny 99 points crazy. Yes I think it is crazy. Anyhow no problem. Even though Napanook is 60, that is one of my favorite value wines!
I don’t necessarily disagree that there’s score inflation among some critics but the 100 pt scale as written is inherently flawed, why is why I don’t use it.

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#159 Post by Zachary Mancini »

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 26th, 2021, 8:15 pm
Zachary Mancini wrote: April 26th, 2021, 5:43 pm Wow a lot of this seemed to get out of hand. Do I think Jeb Dunnick rating the 18 Ontogeny 99 points crazy. Yes I think it is crazy. Anyhow no problem. Even though Napanook is 60, that is one of my favorite value wines!
I don’t necessarily disagree that there’s score inflation among some critics but the 100 pt scale as written is inherently flawed, why is why I don’t use it.
Fair enough

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#160 Post by JosephW »

The 2016 Inglenook is a couple bucks higher on wine-searcher but I could not believe how damn good it is for the money.

Haven’t tried Frog’s Leap but I can’t name a better cab for less money than the 2016 Inglenook.
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#161 Post by Taylor Broussard »

B. Buzzini wrote: April 26th, 2021, 9:56 am I have a hack answer to my question...this wine checks all the boxes for me...super dry graphite, deep terroir driven mountain "cab" fruit, tight firm structure yet ready silky smooth tannins, complex and expressive right out the gate, yet can age some...winery with history and unique terroir...cool labels...can't just pick up a bottle at the grocery store or bevmo, yet is widely available at $49.95......................it is................
Click to see spoiler:
Mayacamas Vineyards Merlot
[cheers.gif]
I can’t recall precisely, but I’m quite certain we tried this at Mayacamas Downtown when we visited last fall. Had no idea it was such a fair price at retail! At $50 and not over the top, it’s actually quite a good competitor to St. Emilion and Pomerol. Thanks for the great suggestion Buzz!

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#162 Post by Merrill Lindquist »

Thanks for the mentions! I am here and reading the words. I am humbled by the company I keep in the Napa scene.

I agree that there are many styles within Napa. It is not all AVA oriented. A Calistoga AVA contains many, many styles based on terroir. Add in winemaking style, and you don't really have a "Napa style." I just did my final barrel taste of my 2019. It is very different from my 2018, yet both are recognizable as EMH Black Cat. Release coming soon.
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#163 Post by Larry Weitzner »

Neal Famly and Inglenook are particularly good Napa cabs under 50 dollars
Last edited by Larry Weitzner on April 29th, 2021, 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#164 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

I got into Neal family nearly 20 years ago and have found the wines to be consistently good and a great value.

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#165 Post by B. Buzzini »

B. Buzzini wrote: April 26th, 2021, 9:56 am I have a hack answer to my question...this wine checks all the boxes for me...super dry graphite, deep terroir driven mountain "cab" fruit, tight firm structure yet ready silky smooth tannins, complex and expressive right out the gate, yet can age some...winery with history and unique terroir...cool labels...can't just pick up a bottle at the grocery store or bevmo, yet is widely available at $49.95......................it is................
Click to see spoiler:
Mayacamas Vineyards Merlot
[cheers.gif]
I was so right here...I’ll take this guy ALL DA LONG @ $49.95!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=179794
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#166 Post by Roy Piper »

Searched WB and found this thread.

I got a quick last-minute invite today to visit Elyse with Josh Peeples, its new owner, and Doug Wilder. I had no idea the winery had changed hands three years ago and Bevan has been making the wine since 2018. I got to try the Morisoli Zin from 1993, 94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 07, 13, 16, 17, 18 and 19. Plus the 2018 Morisoli Cab, 2018 Estate Cab and 18 Tietjen (a vineyard near to Moresoli.)

The stylistic change and quality change with Bevan's arrival as winemaker is gargantuan and definitely for the better. The 2018 Morisoli Zin ($45) is excellent and the 2019 Morisoli Zin ($55) is better, still. Bevan's style seems to fit very well with Zin. I know he has been making Chase for a few years but I've not had that one yet. The Zins are bigger and oakier than anything Bedrock or Carlisle do; more like 1990s Turley in terms of ripeness. The 2019 will be a huge crowd-pleaser and massive QPR. It has blue/black fruits and potpouri in the nose. I kept coming back to it.

The 2018 Morisoli Cab ($85 - crazy price for that vineyard ) has the Rutherford Bench profile everyone associates with that vineyard and was the least Bevan-like of all the wines I tried. The 18 Tietjen ($135?) is very-ripe, in your face and much like a Bevan SVD.... and the 18 Estate, with it's eucalyptus note, was my fave of the 2018 Cabs today, and heading for something like a $95 pricepoint. The estate Cab will split people; if you like that minty-eucalyptus note then you will like it, if not, then you have two other Cabs for you to consider. All these are full-throttle Bevan-style in terms of alcohol (14.8-16.1% each) and with the full oak treatment too, with a lot of toasty Darnajou oak. So for those of you who know and love that style (you know who you are!), this is for you.

As the other posts on this thread indicate, these are real values and the new team has in just two vintages already making the best wines I've had from this producer. I would describe these wines as a continuation of the Peeples/Bevan style in their days at Ch. Boswell/Jacquelynn , but the prices are lower. The 2019 Morisoli Zin was simply out of sight and well worth the estimated $55 price when it gets released. My own personal winemaking style is different from the Bevan style but there is no denying the quality changes here and for those who like this style, definitely check this place out the next time you are in town.
Last edited by Roy Piper on May 4th, 2021, 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#167 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Roy Piper wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:05 pm All these are full-throttle Bevan-style in terms of alcohol (14.8-16.1% each) and with the full oak treatment too, with a lot of toasty Darnajou oak. So for those of you who know and love that style (you know who you are!), this is for you.

16.1% for a Cab?
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#168 Post by T. Williams »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 8:30 pm 16.1% for a Cab?
Rocket fuel!
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#169 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r »

T. Williams wrote: May 4th, 2021, 4:05 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 8:30 pm 16.1% for a Cab?
Rocket fuel!
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#170 Post by dougwilder »

ImageBERSERKERS.jpgImage
Roy Piper wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:05 pm Searched WB and found this thread.

I got a quick last-minute invite today to visit Elyse with Josh Peeples, its new owner, and Doug Wilder. I had no idea the winery had changed hands three years ago and Bevan has been making the wine since 2018. I got to try the Morisoli Zin from 1993, 94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 07, 13, 16, 17, 18 and 19. Plus the 2018 Morisoli Cab, 2018 Estate Cab and 18 Tietjen (a vineyard near to Moresoli.)

The stylistic change and quality change with Bevan's arrival as winemaker is gargantuan and definitely for the better. The 2018 Morisoli Zin ($45) is excellent and the 2019 Morisoli Zin ($55) is better, still. Bevan's style seems to fit very well with Zin. I know he has been making Chase for a few years but I've not had that one yet. The Zins are bigger and oakier than anything Bedrock or Carlisle do; more like 1990s Turley in terms of ripeness. The 2019 will be a huge crowd-pleaser and massive QPR. It has blue/black fruits and potpouri in the nose. I kept coming back to it.

The 2018 Morisoli Cab ($85 - crazy price for that vineyard ) has the Rutherford Bench profile everyone associates with that vineyard and was the least Bevan-like of all the wines I tried. The 18 Tietjen ($135?) is very-ripe, in your face and much like a Bevan SVD.... and the 18 Estate, with it's eucalyptus note, was my fave of the 2018 Cabs today, and heading for something like a $95 pricepoint. The estate Cab will split people; if you like that minty-eucalyptus note then you will like it, if not, then you have two other Cabs for you to consider. All these are full-throttle Bevan-style in terms of alcohol (14.8-16.1% each) and with the full oak treatment too, with a lot of toasty Darnajou oak. So for those of you who know and love that style (you know who you are!), this is for you.

As the other posts on this thread indicate, these are real values and the new team has in just two vintages already making the best wines I've had from this producer. I would describe these wines as a continuation of the Peeples/Bevan style in their days at Ch. Boswell/Jacquelynn , but the prices are lower. The 2019 Morisoli Zin was simply out of sight and well worth the estimated $55 price when it gets released. My own personal winemaking style is different from the Bevan style but there is no denying the quality changes here and for those who like this style, definitely check this place out the next time you are in town.
I'm glad you were able to join us on short notice, Roy. It was great to see you and share thoughts on this under the radar lineup. If anyone wants to see pictures of the day go to Instagram @purelywine
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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#171 Post by dougwilder »

dougwilder wrote: May 5th, 2021, 9:18 am ImageBERSERKERS.jpgImage
Roy Piper wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 6:05 pm Searched WB and found this thread.

I got a quick last-minute invite today to visit Elyse with Josh Peeples, its new owner, and Doug Wilder. I had no idea the winery had changed hands three years ago and Bevan has been making the wine since 2018. I got to try the Morisoli Zin from 1993, 94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 07, 13, 16, 17, 18 and 19. Plus the 2018 Morisoli Cab, 2018 Estate Cab and 18 Tietjen (a vineyard near to Moresoli.)

The stylistic change and quality change with Bevan's arrival as winemaker is gargantuan and definitely for the better. The 2018 Morisoli Zin ($45) is excellent and the 2019 Morisoli Zin ($55) is better, still. Bevan's style seems to fit very well with Zin. I know he has been making Chase for a few years but I've not had that one yet. The Zins are bigger and oakier than anything Bedrock or Carlisle do; more like 1990s Turley in terms of ripeness. The 2019 will be a huge crowd-pleaser and massive QPR. It has blue/black fruits and potpouri in the nose. I kept coming back to it.

The 2018 Morisoli Cab ($85 - crazy price for that vineyard ) has the Rutherford Bench profile everyone associates with that vineyard and was the least Bevan-like of all the wines I tried. The 18 Tietjen ($135?) is very-ripe, in your face and much like a Bevan SVD.... and the 18 Estate, with it's eucalyptus note, was my fave of the 2018 Cabs today, and heading for something like a $95 pricepoint. The estate Cab will split people; if you like that minty-eucalyptus note then you will like it, if not, then you have two other Cabs for you to consider. All these are full-throttle Bevan-style in terms of alcohol (14.8-16.1% each) and with the full oak treatment too, with a lot of toasty Darnajou oak. So for those of you who know and love that style (you know who you are!), this is for you.

As the other posts on this thread indicate, these are real values and the new team has in just two vintages already making the best wines I've had from this producer. I would describe these wines as a continuation of the Peeples/Bevan style in their days at Ch. Boswell/Jacquelynn , but the prices are lower. The 2019 Morisoli Zin was simply out of sight and well worth the estimated $55 price when it gets released. My own personal winemaking style is different from the Bevan style but there is no denying the quality changes here and for those who like this style, definitely check this place out the next time you are in town.
I'm glad you were able to join us on short notice, Roy. It was great to see you and share thoughts on this under the radar lineup. If anyone wants to see pictures of the day go to Instagram @purelywine
itb as a wine critic, publisher and photographer

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#172 Post by Jonathan_C »

Hi everyone, first timer. Really enjoy reading this thread and tried several suggestions over the last two weeks.

Is there a thread for $100, $150, $200+ wines?

Tried searching but hard to pinpoint.

Thanks!!
newhere

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Re: Best Calif Cab at $49.95...

#173 Post by jnbrown »

Jonathan_C wrote: May 9th, 2021, 11:11 pm Hi everyone, first timer. Really enjoy reading this thread and tried several suggestions over the last two weeks.

Is there a thread for $100, $150, $200+ wines?

Tried searching but hard to pinpoint.

Thanks!!
Here you go:

viewtopic.php?p=2794993
Joel

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