Saxum James Berry Vineyard ... Collectible ?

I am not as much of a Wine Spectator or Parker hater as some … and being a fan of Paso Robles I am someone still with a deep respect for the great wines of the world including both white and red Burgundy… it still irked me in a recent
Wine Spectator issue that rated at 97 points (WS points) the Saxum James Berry coming in at a price of $98 yet deemed it as highly recommended whereas 97 an 96 Burgundy’s priced at $300-800 were deemed collectible. I don’t question the credibility of the Burgundy wines; I do question why an incredible wine from Paso Robles of equal or higher score isn’t also collectible! Saxum friends… I understand that it is always great to get great scores and be featured in the press!
I don’t mean to detract from that in any way. But, I suspect that there are some great Burgundy and Rhone Winemakers/Winery Owners who would agree with me that your wines are incredible and indeed “collectible”.

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I get your frustration with the system, and Saxum is “collectible” but it’s not a trophy wine in the sense of an international auction atmosphere. There are many great wines with high scores from the Rhône that are not in their collectible category either. Yet They often put chapoutier and Guigal in the category because the name rings many a bell across country lines. It’s not a slight on the more obscure producers, just a lack of recognition in the wider community…be glad though because if Saxum ever cracks that puzzle they won’t $98 much longer.

also difficult to assess when you compare 1 winery in California to a whole region.

US syrah for the most part has been slumping in the sales department

scores have no relevance if a consumer doesn’t care for a style. Again without knowing a specific example in burgundy, Saxum doesnt have a long enough track record in aging.

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For whatever reason, critical and CT scores for red Burgundy tend to be on the low side relative to price and demand. Premium Paso producers seem to be on the high side.

I’m not expressing any judgment about either, just that if you’re trying to compare scores between the regions and figure out demand and collectability and resale, you probably need to make an adjustment.

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I don’t know how they define collectible but would guess the potential to increase in value is a large component. I just looked on winesearcher and there are a slew of James Berrys for sale going back to 2004 for at or close to current release prices.

Be thankful you love these wines and not Burgundy.

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Not understanding why you’d want something you like to be harder to get and more expensive.

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It’s just a question of demand. The fine wine market is geared towards lower alcohol, lower ripeness and less weight wines. Central Californian wines do not belong in that catgory. Same for me, while I admire the occasional young Napa or Central Cali wine for its technical abilities, the complexity and precision, good structural frame, I seldomly have the urge to drink a whole bottle or another glass of it. A less perfect and less complex Bordeaux on the otherhand might get a lower technical score but makes you craving for more. That is especially true for younger vintages. With age the field evens out and an old Dominus can be just as exciting as a great Bordeaux. With Saxum that history is missing and that’s why I still buy Dominus but not Saxum.

Even though my palate generally leans AFWE, I still collect Saxum, as well as Napa Cabs.

Michel Rolland would disagree.

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Looking at the price evolution, unfortunately, the market agrees.

Saxum, in Burgundy time, was founded last night. If that piece of land is still producing interesting wine in 200 years, the value will surely increase…

Does it? Price out 2018-2019 Burgundy against 07, 11, or 13. Rouget is >16% ABV in 19. I was shocked by the $250-300 offers of Clavelier Combe de orveau but perhaps this is the new normal.

It’s my understanding (possibly an assumption) that a Wine Spectator “Collectible” designation factors in a wine’s ability to age long term. I don’t think it’s universally agreed that Saxum will age well, they and Paso Rhones just have a shorter track record or smaller sample size here. I personally disagree with the notion, my 2010 Saxum’s are drinking better than they ever have. It might just take some time for Wine’s conventional wisdom to catch up.

And that’s before we get into Cult Cali’s and SQN. Or certain wines from the Southern Rhone.

I collect Saxum. I claim to own the largest collection of Saxum east of the Mississippi. Loren Sonkin claimed to have more, but now he claims that I have more only because I do not drink it. That is a vicious lie! I drink it. Which gets me to my point.

What does “collectable” mean? Does it mean “should I collect it because I will hold it for a few years and then sell it at a profit?” If it means that, then I apologize for intruding in a thread I do not care about. If it means, “should I buy it now because it will cost a lot more to buy it in 10 years when I want to drink it,” then that is a different question.

My oldest Saxum James Berry is the 2004 Saxum Bone Rock James Berry. I have owned it since they released it and I am comfortable with the storage. I am waiting until it is 20 years out to drink it. CT estimates the auction price is not much more than I paid for it. Was it a great investment? Damn right! I have it. I do not have to go look for it. I can open it whenever I want. I can decide to make something that will pair perfectly with it at noon and go down to the cellar and get it ready to open it that day. I do not have to agonize about what I am going to eat three months before I cook it so that it will match a wine I just bought at auction. I can donate a bottle of Saxum to a charity auction whenever I want. It makes my life much simpler and besides, I can go down to the cellar and just look around and feel good about the results of all the time I have spent (wasted?) on this hobby over the past decades.

All roads do not lead to Burgundy. Burgundy prices are what they are because production is tiny and people like to pay up for scarcity for scarcity’s sake, without regard to the pleasure that they deliver. I feel sorry for those people.

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Exhibit B: SQN

I am 69 years old and I feel sorry for you. I had a very nice 1966 Clos Fourtet last week. But I also had an outstanding brand new St. Cosme Cote Rotie and a wonderful 2004 Foley Claret. To suggest that wines in France are somehow more complex or objectively reflects either an inherent bias, and nothing more.

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There is no logic here - it has more to do with tradition IMHO than anything else. Also, unless it’s pinot or cab-based, can it really be ‘collectible’ domestically in many folks’ eyes?

Does production volume come in to play?

Cheers

And your rose is orders of magnitude better than the swill that comes out of French rose producers!

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Idk, northern rhone seems pretty collectible atm.