Grenache Curious

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Noah C
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Grenache Curious

#1 Post by Noah C »

Hi everyone,

My curiosity about Grenache has been peaked by a recent Wine School piece in the NYTimes by Eric Asimov and the discussion of Chateau Rayas in another thread I started (Recommendations for Greatness). I am not super experienced with this grape, but have had both lovely Grenache-based wines and some high extracted overblown stuff that was not my style at all. I have two specific questions regarding Grenache that I am wondering about:

1) Being that I will likely never taste Rayas, are there other wines that approach it in style and profile? I know that its subtle style and 100% Grenache composition make it unusual for CdP, but are there any wines that bear similarities? I guess I'm asking if there is a poor man's Rayas.

2) I'm intrigued by the idea of Australia's super old vine Grenache. Just seems interesting. I haven't had any, but was curious what they are like. Do they tend towards overblown monstrosities like many modern day Aussie Shiraz, or are they different in style?

Would love to know more. Thanks!
Noah
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Re: Grenache Curious

#2 Post by Otto Forsberg »

Noah C wrote: April 7th, 2021, 1:05 pm Hi everyone,

My curiosity about Grenache has been peaked by a recent Wine School piece in the NYTimes by Eric Asimov and the discussion of Chateau Rayas in another thread I started (Recommendations for Greatness). I am not super experienced with this grape, but have had both lovely Grenache-based wines and some high extracted overblown stuff that was not my style at all. I have two specific questions regarding Grenache that I am wondering about:

1) Being that I will likely never taste Rayas, are there other wines that approach it in style and profile? I know that its subtle style and 100% Grenache composition make it unusual for CdP, but are there any wines that bear similarities? I guess I'm asking if there is a poor man's Rayas.

2) I'm intrigued by the idea of Australia's super old vine Grenache. Just seems interesting. I haven't had any, but was curious what they are like. Do they tend towards overblown monstrosities like many modern day Aussie Shiraz, or are they different in style?

Would love to know more. Thanks!
Noah
Most of the time both Australian Grenache and Grenache from Southern Rhône tend to be quite big, ripe and heavy with high alcohol and low acidity. While some are successful in that style and some manage to make wines of true finesse, these places really aren't places to be on the lookout if you don't want your Grenache wines to be extracted and overblown.

On average, Spain tends to produce more successful and/or interesting takes on Grenache/Garnacha than France. Probably the greatest spots for fine, elegant Garnacha are Serra de Gredos (close to Madrid) and Terra Alta (in Catalonia). In both these regions they have very old Garnacha vines that grow in very high altitudes, helping the grapes retain good freshness and acidity, yet at the same time letting them get enough sun so the grapes enough warmth to ripen fully.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#3 Post by Craig G »

From the US, I’d recommend Birichino and A Tribute to Grace. They aren’t necessarily Rayas-like but they are very much in the red-fruited, lighter colored camp, Birichino in particular.

To get something closer to Rayas at a lower price I’d go with the other wines from the same family. Maybe roughly in order of most Rayas-like to least:

Pignan
Ch. des Tours Vacqueyras
Fonsalette (sometimes more tannic, though)
Pialade
Ch. des Tours Cotes du Rhone
Domaine des Tours Vaucluse

The grapes stray away from Rayas’ 100% Grenache but there are a lot of similarities in the style across the line. There’s a certain amount of get-what-you-pay-for, though, and at least in the US all of these are expensive for their appellations. If you try one of the lesser ones and like it, it’s worth a splurge on Pignan or Fonsalette. I would try to start with the Tours CdR as it’s not that much more expensive than the Vaucluse and probably better bang for buck. You can give it a long decant.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#4 Post by Taylor Broussard »

Noah C wrote: April 7th, 2021, 1:05 pm Hi everyone,

My curiosity about Grenache has been peaked by a recent Wine School piece in the NYTimes by Eric Asimov and the discussion of Chateau Rayas in another thread I started (Recommendations for Greatness). I am not super experienced with this grape, but have had both lovely Grenache-based wines and some high extracted overblown stuff that was not my style at all. I have two specific questions regarding Grenache that I am wondering about:

1) Being that I will likely never taste Rayas, are there other wines that approach it in style and profile? I know that its subtle style and 100% Grenache composition make it unusual for CdP, but are there any wines that bear similarities? I guess I'm asking if there is a poor man's Rayas.

2) I'm intrigued by the idea of Australia's super old vine Grenache. Just seems interesting. I haven't had any, but was curious what they are like. Do they tend towards overblown monstrosities like many modern day Aussie Shiraz, or are they different in style?

Would love to know more. Thanks!
Noah
Noah, I think there is a unique character to Grenache grown primarily in sandy soils (like Rayas). There are some wines grown in the sandy portion of the La Crau Lieu-dit of CdP that may show similar character to Rayas. Admittedly I've only had La Pialade which is a CdR that Rayas also produces (and has gone up way in price). When I think of this style of Grenache I think of fresh cherries, kirsch and sweet strawberry character with floral accents of rose and baking spice. You may also be able to find some of these elements in CdP with high portions of Cinsault as well.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#5 Post by brigcampbell »

Tercero does a very nice Grenache. Drunk a few with some age on them and even noted "baby rayas".

Larry's stuff is more structured and dark fruited than say the more widely available bright cherry / candy style which sometimes can be fun.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#6 Post by John Glas »

Most of the time both Australian Grenache and Grenache from Southern Rhône tend to be quite big, ripe and heavy with high alcohol and low acidity
Clarendon Hills would be a good example that is not big, ripe and heavy from Australia. They do exist but need to search for them. I am sure there are several quality examples that don't get exported.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#7 Post by Vince T »

Otto Forsberg wrote: April 7th, 2021, 1:42 pm
Most of the time both Australian Grenache and Grenache from Southern Rhône tend to be quite big, ripe and heavy with high alcohol and low acidity. While some are successful in that style and some manage to make wines of true finesse, these places really aren't places to be on the lookout if you don't want your Grenache wines to be extracted and overblown.

On average, Spain tends to produce more successful and/or interesting takes on Grenache/Garnacha than France. Probably the greatest spots for fine, elegant Garnacha are Serra de Gredos (close to Madrid) and Terra Alta (in Catalonia). In both these regions they have very old Garnacha vines that grow in very high altitudes, helping the grapes retain good freshness and acidity, yet at the same time letting them get enough sun so the grapes enough warmth to ripen fully.
+1 to old vine Spanish Garnacha. Producers to look out for include Bernabeleva, Comando G, Pegaso (Telmo Rodriguez) and Terroir al Limit. Some of the wines are already quite pricey, following some very high scores from Luis Gutierrez at WA.

I'd also recommend trying Halcon's Esquisto (see Jay Miller's thread here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=179214)
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Re: Grenache Curious

#8 Post by jrozes »

Chapelle St. Theodoric is 100% old vine Grenache grown in sandy soils not too far from Rayas. Couldn't tell you if they're "Rayas-like" but they're definitely made in a style that favors elegance over power. Price is around $60.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#9 Post by brodie thomson »

Craig G wrote: April 7th, 2021, 1:44 pm From the US, I’d recommend Birichino and A Tribute to Grace. They aren’t necessarily Rayas-like but they are very much in the red-fruited, lighter colored camp

A big yes for A Tribute to Grace. Lovely elegant lighter bodied style of Grenache

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Re: Grenache Curious

#10 Post by T. Altmayer »

I agree that if you are interested in nuanced and delicate Grenache, try any of the wines from A Tribute to Grace. Her wines are a unique approach to Grenache that I hope more winemakers in CA will emulate.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#11 Post by Dave McIsaac »

John Glas wrote: April 7th, 2021, 2:48 pm
Most of the time both Australian Grenache and Grenache from Southern Rhône tend to be quite big, ripe and heavy with high alcohol and low acidity
Clarendon Hills would be a good example that is not big, ripe and heavy from Australia. They do exist but need to search for them. I am sure there are several quality examples that don't get exported.
I would disagree about Clarendon Hills, which actually I would posit as Otto's poster child for over-ripe, gloppy grenache, I bought a bunch of the 2001 Kangarilla Old Vines, and they were marvelous young. But they never aged well, not at all.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#12 Post by John Glas »

I would disagree about Clarendon Hills, which actually I would posit as Otto's poster child for over-ripe, gloppy grenache, I bought a bunch of the 2001 Kangarilla Old Vines, and they were marvelous young. But they never aged well, not at all.
you are going to base this off one vintage which 2001 was the poster child for over the top Aussie wines.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#13 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Bucklin Ancient Vines.

It’s not Rayas, but it sure is delicious.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#14 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum »

Noah - Welcome to the community.

At least one person has mentioned it before to you: this is a real names board. You must have your last name somewhere in your heading, or in your signature line. Not trying to be a goody-goody, but someone will report you to the mods eventually and wouldn't it be nice to avoid that? :) It will probably be easier to find people to offline with if they know your real name.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#15 Post by Arv R »

You could try Charvin's various bottlings, which I think are nice examples of the grape, that are not OTT.

=====

My take on older Clarendon Hills wines is that were good young, didn't keep. But maybe its different today.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#16 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Lots of good suggestions on Spain already (Commando G, Telmo Rodriguez). Bodega Maranones is also good (Peña Caballera).

In SA, Badenhorst has the Raaigras which I enjoyed (2016). I was expecting something bigger and was quite surprised that it showed finesse.

I don't think we have A Tribute to Grace over here. I'll be on the lookout following the recommendations though. I tried Birichino (Old Vines Besson vineyard) and was quite happy with the QPR (not trying to pick a fight... we have to be careful using that acronym now) even though the finish was quite abrupt (2017).

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Re: Grenache Curious

#17 Post by Markus S »

If you put your thread about greatness and wanting to spend $500+/bottle, why not start your journey with Rayas?
Then you'll know...
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Re: Grenache Curious

#18 Post by Noah C »

Markus S wrote: April 7th, 2021, 6:44 pm If you put your thread about greatness and wanting to spend $500+/bottle, why not start your journey with Rayas?
Then you'll know...
Because Rayas is too expensive. Sourcing a well aged reliable bottle for $500 or less seems like an impossibility. Happy to take suggestions about where to buy.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#19 Post by Jeremy Holmes »

Hi Noah,

Your assumption that many modern day Aussie Shiraz are over-blown monstrosities is simply incorrect. There are some wonderful, ethereal Shiraz based wines being made right throughout Australia. The days of chasing Parker scores with Oozemonsters has well and truly passed.

There are some lovely Grenache based wines from Australia. Try something from Ministry of Clouds, Cirillo, Turkey Flat, Bethany, Yalumba, Bekkers, Eperosa or Yangarra.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#20 Post by GregT »

There is a lot of bad Grenache around. The grape is originally from Spain, but people associate it with France. However, until very recently, Spain had more acreage than the entire rest of the world. Most of it went to rosado and sangria. In France, a lot of it went to rosé and jug wine. Rayas is a fine example, but it's become kind of a cult wine and it shouldn't be. One of the problems is that the grape needs sun, but you have to watch it so it doesn't over produce and over ripen.

In Spain, there are a few producers who are champions of the grape, and in Priorat especially there are some versions that people love, but Clos Erasmus, loved by many, is to me very sweet and ripe and I can't remember the specific vintage but a few years ago one critic gave it 100 points and I found it almost undrinkable, and I like Grenache. So it's always a matter of personal taste. A better example IMHO is Espectacle del Montsant, from Monstant, made by René Barbier. A cheaper one would be from Bodegas Borsao, coming from Campo de Borja, in Aragón. They are aiming to be the benchmark for the grape. The basic bottle usually has some earthy notes to balance out the bright fruit.

From the US, a shockingly good version is Joel Gott's Alkai, which is almost a textbook example of a wine made from that grape and which you can find in supermarkets. Ridge does one but I've never particularly cared for it, and Qupe also does one that unfortunately I never found compelling. Beckmen, in Santa Ynez, used to do a very nice one but I haven't had it in a few years.

From France, a relatively expensive version is Domaine Pierre Usseglio's Cuvée Mon Aïeul, which is usually mostly, if not all Grenache. Another CdP that's almost entirely Grenache is Domaine de Marcoux Vieilles Vignes, which is usually a nice version.

A really great value from Australia is from Yangarra, both their OV version and their more expensive High Sands bottling. They do a few others but I can't remember the names. McLaren Vale is becoming known for Grenache in Australia, particularly the Blewitt Springs region. But don't overlook Barossa, for Yaluma, d'Arenberg, and John Duval.

We did blind tastings yearly for a long time and at home we drank a lot of Grenache, so it's hard to come up with a short list but these are a few off the top.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#21 Post by John Peacock »

For California, my favorite Grenache wines have come from A Tribute to Grace and Tablas Creek (though admittedly, I'm not as versed in California wine as I am NW wine). For Washington, Rotie's Little G, Gramercy's Third Man, Kerloo's Upland Vineyard, Sleight of Hand's Sorceress, and Kevin White's Pionnier are my favorites, and all tend to be in a more restrained style compared to the fruit bombs that Grenache can be. Grosgrain's Grenache wines are also very interesting, but I don't have the same history with those wines as I do the others.

Shameless Shill Moment: I also make exclusively Grenache from Washington vineyards with Ocelli Cellars, and I think my wines tend more towards the restrained side of things. I think if you've enjoyed Angela's A Tribute to Grace wines, you would enjoy mine.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#22 Post by M. Dildine »

I really love Will Bucklin's Grenache from Old Hill Ranch.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#23 Post by Brian Gilp »

I have a strong dislike for Grenache but really like A Tribute to Grace. The only California Grenache that I like better is Hobo but unfortunately he stopped making it as I understand it didn’t sell well. Darn shame as it was great and I am holding my few remaining bottles.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#24 Post by larry schaffer »

There certainly are lots of different 'styles' of Grenache out there, and I think folks have done a great job delineating this. Angela at A Tribute to Grace does a great job with a very light hand - her wines are lighter colored, lighter textured and more 'delicate' than many others in CA. She also used to make the wines at Folded Hills but no longer does - that's another winery to take note of if you like that style of Grenache. The Birichinos are definitely in that same mode. Have not tried the Bucklin ones but will have to search out.

It's a challenge to me because Grenache is such a beautiful aromatic variety that does require a good amount of heat to ripen and 'strut its stuff'. When picked too early, it simply lacks the uniqueness that this variety brings to the table - it reminds me of zinfandel in that regards.

Obviously you can go over the other end - and too many do so. That's where the tightrope is.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#25 Post by larry schaffer »

I would say that if you have not tried a lot of domestic Grenaches, now is a good time to explore - and don't be turned off but what you may have tried in the past - you might be surprised at what you'll find . . . Let me know if anyone needs suggestions for SBC examples.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#26 Post by Kelly Walker »

Not to be overlooked is Cayuse God Only Knows. Truly unique.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#27 Post by Michael O'Brien »

I bought Grenache from both Chiron and Orr during BD. So far. So good. I also bought some from Corazon del Sol winery in Mendoza to give them a try. I can find few if any tasting notes on the Corazon del Sol Grenache in CT or anywhere else. I haven't tried them yet.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#28 Post by John Peacock »

Kelly Walker wrote: April 8th, 2021, 8:55 am Not to be overlooked is Cayuse God Only Knows. Truly unique.
The God Only Knows isn't even labelled as a Grenache any longer. Starting with the 2014 vintage it is labelled "Red Wine". The blend has always been a mystery (Grenache plus God only knows), but now I can't even be sure how much Grenache is in the wine.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#29 Post by JulianD »

GregT wrote: April 8th, 2021, 12:00 am From France, a relatively expensive version is Domaine Pierre Usseglio's Cuvée Mon Aïeul, which is usually mostly, if not all Grenache. Another CdP that's almost entirely Grenache is Domaine de Marcoux Vieilles Vignes, which is usually a nice version.
Are Pierre and Raymond Usseglio related? (I see Raymond Usseglio much more frequently than Pierre)
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Re: Grenache Curious

#30 Post by Mel Hill »

Domaine Gramenon Ceps Centenaires La Mémé
100+ year old Grenache vines
reminds me of the few Rayas wines I've had
priced (thanks Kermit) kind of high around $90

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Re: Grenache Curious

#31 Post by Kelly Walker »

John Peacock wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:08 am
Kelly Walker wrote: April 8th, 2021, 8:55 am Not to be overlooked is Cayuse God Only Knows. Truly unique.
The God Only Knows isn't even labelled as a Grenache any longer. Starting with the 2014 vintage it is labelled "Red Wine". The blend has always been a mystery (Grenache plus God only knows), but now I can't even be sure how much Grenache is in the wine.
Are you sure? It has always been sold as grenache with the understanding that it is maybe 10% unknown grapes in a field blend (Armada fruit).
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Re: Grenache Curious

#32 Post by John Peacock »

Kelly Walker wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:47 am
John Peacock wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:08 am
Kelly Walker wrote: April 8th, 2021, 8:55 am Not to be overlooked is Cayuse God Only Knows. Truly unique.
The God Only Knows isn't even labelled as a Grenache any longer. Starting with the 2014 vintage it is labelled "Red Wine". The blend has always been a mystery (Grenache plus God only knows), but now I can't even be sure how much Grenache is in the wine.
Are you sure? It has always been sold as grenache with the understanding that it is maybe 10% unknown grapes in a field blend (Armada fruit).
I checked the bottles in my cellar to get the vintage it changed. I noticed it when we recently moved and I was putting wine away. 2014 forward it is labeled as Red Wine, which means it could be a blend of anything including 100% Grenache. My guess is that the blend is now less than the 75% Grenache required to be labeled with the variety name.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#33 Post by Chris C a r y »

This tasting was a few years ago, but gives an excellent cross section of Washington Grenache, and a few others.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146098

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Re: Grenache Curious

#34 Post by Kelly Walker »

John Peacock wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:52 am
Kelly Walker wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:47 am
John Peacock wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:08 am

The God Only Knows isn't even labelled as a Grenache any longer. Starting with the 2014 vintage it is labelled "Red Wine". The blend has always been a mystery (Grenache plus God only knows), but now I can't even be sure how much Grenache is in the wine.
Are you sure? It has always been sold as grenache with the understanding that it is maybe 10% unknown grapes in a field blend (Armada fruit).
I checked the bottles in my cellar to get the vintage it changed. I noticed it when we recently moved and I was putting wine away. 2014 forward it is labeled as Red Wine, which means it could be a blend of anything including 100% Grenache. My guess is that the blend is now less than the 75% Grenache required to be labeled with the variety name.
Interesting. The Cayuse website still calls it Grenache GOK.

https://cayusevineyards.com/static/wine ... knows.aspx
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Re: Grenache Curious

#35 Post by Patrick Duffy »

JulianD wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:14 am
GregT wrote: April 8th, 2021, 12:00 am From France, a relatively expensive version is Domaine Pierre Usseglio's Cuvée Mon Aïeul, which is usually mostly, if not all Grenache. Another CdP that's almost entirely Grenache is Domaine de Marcoux Vieilles Vignes, which is usually a nice version.
Are Pierre and Raymond Usseglio related? (I see Raymond Usseglio much more frequently than Pierre)
Brothers, but the next generation (so cousins) now run their wineries.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#36 Post by bretrooks »

larry schaffer wrote: April 8th, 2021, 8:49 am Angela at A Tribute to Grace does a great job with a very light hand - her wines are lighter colored, lighter textured and more 'delicate' than many others in CA. She also used to make the wines at Folded Hills but no longer does - that's another winery to take note of if you like that style of Grenache.
Side note: we recently had a bottle of 2019 Folded Hills Whole Cluster Carbonic Syrah...very aromatic and fresh, especially for a wine labeled 14.2% abv. "Carbonic" is not generally a word that draws me in, but we liked this quite a bit.

Interesting to hear that Angela Osborne has moved on - the Folded Hills website still lists her as the winemaker in the FAQ, but it seems that it's now Michael Brughelli as of last summer.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#37 Post by Dave McIsaac »

John Glas wrote: April 7th, 2021, 4:38 pm
I would disagree about Clarendon Hills, which actually I would posit as Otto's poster child for over-ripe, gloppy grenache, I bought a bunch of the 2001 Kangarilla Old Vines, and they were marvelous young. But they never aged well, not at all.
you are going to base this off one vintage which 2001 was the poster child for over the top Aussie wines.
Fair point John. I went back and looked, and had a couple vintages of the Kangarilla, and also a Liandra syrah. Again, they were really good young, and then became stewed messes. My recollection is RMP gave the 2001 a very high score (97?)

I have no idea if they changed their style, as I don't see them available near me.

I'm glad you enjoy them.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#38 Post by Noah C »

Thanks for all the great info! Has anyone had the Barroche Pure? It’s another 100% Grenache CdP and gets solid scores in CT. My curiosity is piqued, no idea if it is at all Rayas like in character.
Looking for wine friends in New Haven, CT! Message me if interested in sharing some drinks. Noah C @ p u r 5 0

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Re: Grenache Curious

#39 Post by GregT »

JulianD wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:14 am
GregT wrote: April 8th, 2021, 12:00 am From France, a relatively expensive version is Domaine Pierre Usseglio's Cuvée Mon Aïeul, which is usually mostly, if not all Grenache. Another CdP that's almost entirely Grenache is Domaine de Marcoux Vieilles Vignes, which is usually a nice version.
Are Pierre and Raymond Usseglio related? (I see Raymond Usseglio much more frequently than Pierre)
Francis Usseglio left Italy in the early 1930s and landed in France. He worked in vineyards and later founded the estate. He had 2 sons - Pierre and Raymond. Pierre took his dad's property and Raymond went out and started his own. Pierre's sons run his property today, which is the original property founded by Francis. Raymond's son Stéphane runs his property. So the two estates are run by cousins. The Pierre Usseglio wines get more critical attention, but the Raymond wines are in some ways more interesting because they're happy to experiment - they're biodynamic (which is a whole other issue) and they're doing wines in amphorae and small oak and large oak vats.
G . T a t a r

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Re: Grenache Curious

#40 Post by jnbrown »

IME anything from the S. Rhone (CDP, CDR, Etc) tends to be rather high alcohol and heavy.
It also is distinct from other regions with noticeable garrigue.
I can't explain why but I tend to like Gigondas. I think it has good balance and reasonable pricing.
Last night I opened Domaine St. Damien Gigondas Vieilles Vignes 2018 and it was quite good and will possibly buy more.
California Grenache to me is completely different and has more purity.
As others have already said, Tribute to Grace and Larry's Tercero are great.
I think my all time favorite Grenache was Harrison Clarke who sadly have retired.
It seems that there is not a lot of Grenache being made in California which is a shame because it can do well here.
Spanish Garnacha can be good, I used to enjoy Tres Picos at $13 (now $16), but it has become too sweet for me to enjoy any more so I need to find a replacement.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#41 Post by David B »

Just had a bottle of I. Brand Grenache that was pretty delicious and more of a lighter/medium bodied style. It was from the Besson Vineyard, which is over 100 years old.

Bedrock Gambrels of the Sky is another good one although it's not 100% Grenache.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#42 Post by Otto Forsberg »

jnbrown wrote: April 8th, 2021, 9:27 pm IME anything from the S. Rhone (CDP, CDR, Etc) tends to be rather high alcohol and heavy.
It also is distinct from other regions with noticeable garrigue.
I can't explain why but I tend to like Gigondas. I think it has good balance and reasonable pricing.
Are you familiar with Vacqueyras? Of the four appellations in the heart of S. Rhône, I've found CdPs to be the heaviest and most ripe in style, closely followed by Lirac. On the other hand, Gigondas and Vacqueyras seem to fare a lot better despite these warm vintages - they've often come across as a bit lighter and more balanced in style compared to CdP and Lirac.

Haven't done that much comparison, because S. Rhône really isn't my thing, but I've noticed that on average I tend to prefer Gigondas and Vacqueyras over Lirac and CdP.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#43 Post by dougwilder »

Sonja Magdevski's Clementine Carter, Nenow, Nicora, Brecon Estate. All of these are from either Paso Robles or Santa Barbara.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#44 Post by LasseK »

Had the Ca' di Mat, Fuente de los Huertos, 2018, not long ago. Very light in style. I liked it a lot.

I served it blind for my friends along with another Grenache. Here are my notes from IG:

"Aux Mages, Ætheria, 2016.
Ca' di Mat, Fuente de los Huertos, 2018.

The two wines was served blind side by side. This is two great examples of modern Grenache. Both made in a light style without any noticeable alcohol. The grapes in Ætheria comes from California and Fuente de los Huertos from the Gredos in Spain.

Both have a beautiful candied red fruit, with strawberries as the dominating note. Ætheria's fruit was a bit sweeter in it's expression, but the wine was also deeper and more complex in its current state. Fuente de los Huertos was very young and with a nice hint of licorice.
Grenache and Pinot Noir was guessed and Rayas was mentioned a few times in the conversation which makes sense here.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#45 Post by Mike Davila »

Noah C wrote: April 8th, 2021, 7:43 pm Thanks for all the great info! Has anyone had the Barroche Pure? It’s another 100% Grenache CdP and gets solid scores in CT. My curiosity is piqued, no idea if it is at all Rayas like in character.
Yes, I have had Pure and really enjoyed it, but have never had Rayas, so I can’t offer an opinion on how they compare.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#46 Post by Michael Martin »

I love Grenache, southern Rhône, Spanish, California. They can be all over the board and that’s what makes them fun to explore.
Some of the domestic ones that I have enjoyed are Carlisle, Bedrock, Ocelli (Washington), Dirty and Rowdy and Jaffurs to name a few.
I want to try Tercero as well. Larry seems to do well with more delicate grapes.

Some of the best have been southern Rhône’s namely Domaine Bosquets.

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Re: Grenache Curious

#47 Post by Eric White »

Eric Kent makes a pretty darn nice one

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Re: Grenache Curious

#48 Post by LasseK »

Eben Sadie's Soldaat is also very nice.
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Re: Grenache Curious

#49 Post by John Glas »

RMP gave the 2001 a very high score (97?)
That would be the first indicator that I would not buy that vintage. [stirthepothal.gif]

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Re: Grenache Curious

#50 Post by Laurent Gibet »

Rayas, that I am lucky enough to drink often is a wonder … and one of the best reds in the world.
These other wines produced by Emmanuel Reynaud VDP Vaucluse domaine des Tours and Côtes du Rhône Château des Tours are among the best bargains in the world.

Sierra de Gredos of course and recently a wonderful Castilla y Leon (Sierra de Gredos) Jimenez Landi El Reventon 2009 : 17,5/20
Excellent wines when I visited the area in 2019 :
Comando-G Las Umbrias 2018 : 18/20
Daniel Landi El Reventon Ladera (grande parcelle plein sud – 0,7 ha) 2018 : 16,5/17
Daniel Landi El Reventon (petite parcelle – 0,3 ha) 2018 : 17/17,5
Daniel Landi Las Iruelas 2018 : 17/20

Among my best grenache ever, at the domain : Priorat Terroir al Limit Les Manyes 2017 : 19/20 (grenache).

Priorat Alvaro Palacios tasted at the domain :
Priorat Alvaro Palacios La Baixada 2019 : 18/20
Priorat Alvaro Palacios Les Aubagetes 2019 : 18/20
Priorat Alvaro Palacios L’Ermita 2019 : 19/20
But they are not pure grenache (carignan Inside)


Montsant René Barbier Espectacle (Catalogne) is worth trying. I had an excellent 2004 in 2016.

Sadie Family Soldaat 2014 found very good in 2014 (16,5/20) in a wide grenache wines panel.

I need to taste again :
Palacios Remondo Rioja Quinon de Valmira
Vino de la Tierra de Castilla y Leon - Telmo Rodriguez « Pegaso Granito »
Vino de la Tierra de Castilla y Leon - Telmo Rodriguez « Pegaso Barrancos de Pizarra »
(Telmo Rodriguez Rioja Las Beatas is not pure grenache)
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