"If You Irrigate, It's Not Terroir..."

I was listening to one of the Dalton podcasts with Daniel Brunier of Vieux Telegraphe, and was really interested in a statement he made. His comment was “If you irrigate it’s not terroir. If you irrigate it’s a piece of land where you grow something.” Thoughts from the growers, winemakers, or anyone else?

I really cannot argue with it, except perhaps in establishing new vines.

“If it rains during the growing season, it’s not terroir”

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[stirthepothal.gif]

Perhaps Monsieur Brunier should check this out.

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I wonder if this in the context of winemakers that have the option to irrigate or not. In that case, I understand.

But in the case of producers from Ribera del Duero, for example, where irrigation is generally necessary? I can’t really see Brunier shitting on that. If he is, then boo. French gatekeeping merde.

Pass the popcorn.

If you leaf pluck, it’s not terroir!
If you green harvest, it’s not terroir!

If you don’t farm like we do, then it’s not terroir!

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OK, going to stir the pot myself…if a region does not get enough rain to grow a crop, is the “terroir” really worthy of that crop?

It’s not just grapes. Look at the almonds that suck up so much water in California. It’s complete BS.

Pretty silly comment.

If anything:
-If you chaptalise (adds alcohol with sugar not from the vineyard), it’s not terroir.
-If you use reverse osmosis (changes the result given from the vineyard), it’s not terroir.
-If you use any new oak (adds flavour from a tree not from the vineyard), it’s not terroir.

Irrigation actually appears to be the most terroir-neutral process here. Most of the vegetables and fruits we eat need irrigation, they don’t get lots of sugar or oak added to them.

There are regions with soils that drain so freely that judicious irrigation is viewed as improving wine quality, such as the Alto Adige.

Maybe he’s saying ‘I don’t need to irrigate, so it’s better not to.’

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Unless a grape vine occurs naturally in a given spot, it’s not a true expression terroir.

Unless a wine is made with yeast that naturally occurs on a given vine, it is not a true expression of terroir.

Unless a grape naturally grows inside an oak tree, then oak exposure is not a true expression of terroir.

Sorting grapes does not allow for true expression of terroir.

Unless an egg from a chicken who lives in the vineyard is used for fining, it is not an expression of true terroir.

Funny topic!

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I hear what you’re saying, and believe me, I opt for as little intervention as possible. But now we’re getting into a conversation about ethics in farming, which is different from if you can or cannot sense terroir when irrigation is involved. Not too tough to pick up Ribera in a blind, it’s a very specific wine, and that specificity of character in itself is enough for me to say that irrigation is not necessarily antithetical to terroir.

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Eastern Washington irrigates grapes, and most other crops. Some minimal dry farming around Walla Walla, Chelan maybe, but I’d guess 95+% wine grapes are irrigated. I’m biased in favor of irrigation since I like local wine, food, and beer. About 75% of America’s hops are grown here w irrigation.

To add to the other lists, training, pruning, spraying, thinning, planting in rows to affect sun angles, etc could all be considered intervention in the growing process affecting terroir.

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I’m not sure this is just a French sentiment? There are producers all over the world (including some new world ones) who refuse to irrigate, believing that it’s not in the best interests of the wine they produce.

Vieux Telegraphe does none of these, BTW, unless they need to buy a new barrel if one needs replacment.

I like this definition of terroir, from Musings on the Vine: “In a larger context, wine tasters try to define terroir as the specificity of place, which has come to include not only the soil in a region, but also the climate, the weather, the aspect of the vineyards and anything else that can possibly differentiate one piece of land from another.”

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Uh…like the Deep Roots Coalition in Oregon? They include one or two familiar names.

We promote sustainable and terroir-driven viticulture without irrigation.

MEMBERS
Our current members include winemakers and vineyard growers from the Willamette Valley. Please visit their websites below.

Arlyn

Anne Amie Vineyards

Apolloni Vineyards

Ayres Vineyard

Beckham Estate Vineyard

Belle Pente Vineyard

Brick House Vineyard

Brooks Winery

Cameron Winery

Carabella Vineyard

Carlo & Julian

Crowley Wines

EIEIO & Company

Evening Land

Evesham Wood Winery

Eyrie Vineyards

Flaneur Wines

Goodfellow Family Cellars / Matello Wines

Illahe Vineyards

J.C. Somers

J.K. Carriere Wines

Kelley Fox Wines

Mellen Meyer

Patricia Green Cellars

Patton Valley Vineyards

Sequitur

Trisaetum

Twill Cellars

Vincent Wine Company

Walter Scott Wines

Westrey Winery

BOARD MEMBERS
Tyson Crowley, President, Crowley Wines

John Paul, Founder, Cameron Winery

Russ Raney, Founder

Marcus Goodfellow, Goodfellow Family Cellars

Jim Prosser, J.K. Carriere Wines

Annedria Beckham, Beckham Estate Vineyard

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One can always go to extremes, which largely end up in boidynamics.

While I understand what he means, if a proprietor puts “terroir” ahead of the wine by refusing to irrigate when it could mean a better product then I find it burdensome and tiresome. Terroir or the amorphous “sense of place” shouldn’t be the final goal if it gets in the way way of making your best wine. If we follow such logic to it’s reductive, didactic and burdensome end then any decision that doesn’t amount to letting the grapes fall into non reactive vessels directly from the vines and pouring it into bottles without any other procedure or technique in between is not terroir.

Make informed and thoughtful decisions about how to make the best wine from your vineyard while not being a slave to dogma. Thanks.

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There has been numerous threads lately on terroir: definition, expression, lack of, etc. Always the same question: what is your definition of terroir? Unless there is a consensus, the same discussion will take place. Not a bad thing but kind of groundhog day…