It’s no secret that money is being printed, and the overall supply is up. Apparently some money is being diverted to collectibles; are any of you considering adding wine as a way of diversifying your portfolio.
THIS IS A WINE QUESTION; I HOPE WE CAN KEEP THIS IN WINETALK AND NOT HAVE TO MOVE IT TO POLITICS, SO PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS ROOT CAUSES.
I ‘invest’ in wine - e.g. I own a number of bottles I dont plan to drink. I think 2019 Bordeaux also presented an excellent opportunity to get some high quality, historically affordable wines.
It’s a great currency hedge too - after Brexit a lot of wines went up in notional value because you’re effectively paying GBP (in my case) for EUR costs. That being said with the rally on the pound in the last few months I’ve not seen a general decrease in the cost of wine yet.
bitcoin. nothing else will come close.
speaking personally, I get the intrinsic value of wine a lot more than the intrinsic value of bitcoin. I appreciate that’s a weird sentence for a number of reasons, though.
as someone into both, i fully get it. the intrinsic value of bitcoin is the same as anything else; what you plus at least one other person decide it’s worth. bitcoin has a rather cool built-in advantage however. unlike say, fiat currencies for example, bitcoin is inherently deflationary.
Yeah, I get that.
If I were a bitcoin investor (I’m not) I’d still be worried about potential upcoming regulation of it. Given the energy footprint of it, for example, that looks like a systematic risk on bitcoin. I’m sure there are other ones too.
By the time you add in storage and consignment/auction fees, I doubt it. It’s also pretty murky on the law in Ohio. Plus, you are going to wish you didn’t sell that wine when the apocalypse comes after inflation.
it’s already regulated in the US.
the energy footprint is a very strange combination of small / near-term thinking (it will get more efficient) and strange propoganda (society decides what we do and do not use energy for; see, e.g., cars, trucks, busses). You can opine that mining crytpo is “wasteful” but you cannot say it’s undemocratic, which is not the case for most all other energy uses.
Please do not derail this thread with more buttcoin discussion. If you would like to chat about your magical internet beans please take it elsewhere.
I really doubt that wine is a good inflation hedge. Lots of good threads here on whether wine is a good investment at all. Add to that the unpredictability of currency movements and inflation, and this seems like a weird risk. Of course if someone can point to long term research that shows how wine and inflation move in different directions, than I’ll eat my words (with some delicious wine to wash them down). My (personal) bet is that more traditional investing (stocks and bonds in low cost mutual funds) will remain the best long term strategy.
at least use the correct data, josh…
btw, if you go to the acker auction site you can run a graph with fine/rare wines against sp500 and the results are amazing. as good/better with less volatlity.
Ten years ago, that would have been worth five bitcoins. You should completely make that into a NFT!
Investing in collectables is betting on the wealthy receiving an outsized portion of new wealth created. It has happened that way for a long time and will likely continue.
Ok, pretty neat tool, took me a minute to find it. Even though I’m a little suspicious because I don’t know what the data actually comes from for the various indices, I’ll take it for face value for the moment. Looking at the last 10 years and last 5 years, the winner is the S&P500. Crushingly so. In the last 10 years … the % up is:
S&P500: 196%
Burgundy: 136%
“Fine and Rare”: 65%
Italy: 85%
Champagne: 60%
Bordeaux: NEGATIVE 5%
the problem imho is what you define as bordeaux. If that captures EP 2010, then yeah absolutely. Bdx 19 you should be maybe 20-35% up depending on the wines you bought IMHO.
I didn’t define anything Henry - these are whatever Acker is defining as “Indices.” Probably data from the one or two places you can actually invest in wine without buying the bottles yourself.
Yes, if you are careful, aggressive and lucky you can get good returns on 5 or 10 bottles and make a few hundred dollars. But if you want to actually invest significant money in the long term it seems pretty clear that wine is not a good vehicle.
All the discussion about S&P is not particularly relevant. The topic at hand is alternative investments that can act as hedges. Investing in the S&P is not a hedge for the vast majority of people.
If you want a wine investment with a different kind of liquidity, you can now buy shares of a publicly traded Duckhorn, with the trading symbol NAPA.
Disclaimer, I will not be an investor.