Grasshopper you have learned well...'04 Lillian and '04 SQN Poker Face

Grasshopper…you have learned well


With Col Bob Cuozzi, Jeff and Dena Morris and Barb and Steve
With a Moroccan Lamb Stew with Couscous, an amazingly impressive rendition

2004 Lillian California Syrah “Blue Label” Amity Oregon, alc 15.4%, decanted for about an hour….deep purple with a nose of roasted meat and expresso and plum…very rich and decadent with excellent balance…reminds one of a great Hermitage wine….olives, leather, meat, very intense Syrah fruit…explodes in a very pleasurable way….quite amazing for anything not in the Rhone Valley…no oak, no excess sweetness, no excess alcohol, wonderfully balanced….has decades of life ahead…

2004 Sine Qua Non Poker Face, Ventura California, alc 15.5%…decanted for 2 hrs…nose is of bacon, smoked meat and sweet cherry wood…palate is decadent with the most velvety texture but really quite structured and “big” on the palate…becomes very expresso and coffee with an impressive scaffold of fruit…really much more integrated and “less angry” than a year ago….becomes very Rhone like with food with Cote-Rotie features…the finish goes on and on….no hurry on this one….

Sorry, I have to jump in …04 Lillian "balanced + Deep purple = hermitage just doesnt compute…

I’ve yet to have a deep purple Hermitage and comparing Lillian Syrah is a bit of a disservice to Hermitage imho.

Glad you enjoyed the wines though, as it’s all that matters.

But why the need to compare it to a world–class area when this bottling is 6 yrs old?

Because…we drink a lot of Hermitage (from 2006 back to 1982)…and this reminded the group of wines from that area…Col Bob goes back to the '70’s and he said the same thing…it has many of the same flavor and aroma profiles…no big deal…just expressing our opinion on how this Syrah compared to others with which one might be familiar

Condescending much? What a douche comment in response to a guy’s subjective note.

I try to say nothing when I read these notes, because I’ve learned it serves little purpose. But the truth is that Peter’s right. There is no Hermitage that tastes anything like Poker Face. I could count on one hand (not using all fingers) the number of California Syrahs that have come even close to making me think of a good Hermitage. No SQN wine I’ve ever had is among them. Peter’s not being condescending, just trying to put a little reality into the conversation.
Cheers

I have to say, I’ve had SQN, and had Hermitage, and I couldn’t find more difference between those two than I could between a cheap Viognier and an OMV Zinfandel. I also fail to see the correlation, and I’m not trying to be condescending or mean.

Alan; FWIW, he said the Lillian was similar to Hermitage not the SQN. Do you have much experience with the Lillian wines? Personally, I would not say it was close to Hermitage yet but it is a not typical for California syrah and despite its’ color does have some “Rhoneish” qualities.

Cheers!
Marshall

Fair enough. I’m not a troll. I just thought the original response was over the top to a guy trying to share his experience. I look forward to contributing in a more positive way, but responses like this act as a pretty strong deterrent to a novice like me.

Thanks for the notes. The Lillian is a special wine isn’t it? 1st out of the gate and it is a roaring success. The sky is the limit for Maggie.

Sounded like you enjoyed the wines Stephen. That would be a fun comparison between those two wines. I really look forward to following Maggie and the Lillian wines for many years.

Thanks for one the few Blue Label notes out there.

Cool no biggie on my end either - the comparison reminded me of the WA calling a Spanish wine a dead ringer for La Tache - but glad you enjoyed the wines regardless.

The only SQN I’ve had is the Atlantis Syrah (?) and it was a monster/modern wine, nothing was old world or Cote Rotie about that sucker. Doesn’t mean it was bad - I recall enjoying it with some sort of rib appetizer.

No experience yet, obviously hope to at some point - though given some fairly extensive experience with central coast Syrahs, I’m reasonably confident I know the range the wine can fall into. Mind you, I’m not saying in any way that this or any other wine is not as good as described by the taster; It’s just a bit hard to read all the time how this or that wine is similar to this or that great European wine, whether it’s Hermitage, Burgundy, Bordeaux, you name it.
Cheers

Alan; I understand your point about comparing wines to other geographical areas…it is usually not terribly accurate. However, in this case, you owe it to yourself to try the Lillian syrah. I believe these wines are a bit unique and are trying to get away from the California fruit bomb syndrome. Within my tasting group, I am one of the members with a slightly older, and maybe “Eurocentric” palate. Truthfully, many of my cohorts are quite surprised that I like the Lillian as much as I since I do not share their love of other well known Central Coast syrahs.

Cheers!
Marshall

Marshall, I intend to try it, hopefully soon (Tony, are you reading this? And don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy a number of Central Coast syrahs, and I do enjoy some of the big guns like Saxum (though obviously not every night). I think many/most of them are very well made wines (well, I think Alban has gone over the edge, the wines are just far too ripe, and the past couple I’ve tried have as a result been flawed IMO). My comments aren’t AGAINST any wine. Let’s leave the Lillian out, because I’ve never had it, but if you taste virtually any central coast wine side by side with virtually any northern Rhone wine (OK, let’s leave out the 03 vintage), there will be little similarity. That’s not a bad thing in my mind, it just tells us that terroir is real. Anyway, I’ll have to get my hands on a Lillian and see for myself.
Cheers

Thanks for the notes Stephen. I too hear wonderful things about the Lillian.

Best

Alan (and others)…perhaps you should try/experience the wine prior to any comment about what or what not the wine represents…Lillian is a really well made Syrah that is good enough to allow one to make some general comparisons to other great Syrah based wines…to make negative and derogatory comments without EVER tasting the wines make little sense to me…each to his/her own…

I’ve drank with Marshall many times and respect his palate. He’s very experienced among a wide range of wines. But DUDE!!! Lillian is similar to Hermitage!? I must respectfully disagree. Lillian is of the big soft style made popular in Napa and transferred to Syrah and perfected by Maggie’s mentors at Sine Qua Non. At least that is how the 05 has drank to me. I went through 3 bottles myself and have tasted from others as well.

Steve, it was my mistake originally to mix up your comments on Lillian and Poker Face, you kind of equated qualities of both to either Hermitage or Cote Rotie. But since I have had the Poker Face, and drink a lot of N. Rhone wines, I’m comfortable with my original thoughts. I’ll counter by suggesting the next time you open a SQN wine (and probably Lillian for that matter), open a well made N. Rhone wine and drink them side by side. I nearly guaranty you won’t confuse one for the other.
Cheers

Alan; FWIW, he said the Lillian was similar to Hermitage not the SQN. Do you have much experience with the Lillian wines? Personally, I would not say it was close to Hermitage yet but it is a not typical for California syrah and despite its’ color does have some “Rhoneish” qualities.

Hey Cris; Just noticed this…Actually I was just correcting a misquote by Alan. I am not really comparing the Lillian to a great Northern Rhone but I do believe the wine is not quite the fruit bomb that other Central Coast big gun syrahs purport to be. I also think that future vintages will show a bit more structure and backbone.


Cheers!
Marshall

While I agree that having not had Lillian one should probably not comment on what it does or does not taste like, I think the original objection was to the deep purple line, but if you read the part in bold it makes some sense. Ive had some Hermitage, and lots of Lillian. Ive never been reminded of Hermitage by Lillian, but olive, leather and meat are flavors I have found in Hermitage…Didnt sound like he was calling it a dead ringer for hermitage…