Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

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Peter Kleban
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#51 Post by Peter Kleban »

So far, in no particular order:

2019 Collestefano Verdicchio di Matelica
2015 & '16 Bruno Giacosa Roero Arneis
2015 Guido Marsella Fiano di Avellino

closely followed by

2013 Monte Tondo Soave Classico
2015 Bisci Verdicchio di Matelica Senex
2016 Le Ormere Greco di Tufo
2016 Fosso degli Angeli Fiano Sannio Chiusa
2016 Angelo Negro e Figli Roero Arneis Serra Lupini

Some fantastic QPR here!
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#52 Post by Brandon Econ »

Tvrtko C. wrote: March 19th, 2021, 3:00 pm
Brandon Econ wrote: March 18th, 2021, 10:15 amLa Sabilla Falanghina
This, Sir, is a very enlightened pick in my book. Entry-level or Cruna del Lago?

(Marko Fon doesn't count, let's just leave him in Slovenia, borderline or not :-) )
The Cruna. It's so good! I've had several vintages but I had the absolute honor of enjoying the 2011 with Vincenzo and his wife over an amazing lunch she prepared.

Fine about Marko, I'll swap in Ronco del Gnemiz Sauvignon then.

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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#53 Post by ChrisJames »

Tvrtko C. wrote: March 19th, 2021, 3:00 pm
Brandon Econ wrote: March 18th, 2021, 10:15 amLa Sabilla Falanghina
This, Sir, is a very enlightened pick in my book. Entry-level or Cruna del Lago?

(Marko Fon doesn't count, let's just leave him in Slovenia, borderline or not :-) )
I suppose Marjan Simcic doesn't count either. Too bad as I've really enjoyed wines from this producer.

Not seeing much love for I Clivi either. Isn't Brazan and Galea (both cru Fruilano) highly regarded?

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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#54 Post by Sean Corbett »

Am not saying anything new here:

- Benanti Pietra Marina
- Pieropan Calvarino
- Pieropan La Rocca

Have a Valentini treb that I haven't tried yet.

Have enjoyed Gravner Breg, Radikon Slatnik, Terlan Vorberg Riserva.

Just tried the Cistercensi Coenobium tonight, so recency bias tells me to put it on there.

And on a hot Roman summer's day, sometimes all one wants is a chilled Est Est Est.

In the interest of adding something new, I'll put two wines that I noted when I lived in Tuscany, but have never tried since. Perhaps someone else can chime in if they hold up to scrutiny:

La Distesa "Terre Silvate", Marche IGT Verdicchio
I Campetti “Almabruna” Toscana Viognier
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#55 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Brandon Econ wrote: March 19th, 2021, 5:45 pmThe Cruna. It's so good! I've had several vintages but I had the absolute honor of enjoying the 2011 with Vincenzo and his wife over an amazing lunch she prepared.
Lucky you... What a wine. It's simply so good, so special and so different the mind just boggles. The Campi Flegrei is a unique place on this planet in the sense that literally nothing quite like it exists elsewhere. The same sui generis quality very much extends to the wines made there, thanks to a handful of single-minded, truly committed winemakers (Italians like to use the expression "heroic", as in "viticoltura eroica" :-)). It is also a very small area, so, naturally, there isn't a lot of wine to go around. And then someone comes along and says: "Ehm OK... but is it world-class"? What on earth does that even mean? Wines like these have no case to answer. And Italy is chock-a-block with them, head to heel :-).
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#56 Post by Tvrtko C. »

ChrisJames wrote: March 19th, 2021, 6:03 pmI suppose Marjan Simcic doesn't count either. Too bad as I've really enjoyed wines from this producer.
Not seeing much love for I Clivi either. Isn't Brazan and Galea (both cru Fruilano) highly regarded?
Indeed :-). Marko Fon doesn't count, Marjan Simcic doesn't count, Edi Simcic doesn't count, etc. Friuli Venezia Giulia is a very complicated area, but if we start classifying wines made by Slovene winemakers in Slovenia as Italian, what about Gravner, Radikon, Kante, Zidaric, Vodopivec, Sandi Skerk and so many other notable ethnic Slovene winemakers making wine in Italy? Maybe someone should start a thread on Slovene wines :-)

I Clivi, don't know about anyone else, but lots of love from me. I think the Zanussis make ehm world-class wines :-). Brazzan and Galea also tend to age really well, and so does their old-vine Malvasia bottling.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#57 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Sean Corbett wrote: March 20th, 2021, 2:08 amAnd on a hot Roman summer's day, sometimes all one wants is a chilled Est Est Est.
I know what you mean [cheers.gif]

On La Distesa, unless I'm mistaken, Otto mentioned Gli Eremi further up. On the Terre Silvate specifically, I think I've tasted most of their recent vintages and I'm happy to report that it is still very much an excellent and very intriguing wine from my perspective. Great with food, as well.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#58 Post by ChrisJames »

Tvrtko C. wrote: March 20th, 2021, 8:59 am
ChrisJames wrote: March 19th, 2021, 6:03 pmI suppose Marjan Simcic doesn't count either. Too bad as I've really enjoyed wines from this producer.
Not seeing much love for I Clivi either. Isn't Brazan and Galea (both cru Fruilano) highly regarded?
Indeed :-). Marko Fon doesn't count, Marjan Simcic doesn't count, Edi Simcic doesn't count, etc. Friuli Venezia Giulia is a very complicated area, but if we start classifying wines made by Slovene winemakers in Slovenia as Italian, what about Gravner, Radikon, Kante, Zidaric, Vodopivec, Sandi Skerk and so many other notable ethnic Slovene winemakers making wine in Italy? Maybe someone should start a thread on Slovene wines :-)

I Clivi, don't know about anyone else, but lots of love from me. I think the Zanussis make ehm world-class wines :-). Brazzan and Galea also tend to age really well, and so does their old-vine Malvasia bottling.
Thanks. I have some 2016 Brazan and Galea hidden away for another few years. Do you have any experience with Markus Prackwiesser Gump Pinot Blanc, etc., in Alto Adige?

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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#59 Post by Tvrtko C. »

ChrisJames wrote: March 20th, 2021, 10:15 amThanks. I have some 2016 Brazan and Galea hidden away for another few years. Do you have any experience with Markus Prackwiesser Gump Pinot Blanc, etc., in Alto Adige?
Yup. He is a fantastic person and a fabulous host, once tipped me off on one of the best hikes in the area that I hadn't been aware of :-). I think the Pinot Blanc is very good, but I'm not a regular buyer (and have never tried ageing it). My focus was always on the Praesulis SB (which I feel is his best wine) and the Schiava (one of the very best in all of AA, if you ask me).
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#60 Post by K N Haque »

Tvrtko C. wrote: March 20th, 2021, 10:36 am
ChrisJames wrote: March 20th, 2021, 10:15 amThanks. I have some 2016 Brazan and Galea hidden away for another few years. Do you have any experience with Markus Prackwiesser Gump Pinot Blanc, etc., in Alto Adige?
Yup. He is a fantastic person and a fabulous host, once tipped me off on one of the best hikes in the area that I hadn't been aware of :-). I think the Pinot Blanc is very good, but I'm not a regular buyer (and have never tried ageing it). My focus was always on the Praesulis SB (which I feel is his best wine) and the Schiava (one of the very best in all of AA, if you ask me).
Thread Drift: the Gump Schiava is good, but my favorite Schiava/Vernatsch is Pranzegg.

As far as Italian whites, my vote goes to the Paolo Bea whites, followed by Foradori's Nosiola.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#61 Post by Gregory Dal Piaz »

K N Haque wrote: March 20th, 2021, 11:26 am
Tvrtko C. wrote: March 20th, 2021, 10:36 am
ChrisJames wrote: March 20th, 2021, 10:15 amThanks. I have some 2016 Brazan and Galea hidden away for another few years. Do you have any experience with Markus Prackwiesser Gump Pinot Blanc, etc., in Alto Adige?
Yup. He is a fantastic person and a fabulous host, once tipped me off on one of the best hikes in the area that I hadn't been aware of :-). I think the Pinot Blanc is very good, but I'm not a regular buyer (and have never tried ageing it). My focus was always on the Praesulis SB (which I feel is his best wine) and the Schiava (one of the very best in all of AA, if you ask me).
Thread Drift: the Gump Schiava is good, but my favorite Schiava/Vernatsch is Pranzegg.

As far as Italian whites, my vote goes to the Paolo Bea whites, followed by Foradori's Nosiola.
To keep the drift going, the US Market for Schiava is very thin, but I am luck to visit family in Trentino once or twice a year so I can catch up on Schiava. For me Girlan's Gschleier remains the benchmark, especially with several years of age. Glogglhof old vines from Franz Gojer is a close second, and the Kaltersee Keil from Manincor can be terrific. In Trentino one can find some delicious examples, especially from the val di Cembra, I like Cantina di Montagna, and Gino Pedrotti, in addition to making benchmark Vino Santo produces a great Schaiva nera.

I try mostly the same producers every year but will look out for the Gump and Pranzegg to add to the rotation!
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#62 Post by Barry L i p t o n »

Pieropan Calvarino
And I enjoy their La Rocca too.

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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#63 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Gregory Dal Piaz wrote: March 21st, 2021, 8:43 am To keep the drift going, the US Market for Schiava is very thin, but I am luck to visit family in Trentino once or twice a year so I can catch up on Schiava. For me Girlan's Gschleier remains the benchmark, especially with several years of age. Glogglhof old vines from Franz Gojer is a close second, and the Kaltersee Keil from Manincor can be terrific. In Trentino one can find some delicious examples, especially from the val di Cembra, I like Cantina di Montagna, and Gino Pedrotti, in addition to making benchmark Vino Santo produces a great Schaiva nera.

I try mostly the same producers every year but will look out for the Gump and Pranzegg to add to the rotation!
I was kind of doing my bit to keep the drift from escalating, but now that you mention it... :-) There is a LOT of really good Schiava around these days (and Sankt Magdalener as well...) for those who enjoy this type of wine. Just very briefly, definitely +1 on Franz Gojer's Alte Reben. Baron Widmann is fabulous too. Plus many others. In a different stylistic register, Heinrich Mayr's Elda (a field blend but normally at least around 90% old-vine Schiava) is a legendary wine. And, of course, Hartmann Dona' and his Rouge: possibly the best Schiava-based red wine ever.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#64 Post by webennettb »

Marisa Cuomo Fiorduva
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#65 Post by Chris Piti »

Thank me later - here are 5 Italian White recommendations

1)Terlano Nova Domus -Chard/Pinot Bianco/Sauv Blanc blend from the north. Built for the long haul
2)Villa Bucci Riserva 2016 - Verdicchio from the Marche region - Home of Tods shoes
3)Pieropan La Rocco or Calvarino - Grand Cru Soave from the Veneto
4)Isole e Olena Chardonnay - Toscana Italy’s best Chard
5)Querciabella Batar - Toscana 50/50 Chard & Pinot Bianco Biodynamic juice from Greve. Used to be named Batard, but had to drop the D with France being angry about it.

Batar is $90 or less. The rest are between $40-$70


These will set you straight.

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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#66 Post by Lorenzo F »

I wanna mention an outsider : it might not be amongs the top for some , this guy has the touch of the modern garagiste.Ognostro Bianco .
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#67 Post by Oliver McCrum »

Tvrtko C. wrote: March 21st, 2021, 11:55 am
Gregory Dal Piaz wrote: March 21st, 2021, 8:43 am To keep the drift going, the US Market for Schiava is very thin, but I am luck to visit family in Trentino once or twice a year so I can catch up on Schiava. For me Girlan's Gschleier remains the benchmark, especially with several years of age. Glogglhof old vines from Franz Gojer is a close second, and the Kaltersee Keil from Manincor can be terrific. In Trentino one can find some delicious examples, especially from the val di Cembra, I like Cantina di Montagna, and Gino Pedrotti, in addition to making benchmark Vino Santo produces a great Schaiva nera.

I try mostly the same producers every year but will look out for the Gump and Pranzegg to add to the rotation!
I was kind of doing my bit to keep the drift from escalating, but now that you mention it... :-) There is a LOT of really good Schiava around these days (and Sankt Magdalener as well...) for those who enjoy this type of wine. Just very briefly, definitely +1 on Franz Gojer's Alte Reben. Baron Widmann is fabulous too. Plus many others. In a different stylistic register, Heinrich Mayr's Elda (a field blend but normally at least around 90% old-vine Schiava) is a legendary wine. And, of course, Hartmann Dona' and his Rouge: possibly the best Schiava-based red wine ever.
We do really well with Schiava, at least in California; people used to be very concerned about depth of color in red wine 20 years ago, but no longer, fortunately. I drink a lot of it.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#68 Post by ChrisW »

Fantastic thread - lots to explore. Feels like there's a WB event/offsite waiting to happen here.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#69 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Lorenzo F wrote: March 21st, 2021, 1:37 pm I wanna mention an outsider : it might not be amongs the top for some , this guy has the touch of the modern garagiste.Ognostro Bianco .
I really like Tinessa, but I have some reservations. While his best bottles are very good, there has really been an inordinate amount of weird or off bottles as well.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#70 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

We just had a Gini Contrada Salvarenza Vecchie Vigne 2016 release around here. I got my fair share since I really enjoyed the only other vintage I have tried (2012), especially my last bottle in 2020. The private importer sent out some information to go along the release. I was surprised to learn that more than a third of the vines producing the grapes for this cuvée are pre-philloxera. Apparently, the Gini family has been cultivating vines since the 17th century. A quote from Claudio Gini: "We don't know the exact age of these vines but my grand-father remembers that they look today just as in his youth".

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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#71 Post by Andrew Bair »

Dry:

Gravner Breg Anfora
Gravner Ribolla Anfora
Borgo del Tiglio Friulano Ronca della Chiesa
Fiorano Malvasia di Candia
Montenidoli Vernaccia di San Gimignano Carato or Jermann Vintage Tunina (can't decide between these two)

Sweet:

Quintarelli Amabile del Ceri Bandito
San Giusto a Rentennano Vin San Giusto
Maculan Acininobili
Lis Neris Tal Luc
Dal Forno Romano Nettare

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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#72 Post by Sean Corbett »

Peter Kleban wrote: March 19th, 2021, 4:55 pm 2019 Collestefano Verdicchio di Matelica
Our local shop just got this in, so I snapped some up based on this thread!

Looking forward to it.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#73 Post by Otto Forsberg »

Andrew Bair wrote: March 25th, 2021, 4:57 pm Dry:

Gravner Breg Anfora
Gravner Ribolla Anfora
Borgo del Tiglio Friulano Ronca della Chiesa
Fiorano Malvasia di Candia
Montenidoli Vernaccia di San Gimignano Carato or Jermann Vintage Tunina (can't decide between these two)
The jury's still out whether the Gravner wines count towards Italian whites, but nevertheless that's a list of truly spectacular wines!
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#74 Post by Peter Kleban »

Sean Corbett wrote: March 27th, 2021, 4:38 pm
Peter Kleban wrote: March 19th, 2021, 4:55 pm 2019 Collestefano Verdicchio di Matelica
Our local shop just got this in, so I snapped some up based on this thread!

Looking forward to it.
Hope you enjoy it! Let us know.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#75 Post by Mikael OB »

A few of my favorites:

Skerk Ograde
Ronchi di Cialla CiallaBianco with age (+10 years?)
La Castellada - most everything
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#76 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Mikael OB wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:24 am A few of my favorites:

Skerk Ograde
Ronchi di Cialla CiallaBianco with age (+10 years?)
La Castellada - most everything
Some strong nominations here. Although, personally, I much prefer Skerk's Malvasia to his Ograde. Rapuzzi - actually pretty much everything, yes, yes, and yes :-). Bensa getting a lot less respect than they should: in that style, they are as good as any of the best and probably better than most.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#77 Post by Claus Jeppesen »

The 4 of them will be Timorasso
The 5th a Pecorino maybe
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#78 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Claus Jeppesen wrote: March 28th, 2021, 9:35 am The 4 of them will be Timorasso
The 5th a Pecorino maybe
That sounds a bit like me, too :-)
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#79 Post by Otto Forsberg »

Claus Jeppesen wrote: March 28th, 2021, 9:35 am The 4 of them will be Timorasso
The 5th a Pecorino maybe
Hear hear!

I love Timorasso, but while I've enjoyed most Pecorinos I've had, they've all been just enjoyable (and often quite characterful) but also somewhat pedestrian everyday whites, nothing world-class. Any good recommendations?
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#80 Post by Mikael OB »

Tvrtko C. wrote: March 28th, 2021, 9:33 am
Mikael OB wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:24 am A few of my favorites:

Skerk Ograde
Ronchi di Cialla CiallaBianco with age (+10 years?)
La Castellada - most everything
Some strong nominations here. Although, personally, I much prefer Skerk's Malvasia to his Ograde. Rapuzzi - actually pretty much everything, yes, yes, and yes :-). Bensa getting a lot less respect than they should: in that style, they are as good as any of the best and probably better than most.
I never got around to try the Malvasia, will work on correcting that mistake. However Ograde is quite a treat, really special, excellent balance and hauntingly complex, an emotion difficult to put a finger on.

Was considering if to add Ronchi di Cialla’s Ribolla Gialla which in most vintages is terrific as well and a pure joy (believe I said quite a bit about the red wines in previous posts as well). Recall reading a review from Ian D’Agata that Enzo from Miani at some point mentioned liking it, not a bad endorsement.

Indeed, Castellada doesn’t get the attention it honestly deserves, and everything I tried visiting or elsewhere for that matter has been terrific. Maybe due to being less extreme than it’s famous neighbors (?).
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#81 Post by Mikael OB »

Otto Forsberg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 12:39 pm
Claus Jeppesen wrote: March 28th, 2021, 9:35 am The 4 of them will be Timorasso
The 5th a Pecorino maybe
Hear hear!

I love Timorasso, but while I've enjoyed most Pecorinos I've had, they've all been just enjoyable (and often quite characterful) but also somewhat pedestrian everyday whites, nothing world-class. Any good recommendations?
Have you try Tiberio? Can recommend giving that a go and while I didn’t try Emidio Pepe‘s I am sure it will challenge the pedestrian level perception champagne.gif
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#82 Post by Marshall Manning »

Otto Forsberg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 12:39 pm I love Timorasso, but while I've enjoyed most Pecorinos I've had, they've all been just enjoyable (and often quite characterful) but also somewhat pedestrian everyday whites, nothing world-class. Any good recommendations?
I'm not sure it's "world class", but one of the best Pecorinos I've had is the 2019 Dianetti from Offida. It's crisp, clean and delicious and avoids the soft, banana quality of many Pecorinos (Pecorini?).
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#83 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Otto Forsberg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 12:39 pm
Claus Jeppesen wrote: March 28th, 2021, 9:35 am The 4 of them will be Timorasso
The 5th a Pecorino maybe
Hear hear!

I love Timorasso, but while I've enjoyed most Pecorinos I've had, they've all been just enjoyable (and often quite characterful) but also somewhat pedestrian everyday whites, nothing world-class. Any good recommendations?
Telegraphically, my list would have De Fermo currently ahead of the pack with Tiberio right behind, followed by a handful of others (Torre dei Beati is not bad), and then a number of producers from Offida in a somewhat different style. Pepe is good, but to me not overly exciting, seen it before. Way overpriced, too.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#84 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Mikael OB wrote: March 28th, 2021, 1:54 pmI never got around to try the Malvasia, will work on correcting that mistake. However Ograde is quite a treat, really special, excellent balance and hauntingly complex, an emotion difficult to put a finger on.

Was considering if to add Ronchi di Cialla’s Ribolla Gialla which in most vintages is terrific as well and a pure joy (believe I said quite a bit about the red wines in previous posts as well). Recall reading a review from Ian D’Agata that Enzo from Miani at some point mentioned liking it, not a bad endorsement.

Indeed, Castellada doesn’t get the attention it honestly deserves, and everything I tried visiting or elsewhere for that matter has been terrific. Maybe due to being less extreme than it’s famous neighbors (?).
Agreed 100% on La Castellada. Understand what you say about Enzo, but, for what it's worth, and conservatively, I think Ivan is every bit the winemaker that Enzo is, if you ask me...
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#85 Post by Mikael OB »

You won’t hear me argue that, I hold RdC as one of the top Italian estates. Can’t think of many (if any), at least in Italy, wineries producing so many terrific and diverse wines. What I wanted to highlight was praise from another winemaker, a college, and especially coming from someone like Enzo says quite a bit.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#86 Post by Michael Acheson »

Mikael OB wrote: March 28th, 2021, 2:12 pm
Otto Forsberg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 12:39 pm
Claus Jeppesen wrote: March 28th, 2021, 9:35 am The 4 of them will be Timorasso
The 5th a Pecorino maybe
Hear hear!

I love Timorasso, but while I've enjoyed most Pecorinos I've had, they've all been just enjoyable (and often quite characterful) but also somewhat pedestrian everyday whites, nothing world-class. Any good recommendations?
Have you try Tiberio? Can recommend giving that a go and while I didn’t try Emidio Pepe‘s I am sure it will challenge the pedestrian level perception champagne.gif
Seconded!
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#87 Post by Lorenzo F »

Tvrtko C. wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 1:25 pm
Lorenzo F wrote: March 21st, 2021, 1:37 pm I wanna mention an outsider : it might not be amongs the top for some , this guy has the touch of the modern garagiste.Ognostro Bianco .
I really like Tinessa, but I have some reservations. While his best bottles are very good, there has really been an inordinate amount of weird or off bottles as well.
Agreed . Similar to Valentinis or Pepe . Wish I had a time machine and see what it could be like in 20y .
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#88 Post by Tim Heaton »

Selvadolce - Aris is a genius
Walter Mattoni - crazy, super fun, super talented grower/winemaker
Paolo/Gianpiero Bea - no introduction necessary

- whites, for sure, but also the reds from these producer/growers

Also, fwiw, agree with Otto re: Pecorino's heights/potential. Not too much more than Passerina's, in my experience. Sure, some can be quite nice, but highly memorable? Not so much.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#89 Post by Tvrtko C. »

Tim Heaton wrote: March 29th, 2021, 2:22 pmAlso, fwiw, agree with Otto re: Pecorino's heights/potential. Not too much more than Passerina's, in my experience.
[rofl.gif]
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#90 Post by Dennis Atick »

This stuff was pretty fantastic last night.
https://www.suavia.it/wines/monte-carbonare/
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#91 Post by Brian Lynch »

Michael Acheson wrote: March 15th, 2021, 9:37 am
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote: March 15th, 2021, 5:30 am San Lorenzo "Il San Lorenzo" and all Borgo del Tiglio, especially with age.

Then the rest.

Hi Sarah,
I'm curious, how were you turned on to the "Il San Lorenzo" bianco? Have you had the Rosso as well? They're such insanely cool wines, but I feel like they're flying wayyyy below the radar.
Best,
m
What's a good retail source for these red and whites?
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#92 Post by Otto Forsberg »

Dennis Atick wrote: April 8th, 2021, 3:54 am This stuff was pretty fantastic last night.
https://www.suavia.it/wines/monte-carbonare/
Suavia is among my favorite Soave producers, but while Monte Carbonare is a great wine in its own right, I think it has always played the second fiddle in Suavia's range. I've had Suavia wines many times and consistently Massifitti, their 100% Trebbiano di Soave (a wine I already mentioned in post #3) has been the most impressive effort in the whole range.

On my palate, Monte Carbonare has always come across as somewhat softer, fruitier and more voluptuous in style, while Massifitti has exhibited much better its volcanic minerality, impressive structure and more focused fruit. Both these wines are simply outstanding, but in my books only Massifitti is really among some of the greatest, world-class whites of Italy. Even if it doesn't carry the Soave Classico appellation, it is easily among the best Soave Classicos there are.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#93 Post by Dennis Atick »

Otto Forsberg wrote: April 8th, 2021, 4:57 am
Dennis Atick wrote: April 8th, 2021, 3:54 am This stuff was pretty fantastic last night.
https://www.suavia.it/wines/monte-carbonare/
Suavia is among my favorite Soave producers, but while Monte Carbonare is a great wine in its own right, I think it has always played the second fiddle in Suavia's range. I've had Suavia wines many times and consistently Massifitti, their 100% Trebbiano di Soave (a wine I already mentioned in post #3) has been the most impressive effort in the whole range.

On my palate, Monte Carbonare has always come across as somewhat softer, fruitier and more voluptuous in style, while Massifitti has exhibited much better its volcanic minerality, impressive structure and more focused fruit. Both these wines are simply outstanding, but in my books only Massifitti is really among some of the greatest, world-class whites of Italy. Even if it doesn't carry the Soave Classico appellation, it is easily among the best Soave Classicos there are.
Thanks, Otto. I've read the Massifitti is where it's really at. I was looking for more of the "volcanic minerality" in the MC. Maybe it's 18 but I wouldn't say too voluptuous. It is rather edgy and lean right now. Felt very young, like it needs some time to really show more.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#94 Post by Otto Forsberg »

Dennis Atick wrote: April 8th, 2021, 5:26 am Thanks, Otto. I've read the Massifitti is where it's really at. I was looking for more of the "volcanic minerality" in the MC. Maybe it's 18 but I wouldn't say too voluptuous. It is rather edgy and lean right now. Felt very young, like it needs some time to really show more.
Well, I had the 2018 just two months ago and it was exactly like I remembered Monte Carbonare should be. I'm not saying it is a very voluptuous wine, just quite fruity - in its youth even quite tropical - and voluptuous compared to the more mineral Massifitti. I definitely wouldn't describe it edgy or lean, but it is certainly a fresh and crunchy wine. And I agree fully that it feels very young and just like virtually all Suavia wines, it really needs time. These wines never show their best in their youth, but instead only after 5-10 years.

FWIW, here's my TN on 2018:
  • 2018 Suavia Soave Classico Monte Carbonare - Italy, Veneto, Soave Classico (6.2.2021)
    100% Garganega from a vineyard planted on the volcanic soils of Monte Carbonare, located in the heart of the Soave Classico appellation. Aged for 15 months sur lie in stainless steel. 12,5% alcohol.

    Youthful, rather pale yellow color with bright greenish highlights. Quite big, fragrant and rather tropical nose with aromas of apricots, mango, some apple jam, light candied notes of gummi bear, a little bit of grassy greenness and a hint of stony minerality. The wine is youthful - almost primary - and very juicy on the palate with a medium-to-moderately full body. Crisp flavors of ripe white peach and crunchy gooseberries, some green banana tones, a little bit of grassy herbal character, light fruity notes of golden apple and cantaloupe, a candied hint of gummi candies and a touch of something slightly gaseous or smoky that might be either SO2 or some volcanic character. The fresh, moderately high acidity keeps the wine nicely in balance. There seemed to be a touch of CO2 as well, but it blew off very quickly. The finish is fresh, lively and rather tropical with lengthy flavors of sweet-toned peachy fruit and apricots, some mango, light grassy tones, a little bit of unripe banana and a hint of stony minerality.

    A lovely, fresh and nuanced single-vineyard Soave. Although a high-quality wine in itself, this still doesn't manage to reach the heights of Suavia's other varietal single-vineyard wine, the Massifitti made from Trebbiano di Soave. This Monte Carbonare gets close, but I still prefer the brighter, leaner and more mineral expression of Massifitti to Monte Carbonare's bigger, more tropical and slightly voluptuous style. It feels as though Monte Carbonare is made to impress, while Massifitti is the one with class and finesse. Nevertheless, this is a very enjoyable and well-made wine. Most likely it is just all too youthful at the moment and will tone a bit as it ages and drops its baby fat. I'd let the wine wait for at least another 3-4 years. (89 pts.)
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#95 Post by Mikael OB »

Tim Heaton wrote: March 29th, 2021, 2:22 pm Selvadolce - Aris is a genius
Walter Mattoni - crazy, super fun, super talented grower/winemaker
Paolo/Gianpiero Bea - no introduction necessary

- whites, for sure, but also the reds from these producer/growers

Also, fwiw, agree with Otto re: Pecorino's heights/potential. Not too much more than Passerina's, in my experience. Sure, some can be quite nice, but highly memorable? Not so much.
Regarding pecorino - why, related to the grape or lack of ambition of most winemakers? I mean the regions growing pecorino has for a long time been focused on quantity and low prices rather than quality.

Did you try Tiberio or Pepe’s bottling? Curious to hear your thoughts if you did or after trying.

If not for a few dedicated producers we still think a lot less about trebbiano (abbruzzese).
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#96 Post by Joshua Kates »

Yes, thanks as well--for these and others; to be honest, they fall on and off my screen, depending on when I encounter or am offered them. Pieropan and a couple of others are regular buys.
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Re: Your Top 5 Italian White Wines

#97 Post by Alexander Smith »

Thoughts on Ornellaia Bianco?
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