Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

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Gaudissabois Johan
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Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#1 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Friends,

Is there really a difference between "Richebourg sous Veroilles" and the "real" Richebourg? One time wine maker at Hudelot-Noellat's Pierre Nawrocki was convinced so. Was it because his boss owned Richebourg proper? Still, I have my doubts. I thought to detect a difference between Richebourgs by Jean Gros, Anne Gros (all Veroilles) and the ones by say HN, Grivot, Thibault Liger Belair and Leroy (I had the 88,89,90,91,92 and 93 from Lalou when I was a customer there) ). Somehow the latter ones turned out to be "fuller", or "richer" if you will, "more complete versions of the same ((?) wine. Or am I imagining things like the late great John Lennon wanted us to.....Looking forward to your remarks...


SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#2 Post by Peter Chiu »

Johan....hmm. You did not give me enough data to make a proper guess.

I need the harvest dates of each vintage when Leroy picked their grapes and how long did they finished the harest. As the grapes in sous Veoilles ( ou Les Veroilles ) needs to harvest 2 to 3 days later than the grapes in the proper Richebourg. Beside....Leroy always makes her wines - regardless where - quite full. [cheers.gif]

Did you do some march-tastings of Richebourg from DRC vs Leroy ? For example form em vintage 1995 - single blind ? [wink.gif]

Is there any reason for you to believe what Pierre Nawrocki said is true ? Is he being too honest ?



Yours truly :

Peter Chiu blush .

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#3 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Dear Peter,

What Nawrocki tried to say was that there was a clear difference in terroir. He thought it was unfair for VEROILLES to be callled RICHEBOURG. But of course the one sold by HN was and still is RICHEBOURG PROPER so he may have been biased..

SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#4 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

https://winehog.org/richebourg-history- ... ers-10692/

I think you’re imagining things.

I think the AF Gros richebourg from 15-16 are among the best made, and they’re heavily veroilles. DRC is about 25/75 or 1/3-2/3.

I would not be surprised if ppl picked AF gros over drc blind in 15-16.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#5 Post by Peter Chiu »

Johan....thanks for the reply. Your post made me curious and I do some readings.

Michael - thanks for the link. It is an interesting read of the history of..... Richebourg .... back in 1924.

Beside the difference in harvesting date, I also believe the size of Richeboug is not that big ( unlike CdV ) to make a significant difference. I agree with Michael's
comment.

Here is what M. Kramer said about Appellation ( and the authenticity ) : a world of made is not a world of born.

Appellation was created not without the influence of commercial reason - for example : grapes from the liex-dit Clos de Beze has the option to be labeled under the following 2 AC : (1) Les Chambertin Grand Cru or (2) Chambertin-Clos de Beze Grand Cru .

Whereas the grapes from the lieu-dit Chambertin has only one option to be labeled under AC Les Chambertin Grand Cru ( and has no right to be labeled under the AC - Chambertin-Clos de Beze Grand cru.

Bossuet said : **the greatest disorder of the mind is to believe things as they are because Peter Chiu wish them to be so.....**

PS - Johan : please take note that my last sentence is not aim at you or anyone - but rather just a general observation ....

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#6 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Dear Peter,

No offense taken. Thank you for your reply. I posted the topic because in my opinion no journalist ever wrote about whether it was justified to upgrade VEROILLEs to RICHEBOURG. We only learn that "sous" became "ou". Interesting semantics. But what about the quality of the wine....???
SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#7 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

Gaudissabois Johan wrote: March 14th, 2021, 4:11 am Dear Peter,

No offense taken. Thank you for your reply. I posted the topic because in my opinion no journalist ever wrote about whether it was justified to upgrade VEROILLEs to RICHEBOURG. We only learn that "sous" became "ou". Interesting semantics. But what about the quality of the wine....???
SINCERELY JOHAN
Did you read the article linked?

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#8 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Dear Michael,

Thank you for answering once again. And I did read the article written by Steen. I am a subscriber to WINEHOG. He answers the issue whether the two are equal quality wise. But based on what? As I remember it Steen has not that much experience in tasting RICHEBOURGS. Not in the same way Clive Coates had, or Sarah Marsh, or Meadows or for that matter R Parker. And they never touched the issue. Still, much obliged for reminding me of the fact that STEEN did try. His conclusion : not a significant difference quality wise.

SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#9 Post by Peter Chiu »

****But what about the quality of the wine....???****

I assume the quality of the wine means the wine of AC : RichebouRg Grand Cru ( as a whole ).

Hmmm....I do not remember the date nor the place, and I do not remember the name of the lady....all I remember was : the bottle was Chambertin.

For me....Richebourg is *too rich [wink.gif] * and it is not as *complete* as a Chambertin - year-in and year-out.

I was told Napoleon lost the battle of Waterloo because he did not drink a Chambertin the night before.

For Richeboug...I only had the DRC, Leory and the Gros family. I went past the journey for Burgundy, so......when it is 4 to 5bottles for the price of 1, I much prefer AF Gros.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#10 Post by Robert Sand »

Peter Chiu wrote: March 14th, 2021, 7:08 am ****But what about the quality of the wine....???***


For Richeboug...I only had the DRC, Leory and the Gros family. I went past the journey for Burgundy, so......when it is 4 to 5bottles for the price of 1, I much prefer AF Gros.
Hm, I haven´t tasted AF Gros Richebourg since 2007, but had many older vintages (not all), and I ve been kind of underwhelmed ... no match to the Richebourgs by Jean Gros (made up to 1995, before the parcel went to AF Gros), and also not compared to Anne Gros, Hudelot-Noellat, Meo-Camuzet and Grivot (when the latter wasn´t corked).
Might be that AF has improved, though ...

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#11 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

Robert Sand wrote: March 19th, 2021, 3:49 am
Peter Chiu wrote: March 14th, 2021, 7:08 am ****But what about the quality of the wine....???***


For Richeboug...I only had the DRC, Leory and the Gros family. I went past the journey for Burgundy, so......when it is 4 to 5bottles for the price of 1, I much prefer AF Gros.
Hm, I haven´t tasted AF Gros Richebourg since 2007, but had many older vintages (not all), and I ve been kind of underwhelmed ... no match to the Richebourgs by Jean Gros (made up to 1995, before the parcel went to AF Gros), and also not compared to Anne Gros, Hudelot-Noellat, Meo-Camuzet and Grivot (when the latter wasn´t corked).
Might be that AF has improved, though ...
The 15-16 AF gros are spectacular.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#12 Post by Peter Chiu »

Robert Sand wrote: March 19th, 2021, 3:49 am
Peter Chiu wrote: March 14th, 2021, 7:08 am ****But what about the quality of the wine....???***


For Richeboug...I only had the DRC, Leory and the Gros family. I went past the journey for Burgundy, so......when it is 4 to 5bottles for the price of 1, I much prefer AF Gros.
Hm, I haven´t tasted AF Gros Richebourg since 2007, but had many older vintages (not all), and I ve been kind of underwhelmed ... no match to the Richebourgs by Jean Gros (made up to 1995, before the parcel went to AF Gros), and also not compared to Anne Gros, Hudelot-Noellat, Meo-Camuzet and Grivot (when the latter wasn´t corked).
Might be that AF has improved, though ...
Thank you for your opinion of your experience of AF Gros Richeboug ( prior to 2007 ) - and that they are no match with Richebourgs by Jean Gros ( made up to 1995).

To understand the small details of the Gros family - for example who owns which and who made what ...is not a small task. There is a possibility that the Richebourg of AF Gros and that of Jean Gros ....were made by the same wine maker.

I have no experience of Ricbebourg by H-Noellat, Meo-Camuzet and Grivot. I am not certain but most like H-N and M-Camuzet were not available in Quebec and the Grivot was too pricey for me if it was released here. For example Grivot Richebourg is now at around CA $1700.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#13 Post by A Songeur »

Only Richebourg I ever had is Jean Gros 1987 (not a great vintage) a year or 2 ago.... An absolutely fabulous wine! (opened by a friend...). Have 5 bottles locked away (Grivot 2009, 2010 2011).
Antoine

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#14 Post by Peter Chiu »

Antoine.....Richebourg is fabulous. Most likely due to its *richness* which absolutely overwhelmed you and that you were at awe by her [wow.gif] , specially if it was your first encounter with her.

Did your experience remind you of meeting a movie star ( her name is : Sophia ) and that she gave you a big, big hug !! flirtysmile

No denying from me as I felt the same when I did a matching tasting of the Richebourg 1995 from DRC and Leroy in the year 2000.

That being said was the 1987 Richebourg ...*complete* though [whistle.gif] ?

When you will be opening your Grivot 2009, 2010 - could you try to arrange and do a match-tasting alongside with Damoy Chambertin of the same vintage year ? [pillow-fight.gif]

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#15 Post by A Songeur »

It had quite a lot: superb nose, light but rich and complex, a ballerina on the palate (I prefer them to Movie stars...) but cannot compare withD RC Leroy.
I believe I will open a 2009 (I have 3) in a few years time...say 2024-2025... happy to organise something ... but Damoy?... really?
(by the way, Claude Kolm said it was a star of the vintage and was not surprised it was so good after all these years...
Antoine

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#16 Post by Peter Chiu »

Domiane Pierre Damoy completely changed - to the better - since around 1992 when the new Pierre took over from his uncle Jacques when Jacques lost his son and wife around that time. They own one third of CdBeze and also own 0.49 ha Chambertin. They are the grapes suppliers to many CdBeze.

I got more into Damoy after I read from Bill's book ( Mr. Nansan ). Bill is right in proclaiming his love all many versions of CdBese ( by Pierre Damoy ) as well as the reds.

Same reviews by Remington Norman - in his third Edition of : The great Domains of Burgundy. Norman concluded by saying that the new Pierre ....has to be one of the lucky superstars - of the new generation - due to the holdings of his family.

I sincerely believe his Clos Tamisot ( a monopole of 1.45 ha - with vines planned in 1922-45 ) should be ...the most prefer (= Peter chiu's best ) ...village wine in Gevrey.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#17 Post by Peter Chiu »

A Songeur wrote: March 19th, 2021, 8:40 am It had quite a lot: superb nose, light but rich and complex, a ballerina on the palate (I prefer them to Movie stars...) but cannot compare withD RC Leroy.
I believe I will open a 2009 (I have 3) in a few years time...say 2024-2025... happy to organise something ... but Damoy?... really?
(by the way, Claude Kolm said it was a star of the vintage and was not surprised it was so good after all these years...
Thanks ....for the additional TNs ....which I have no doubt that they are correctly described.

Richebourg has all the great signs of top burgundy..when opened at the right moment ...it will also show ...its complexity ( which makes one go back again and again to the glass all the evening) and also which is a requirement - in my view - for a wine to be considered : GREAT.

You are also right about matching they style ( & weight of the wine ) between Gros Richeboughs with that from ...DRC and/or Leroy. So, Antoine, if I understood correctly : you much prefer a ballerina dancing on your tongue instead of a movie star giving a big hug even thought her name is Sophia [scratch.gif] !!
Last edited by Peter Chiu on March 19th, 2021, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#18 Post by A Songeur »

I'll also take the big hug... and don't forget ballerinas can be quite steely... a physical job and they train a lot!
Antoine

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#19 Post by Robert Sand »

Peter Chiu wrote: March 19th, 2021, 6:42 am
Robert Sand wrote: March 19th, 2021, 3:49 am
Peter Chiu wrote: March 14th, 2021, 7:08 am ****But what about the quality of the wine....???***


For Richeboug...I only had the DRC, Leory and the Gros family. I went past the journey for Burgundy, so......when it is 4 to 5bottles for the price of 1, I much prefer AF Gros.
Hm, I haven´t tasted AF Gros Richebourg since 2007, but had many older vintages (not all), and I ve been kind of underwhelmed ... no match to the Richebourgs by Jean Gros (made up to 1995, before the parcel went to AF Gros), and also not compared to Anne Gros, Hudelot-Noellat, Meo-Camuzet and Grivot (when the latter wasn´t corked).
Might be that AF has improved, though ...
Thank you for your opinion of your experience of AF Gros Richeboug ( prior to 2007 ) - and that they are no match with Richebourgs by Jean Gros ( made up to 1995).

To understand the small details of the Gros family - for example who owns which and who made what ...is not a small task. There is a possibility that the Richebourg of AF Gros and that of Jean Gros ....were made by the same wine maker.

I have no experience of Ricbebourg by H-Noellat, Meo-Camuzet and Grivot. I am not certain but most like H-N and M-Camuzet were not available in Quebec and the Grivot was too pricey for me if it was released here. For example Grivot Richebourg is now at around CA $1700.
No, Jean Gros' wines were made by Michel Gros, and A F Gros' (sister of Michel) is made by her husband Francois Parent, Rb from 1996 onwards.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#20 Post by Peter Chiu »

Your descriptiveness of the Richebourg as a ballerina ......was perhaps it was from a one star vintage and also of its age.

Hopefully your encounter of Grivot Richebourg 2009 in 2024 ( at age 15 ) will most likely . [dance-clap.gif] ...met my description of a big hug from Sophia.

There is also a possibility that if you open Grivot Richebourg 2011 in 2031 ( at age 20 )....will most like .....met your description of a ballerina.

Who knows ? [scratch.gif]

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#21 Post by Peter Chiu »

***No, Jean Gros' wines were made by Michel Gros, and A F Gros' (sister of Michel) is made by her husband Francois Parent, Rb from 1996 onwards.***

Robert - you are right that Michel Gros, fresh from finishing school in 1975, took over the Gros family and also the wine maker for Domaine Jean Gros - until the Domaine Jean was split into 3 in 1995. You are also right that A.F. Gros was made by Anne-Francoiss Gros' husband Mr. Francois Parent .....starting in vintage 1996.

I checked my wine inventory. I own many bottles of Richebourg by A.F. Gros vintage 1996 but I could remember if there was any difference between A.F. Gros and by Domaine Jean Gros or not. It was also the last time I bought Richebourg from Gros family.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#22 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Friends,

I had the 1995 RICHEBOURG by Jean Gros years ago and it was totally disappointing.....Perhaps I drank it too soon....Anne Gros' version was much better. So was the RICHEBOURG made by ETIENNE GRIVOT. The version made by DRC was wonderful last year (2020) but you had to give it that many years. Drunk in 2005 it did not sing at all.

SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#23 Post by Josh Najjar »

A Songeur wrote: March 19th, 2021, 7:55 am Only Richebourg I ever had is Jean Gros 1987 (not a great vintage) a year or 2 ago.... An absolutely fabulous wine! (opened by a friend...). Have 5 bottles locked away (Grivot 2009, 2010 2011).
Funny you said that. A 1987 Jean Gros Richebourg, that I drank not long after release, may be the greatest Burgundy I've ever tasted, and I say this after 35 years of drinking great Burgundies.
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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#24 Post by Peter Chiu »

Dear Berserkers:

Some years ago, during my early wine life and when I was visiting Burgundy, I stopped in the village of Gervey. I over heard the following conversation between two vigorons there : Oh...no....what are you talking about ? Richebourg is too rich; RC is too perfect; LT is too exotic; Musigny is too farfume; and RStV...is too soft and well .....only our beloved Chambertin is a complete wine. pileon [wink.gif]

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#25 Post by Peter Chiu »

Josh Najjar wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 2:59 pm
A Songeur wrote: March 19th, 2021, 7:55 am Only Richebourg I ever had is Jean Gros 1987 (not a great vintage) a year or 2 ago.... An absolutely fabulous wine! (opened by a friend...). Have 5 bottles locked away (Grivot 2009, 2010 2011).
Funny you said that. A 1997 Jean Gros Richebourg, that I drank not long after release, may be the greatest Burgundy I've ever tasted, and I say this after 35 years of drinking great Burgundies.
Josh...with your long long experience and reading many of your TNs... I have no doubt of your statement.

Here are some important data : the wine was from a not so great vintage year ( 1997 ) and the wine was young when you enjoyed it ( not long after release ). So basically....there is no great wine only bottle. There is no sure guarantee of anything....with Burgundy wines in general. [cheers.gif]

The more I drunk burgundy.....the more I realize QPR is my first most important fact of purchasing red burgundy for enjoyment. [highfive.gif]

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#26 Post by billnanson »

Peter Chiu wrote: March 23rd, 2021, 7:20 am
Josh Najjar wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 2:59 pm
A Songeur wrote: March 19th, 2021, 7:55 am Only Richebourg I ever had is Jean Gros 1987 (not a great vintage) a year or 2 ago.... An absolutely fabulous wine! (opened by a friend...). Have 5 bottles locked away (Grivot 2009, 2010 2011).
Funny you said that. A 1997 Jean Gros Richebourg, that I drank not long after release, may be the greatest Burgundy I've ever tasted, and I say this after 35 years of drinking great Burgundies.
Josh...with your long long experience and reading many of your TNs... I have no doubt of your statement.

Here are some important data : the wine was from a not so great vintage year ( 1997 ) and the wine was young when you enjoyed it ( not long after release ). So basically....there is no great wine only bottle. There is no sure guarantee of anything....with Burgundy wines in general. [cheers.gif]

The more I drunk burgundy.....the more I realize QPR is my first most important fact of purchasing red burgundy for enjoyment. [highfive.gif]
LOL - and the worst Richebourg I ever tasted was also a 97 - it was just as bad 5 years later - from another 'Jean' or maybe I should say an Etienne...
Yet the 1996, last year, was great, great, great...
Burgundy Report - online since 2002...

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#27 Post by Robert Sand »

Josh Najjar wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 2:59 pm
A Songeur wrote: March 19th, 2021, 7:55 am Only Richebourg I ever had is Jean Gros 1987 (not a great vintage) a year or 2 ago.... An absolutely fabulous wine! (opened by a friend...). Have 5 bottles locked away (Grivot 2009, 2010 2011).
Funny you said that. A 1997 Jean Gros Richebourg, that I drank not long after release, may be the greatest Burgundy I've ever tasted, and I say this after 35 years of drinking great Burgundies.
I wonder: 1997 Jean GROS Richebourg? There isn´t any.
Was it a typo - and you meant 1987? (BTW: a great wine, not only for the vintage)

The Jean Gros Richebourg parcel went to A.F.Gros in 1996 (in order to keep the 1er Cru Clos des Reas a monopole) - the domaine Jean Gros ceased to exist after 1995, it was Michel Gros afterwards, but there was no Richebourg anymore.
[scratch.gif]

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#28 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Friends,

I once had the 87 MONGEARD-MUGNERET RICHEBOURG (and I had many bottles off it-all wonderful) and it was truly great and probably the best I had from this not-so-consistent domaine. Was 87 really not good? Better than the much applauded 88 chez MONGEARD....
SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#29 Post by Howard Cooper »

Gaudissabois Johan wrote: March 14th, 2021, 6:57 am Dear Michael,

Thank you for answering once again. And I did read the article written by Steen. I am a subscriber to WINEHOG. He answers the issue whether the two are equal quality wise. But based on what? As I remember it Steen has not that much experience in tasting RICHEBOURGS. Not in the same way Clive Coates had, or Sarah Marsh, or Meadows or for that matter R Parker. And they never touched the issue. Still, much obliged for reminding me of the fact that STEEN did try. His conclusion : not a significant difference quality wise.

SINCERELY JOHAN
Does anyone with holdings in both bottle them separately? If not, I have to assume that they don't believe there are significant enough differences.
Howard

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#30 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Dear Howard,

You could be right. However, who has decent enough holdings in both to even consider bottling them separately???? HN, Grivot, Liger Belair, Mongeard, DRC, LEROY all have RICHEBOURG proper if I am not misstaken whereas the GROS family has the lion's share all in VEROILLES. Still, a very interesting way of looking at it.

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#31 Post by A Songeur »

Jean Gros Rchebourg 1987 was stellar
Antoine

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#32 Post by Peter Chiu »

Gaudissabois Johan wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:04 am Dear Howard,

You could be right. However, who has decent enough holdings in both to even consider bottling them separately???? HN, Grivot, Liger Belair, Mongeard, DRC, LEROY all have RICHEBOURG proper if I am not misstaken whereas the GROS family has the lion's share all in VEROILLES. Still, a very interesting way of looking at it.
I just took a close look at the maps in Michael's link. You are right. Gros family owns the lion share in Veroilles. The other are : Bichot, DRC, Cmauzet ( who also owns a very, very tiny parcel in the Richebourg-proper. DRC also owns lion share in Richebourg-proper. Logically guessing, DRC could only be the one who could elerage them separately. Leory's 2 parcels are all in the Richebourg-proper.

While a comparative tasting of bottles of wine, if possible, from the Richebourg-proper and veroilles from the same Domaine and same vintage year - there are still variable, for example vine-age. [truce.gif]

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#33 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Friends,

Another reason for not bottling Richebourg and Veroilles separately may be the fact that RICHEBOURG has built up an enormous reputation as a householdname. A bottle labelled "VEROILLES (s)ou(s) RICHEBOURG" would not fetch the same price. So this would not be even considered. Feel free to disagree...
SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#34 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

Gaudissabois Johan wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:04 am Dear Howard,

You could be right. However, who has decent enough holdings in both to even consider bottling them separately???? HN, Grivot, Liger Belair, Mongeard, DRC, LEROY all have RICHEBOURG proper if I am not misstaken whereas the GROS family has the lion's share all in VEROILLES. Still, a very interesting way of looking at it.
You are mistaken. DRC has the largest holdings in both richebourg and Veroilles.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#35 Post by TGigante »

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 5:12 am
Gaudissabois Johan wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:04 am Dear Howard,

You could be right. However, who has decent enough holdings in both to even consider bottling them separately???? HN, Grivot, Liger Belair, Mongeard, DRC, LEROY all have RICHEBOURG proper if I am not misstaken whereas the GROS family has the lion's share all in VEROILLES. Still, a very interesting way of looking at it.
You are mistaken. DRC has the largest holdings in both richebourg and Veroilles.
Michael - on your link with the plot map, it looks like the 3 Gros properties combined in Veroilles exceed the size of DRC in Veroilles. Optical illusion?
Cheers,
Tony

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#36 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

It could be but the largest single holder in both properties is DRC.

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#37 Post by Josh Najjar »

Peter Chiu wrote: March 23rd, 2021, 7:20 am
Josh Najjar wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 2:59 pm
A Songeur wrote: March 19th, 2021, 7:55 am Only Richebourg I ever had is Jean Gros 1987 (not a great vintage) a year or 2 ago.... An absolutely fabulous wine! (opened by a friend...). Have 5 bottles locked away (Grivot 2009, 2010 2011).
Funny you said that. A 1997 Jean Gros Richebourg, that I drank not long after release, may be the greatest Burgundy I've ever tasted, and I say this after 35 years of drinking great Burgundies.
Josh...with your long long experience and reading many of your TNs... I have no doubt of your statement.

Here are some important data : the wine was from a not so great vintage year ( 1997 ) and the wine was young when you enjoyed it ( not long after release ). So basically....there is no great wine only bottle. There is no sure guarantee of anything....with Burgundy wines in general. [cheers.gif]

The more I drunk burgundy.....the more I realize QPR is my first most important fact of purchasing red burgundy for enjoyment. [highfive.gif]

Hi Peter,

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant 1987 J Gros - Richebourg ! Still, your comments ring true..

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#38 Post by Peter Chiu »

Josh.....thanks for the clarification and your agreement ....

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#39 Post by A Songeur »

I posted about this wine on another wine geeks site and Claude Kolm confirmed Richebourg 1987 was already fabulous when much younger and he was happy it was apparently still performing... so this wine was surely a success...
Antoine

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#40 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Friends,

I remember that the great Robert Parker was equally excited about the 87 Jean Gros RICHEBOURG. He maybe exaggerated a bit when he preferred the whole vintage to the much hyped 88 vintage but in many cases he was right. (see the MONGEARD-MUGNERET RICHEBOURg as wel...). When he got it right, we ought to give him his dues..Ain't that right?

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#41 Post by Peter Chiu »

Baseball hitter .....is allowed to be out after 3 strikes. newhere

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#42 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Dear Peter,

I am a basketball fan. Hate baseball......Do not understand it for one bit (that's why)....the sport is barely known over here and the same goes for American football.
SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Richebourg and Richebourg sous Veroilles

#43 Post by Peter Chiu »

Johan....sorry my joke did not make any sense to you.

A base ball player - when it is his turn to play - he is allowed to miss hitting the ball with his bate twice (when and if the ball threw at him) is within the striking zone. If he misses to hit the ball the third time....is out ( = not allowed to play for his at -bate ).

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