ATTN CANADIANS: Wine Auctions in Canada!

I just saw this press release from IronGate saying that they are going to be doing online wine auctions in Canada based out of Calgary. Anyone have any experience with IronGate previously? This seems like a potential hole in my wallet is forming.

A hole in your wallet is correct. They operate a branch out of Buffalo NY. The retail prices for wines they possess is quite substantial. I suspect that the source of many of these wines are through the SAQ stores in Ontario. Lucky Canadians win the lottery to buy, at an artificially low price through the government system, then drive over the border to offer Rousseau/Roumier/DRC to Irongate as a buyer…then they resell to price insensitive US customers. Everybody wins…nobody talks. Omerta.

Canadians should be used to this. Where I live during prohibition there were quiet little boat rides Canadians would take across lake Erie to supply thirsty US customers with booze. Isn’t it great when the government has to protect us from unfettered access to alcohol?

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Sounds like an intresting racket!

Warren is a good guy with a long history in the industry and appears to have figured out a way to make this work, which couldn’t have been easy given the red-tape and archaic laws. Alberta is a great choice given their taxes and more progressive position on alc sales/distribution.
Dennis - you’re close. Ontario has the LCBO (Quebec is SAQ). The issue is more with the Alcohol & Gaming commission in Ontario which licences auctions and who can legally sell wine, so only charity auctions or once the LCBO realized they could both make some profit, but more importantly control the process. These LCBO organized auctions in assoc with a local auction house, have seen the quality of lots lessen over time as more of the better wines go elsewhere for sale.

The wines aren’t neccessarily all from the LCBO, as most of us have wine bought out of province, but I’m sure a lot are from Ontarians with few options to unload wine legally. Canada Revenue changed how wine values can be estimated in the past few years, which makes the charity route less desirable for the donor.
Also, it isn’t that the gov’t offers artificially low costs to wines, it’s that most provinces don’t follow the typical US 3 tier system, so some looks more attractive in context, the vast majority is the opposite.

Thanks for the clarification…of course the SAQ is Quebec…just a brain malfunction. I can relate to the simplicity of your system, much like the LCB in Pennsylvania [snort.gif]

We also occasionally here in PA get decent prices on hard to find and allocated wines, at least for a short while until the systems adjust. I was buying Dujac at very attractive prices for a period of time through the PLCB, now they have become too desirable and even the LCB cannot source them anymore.

At least when we legalize weed in a few months in Pennsylvania, the distribution system will be privatized. Thank god alcohol will still be safely managed by our government elected officials…

Oh what a wonderful simple system we all live in!

PS. Quebec is kind of like the Texas of Canada in some ways. They do like to do things their own way and don’t speak the same language as the rest of the country [cheers.gif]

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I love Quebec. Feel so much more relaxed when I visit. Considering retiring there in time.
In the ongoing LCBO gong show - special offer of Petrus came out this am.
2010 750ml for …$9200. [snort.gif]

Sorry, not the appropriate forum for the short rant below:
Great idea! IF… you are healthy and plan on never going through the health care system!

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Yes, this is great news for us! As mentioned Irongate is run by good folks and I’ll happily do business with them again in this new format.

What’s the experience with shipping? Do you get hit with any LCBO fees when shipping to Ontario?

No, the LCBO has zero involvement. Same as if you buy wine in AB and have it shipped here.
Warren is bulk shipping to larger CDN cities, so you don’t have to pay for bringing it into Toronto at least.

You can’t buy wine in Alberta (or anywhere else in Canada or internationally) and ship it to Ontario…

Uhh, OK.

I’ve bought from their retail (online) store before for US delivery. The service was great, everything arrived in great condition, highly recommend. The prices may be a little hit and miss but I found a few gems that I thought were well priced.

*****You can’t buy wine in Alberta (or anywhere else in Canada or internationally) and ship it to Ontario…M@tt R0bs0n ****

Hmmmm…Internationally ?

The Ontario Provincial Government may not do something; but what about the Custom Department which is ran by the Federal Government.

When I came back from Spain after my vacation, I need to pay the taxes for the bottles which are over the allowable limit.

I said can’t and ship.

You could drive to Alberta or BC, buy wine, and bring it back with you (accompanied) by plane or car or train without issues.

You could fly to Spain, France or California, buy wine, and fly it back into Ontario (accompanied) and pay the 70+% tax if you bring back more than your allowed 2 bottles.

You can’t legally ship unaccompanied wine into Ontario outside the “authority” of the LCBO’s import program or through LCBO private ordering. If you do ship unaccompanied wine from outside Canada, it has to be consigned to an cleared through the LCBO. They charge over 100% markup on those bottles of wine. I don’t know how they would enforce this inter-provincially, but its still illegal. That is why all of the liquor stores in Alberta stopped shipping outside Alberta last year.

I can only assume there is some kind of loophole as Iron Gate is not actually shipping the wine. When you win an auction, they transfer the ownership to you and put you in contact with a 3rd party to arrange shipping.

Iron Gate said: “We are not involved with the shipping process but we do work with a company called Calgary Ship to help make arrangements on your behalf. Please contact the LCBO for up to date tax regulations on inter-provincial alcohol shipping.”

I think its all total BS but I am trying to find out what exactly to expect if I were to win something.

Your are right. I missed read your message and did not realize it. Sorry…for my mistake.

Thanks for the additional and very detailed information - specially 70% tax.

If I remembered right …LCBO used to do some auctions in the past - what happened ?

I love these lines :

*****Iron Gate said: “We are not involved with the shipping process but we do work with a company called Calgary Ship to help make arrangements on your behalf. Please contact the LCBO for up to date tax regulations on inter-provincial alcohol shipping.”

Canadian wineries/retailers/auction houses ship wine to various provinces all the time. Maybe every customer pays provincial taxes and import fees on them. Maybe not. Just saying…

Call the shipping company (or a few shipping companies). Let them know where you stand on this. Act accordingly.

Good luck on the auction! Or what do we say for wine auctions? Break a bottle?

*****Lucky Canadians win the lottery to buy, at an artificially low price through the government system, then drive over the border to offer Rousseau/Roumier/DRC to Irongate as a buyer…then they resell to price insensitive US customers. Everybody wins…nobody talks. Omerta. ****

The artificially ( repeat: artificially) low price is indeed run by the governments. It applies to all the wine at same rate.

Years ago, you could buy DRC/Rousseau as many bottles as you wish. No need for lottery… newhere

You could buy a house back then as well … champagne.gif

Most Okanagan wineries are shipping to Ontario. Black hills (I think it was, one of them anyway) had some interesting language to the effect that one was taking delivery at the winery. No idea of the effectiveness of that. Ontario has had draft regulation to liberalise inter provincial shipments that has twice been deferred, no reason given.

I have friends who deal with Irongate a lot and they seem very happy, I’ve had a few bottles and concur.

I’m no lawyer but it seems to me it’s a legal quagmire especially given the conflicting federal and provincial jurisdictions and supposed freedom of inter provincial trade.

The KGBO is a mess, with zero interest in customer service. For example they thought it would be ok to shut down one of their online shopping sites (yes, of course they have two systems for different products that don’t talk to each other ) for maintenance FOR TWO FULL DAYS. Their last classics release / lottery the web site was about an hour late coming online. The last several releases have almost as many wines not available / shipped late as are actually available. Life is short so I should stop my rant.

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