Napa vs Washington (State)

I’ve read multiple articles recently on how the state of Washington may be one of the most underappreciated wine regions, and that their Bordeaux variety wines have become world class. Like many, cabernet sauvignon is my wife & I’s favorite, with other red varieties occasionally as well. Most of our purchases tend to be from Napa & Sonoma - but not always. Maybe my search capabilities are poor (certainly possible) but I could not find a single thread title contrasting/comparing Napa to Washington wines.

Has anyone done any blind taste tests between these? For example, if when blinded a $40 Washington wine is as good as a $75 Napa cab, then I should change my focus for my daily drinkers. We probably go through about 5 bottles a week. I’m not really looking at wines priced the same. I know that there are some expensive wines out of Washington as well, but I’m really interested in if the Washington cabs/blends can punch above their price when compared to the most highly regarded regions in California. I don’t need to drink Napa/Sonoma cabs just because they are Napa/Sonoma cabs, if there are other regions in America that are truly just as good (and a better bargain.)

I’m happy to continue to support small, premium wineries in Napa, and I’m on half a dozen lists - but those $100 and up bottles are not daily drinkers for me. (I’m not too interested in French wines - regardless of quality/value - this is a question regarding different regions in the USA)

Thanks.

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We visited Walla Walla in 2010 and were astounded how good the reds were and how they could stand their ground vs. Napa wines at 2x the price. Cab Suav and Franc. We actually started buying Cabernet Sauvingon again. Quite impressed with the Long Shadows wines.

It’s been a decade but we once did a Napa Vs Washington blind tasting w friends. 4 bottles, 2 from each region, Trefethen was only Napa wine I remember, our wine were Fidelitas Cab and a $30 blend from Steppe Cellars in Washington and it was WOTN. Sadly that winery no longer exists.

Today, I own lots of Wa cabs and blends, a few from Napa. I buy from a couple of my favorites in my neighborhood still and with club prices pay $ 30-40. I would share those names but I am sworn to secrecy. Ok I give, JB Neufeld and Cultura wineries. Other favorites over time are Rasa, Andrew Will, Seven Hills, Fidelitas, Cooper, Adams Bench, Hightower. I think every wino in Washington has their favorites.

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I think generally that WA reds under $60 equal or beat Napa. In the $30-40 range they do even better, still. And I make Napa wine! It seems in Napa for Bordeaux Reds, Mike Smith and Aaron Pott and Thomas Brown make excellent Napa Cab blends at the $75 pricepoint. But when I compare the Napa $30-40 BDX-styled reds to those I tasted when I went to WA, our Northwest buddies seemed to have so many more good options. And for Merlot blends can compete with us at any price. I tell people who want a really good, ageable Napa wine for under $50 to go get Lagier Meredith Syrah, at $48. It ain’t Cab, but it ages as well or better, is made by great people and has a lonnnnng history of quality.

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There’s good stuff in Washington. They push the envelope like Napa for the most part, especially in the Walla Walla. The prices are better for a very strong reason- the demand is not there (save for Cayuse). That doesnt mean the quality isn’t there. Some make excellent wines that would berry much compete with Napa wines at twice the price- but that’s more just highlighting how ridiculous power of the Napa Valley brand.

I don’t see Washington or the Walla Walla ever getting to Napa’s level in terms of notoriety or price points. The region is far too remote / removed from a major metro.

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There’s good stuff in Washington. They push the envelope like Napa for the most part, especially in the Walla Walla. The prices are better for a very strong reason- the demand is not there (save for Cayuse). That doesnt mean the quality isn’t there. Some make excellent wines that would berry much compete with Napa wines at twice the price- but that’s more just highlighting how ridiculous power of the Napa Valley brand.

I don’t see Washington or the Walla Walla ever getting to Napa’s level in terms of notoriety or price points. The region is far too remote / removed from a major metro.

Buy a variety of the left and right bank Bdx blends from Cadence Winery in Seattle. Toss 'em in the back of your cellar, and wait 20 to 25 years. Pull 'em out and use them as ringers in tastings against Bordeaux or classically styled CA Bdx blends. Smile at the results…

Michael

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Another big factor imo is that most wine drinkers associate Washington with Chateau Ste Michelle/Columbia Crest and associated brands. All drinkable and even good wines, but not generally “fine” wine. They are a very benevolent big brother and many WA wine makers have learned the trade in their cellars, and they do make some excellent high end reds imo. But the oceans of Riesling and Indian Wells are what most outside the state see.

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Neufeld head up against some napa cults.

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I’ve been told this as long as I’ve been into wine. For some reason no one can put wines in front of me that are consistently better. Maybe on the culty side with heavily oaked, very ripe, big wines they can compete but I’m not really sure that’s a trick. In terms of classically styled Cabs and such I haven’t seen it. Some good wines from WA for sure but have seen no evidence Napa should be worried.

Every time I sit down with wines from Washington, I generally come away impressed, especially with BDX reds and Syrah. They are different than what I find in Napa Valley but 2017 DeLille D2 from Columbia Valley for $45 and almost 13000 cases? 2017 Saviah Syrah Reserve, $45 (and the only 100 point score I gave in the PNW in 2019). Long Shadows? Consistently solid value.

First time I tasted Leonetti I never again felt Washington was not on Napa’s level. These days a lot of the juice I enjoy comes from Washington and Walla Walla in particular.

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In Washington I lean towards Syrah, Merlot and Blends. Most of my cab purchases are still from Napa/Sonoma. Also, in Washington I have to be very selective otherwise you get the heavy oak, high alcohol and very primary type of wine.

Agree with others about better value in WA on the moderate end. I direct friends who want daily drinker Cabs below $20 to WA: Charles Smith, Chateau St Michelle, etc.
I also think (purely based on property economics), it’s easier to find great winemakers making finely crafted wines in WA under the $75 range. In Napa it’s more hit or miss in this price range, imo. Gramercy and Force Majeure from WA are favorites. Yes, there are Napa gems to find in this price range, but QPR favors WA in this segment.

In terms of blind tasting-
I think young, age-worthy WA cabs display tougher tannins versus their CA counterparts (not talking about the daily drinkers). I’m not sure if it’s merely winemaking style, but the tannins in a young Quilceda Creek make it difficult for me to drink in the first 8 yrs without much more air than a similar CA cab.
It’s also more rare for me to find red fruit notes (cherry, raspberry) in WA Cabs versus CA cabs. More blueberry in WA cabs, IMO.

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I really like Doubleback, but it’s right at $100. I would love to find a daily drinker WA Cab that’s around $50.

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When I saw the subject heading, I assumed this was about regulation and the wine industry, and that it would soon be banished to the Politics forum.

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I used to buy quite a bit of WA cab & blends, but now the only WA cab/blend I buy is the Quilceda Creek Red (I continue to buy several WA syrahs). I found the majority of $50 +/- WA cabs/blends to generally be uninspiring, but this also applies to Napa. In the past month or so I have opened a couple of 2013 WA cabs/blends (Mark Ryan Lonely Heart & Rasa Creative Impulse) that were pretty darn good, but these were $80+ wines. I have also enjoyed Figgins and Doubleback in the past, but these are now $100 wines. I was drinking my WA cabs at 6-7 years of age (ditto for Napa), so as an experiment I have stuck away a couple of vintages of Q-C Cab and Andrew Will Sorella for extended aging. I am approaching retirement and will soon not be able to buy the Napa cabs that I currently enjoy, so I am starting to focus on Sonoma more and more. Cheers!



Try Gramercy Cellar’s base Cab! It’s right at $50 and is very well regarded, consistently scoring 92-95. I’ve no affiliation with them other than a happy drinker of their juice. Their John Lewis Syrah is one of the best I’ve had from WA.

https://gramercycellars.com/shop/?view=product&slug=2017-Cabernet-Sauvignon

From their website on their 2017 Cab-

Winemaker Notes
In some company, we feel comfortable enough to admit that we may drink more of our Cabernet at home than our Syrah. This admission does not discount the Syrah at all. We absolutely love it. But, particularly in recent years, we can’t get enough of the Cabernet Sauvignon. The vineyards in Washington for Cabernet Sauvignon are simply stunning. And the wines can be reminiscent of the Old World and historical California from the 1980s and 90s, a rare style today.

The Cabernet Sauvignon always contains two vital parts - Phinny Hill and Sagemoor Vineyards. They are like chocolate and peanut butter together. In 2016, we started a noteworthy introduction of our Estate vineyards in Walla Walla. For the past few years, we have moved the vineyards from sustainable to organic and are ecstatic with the results.

The 2017 Cabernet Sauvignon is about 50% Phinny Hill and 40% Sagemoor – Bacchus & Dionysus blocks. Each vineyard is vital to the final blend. As always, Phinny provides red fruit, backbone, and elegance. Sagemoor, with its aging vines from 25 to almost 50 years old, is all about power and complexity. The other 10% mostly includes our two estate vineyards in Walla Walla. Our JB George vineyard provided Cabernet Sauvignon and the Cabernet Franc and Merlot came from our Octave Estate Vineyard, located adjacent to but high above Seven Hills Vineyard.

The 2017 Cabernet is a blend of 90% Cab Sauv, 7% Cabernet Franc, and 3% Merlot. It was aged in 35% new French oak and the remainder in older French barrels.

Reviews
“Dark ruby with soft purple highlights, the 2017 Cabernet Sauvignon has an impactful and precise nose of juicy plum, dark cherry and blackberry essence that waft with elegant French oak tones of vanilla, cinnamon and cardamom. Medium to full-bodied, the wine has a succulent mouthfeel with oak flavors that bind effortlessly to juicy, plump and dark blackberry essence with subtle flavors of dried herbs and bitter dark chocolate. With a long, drawn-out finish, the wine displays all of its complexities as it lingers on the palate with persistence and a tannic grip. This wine is about layers and texture. Give it a try!”
93+ PTS – ANTHONY MUELLER, ROBERT PARKER’S WINE ADVOCATE

I buy Washington and California Cabs/blends at a roughly 2:1 ratio. Part of that (most) is driven by the price for the California wines I love. Blinded, Washington is generally going to show poorly, as they don’t usually have the overt fruit that many California Cabs/blends do and, in a truly blind format, the fruitier wines often show better. However, Washington does really well when not side-by-side with California. The JB Neufeld link above is, in my opinion, awesome but also somewhat of an anomaly. Washington Cabs vs. California Cabs blind might show similarly to a tasting pitting Oregon PN versus Cali PN. Both great, but not a good side-by-side.

For tough-to-beat QPR Cabs/blends, take a look at Soos Creek, Seven Hills Winery, L’Ecole No. 41, and a newer find, Virtue Cellars. Gramercy was mentioned above and is worth note. One of my personal favorites is always Woodward Canyon.

While I love Cadence wines, recommending them to a person who really loves Cali Cab is likely going to result in disappointment, IMO.

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IMHO … I find that Washington blends are more Bordeaux-like than Napa or Sonoma.

In addition, the ones that I buy and have consumed are also meant to go the distance (i.e. Leonetti, Quilceda Creek, Corliss etc.). For example, I drank Quilceda Creek at 5 and 6 years of age when it really needs 15 years to hit its stride.

I will also say the wines there are a lot of mediocre producers in WA, but the good producers are really good (think Cayuse, Reynvann, Quilceda Creek, Corliss, Andrew Will, Cadence, Force Majeure, Leonetti, Figgins etc.)

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