Re sensible pricing of left bank red bordeaux

Re sensible pricing of left bank red bordeaux: this is an attempt to give a shorter and less disjointed version of my earlier posts on this subject.
First I decide how much I would be willing to pay for a wine I gave 100 points (there has only been one, the 1982 Leoville Las Cases, bought for $34.97 in 1986 or 1987, kept at 60-65 degrees, and enjoyed with family on the last day of 1999). A few years ago I would have paid $160 for such a wine and today would pay $170.
For each point down I would divide the price by 1.108 and for each half point down I would divide the price by 1.0524. For an 85 point wine something like $36.52 was the maximum worth paying. Of course one can find many left bank red Bordeaux wines scoring from 85 to 90 points at reasonable prices, while I doubt if you can find a 100 point left bank red Bordeaux for $170. In practice finding a reasonable price for a wine I score above 96.5 seems very difficult. The reason I use 1.108 (and its square root 1.0524) is as follows: a QPR article giving prices for early 2000s left and right bank red Bordeaux gave $25 as the average for 85 point wines (bottom of 5th growths per Grundeken, see later) and $34 as the average for 88 point wines (bottom of 3rd growths per Grundeken). (34/25) to the power of 1/3 equals 1.108 . As points rose the prices became disproportionately out of line and so were ignored. It is true that right as well as left bank wines were considered, but I sometimes drink right bank red Bordeaux and equal scores should mean equal quality.
“Grundeken” refers to a mid-2004 (I think) article no longer on the internet called “Reclassifying Bordeaux According to Wine Advocate Ratings” (or something like that). Only Robert Parker (RP) ratings were used and the period covered was 1982 through 2003 excluding 4 poor years. (ratings for 2002 and 2003 were presumably from cask rather than bottle. I call the article “Grundeken” because I think grundeken was part of its internet address.
In Grundeken the bottom average ratings for each classified growth descending were 92.5, 90.0, 88.0, 86.5 and 85.0 .

Continuing the above subject, in his book “Wines of the World” writing (I believe) concerning the early 1820s wrote something like “a second growth would bring about a quarter less than a first growth” and other lower growths would bring about one quarter or one fifth less than the next higher growth. There were no fifth growths as such, only “deuxieme quatriemes” (“second fifths”), so I have taken a simple average of Grundeken’s fourth and fifth growths.
The 1/1.108 worked extremely well, within 1% for each category.
In Clive Coates’ Bordeaux, writing concerning the unofficial 1845 classification, he wrote something like "so a lowly fifth would bring 40% as much as a Chateau Lafite. At the time Lafite was the second highest ranked first growth. In Grundeken the second highest first growth averaged 94.1 and the lowliest fifth growth averaged 85.1 . The difference is 9 points. 0.40 to the power of 1/9 equals 1/1.107.

Welcome to Wine Berserkers RTP!

But I have to ask…is there a reason why you keep trying to generate discussion on your process for Left Bank Bordeaux? As you saw the last time you attempted multiple posts on the subject, everyone was happy that it worked for you…but didn’t seem particularly interested in exploring further. I guess I’m just trying to figure out what you’re ultimately trying to accomplish with these threads.

Re the above, I worked out average ratings for many left bank red Bordeaux from 2002 to 2014 (excluding the poor year 2013). Ratings were all from bottle, and all were by Robert Parker (RP) except 2014 by Neal Martin, RP’s then designated successor. Because Wine Advocate Vintage Ratings for the period averaged a rounded 92 instead of the rounded 90 for the Grundeken period, 1 point (1/2 of 2) was added to each classified growth category.
While the 1.108 was within 1% for each category, 1.109 was slighty better for paired comparisons.
Thus overall 1.108 works extremely well.
It is very possible that the DIFFERENCE in points in properly ranked classified growth divisions has remained relatively constant over the years.

To Rich Brown: I apologize for not replying properly to your email. I thought I was completing my latest posting about sensible pricing of left bank red Bordeaux. My aim is to help at least one other person with advice on the subject.
I probably should be posting on Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts but with my poor computer skills cannot register there. All seems well till I have to answer a question with unknown (to me) words that apparently have to deal with security.
I am very old. not very well and in a Medical Center. I do not have my source material available and so have to rely on my imperfect memory.
Again, my apologies RTPL

No apologies needed RTPL - I’m sorry to hear that you’re not well and am sending positive thoughts your way.

I find your method very interesting and appreciate you sharing. What are or have been some of your favorite bottles over the years?

To Rich Brown: Many thanks. I am feeling a little better already, RTPL
To joejolesch: Eureka! Many thanks for your email. Naturally I sometimes overpay for one bottle that I buy to try out, by my “system”, but wines bought in
quantity have to meet my price criteria. The only wine I ever gave 100 points was the 1982 Leoville Las Cases, enjoyed with family on the last
day of 1999. Recently from Spain my wife and I both really liked a Vega Sicilia. For left bank red Bordeaux in no particular order I love the
2010 Cantemerle, liked the 2009 and 2010 Gloria and the 2010 D’Armailhac, appreciated 2012 Rauzan Segla. D"issan and Malescot-Saint-
Exupery from Margaux, enjoyed the 2011 and 2012 Pontet Canet, really liked many vintages of Domaine de Chevalier Rouge, gave good
marks to some vintages of Leoville Poyferre, and recently bought some cases of 2015 and 2016 Domaine de Chevalier Rouge, 2015 Malartic
Lagraviere Rouge and 2016 Grand-Puy-Lacoste. I am sure that there are some omissions but I have to go by memory. Good luck! RTPL

You may describe yourself as very old, but if you are buying 2015 & 2016 vintages by the case you must also be an optimist, they will probably take a decade to open up. I must dig out a 375 of Cantemerle to see how it has opened up.

To Paul @bbott: I think recent vintages tend to be sooner ready to drink with pleasure than previously, at least some 2015s, and I keep wines slightly warmer now. Half bottles do mature much faster but I have few left. I have plenty of wine from earlier vintages that I will drink first (a bottle usually lasts 2 days). I suppose I should think about which family members and friends to whom to leave wine. RTPL

To Richard: I found the critical information regarding signup at BWE. The following is a quote from the administrator:

"I added a question for new members to block spammers:
What is your interest in this board?
The answers are:
wine lover
Wine
Bordeaux
Not case sensitive, any other answers would not allow posting, "

Returning to the topic at hand:
I am interested in discussing specific applications of your classification and pricing standards.
For instance, I just bought another case of 2014 Ch. Meyney at a per bottle price of about $33 plus another $1.60 for delivery. Each time I’ve consumed a bottle it has made me desire more, and the price has remained stable over the past 3 years at least. At 3 1/2 cases purchased, I may have enough now.
How does Meyney shape up in your system?

To Chris Foley : Many thanks for the info re BWE. Is one of the 3 answers enough, please?
Meyney is a good Bordeaux usually very reasonably priced, so it does very well in my system.
I would be very happy to discuss specific applications, but I have not tasted all of the classified or all of the good non-classified wines
from the left bank.
I have edited my original post, because of imperfect memory and lack of source material. I think it is all right now. RTPL

RTP Latham Richard wrote:
For left bank red Bordeaux in no particular order I love the
2010 Cantemerle, liked the 2009 and 2010 Gloria and the 2010 D’Armailhac, appreciated 2012 Rauzan Segla. D"issan and Malescot-Saint-
Exupery from Margaux, enjoyed the 2011 and 2012 Pontet Canet, really liked many vintages of Domaine de Chevalier Rouge, gave good
marks to some vintages of Leoville Poyferre, and recently bought some cases of 2015 and 2016 Domaine de Chevaler Rouge, 2015 Malartic
Lagraviere Rouge and 2016 Grand-Puy-Lacoste.

We like quite a few on this list, especially the Domaine de Chevalier and the 2016 GPL. Gloria also did quite well in 2015, and we grabbed a bunch at $35. And, as Rich said, hope you get well soon!

Chris Foley wrote:
For instance, I just bought another case of 2014 Ch. Meyney at a per bottle price of about $33 plus another $1.60 for delivery. Each time I’ve consumed a bottle it has made me desire more, and the price has remained stable over the past 3 years at least. At 3 1/2 cases purchased, I may have enough now.
How does Meyney shape up in your system?

Chris, we also recently backfilled some 2014 Meyney at $35 with local pick-up. Nice wine for the price!

Ed

I also bought 6 Meyney 2014, from a French hypermarche, but I have resisted temptation so far.

I believe any one of the answers is sufficient, yes.

To Ed Steinway and Paul @bbott: Many thanks for the messages. The 2015 Gloria sounds like a very good buy.
To Chris Foley: Thanks to you I was able to register with BWE last night, just using Bordeaux. I expect to spend more time there and less here, but one never knows. Many thanks for your much welcomed help. RTPL

if anyone is interested, my “system” can throw up apparent anomalies such as a second wine reaching “first growth status” for the year in question. The Wine Advocate Vintage Rating for the Margaux area seems to be 89, but under my system this is raised to 90. 190/2 =95. 95-2.5 =92.5, which is the score I gave to the 2012 Alter Ego de Palmer. I believe the 2012 Rauzan-Segla, Malescot-Saint-Exupery and D’Issan also qualify. All these wines seem really enjoyable. By the way, Chris, your 2014 Meyney sounds like a great buy. I am considering trying some but at my age have a lot of wine on hand (all bottles scored between 90.5 and 96.5 by me, so drinking any of them is pleasurable. Most of them rate 92.5 or higher and are very enjoyable) RTPL

Rauzan Segla is the only 2012 classed growth I bought in quantity. I have not tried it yet.

1 point? Sorry, but given different methods that could be considered margin of error…even more so just system bias.

To the last poster: Only one point from 89 to 90, but I would treat e.g. an 86 point W.A.V. R. the same way, because under my “system” I do not want any wine worth fifth growth status in any year to score less than 85. Obviously many valid arguments could be made against doing this, but I feel much more comfortable with the “system” than I would otherwise. I am all for other people using whichever method they choose. I welcome polite criticism and might someday be influenced to change something. I am happy if my my system helps someone else, but it was devised to prevent my over-paying for wines ultimately scored by me. RTPL