Your top five German wine producers

[D@vid Bu3ker]

Emrich-Schonleber
Heymann-Lowenstein
Keller
Willi Schaefer
Dr. Loosen (soft spot for Ernst Loosen as he is a super nice man).

On a side note, I wish quality German Riesling was better imported into the US. You can find it, but much harder than Italian, Spanish, French, etc.

What part of the U.S. do you live in? I know we don't get nearly everything, but I think we have tons of good options available to us, especially if you're willing to ship from other states (and your state allows shipments from other states).

I was wondering the same thing, especially since Heymann-Lowenstein is not at all easy to find.

[Juliec]

Fun lists: no order Falkenstein, Keller, Schaefer Frohlich, Merkelbach, Weiser-Kunstler/Willi Schaefer/JJ Prum/Lauer. Funniest fact have no clue on how any of the recent vintages are as these are mostly to drink later. This is the how challenging it is to purchase and taste Riesling.

[A.Gillette]

A little hard to tell as wines are stored in more then one place, but it would appear to be:
Keller
Julian Haart
Prum/Grunhaus/Schaefer

Clemens Busch will overtake Julian Haart soon given how difficult it is to get Julian's wines in any quantity.
A

[Jim Hanlon]

JJ Prum
Donnhoff
Schaefer
Merkelbach
Falkenstein

By level:
Spatlese
Kabinett
Auslese
Spatlese Feinherb
Kabinett Feinherb
Trocken

[Greg K]

1. Schaefer-Frohlich (by a reasonable distance)
2. Willi Schaefer
3. Selbach Oster
4. von Schubert
5. Probably Donnhoff, but recent vintages of Weiser-Kunstler may change that.

I don’t have Keller here mostly because I’ve not had enough of it to be able to definitively place it in my hierarchy as I can’t quite justify paying the prices.

Greg, yes the focus and hype are on the GGs from Keller. But their other wines don’t cost an arm and a leg and are delicious, e.g Limestone and RR.

I like Keller’s sweet wines quite a bit actually, and they’re easy to find. I’ve had (and own) a fair share of Keller’s von der fels and other bottling below the GGs, and they’re fine, but based on those wines Keller certainly wouldn’t make my top 5. My point is not that I’m not prepared to drink Keller because I can’t get the G-Max, but rather that I haven’t had enough of the wines that people then make his wines special.

[Howard Cooper]

Emrich-Schonleber
Heymann-Lowenstein
Keller
Willi Schaefer
Dr. Loosen (soft spot for Ernst Loosen as he is a super nice man).

On a side note, I wish quality German Riesling was better imported into the US. You can find it, but much harder than Italian, Spanish, French, etc.

It was easier a few years ago. With Terry Theise no longer involved in the company with his name and Rudi Wiest no longer in business, it seems like distribution of German wines is not as robust as it was.

[Howard Cooper]

By level:
Spatlese
Kabinett
Auslese
Spatlese Feinherb
Kabinett Feinherb
Trocken

For me:

Spatlese
Auslese
Kabinett (buy a good bit of these but probably drink them too young)
Auslese Goldkapsule

A bit of Feinherb and virtually no trocken or GG.

[Jeremy Holmes]

Dönnhoff
Dr. Bürklin-Wolf
Fritz Haag
Hofgut Falkenstein
Joh. Jos. Prüm

[Gabe Berk]

JJ Prum
Donnhoff
Schaefer
Merkelbach
Falkenstein

By level:
Spatlese
Kabinett
Auslese
Spatlese Feinherb
Kabinett Feinherb
Trocken

I was often told by German producers that the sweeter wines such as Spatlese, Auslese, BA, TBA and Ice Wine was majority of the time sold to the UK and USA market. The Trocken, Kabinett and GG were the wines of choice in Germany. Always found that interesting.

[D@vid Bu3ker]

JJ Prum
Donnhoff
Schaefer
Merkelbach
Falkenstein

By level:
Spatlese
Kabinett
Auslese
Spatlese Feinherb
Kabinett Feinherb
Trocken

I was often told by German producers that the sweeter wines such as Spatlese, Auslese, BA, TBA and Ice Wine was majority of the time sold to the UK and USA market. The Trocken, Kabinett and GG were the wines of choice in Germany. Always found that interesting.

Kabinett sells tons in the USA. Tough since climate change has made Kabinett harder to produce.

[P L owet]

We own much less than most of the posters here do. That said:
JJ Prum
Donnhoff
F. Haag
M. Molitor

I've been surprised by the degree that US buyers are not dissuaded by tariffs for their 2019 purchase decisions. I realize that German Riesling is still a good relative value in the wine world, but I'm bummed that many favorites are no longer in my "everyday" price range. We're drinking more than we're buying -- I wish that were true in other parts of the cellar, but it's going to be a problem soon here.
Regards,
Peter

[Jim Hanlon]

We own much less than most of the posters here do. That said:
JJ Prum
Donnhoff
F. Haag
M. Molitor

I've been surprised by the degree that US buyers are not dissuaded by tariffs for their 2019 purchase decisions. I realize that German Riesling is still a good relative value in the wine world, but I'm bummed that many favorites are no longer in my "everyday" price range. We're drinking more than we're buying -- I wish that were true in other parts of the cellar, but it's going to be a problem soon here.
Regards,
Peter

For QPR and availability, Richter is a name to know.

[Eric Ifune]

JJ Prum
Muller Catoir
Donnhoff
Gunderloch (Knew Fritz Hasselbach RIP)
Burklin Wolf

[D@vid Bu3ker]

JJ Prum
Muller Catoir
Donnhoff
Gunderloch (Knew Fritz Hasselbach RIP)
Burklin Wolf

HGS Catoir?

[Luca Giupponi]

For someone like me who’s just getting into riesling, this is a fascinating thread! What are your top online retailers you source from? It’s hard for me to find anything decent in mid Michigan. I apologize if this is thread drift.

[Eric Ifune]

HGS Catoir?

Mainly. The first time I lived in Europe was during his tenure. I lived 30 minutes away from Neustadt. The second time was from 1999-2003. Would buy cases annually.

[maureen nelson]

JJ Prum (19.82%)
Selbach-Oster (10.75% - I confess I drink a lot of these so holdings are down)
Willi Schaefer (7.84%)
Richter (7.73% - average age of these young as I have bought a lot recently)
Dr Loosen (6.27 %)

Next five are Fritz Haag, Von Schubert, Vollenweider, Muller-Catoir (I still have 34 bottles, and 18 are from 2001 and earlier, Jay), and Schloss Lieser. One producer I don’t buy much anymore is Donnhoff, which has dropped to #12 with only 25;bottles left. They got too expensive.

[Brian Pinci]

1. Prum
2. Richter
3. Falkenstein
4. Molitor
5. Selbach Oster

[Brian S t o t t e r]

1. Schaefer-Frohlich (by a reasonable distance)
2. Willi Schaefer
3. Selbach Oster
4. von Schubert
5. Probably Donnhoff, but recent vintages of Weiser-Kunstler may change that.

I don’t have Keller here mostly because I’ve not had enough of it to be able to definitively place it in my hierarchy as I can’t quite justify paying the prices.

Greg, yes the focus and hype are on the GGs from Keller. But their other wines don’t cost an arm and a leg and are delicious, e.g Limestone and RR.

Depending on the vintage, sometimes declassified GG fruit makes it into the lower tier cuvees. IIRC, the 2018 Von Der Fels had a higher percentage of declassified Pettenthal than usual.

[Kelly Walker]

I read the topic to ask for the top five producers by preference vs in the cellar though I guess the top five in ones cellar likely reflects the top five by preference. I would have a lot of Keller in the cellar if they were more affordable. My favorite by my own purchasing over the last 4-5 years has been Von Winning. I have a good bit of Muller-Catoir, Shaefer-Frohlich and Selbach-Oster in the cellar.

[D@vid Bu3ker]

I read the topic to ask for the top five producers by preference vs in the cellar though I guess the top five in ones cellar likely reflects the top five by preference. I would have a lot of Keller in the cellar if they were more affordable. My favorite by my own purchasing over the last 4-5 years has been Von Winning. I have a good bit of Muller-Catoir, Shaefer-Frohlich and Selbach-Oster in the cellar.

Howard asked for “holdings” which is clearly inventory.

[Kelly Walker]

I read the topic to ask for the top five producers by preference vs in the cellar though I guess the top five in ones cellar likely reflects the top five by preference. I would have a lot of Keller in the cellar if they were more affordable. My favorite by my own purchasing over the last 4-5 years has been Von Winning. I have a good bit of Muller-Catoir, Shaefer-Frohlich and Selbach-Oster in the cellar.

Howard asked for “holdings” which is clearly inventory.

Like I said, I was going by just the topic.

[D@vid Bu3ker]

I read the topic to ask for the top five producers by preference vs in the cellar though I guess the top five in ones cellar likely reflects the top five by preference. I would have a lot of Keller in the cellar if they were more affordable. My favorite by my own purchasing over the last 4-5 years has been Von Winning. I have a good bit of Muller-Catoir, Shaefer-Frohlich and Selbach-Oster in the cellar.

Howard asked for “holdings” which is clearly inventory.

Like I said, I was going by just the topic.

As in title...got it.

[A.Gillette]

Depending on the vintage, sometimes declassified GG fruit makes it into the lower tier cuvees. IIRC, the 2018 Von Der Fels had a higher percentage of declassified Pettenthal than usual.

Guessing at what you mean by lower tier cuvees, but the RR always comes from a specific section of Kirchspiel - the red slate. It is a single vineyard wine. I have no idea if the RR section could be designated GG, but it is definitely different than the rest of Kirchspiel. I’m glad he bottles it separately (and that it is about half the price of the GG). As far as I know, the von der fels comes from sections of the Westhofen GG vineyards that can’t be labeled as GG. I believe it is also mainly kirchspiel, but might have other vineyards as well. I didn’t know it had the Nierstein vineyards. I thought any Pettenthal that didn’t go into the GG or the pradikat wines (along with any Hipping) was now in the bottling labelled “Nierstien”, but I’ve never seen a bottle in the US.

Anyone care to elaborate?

A

[Brian S t o t t e r]

Depending on the vintage, sometimes declassified GG fruit makes it into the lower tier cuvees. IIRC, the 2018 Von Der Fels had a higher percentage of declassified Pettenthal than usual.

Guessing at what you mean by lower tier cuvees, but the RR always comes from a specific section of Kirchspiel - the red slate. It is a single vineyard wine. I have no idea if the RR section could be designated GG, but it is definitely different than the rest of Kirchspiel. I’m glad he bottles it separately (and that it is about half the price of the GG). As far as I know, the von der fels comes from sections of the Westhofen GG vineyards that can’t be labeled as GG. I believe it is also mainly kirchspiel, but might have other vineyards as well. I didn’t know it had the Nierstein vineyards. I thought any Pettenthal that didn’t go into the GG or the pradikat wines (along with any Hipping) was now in the bottling labelled “Nierstien”, but I’ve never seen a bottle in the US.

Anyone care to elaborate?

A

Sorry you're right. It was actually some Kirchspiel fruit that was declassified for the Von Der Fels. Not Pettenthal. Just looked at Gilman's notes.

[A.Gillette]

Depending on the vintage, sometimes declassified GG fruit makes it into the lower tier cuvees. IIRC, the 2018 Von Der Fels had a higher percentage of declassified Pettenthal than usual.

Guessing at what you mean by lower tier cuvees, but the RR always comes from a specific section of Kirchspiel - the red slate. It is a single vineyard wine. I have no idea if the RR section could be designated GG, but it is definitely different than the rest of Kirchspiel. I’m glad he bottles it separately (and that it is about half the price of the GG). As far as I know, the von der fels comes from sections of the Westhofen GG vineyards that can’t be labeled as GG. I believe it is also mainly kirchspiel, but might have other vineyards as well. I didn’t know it had the Nierstein vineyards. I thought any Pettenthal that didn’t go into the GG or the pradikat wines (along with any Hipping) was now in the bottling labelled “Nierstien”, but I’ve never seen a bottle in the US.

Anyone care to elaborate?

A

Sorry you're right. It was actually some Kirchspiel fruit that was declassified for the Von Der Fels. Not Pettenthal. Just looked at Gilman's notes.

It’s pretty darn good regardless!
A

[Ethan Abraham]

Top 5 roughly equal -
Willi schaefer
Shafer frohlich
Keller
Prum
Lauer

[LoriMcLaughlin]

44 different German producers

Majority in two producers (36+ bottles/per producer):
Donnhoff
J.J. Prum

Next three:
Von Schubert
Selbach-Oster
St. Urbanshof

We spent a lot of time in Germany with hubby’s job, so we were fortunate to try a number of different producers.

[Kevin G.]

Hofgut Falkenstein
Willi Schaefer
Selbach-Oster
Prüm
Dönnhoff

Used to buy a lot more Von Hövel, Gunderloch, Langwerth von Simmern, and Dr. Loosen. I still enjoy these when bottles are pulled from storage.

[J. Rock]

For someone like me who’s just getting into riesling, this is a fascinating thread! What are your top online retailers you source from? It’s hard for me to find anything decent in mid Michigan. I apologize if this is thread drift.

I don't know what ships to you, but living in CA, I like the Riesling selections at K&L Wines, Wine House, Woodland Hills Wine Company, and JJ Buckley.

[John Glas]

1. JJ Prum
2. Fritz Haag
3. Loosen
4. St. Urbans Hof
5. Selbach-Oster

[John Glas]

2010 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese ** (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer)
Anyone ever try this wine even in another vintage? $34.99 locally and seems to have good notes on Tracker.

[D@vid Bu3ker]

2010 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese ** (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer)
Anyone ever try this wine even in another vintage? $34.99 locally and seems to have good notes on Tracker.

Selbach-Oster “homer” here. Everything they make from the Zeltinger Sonnenuhr is excellent. Have no fear.

[Jayson Cohen]

Same as my prior top 5 but moved around a bit due to 2019 purchases and my lack of Donnhoff purchases.

Willi Schaefer
Hofgut Falkenstein
JJ Prum
Donnhoff
von Schubert (which I expect to pass Donnhoff soon)

I own wines from 25 producers, none Egon or Keller, although I enjoy the wines of both tremendously. 6 of the 25 are the Golden Generation introduced to us by Keller and Source Material.

Most critically and sadly, I am down to 8 bottles from HGS Muller-Catoir.

[John Glas]

Selbach-Oster “homer” here. Everything they make from the Zeltinger Sonnenuhr is excellent. Have no fear.

Thanks. Price seemed right and hardly anyone buys German Rieslings in MN.

[asnitow]

My top five are:

JJ Prum
Donnhoff
Willi Schaefer
Shafer Frohlich
Emrich Schonleber

Has anyone found anyone else whose top five were an exact match for their own top 5 (not nec same order, but same five producers at least)?

[Marty L.]

Well somebody had to show up and add some variety to this thread.

My top 2 are Enderle & Moll and Ziereisen.

(They're followed by Willi Schaefer, Donnhoff, and Selbach Oster. Falkenstein would be in there too but I just consume those bottles too quickly to be able to amass any quantity in the cellar).

[Jim Hanlon]

For someone like me who’s just getting into riesling, this is a fascinating thread! What are your top online retailers you source from? It’s hard for me to find anything decent in mid Michigan. I apologize if this is thread drift.

If Vinopolis in Portland ships to Michigan, they're a very good source for Riesling.

[A Songeur]

I own wines from 25 producers, none Egon or Keller, although I enjoy the wines of both tremendously. 6 of the 25 are the Golden Generation introduced to us by Keller and Source Material.

I don't buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe ... they are not the "glorious top wines" costing an arm and a leg... but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don't believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines... probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines... yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

[A Songeur]

I own wines from 25 producers, none Egon or Keller, although I enjoy the wines of both tremendously. 6 of the 25 are the Golden Generation introduced to us by Keller and Source Material.

I don't buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe ... they are not the "glorious top wines" costing an arm and a leg... but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don't believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines... probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines... yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

I beg to differ...Keller Feuervogel and Scheurebe are definitely glorious : )

[Robert Dentice]

Well somebody had to show up and add some variety to this thread.

My top 2 are Enderle & Moll and Ziereisen.

(They're followed by Willi Schaefer, Donnhoff, and Selbach Oster. Falkenstein would be in there too but I just consume those bottles too quickly to be able to amass any quantity in the cellar).

That is a fascinating top 2. Of those what percentage is orange, white, red and rose?

[Jayson Cohen]

I own wines from 25 producers, none Egon or Keller, although I enjoy the wines of both tremendously. 6 of the 25 are the Golden Generation introduced to us by Keller and Source Material.

I don't buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe ... they are not the "glorious top wines" costing an arm and a leg... but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don't believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines... probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines... yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

I have been looking for Keller Scheurebe Kabinett for over a year in the US, since the Alt-Rieslingfeier dinner in NYC. No luck. I think Robert and the Riesling Kenner guys buy it all.

[Robert Dentice]

I own wines from 25 producers, none Egon or Keller, although I enjoy the wines of both tremendously. 6 of the 25 are the Golden Generation introduced to us by Keller and Source Material.

I don't buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe ... they are not the "glorious top wines" costing an arm and a leg... but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don't believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines... probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines... yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

I have been looking for Keller Scheurebe Kabinett for over a year in the US, since the Alt-Rieslingfeier dinner in NYC. No luck. I think Robert and the Riesling Kenner guys buy it all.

I would think you are right. However not because we are hogs because only a few cases come into the U.S. PM your address and I will send you a bottle.

[Greg K]

I don't buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe ... they are not the "glorious top wines" costing an arm and a leg... but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don't believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines... probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines... yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

I have been looking for Keller Scheurebe Kabinett for over a year in the US, since the Alt-Rieslingfeier dinner in NYC. No luck. I think Robert and the Riesling Kenner guys buy it all.

I would think you are right. However not because we are hogs because only a few cases come into the U.S. PM your address and I will send you a bottle.

Ha! I distinctly remember this conversation last month Robert!

[G. Curd]

Mine is very similar to Mark Golodetz currently.

Prum



Max Ferd Richter
Willi Schaefer
Falkenstein

Everything else.

[G. Curd]

I don't buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe ... they are not the "glorious top wines" costing an arm and a leg... but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don't believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines... probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines... yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

I have been looking for Keller Scheurebe Kabinett for over a year in the US, since the Alt-Rieslingfeier dinner in NYC. No luck. I think Robert and the Riesling Kenner guys buy it all.

I would think you are right. However not because we are hogs because only a few cases come into the U.S. PM your address and I will send you a bottle.

One of the many reasons I love these forums. Very kind of you. Every person I have communicated with on here has been very positive and very kind. Bravo Robert.

[Brian S t o t t e r]

Mine is very similar to Mark Golodetz currently.

Prum



Max Ferd Richter
Willi Schaefer
Falkenstein

Everything else.

I'm kind of surprised you're not 100% Prum

[James Wright]

having been a pro for much of my career –
i need to pass over Falkenstein in the Saar because i used to sell them;
Gut Hermannsberg in the Nahe, same reason
and Lingenfelder is a great friend of mine...

so without any doubt

Koehler-Ruprecht –
Fritz Haag – many thanks to the late Wilhelm
Wirsching –
Dönnhoff –
Karthäuserhof –

editing and unediting, nothing changed from initial comment

[D@vid Bu3ker]

Nice job on the Franken James.

[Tom G l a s g o w]

1. Keller (more than twice #2)
2. Emrich-Schonleber
3. Schafer-Frolich
4. Ratzenberger (bet no one else has that in Top 5!)
5. Andreas Laible (I'd be surprised on that one as well)

Next tier includes Battenfeld-Spanier, JJ Prum, Julian Haart, Weiser-Kuntsler, Willi Schaefer, Wittman - not in order. Then there's another 20 or so producers with more than 10 bottles. 51 producers in total.

Haven't heard of Ratzenberger. Do they get imported to the U.S. or do you special order? I assume based on your preferences they do dry wines?

I am betting that Sara gets Ratzenberger through Moore Bros.

Yes, through Moore Brothers. They are way off the beaten track for most, though far from all, US Riesling lovers. Some of our dear WB friends in Germany and other parts of Europe know them a lot better. They are oddball in a lot of ways - holding back for late releases, for example - and they are more inconsistent than I'd like, but the highs are very high and they have some excellent holdings. They've been doing a lot with the dry wines since well before the GGs came to be, but they do some sweets as well and some very good sekt. The pure drinking pleasure is what Ratz is about for me. Not to say objective quality isn't there as well, it just never gets in the way of the deliciousness factor.

Your top 5 was no surprise, my top 5 is probably similar. Moore Bros don’t ship unfortunately so I’m on an 8 year drought.