Characterize (Red) Burgundy By Appellation

I’m a huge pinot fan but pretty much stick to drinking local stuff here in Oregon for the past few years since moving here. Id like to start exploring burgundy as I just noticed I only have 4 bottles (ive never even tried) but rather than ask for value wines or specific producers I thought id ask at a higher level and ask about appellations instead, then go from there. So If you could generalize each appellation by describing the types of aromas, flavors, acid and tannin levels common in those areas, what would they be? Which appellations offer the red fruits with higher acids? Which appellations offer the deep dark plum notes? What about earthy forest floor aromas and flavors? I’ll admit, wine became way more enjoyable out here when I started paying closer attention to soil types out here in the Willamette. It really is remarkable how different the Loess soil wines are from Volcanic or Marine Sedimentary types… So if you know soil types of those regions and could include that too that would be awesome! Thanks!

Brandon…before going into details, may I ask how much do you know about AOC ? Or may I ask what is your favorite book Burgundy ?

My favorite is by Jasper Morris : Inside Burgundy - specifically if you are interested to know the vineyards in details.

Peter,

I have one Burgundy Book, “The Great Domaines Of Burgundy.” It pretty much focuses on producers and their styles as I recall.

As far as AOC, I know very little other than there are different vineyard (villages, 1er, GC) rankings in quality based on elevations. I imagine there still might be some similar characteristics in flavor profiles from vineyards from the very top to the very bottom but I could be wrong. Well I shouldnt say very bottom because I know here you find missoula on the valley floor and once you get up to 200 feet you fine the better loamy better draining soils… but there still has got to be some similar characterstics within a region! And thanks for pointing out the book, I will grab a copy and start looking at the one I have on hand again… been years since Ive opened it!

Merci…there are 3 additions of : The Great Domaine of Burgundy by Remington Norman. It is an excellent book to learn about the * style * of each of the producers in the book.

That being said : Style is not substance; and substance is not style. Substance means the grapes in each vineyard ( or lieu-dit ). But vineyard ( lieu-dit) is not an Appellation ( or AC ).

Basically there are 3 type of Appellation : Grands crus ( 2%): Villages and Regionals. The AC systems were created in the mid-1930. Later ( in the early 1940s ) they added a level to the Villages Appellation : which is Premiers crus. So in short…there are 3 types of AC with 4 levels.

Sometime, a vineyard ( lieu-dit )…is situated…in the 3 types of AC.

I have no knowledge at all of the soil type…etc…etc…in Burgundy - because I do not want headache.

Thanks Peter! That I was not aware of, that a vineyard could be situated in all 3 appellations. That is a pretty cool fact. I will admit I have researched some of this stuff before and have gotten nowhere, in terms of soil types and pinot clonal types. Its like a fricken mystery! Makes it all that more intriguing!

And I will be purchasing the books you are referencing. I need to start building a cellar of this stuff, I know i will regret it some day if I dont start now. Id like to focus on a specific appellation or two based on characteristics… So for instance when you think of Pommard, what comes to mind? What about Morey St Denis? Or Chambolle Musigny?

I’m familiar with these regions only because of the Wine Exchange. My dad and I use to be a regular every Saturday for years before my wife and I relocated. Unfortunately I never took notes and never took those tastings all that serious… Since relocarinf the last time I drank a french pinot was a Vin De Pays from Trader Joes… its not great but not plonk either! Lol

please name a single burgundy vineyard that is all 3–grand cru, premier cru, and AC or lieux dit. Other than, of course, when a wine is declassified.

Alan…would you like to name one vineyard ( = lieu-dit )first - which is situated in 3 levels (= grands-cru; 1er cru and village ) …and please be my guess !

The first one is in Chambolle…

Alan…please note that a Musigny - Blanc - a grands cru Appellation …could not be declassified into a village Appellation; but it could be declassified into a Appellation -Regional ( for example : Bougnogne-Blanc ).

The second lieu-dit…is …in Morey St. Denis. …and the third one ( a lieu-dit ) is around a Hill ( but I maybe wrong with this one ).

Brandon - my advise is stay away from Burgundy.

If you are really looking for trouble : read, read, and read - and also taste, taste and taste.

I disagree. This is only wine, not a doctoral thesis. You can learn as much or as little as you want.

Burgundy can be as simple as find a good retailer and listen to him or her. How far is the OP from Portland. Doesn’t Vinopolis sell Burgundy? If not, call Greg at Envoyer and ask for help.

Or, try wines from a large Burgundy producer like Drouhin, Jadot and/or Bouchard. Go to Domaine Drouhin in Oregon. Bet you can try their Oregon wine vs one of their Burgs side by side.

Try a Volnay or a Morey St Denis. Go to hall of fame threads and there are a couple of good ones on Burgundy with tons of recommendations.

Howard…you know that I was joking with Brandon.

Thanks for joining us.

Try a Volnay? I believe the wines I’ve put away are Volnays… I have 4x 2015 Bouchard Les Caillerets which I believe are volnays… I bought them because at one point I wanted to start collecting a vertical of a burgundy and chose that one because of the history record of the vineyard. I believe it was the wineries first vineyard planted by Bouchard or purchased by them in the early 18th century. I thought that was very cool but never purchased any thereafter. And yes Vinopolis is close in proximity. When i first arrived out here I bought a mix of Marsannay wines and wasnt crazy about the dark blue fruit profile of the wines. I believe these were 2014 Collotte Marsannays. Pretty affordable but just didnt do it for me. From that point on I began exploring the Willmette. But was that just producer or was that typical Marsannay? Is Marsannay typically blue fruits? I guess thats where I’m going with this. It might be better to describe what Im looking for but figured generalizing regions might give others looking to dive in an opportunity to find what theyre looking for.

Alan…as I age, my memory is not as good as before. I need to double check before posting.

In Combolle, the lieu-dit is : La Comb d’orveau; in Morey St. Denis: Monts Luisants; in A-Corton : Les Paulands. The last one ( I maybe wrong because I do not know if there is land in village level ) is in Ladoix : Haute-Mourottes & Basse Mourottes.

Brandon…Volnay wines are expensive to try them on …to find out …your prefer style of Burgundy wines. Go by producers first.

Taste their wines and find out if their house-style fit your taste. I like wines from Marsannays ( and also from Mercurey ). I am the Honorable President of the 2 Ms club in Montreal, Canada. Our club is different than the 2Ms club in Singapore.

The wines for our Club in Montreal, Canada are Marsannays and Mercurey. The wines for the 2Ms Club in Singapore are : Musigny and Montrachet.

If you have a chance…buy a few cuvees of C. Audoin’s Marsannays from the same vintage year. His Charmes aux Pretres is closed to 100% whole-bunch and the percentage of the other cuvees …are lower and varies.

I find Marsannay to have more bright, lighter fruits than much of Burgundy, with an earthy edge, but maybe that’s just me? I don’t know Collotte, but it’s possible that you didn’t like the style of the producer as opposed to the village. Instead of focusing on delving into one particular wine, I’d suggest trying as many different villages and producers as you can and seeing which appeal to you before just picking something because of someone else’s recommendation. Once we can get back to normal I’d recommend visiting the Portland wine shops that do Friday night theme tastings. You can taste a variety of wines that way and see which ones appeal to you for a relatively low cost.

In 2012 I attended a Charles Audoin tasting at Wine Exchange. They had brought in over 8 to 10 different wines from his 2010 vintage. Wines were $20-$40. I recall there mainly being Marsannays but a Pommard and Gevrey as well. Biggest regret in my wine life… not buying cases of those wines… I do recall really enjoying those wines!
Last year I had a few Mercureys my brother had purchased from Total Wine in his area of Frisco Texas. I recall the wines being dark fruited and dusty/earthy. They were def enjoyable and very affordable i recall.
I’m looking for the red fruits (cranberry, raspberry, pomeganate) with some good tannic structure. Where can these flavors be found predominantly? And yes I will be taking a trip to Vinopolis as soon as this god dam snow melts and I can safely make it down the mountain

You can save some money (depending on how much you want to spend and what you consider expensive) by buying villages level wine. Recently bought Lafarge 2017 Volnay Vendanges Sélectionnées for $70.

If that is more than you want to spend, see the following Hall of Fame Thread:

For more general knowledge, see the following Hall of Fame Thread:

I think that a lot of this is vintage by vintage and producer by producer so I think you need to ask for help at a retailer, but I would say Morey-St. Denis or Vosne Romanee. For example, in red Chassagne Montrachet, I think of Ramonet’s wines as having tasting more of red fruit than the wines of Bernard Moreau. Also, a lot of this is age dependent as I find that some wines that taste very much of red fruit young taste different with age and that different people perceived different fruits in the wines they drink. For example, the first red fruit I think of when I think of Burgundy is cherry and you don’t even mention it.

I think you are going to find this quest pretty frustrating unless you get a lot of retail help.

There is even one in two different Grand Crus, 1 PC + Village !

Robert…are you referring to the lieu-dit in Ladoix. Mourottes ?

The vignerons would normally label the bottle as : Corton - Mourottes. They do not normally label it as Corton - Basse Mourottes or Corton - Haute-Mourottes.