2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#51 Post by Peter Chiu »

With the Chinese factor in Hong Kong, I believe Lafarge and dAngerville will be the next Dujac in 3 years ( if not 5 ) - despite the fact that Volnay is not the real Musigny !!

In Quebec, Canada Prieur Musigny 2008 was released at CA $360; 2015 at CA $839 and now 2017 at CA $1349.50.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#52 Post by William Kelley »

Peter Chiu wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:56 pm With the Chinese factor in Hong Kong, I believe Lafarge and dAngerville will be the next Dujac in 3 years ( if not 5 ) - despite the fact that Volnay is not the real Musigny !!

In Quebec, Canada Prieur Musigny 2008 was released at CA $360; 2015 at CA $839 and now 2017 at CA $1349.50.
Not just HK, mainland, too!
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#53 Post by Andrew K. »

Peter Chiu wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:56 pm With the Chinese factor in Hong Kong, I believe Lafarge and dAngerville will be the next Dujac in 3 years ( if not 5 ) - despite the fact that Volnay is not the real Musigny !!

In Quebec, Canada Prieur Musigny 2008 was released at CA $360; 2015 at CA $839 and now 2017 at CA $1349.50.
That's awful. I paid $470 for 2017 Prieur Moose.
к𝓁ย𝐠

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#54 Post by Mark Y »

YLee wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:00 pm
Mark Y wrote: February 10th, 2021, 4:52 pm
Dennis Borczon wrote: February 10th, 2021, 4:46 pm
I will take that bet, since I may not be alive in five years! I was thinking more a 20% increase, year on year over two years. One catch, I get to deliver it in person if I lose...
So.... i know math is annoying.. [wow.gif] but 20% yoy increase makes $220 in year 1, $456 in year 5.. [wow.gif] [wow.gif] [wow.gif]

Yr 1- 220
yr 2- 264
yr 3- 316
yr 4- 380
yr 5- 456
Wouldnt "within five years of today" be $547.43?

Yah at end of year 5.
Sorry I was just calculating it where it hit their betting threshold of 450. But yes. After 5 complete years it would be 547. Hahaha
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#55 Post by A.Gillette »

And Jean Marc & Thomas Bouley remain readily available at decent prices...
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#56 Post by RyanC »

A.Gillette wrote: February 10th, 2021, 6:52 pm And Jean Marc & Thomas Bouley remain readily available at decent prices...
And so delicious.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#57 Post by Keith Levenberg »

RyanC wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:24 pm
crickey wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:19 pm
Dennis Borczon wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:04 pm Correct, but William did not specify a %, just a number increase at year five. My bet would be $316.00 in two years....
Just a warning: the 2015 is currently $500 in the US. (Incidentally, what metric will you use for the price?)
Yeah... barring a general downtown in the fine wine market--which is always a possibility--I suspect William will win the bet in 2-3 years if not sooner.
The real question mark isn't how much Lafarge will be worth but how much $500 will be worth

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#58 Post by R. Frankel »

William Kelley wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:43 pm
R. Frankel wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:36 pm
Dennis Borczon wrote: February 10th, 2021, 4:46 pm
I will take that bet, since I may not be alive in five years! I was thinking more a 20% increase, year on year over two years. One catch, I get to deliver it in person if I lose...
It is a necessary condition that all such bets must be consummated with an excellent dinner. I will bring a 2002 Lafarge Clos de Chenes to that dinner. Let me when and where. My calendar for 2026 is wide open.
Naturally. You might have to come to Beaune, though... champagne.gif
As long as air travel is safe again I don’t see that as a problem. [cheers.gif]
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#59 Post by Alex Valdes »

Keith Levenberg wrote: February 10th, 2021, 8:06 pm
RyanC wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:24 pm
crickey wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:19 pm

Just a warning: the 2015 is currently $500 in the US. (Incidentally, what metric will you use for the price?)
Yeah... barring a general downtown in the fine wine market--which is always a possibility--I suspect William will win the bet in 2-3 years if not sooner.
The real question mark isn't how much Lafarge will be worth but how much $500 will be worth
In terms of Lafarge wine, seems like $500 will be worth 1 bottle cheesehead

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#60 Post by crickey »

Keith Levenberg wrote: February 10th, 2021, 8:06 pm
RyanC wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:24 pm
crickey wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:19 pm

Just a warning: the 2015 is currently $500 in the US. (Incidentally, what metric will you use for the price?)
Yeah... barring a general downtown in the fine wine market--which is always a possibility--I suspect William will win the bet in 2-3 years if not sooner.
The real question mark isn't how much Lafarge will be worth but how much $500 will be worth
Easy, $500.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#61 Post by Peter Chiu »

Andrew K. wrote: February 10th, 2021, 6:22 pm
Peter Chiu wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:56 pm With the Chinese factor in Hong Kong, I believe Lafarge and dAngerville will be the next Dujac in 3 years ( if not 5 ) - despite the fact that Volnay is not the real Musigny !!

In Quebec, Canada Prieur Musigny 2008 was released at CA $360; 2015 at CA $839 and now 2017 at CA $1349.50.
That's awful. I paid $470 for 2017 Prieur Moose.

Thanks - guess why the 2015 and 2017 has not taker - yet.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#62 Post by William Kelley »

A.Gillette wrote: February 10th, 2021, 6:52 pm And Jean Marc & Thomas Bouley remain readily available at decent prices...
Make hay while the sun shines!
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#63 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

William Kelley wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:31 pm I think these days of generalizing by commune are past, at least in a vintage where it wasn't the case the one commune was e.g. wiped out by hail. There are a lot of good producers in Volnay, so in a good vintage such as 2019, it is unsurprising that many good wines were made. In fact, on paper, given the timing of rain events, one might have been tempted to think that 2019 would have disadvantaged the Côte de Beaune relative to the Côte de Nuits, but that didn't show up in the glass. Anyone who buys some 2019s from e.g. Lafarge, d'Angerville, Thomas Bouley, Thierry Glantenay, Voillot, etc, will not be disappointed.
We have some 2019 Glantenay Volnay coming in next week. There is the Village, 1er Les Brouillard and 1er Les Santenots. I'll get some Village for earlier (and cheaper!) drinking but assuming I can only pick a 1er Cru as well, which one should I look at?

I was thinking Santenots but I read some pretty good comments on Brouillard for 2019. Did anybody try both cuvées?

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#64 Post by Nick Gangas »

still many wines have not hit our shores. Damn Covid !!!
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#65 Post by Mattstolz »

Keith Levenberg wrote: February 10th, 2021, 8:06 pm
RyanC wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:24 pm
crickey wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:19 pm

Just a warning: the 2015 is currently $500 in the US. (Incidentally, what metric will you use for the price?)
Yeah... barring a general downtown in the fine wine market--which is always a possibility--I suspect William will win the bet in 2-3 years if not sooner.
The real question mark isn't how much Lafarge will be worth but how much $500 will be worth
the real question is, how many bitcoins will that be, and will dollars even be important? I have it on good twitter-thority that bitcoin will rule the world by then. probably those bottles will just be owned in the cloud on a blockchain and you'll drink them in an oculus rig I guess.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#66 Post by Howard Cooper »

DanielP wrote: February 9th, 2021, 4:17 pm I'm saving my bullets for 2021, supposed to be a great vintage
I am waiting for the year 2525, if man is still alive.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#67 Post by Peter Chiu »

Phil T r o t t e r wrote: October 12th, 2021, 3:22 pm
William Kelley wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:31 pm I think these days of generalizing by commune are past, at least in a vintage where it wasn't the case the one commune was e.g. wiped out by hail. There are a lot of good producers in Volnay, so in a good vintage such as 2019, it is unsurprising that many good wines were made. In fact, on paper, given the timing of rain events, one might have been tempted to think that 2019 would have disadvantaged the Côte de Beaune relative to the Côte de Nuits, but that didn't show up in the glass. Anyone who buys some 2019s from e.g. Lafarge, d'Angerville, Thomas Bouley, Thierry Glantenay, Voillot, etc, will not be disappointed.
We have some 2019 Glantenay Volnay coming in next week. There is the Village, 1er Les Brouillard and 1er Les Santenots. I'll get some Village for earlier (and cheaper!) drinking but assuming I can only pick a 1er Cru as well, which one should I look at?

I was thinking Santenots but I read some pretty good comments on Brouillard for 2019. Did anybody try both cuvées?
Phil .......you have been into too many other wines in SAQ ( except Burgundy ) and hmmmm - please remember all roads will lead into Rome. [swoon.gif]

SAQ has 2 domines under the name Glantenays - one is George Glantenays and the other is just : Glantenays. .

I much prefer the Bernard Glantenay ( list only the family name in SAQ-web) than George Glantenay for 2 reasons. Bernard Glantenays in much cheaper and also my preferred producer - due to their house style.

SAQ always carries Bernard Glantenay's 3 1er crus : I only buy their Santenots - which is priced very similar to CdChenes and about 10% more than Les Brouillard.

Surprisingly the prices for vintage 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018...are around the same. My guess is : direct import by SAQ.

2015 Les Santenots was at the same price as 2019 ( and yet the product code changed ). I did a pair tastings of the Les Santenots 2015 and 2017 some 6 months ago. The 2017 performed better and was much the preferred bottle. It was more expressive and delicious. I only bought 3 bottles of Les Santenots from vintage 2017. The 2015 definitely was at the closing-down stage and begged for bottle-age so I will keep the rest of 2015 and will not open any bottle more until in the year 2024.

Just my 2 cents.......
Last edited by Peter Chiu on October 16th, 2021, 9:47 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#68 Post by Peter Chiu »

BTY....Neal Martin reported the Les Santenots 2019 was 100% destemed and Les Brouillard was 25% whole-clustered.
Last edited by Peter Chiu on October 13th, 2021, 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#69 Post by Sh@n A »

Any thoughts on Lamarche in 2019?
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#70 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Peter Chiu wrote: October 13th, 2021, 11:50 am Phil .......you have been into too many other wines in SAQ ( except Burgundy ) and hmmmm - please remember all roads will lead into Rome. [swoon.gif]

SAQ has 2 Glantenays.

I much prefer the Bernard Glantenay ( list only the family name in SAQ-web) than George Glantenay for 2 reasons. Bernard in much cheaper and also my preferred producer - due to their house style.

SAQ always carries Bernard 3 1er cru : I only by thier Santenots - which is priced very similar to CdChenes and about 10% more than Les Brouillard.

Surprisingly the prices for vintage 2015, 2016 and 2017 ...are around the same. My guess is : direct import by SAQ.

2015 Les Santenots was at the same price as 2019 ( and yet the product code changed ). I did a pair tastings of the Les Santenots 2015 and 2017 some 6 months ago. The 2017 performed better and was much the preferred bottle. It was more expressive and delicious. Too bad I only bought 3. The 2015 definitely was at the closing-down stage and begged for bottle-age.

Just my 2 cents.......
Peter, with 23.4% of my cellar being Burgundy, I think I'm visiting Rome often enough! :)

The ones coming out are Bernard et Thierry, hence my interest. However, they are 2019. As you know all other vintages are sold out at SAQ.

If I can't get a first hand comparison of Brouillard and Santenots 2019, I might just end up not getting the Village and buying both 1er. Ah well... I tried...

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#71 Post by Peter Chiu »

Phil.....yes.

The 2019 B et T Glantenay ( 2 1ers and Village ) ...should be released on 2021/10/14 ( if not - then should be on 2021/10/21).

Their village Volnay 2019 at $ 54.25 is a steal; and their 1er Les Santenots2019 at $82.75 ....is *highway robbery* -for the 2 following reasons : (a) as they are 2 for 1 when compared with other Volnay - village and 1er cru from other producers: and the 2019 prices are very similar to their 2015 and 2018. Hence my comments that they are most likely *direct importation by SAQ*

If I remembered right ....their 2015, 2016. 2017 and 2018 were on the shelves at SAQ stores for sometimes before they were finally all sold out ......
Last edited by Peter Chiu on October 16th, 2021, 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#72 Post by Dennis Borczon »

William Kelley wrote: February 10th, 2021, 10:15 am
Dennis Borczon wrote: February 10th, 2021, 10:02 am
William Kelley wrote: February 10th, 2021, 7:53 am

Want to bet a bottle of 2019 Clos des Chênes?
With you Mr Kelley, you are on. What are the terms?
Okay, let's say that the 2018 Clos des Chênes, which is currently trading for around 220 USD per bottle, will have hit 450 USD per bottle on the market (from more than one source) within five years of today.

Just to keep the bet alive, the 2018 CdC is averaging $253 on wine searcher. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here...

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#73 Post by Peter Chiu »

Phil T r o t t e r wrote: October 13th, 2021, 12:13 pm
Peter Chiu wrote: October 13th, 2021, 11:50 am Phil .......you have been into too many other wines in SAQ ( except Burgundy ) and hmmmm - please remember all roads will lead into Rome. [swoon.gif]

SAQ has 2 Glantenays.

I much prefer the Bernard Glantenay ( list only the family name in SAQ-web) than George Glantenay for 2 reasons. Bernard in much cheaper and also my preferred producer - due to their house style.

SAQ always carries Bernard 3 1er cru : I only by thier Santenots - which is priced very similar to CdChenes and about 10% more than Les Brouillard.

Surprisingly the prices for vintage 2015, 2016 and 2017 ...are around the same. My guess is : direct import by SAQ.

2015 Les Santenots was at the same price as 2019 ( and yet the product code changed ). I did a pair tastings of the Les Santenots 2015 and 2017 some 6 months ago. The 2017 performed better and was much the preferred bottle. It was more expressive and delicious. Too bad I only bought 3. The 2015 definitely was at the closing-down stage and begged for bottle-age.

Just my 2 cents.......
Peter, with 23.4% of my cellar being Burgundy, I think I'm visiting Rome often enough! :)

The ones coming out are Bernard et Thierry, hence my interest. However, they are 2019. As you know all other vintages are sold out at SAQ.

If I can't get a first hand comparison of Brouillard and Santenots 2019, I might just end up not getting the Village and buying both 1er. Ah well... I tried...
OK.....since many reds from vintage 2019 ...are arriving in Quebec - how about getting it ....up to 25 to 30%.

Watching out for the 2 following 2019 reds by Des Croix 2019 : Des Croix -Les Cents Vignes 2018 (1411-0489- $77) and Des Croix -A-C Les Boutieres 18 (1411-0471 $63).

Both from vintage 2018 ... were flying off .....the on-line sales and SAQ shelves.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#74 Post by Gaudissabois Johan »

Friends,

For the excellent 2019 vintage I added CHAMBERTIN Clos-de-Bèze and Latricières Chambertin Duroché to my shopping list. I also tried to get hold of an allocation of the C DE Vogüé wines. Their MUSIGNY, MUSIGNY BLANC, BONNES MARES and AMOUREUSES remain rare birds but, more importantly, also excellent specimen of their lieu-dits. Can't wait to see what I'll be able of landing here.....

SINCERLY JOHAN

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#75 Post by J Slawney »

Perrot-Minot, D'Angerville, Marchand Tawse, Rousseau, Ponsot, Bouley. For me 2019 is more complete and compelling than 2020, but unfortunately yields were low in 2019.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#76 Post by danupdike »

I haven't seen much as far as 2019's go, there's still a lot of unsold 2017/2018 in U.S. importer/wholesaler inventory. In some cases 2018's were just released. I'm sure logistics has something to do with it.

Personally, I'm looking for up-and-coming producers and the few relative bargains left in the marketplace.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#77 Post by Peter Chiu »

Gaudissabois Johan wrote: October 16th, 2021, 5:37 am Friends,

For the excellent 2019 vintage I added CHAMBERTIN Clos-de-Bèze and Latricières Chambertin Duroché to my shopping list. I also tried to get hold of an allocation of the C DE Vogüé wines. Their MUSIGNY, MUSIGNY BLANC, BONNES MARES and AMOUREUSES remain rare birds but, more importantly, also excellent specimen of their lieu-dits. Can't wait to see what I'll be able of landing here.....

SINCERLY JOHAN
Hi Johan....it is your friend from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

No offense here but just a personal observation.....rare birds .. [scratch.gif] ....hmmm.

Here are the facts :

Vogue is the biggest holder in the 2 g-crus in the village of Chambolle. In Musigny it is 7.12 ha out of 10.85 ha and in Bonnes Mares it is 2.70 ha out of 15.06 ha. Vogue is also one of the 3 largest holders in Amorousness and it is exactly 0% out of 5.40 ha.

In Quebec Canada, we still have Musigny by Vogüé from vintage 2014 and 2017.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#78 Post by William Kelley »

J Slawney wrote: October 16th, 2021, 6:59 am Perrot-Minot, D'Angerville, Marchand Tawse, Rousseau, Ponsot, Bouley. For me 2019 is more complete and compelling than 2020, but unfortunately yields were low in 2019.
You tasted a lot of 2020s already?
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#79 Post by J Slawney »

William Kelley wrote: October 16th, 2021, 9:44 am You tasted a lot of 2020s already?
Not "a lot" but enough 19-20 mini-verticals to extrapolate on their different characters for my own purposes. Also, the general feeling is that 21 will not be so good in quality by comparison to the three preceding vintages. Some winemakers I talked to regretted not reacting to the weather in 21 at the appropriate time and feel their harvest has suffered. I imagine that this low assessment of 21 should play a role in buying decisions for the next few years. But who knows what 22 will bring.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#80 Post by Kirk.Grant »

DanielP wrote: February 9th, 2021, 4:17 pm I'm saving my bullets for 2021, supposed to be a great vintage
Please share this as widely as you can. Make sure everyone knows that 2021 is the vintage to save your money for and 2019's are likely not worth the time. [cheers.gif]
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#81 Post by Sh@n A »

J Slawney wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:08 am
William Kelley wrote: October 16th, 2021, 9:44 am You tasted a lot of 2020s already?
Not "a lot" but enough 19-20 mini-verticals to extrapolate on their different characters for my own purposes. Also, the general feeling is that 21 will not be so good in quality by comparison to the three preceding vintages. Some winemakers I talked to regretted not reacting to the weather in 21 at the appropriate time and feel their harvest has suffered. I imagine that this low assessment of 21 should play a role in buying decisions for the next few years. But who knows what 22 will bring.
what are you hearing about 19 vs. 20 vs. 21?
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#82 Post by Keith Levenberg »

'22 is gonna eat their lunch

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#83 Post by Larry Link »

Sh@n A wrote: October 17th, 2021, 8:00 am
J Slawney wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:08 am
William Kelley wrote: October 16th, 2021, 9:44 am You tasted a lot of 2020s already?
Not "a lot" but enough 19-20 mini-verticals to extrapolate on their different characters for my own purposes. Also, the general feeling is that 21 will not be so good in quality by comparison to the three preceding vintages. Some winemakers I talked to regretted not reacting to the weather in 21 at the appropriate time and feel their harvest has suffered. I imagine that this low assessment of 21
what are you hearing about 19 vs. 20 vs. 21?
Got a feeling '21
Is going to be a good year
Especially if you and me
See it in together…

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#84 Post by J Slawney »

You guys are pretty funny. We all know that 2021 is a "millesimus horribilis" and nothing/nobody will save it, not even the conjoined superpowers of Larry Link and I. Some Burgundy winemakers have lost 80-90% of their crop in 2021 due to frost and hail. Pricing strategies for 20 will reflect the fact that there is hardly anything to sell after it for a year. My purchases will favor 2019 for a good two or three years.
James S.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#85 Post by CCoulson »

Peter Chiu wrote: February 10th, 2021, 5:56 pm With the Chinese factor in Hong Kong, I believe Lafarge and dAngerville will be the next Dujac in 3 years ( if not 5 ) - despite the fact that Volnay is not the real Musigny !!

In Quebec, Canada Prieur Musigny 2008 was released at CA $360; 2015 at CA $839 and now 2017 at CA $1349.50.
There is always de Montille for those that can wait a decade for the stems to integrate.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#86 Post by William Kelley »

J Slawney wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:08 am
William Kelley wrote: October 16th, 2021, 9:44 am You tasted a lot of 2020s already?
Not "a lot" but enough 19-20 mini-verticals to extrapolate on their different characters for my own purposes. Also, the general feeling is that 21 will not be so good in quality by comparison to the three preceding vintages. Some winemakers I talked to regretted not reacting to the weather in 21 at the appropriate time and feel their harvest has suffered. I imagine that this low assessment of 21 should play a role in buying decisions for the next few years. But who knows what 22 will bring.
So far what I'm tasting in 2020 is very interesting indeed. In many cases, alcohols and pHs are a touch lower than in 2020, and the wines are a bit more tightly wound and structured than the 2019s were at the same stage. It also appears to be an excellent white vintage in the making, a sort of 2017+ in style. So I would hold off on writing off 2020 as a whole just yet.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#87 Post by Gerhard P. »

YLee wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:16 pm
Sh@n A wrote: February 9th, 2021, 1:32 pm
YLee wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:55 pm I dont wanna load up too much. Heard 2020 was better than 2019.
Where did you hear this? I thought 2019 was pretty bullish.
I read it from different sources. I cant find the links right now. 2019 is bullish but read 2020 was even better.
No, I wouldn't say "better" (with maybe a few exceptions) but 2020 is overall an excellent vintage, more elegant than 19, less powerful, usually with fine balance, but not as homogenuous, some showed a bit pronounced acidity or drier tannins ... but most are lovely ...
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#88 Post by Howard Cooper »

William Kelley wrote: October 18th, 2021, 2:27 am So I would hold off on writing off 2020 as a whole just yet.
IMHO, people have a tendency to judge Burgundy vintages too quickly. On the one hand, people wrote off vintages like 2000, 2001, 2007, 2013 and 2017 very early and in a few years after harvest the wines started tasting better and better. On the other hand, too many people missed the flaws in the 2004 vintage and encouraged people to buy it. And, 16 years after harvest, nobody knows how the 2005s will turn out.

We should all have more humility and patience in judging vintages.
Howard

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#89 Post by Peter Chiu »

*****No, I wouldn't say "better" (with maybe a few exceptions) but 2020 is overall an excellent vintage, more elegant than 19, less powerful, usually with fine balance, but not as homogenuous, some showed a bit pronounced acidity or drier tannins ... but most are lovely ...****

Gerhard....beautifully put. *Better*....is ....in the eye of the holder.

Please post more often - I missed your opinion....

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#90 Post by Jean Menwa »

Howard Cooper wrote: October 18th, 2021, 4:26 am
William Kelley wrote: October 18th, 2021, 2:27 am So I would hold off on writing off 2020 as a whole just yet.
IMHO, people have a tendency to judge Burgundy vintages too quickly. On the one hand, people wrote off vintages like 2000, 2001, 2007, 2013 and 2017 very early and in a few years after harvest the wines started tasting better and better. On the other hand, too many people missed the flaws in the 2004 vintage and encouraged people to buy it. And, 16 years after harvest, nobody knows how the 2005s will turn out.

We should all have more humility and patience in judging vintages.
2000s were nice drinkers early on - I went through a case of 00 Mugnier fuees...but knowing what they fetch today I wish I didn’t!

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#91 Post by Jean Menwa »

Given the descriptions of 2019, 2020 and 2021, does it draw any similarities to 2009, 2010 and 2011?

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#92 Post by RyanC »

I just picked up some some low-level Cathiard: the Bourgogne Hautes-Cotes de Nuits 'Les Dames Huguettes' and Coteaux Bourguignons 'Les Croix Blanches.' I opened one of the Hautes CdN and it was really lovely. Bright, airy, and silky, with fresh red and dark fruits. Simple but excellent (if expensive) for the level. My first time opening a 2019 and it bodes well for the vintage.
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#93 Post by William Gladstone »

Tmason wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:46 pm Duroche, Fourrier, Hudelot-Noellat, Lamarche. Looking for Arnoux-Lachaux,
The Dom. Arnoux Lachaux we were asked to pick up early November, in a few weeks, after they finish work on the 2021 harvest.
Who knows with the logistics issues when that would arrive.
A dozen other Burgundy Domains with 2019 vintage, picked up in March, is scheduled to arrive November 6.
I'll believe it when the warehouse tells me that has arrived.

I'd have to say a lot of importers will not have the 2019 for months - be patient.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#94 Post by Jeremy Holmes »

2019 is a splendid vintage from top to bottom. Load up!
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#95 Post by A Songeur »

Gerhard P. wrote: October 18th, 2021, 3:46 am
YLee wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:16 pm
Sh@n A wrote: February 9th, 2021, 1:32 pm

Where did you hear this? I thought 2019 was pretty bullish.
I read it from different sources. I cant find the links right now. 2019 is bullish but read 2020 was even better.
No, I wouldn't say "better" (with maybe a few exceptions) but 2020 is overall an excellent vintage, more elegant than 19, less powerful, usually with fine balance, but not as homogenuous, some showed a bit pronounced acidity or drier tannins ... but most are lovely ...
Thanks Gerhard! So, it seems we have a trend over 2018-2020 all excellent vintages:
- 2018 have a lot of matter are more structured, more tannic (but with more matter, so not to worry) and with some acidity, so are real keepers and really for the long term (let them age)
- 2019 have less tannins, less matter but are very ripe and delicious.They will drink earlier than 2018
- then your input about 2020: lovely, more elegant and less powerful than 2019 with fine balance but with less consistency across the board. Would they drink earlier than 2019 in your opinion?
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#96 Post by Greg K »

A Songeur wrote: October 20th, 2021, 2:31 am
Gerhard P. wrote: October 18th, 2021, 3:46 am
YLee wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:16 pm

I read it from different sources. I cant find the links right now. 2019 is bullish but read 2020 was even better.
No, I wouldn't say "better" (with maybe a few exceptions) but 2020 is overall an excellent vintage, more elegant than 19, less powerful, usually with fine balance, but not as homogenuous, some showed a bit pronounced acidity or drier tannins ... but most are lovely ...
Thanks Gerhard! So, it seems we have a trend over 2018-2020 all excellent vintages:
- 2018 have a lot of matter are more structured, more tannic (but with more matter, so not to worry) and with some acidity, so are real keepers and really for the long term (let them age)
- 2019 have less tannins, less matter but are very ripe and delicious.They will drink earlier than 2018
- then your input about 2020: lovely, more elegant and less powerful than 2019 with fine balance but with less consistency across the board. Would they drink earlier than 2019 in your opinion?
I wouldn’t classify 18 as an excellent vintage (I think it’s at best very heterogeneous), but I’ve really liked the 19s and 20s I’ve tasted so far. 20 seems to me to maybe have a bit more power, but that’s an opinion based on barrel samples that’s worth exactly what you’re paying for it. :)
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#97 Post by Peter Chiu »

My view is the same with Greg regarding 2018 and 2019 reds. I have not tasted any 2020 reds yet.

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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#98 Post by Gerhard P. »

Jean Menwa wrote: October 19th, 2021, 6:29 am Given the descriptions of 2019, 2020 and 2021, does it draw any similarities to 2009, 2010 and 2011?
1st I would say that all vintages from 2014 to 2020 are very good, however different (but there are always better wines ... and not so good efforts). Also 2012 (and 2013) are not bad either.

Yes, there are some similarities between 2009/10/11 and 2019/20/(21) ... but also differences.
I wouldn´t say that 2020 is as strong and powerful as 2010, the tannins in 2020 are sweeter, the fruit more velvet and charming, but there is certainly enough structure for long aging. Acidity is lively but not pronounced. They should be drinkable nicely before the 2019s ... but I don´t know if they will close down after a few years in bottle. However some had a dry edge in the finish.

2019 is imho stronger than 2009, helped by the low yields, purity of (very ripe) fruit combined with excellent structure - yes, it was a hot year with high ripeness, but nevertheless the (best) wines are still quite fresh and more transparent (than 2009). They might need longer to develope beyond youthfulness.

All I can say about 2021: in the 1st week of September the producers were longing for another 3 weeks of good weather (I´ve seen still some green grapes in the vineyards) ... however I don´t think they got it as they wished ... I heard about some rainfall and less than perfect weather ... I´ll see next year, but I doubt it will be a really "great" vintage.
A Songeur wrote: October 20th, 2021, 2:31 am
Gerhard P. wrote: October 18th, 2021, 3:46 am
YLee wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:16 pm

I read it from different sources. I cant find the links right now. 2019 is bullish but read 2020 was even better.
No, I wouldn't say "better" (with maybe a few exceptions) but 2020 is overall an excellent vintage, more elegant than 19, less powerful, usually with fine balance, but not as homogenuous, some showed a bit pronounced acidity or drier tannins ... but most are lovely ...
Thanks Gerhard! So, it seems we have a trend over 2018-2020 all excellent vintages:
- 2018 have a lot of matter are more structured, more tannic (but with more matter, so not to worry) and with some acidity, so are real keepers and really for the long term (let them age)
- 2019 have less tannins, less matter but are very ripe and delicious.They will drink earlier than 2018
- then your input about 2020: lovely, more elegant and less powerful than 2019 with fine balance but with less consistency across the board. Would they drink earlier than 2019 in your opinion?
Yes, I think 2020 will be mature earlier than 2019.
I think 2019 has quite a lot of tannins, but kind of hidden behind the ripe fruit - a bit like in 2012 ... I guess the vintage might also shut down a bit like 2012.

reg. 2018: a vintage with a really high level of tannins ... but also with very concentrated fruit. The question might be how the balance eventually will turn out ... which might depend on the producer´s hands in vinification. I guess they will need time in the cellar.

I have a 2018 vintage tasting on Saturday with 12 Burgundies and Rhônes each ... so I´ll see afterwards ...
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Re: 2019 Burgundy -- What are you buying?

#99 Post by Peter Chiu »

merci.....Gerhard

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