Your ideal alcohol level for a medium/full bodied red?

Alcohol content is not the first thing I look at in a wine, however, I do have opinions about it. I have had wines with 15% plus alcohol that were very nicely balanced, but for the most part I prefer a lower level. You hardly see sub 13% anymore…many Bordeaux are still 13% but many are increasing to 13.5-14% or more. Cali fruit bombs are almost guaranteed to be 15% plus these days. Anyway, my ideal level is 13% if I had to pin it down. I’m sure many would dodge the question and just say “it doesn’t matter as long as it is balanced”. But how do you really feel?

I’m with you on the bolded part.

As for Bordeaux, some may be labeled at 13%, but for the classified growths, the levels are frequently much higher in recent years – often 14.5% or higher. Remember that US labeling laws only require the ABV be within 1.5% if it’s under 14%, and within 1.0 if it’s over 14%. So you’re Bordeaux labeled 13% could in fact be 14%, and if it’s 13.5% on the label, it could be 14.5%.

As for the question, I would dodge it because I really think it depends on the rest of the wine, including the grape type. I’ve had reds I’ve liked anywhere from 11.5% to 15%. I can take zins and Barolos at higher ABVs than cabernets or pinots.

I guess I really don’t care as long as the wine is balanced. There dodged it for you. I’ve had “hot” 13% wines and incredible 15%+ wines. Just give me a good wine.
I have noticed more chatter on here lately regarding alcohol levels and using it a point of judgement to buy or not buy a wine. For me that never really entered the picture.

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Grape dependent, as said above and various places.

I don’t think I have ever enjoyed a pinot over 14%, but have had many Zins labeled over 15% that I have really enjoyed. And TBH, I might have enjoyed those over 14 pinots, but would say that they all had the same profile and therefore became “generic ripe pinot”

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I agree with those above, but in the spirit of answering I will say 12-13%.

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I prefer something in the 13.5% to 14.0% range. I hate when I can taste the alcohol on the finish, which happens with most wines that are 15.0% and above. This is a relatively recent shift in my palate, that seems to apply to a wide range of “big red” varietals, including Zin.

I agree with the majority opinion expressed so far, and in blind tastings I often find myself surprised by a high ABV from a wine which seemed quite fresh and seamless to me. Also, as John Morris pointed out, the labels are not necessarily accurate.

This. Most often for sure.

I’m sitting here with my third Loire Cabernet Franc in the last 7-10 days, from the 2018 and 2019 vintages, all over 14%. This current 2019 is at 14.5%. While that may be great for a Chateauneuf du Pape, it sucks for Loire. I’m very disappointed with these three wines, and as my first peek into these vintages, not happy.

Here’s where I play devil’s advocate: if that 2019 had come out 60 or 70 years ago, would it have been disparaged or hailed as exceptional? I’m thinking of the famous 1947 Cheval Blanc, which judging by descriptions would have been thrashed as an overripe mess were it to come out today.

5% - then I could drink twice as much :slight_smile:

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That 47 Cheval Blanc - the mythical unicorn that none of us except for a small few have or will ever taste - has been paraded in front of us for decades about how well a high alcohol wine can show. It’s almost a caricature, frankly. I can tell you that I was critical of some 03 and 05 Loire CFs that busted 14%, so yea, if they came out in the late ‘40s, and I was alive, sure, I’d still say they suck! :wink:. Hasn’t Mark G panned the 47 Cheval?

I tried to drink a 1998 Greenock Creek Roennfeldt Road Shiraz many years ago and couldn’t do it. I’d been excited by the Parker’s 100-point rating and review. But, it was too big and the alcohol was just too much for me. Ended up pouring it out. And, for context, this is when I was regularly drinking high-octane shiraz. I just came across that old review on the Winex website:

100 Points! The 1998 Shiraz Roennfeldt Road (235 cases) is made from yields of .75-1 ton of fruit per acre. The wine possesses the concentration of the greatest classics ever produced in such Bordeaux vintages as 1945, 1947, 1959, 1961, and 1982. This is a full-bodied red with a finish that lasts well over 60 seconds. For its size and concentration, it is, surprisingly, not heavy, just super-endowed. The Shiraz is accessible, but still primary. Unfortunately, quantities are extremely limited for this spectacular, world-class Australian red. - Robert Parker, October 2004

Guess I wouldn’t have liked the 47 Cheval Blanc either…

Alcohol isn’t the enemy balance is … crushing a 15% Bevan at the moment …it’s light on its feet

I agree completely. I love Amarone, and enjoy them from 15-16.5%, where that abv makes no sense for pinot noir or cab franc… even for Barolo or Brunello for that matter.

Which one? Bevan’s wines have been hit and miss with me, especially lately. His 2005 Showket is one of my favorite young Napa cabs. More recently, I liked the 2017 Ontogeny and 2014 Wildfoote Vixen but not the 2014 Ontogeny, which came across as hot.

Everyone has different perceptions of balance, though. I cannot think of a Cab-based wine that I have ever enjoyed at 15%. That is a huge wine. Now for my palate, some Zins and CDPs can handle that, but even with those varietals, I prefer lower ABV.

12-13.5%. I love drinking wine; I hate getting drunk. The older I get, the more easily I feel the affects of alcohol. A wine being balanced isn’t going to reduce the mental impact of alcohol. Amarone is out of the question now. While Barolo and Barbaresco were my wines of choice for decades, at 14-14.5% I now feel mentally dull after two glasses. That 1% really does make a difference. Sure, I could just drink one glass, but I love drinking wine and sometimes wish alcohol wasn’t part of the equation. So now I specifically seek out lower octane PN, whites, and Alto Piedmonte wines and I try to avoid buying wines over 13.5%

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Although there’s plenty of conversation that could be had about 14.0% - 15.0%, I’ll fast-forward through that complicated stuff and say this: if the wine is supposed to be dry and not fortified I’m not buying it if it’s labelled at 15% or higher.

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This.

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