Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

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Top Red Burgundy vintage in the 21st century

2000
0
No votes
2001
2
1%
2002
12
5%
2003
2
1%
2004
4
2%
2005
50
22%
2006
1
0%
2007
0
No votes
2008
1
0%
2009
14
6%
2010
101
44%
2011
1
0%
2012
0
No votes
2013
0
No votes
2014
7
3%
2015
17
7%
2016
11
5%
2017
2
1%
2018
0
No votes
2019
5
2%
 
Total votes: 230

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Fred Bower
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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#201 Post by Fred Bower »

Howard Cooper wrote: January 27th, 2021, 6:54 pm
Fred Bower wrote: January 27th, 2021, 12:49 pm This thread is fun from the bleachers. It prompts me to put a few bottles into the queue to see how I feel about some of the observations about vintage character here.

I have no idea how to select a single vintage, since I have three categories of vintage: disastrous, long-term cellar candidates, and drinkers. While I expect my best drinking experiences to come from properly-timed long-term cellar candidates, I think that the sum-total vinous pleasure I get from drinker vintages might surpass those few unicorns. My acquisition strategy has been to set myself up to be drinking yesteryear's long-term cellar candidates in my autumnal years. If I do it right, the sum will balance out.

Cheers,
fred
Worry less about vintage and more about producer. Find a few producers who make wines in a style you like and the rest will fall into place.
Have been a producer-centric buyer since my very early forays into Burgundy. I do branch out to sample new producers that people turn me onto in "drinker" vintages so that I can check them out without 20 years of patience.

Cheers,
fred

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#202 Post by Greg K »

Peter Chiu wrote: January 28th, 2021, 11:55 am Wonderful discussions. grouphug

****Worry less about vintage and more about producer. Find a few producers who make wines in a style you like and the rest will fall into place.****

I love what Howard said. [dance-clap.gif]
I agree with this........but this is a thread started by Howard about which vintage is the best. If the answer is "completely depends on the producer", then there is literally no point to the thread.
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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#203 Post by Josh Najjar »

Howard Cooper wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 7:13 pm
Mattstolz wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:49 pm

I was thinking the same thing as I have read through the comments on 2005 during this thread. coming from an admittedly early experience level with burgundy, I am not sure why a vintage that is still pretty much pleasureless 15 years after vintage would ever rate over a vintage that provides some actual pleasure at some point. sure, its great that three decades later they will be good but how many people will even actually get to experience that when it does? maybe im just thinking too democratically here, but a great vintage to me provides the most pleasure to the most people. so a vintage like 10 or 16, 17 where theyre already fun and delicious ranks over 2005 for me every time. especially since I don't see any of these wines from the last 10-15 years falling apart any time soon (with exceptions to prove me wrong, of course)
At this point in time, I would not say 2005s are pleasureless. A number of lesser wines are quite good right now and many premier crus and grand crus are very pleasant to drink, but are still pretty primary and not yet developed.

I certainly agree with this comment. I've had a decent number of '05s in the past year that were quite pleasurable. Although I voted for '10, the '05s are already showing signs of being a top vintage.

I should also add that a few '02s I've sampled recently, have been the best bottles I've tasted in quite a few years !

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#204 Post by Peter Chiu »

Greg K wrote: January 28th, 2021, 8:37 pm
Peter Chiu wrote: January 28th, 2021, 11:55 am Wonderful discussions. grouphug

****Worry less about vintage and more about producer. Find a few producers who make wines in a style you like and the rest will fall into place.****

I love what Howard said. [dance-clap.gif]
I agree with this........but this is a thread started by Howard about which vintage is the best. If the answer is "completely depends on the producer", then there is literally no point to the thread.
Hi Greg....you do have some points.

Yes....it was Howard who started the thread. It is a wonderful discussion for the main purpose of *enjoyment of open a red bottle red Burgundy*.

I believe Howard is trying to the point out that there are some basic facts ....for enjoyment of drinking *a red Burgundy*. They are worth repeating : (1) Producers whose style you prefer; (b) Producers whose farm the vineyards you prefer; and (c) Producers whose style go with the weather conditions of your prefer vintage years. Then .....when ....to open the bottle for your enjoyment if also the key. Please also remember, your *best* may not be my *best*. Burgundy collectors age...also..and their taste change with their age. Worse of all, the availability of top red burgundy crafted by top producers are getting hard to buy.

There are burgundy lovers ....who does not ...prefer 2004 reds, and wondering why 2004 red should be included in this discussion.

It is alright to have such an opinion; but on the other hand: why not ? If you just drink Rousseau Chambertin from 2005....and let someone else to drink the 2004....you are missing somethings.
Last edited by Peter Chiu on January 29th, 2021, 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#205 Post by Howard Cooper »

Peter Chiu wrote: January 29th, 2021, 5:14 am
Greg K wrote: January 28th, 2021, 8:37 pm
Peter Chiu wrote: January 28th, 2021, 11:55 am Wonderful discussions. grouphug

****Worry less about vintage and more about producer. Find a few producers who make wines in a style you like and the rest will fall into place.****

I love what Howard said. [dance-clap.gif]
I agree with this........but this is a thread started by Howard about which vintage is the best. If the answer is "completely depends on the producer", then there is literally no point to the thread.
Hi Greg....you do have some points.

Yes....it was Howard who started the thread. It is a wonderful discussion for the main purpose of *enjoyment of open a red bottle red Burgundy*.

I believe Howard is trying to the point out that there are some basic facts ....for enjoyment of drinking *a red Burgundy*. They are worth repeating : (1) Producers whose style you prefer; (b) Producers whose farm the vineyards you prefer; and (c) Producers whose style go with the weather conditions of your prefer vintage years. Then .....when ....to open the bottle for your enjoyment if also the key. Please also remember, your *best* may not be my *best*. Burgundy collectors age...also..and their taste change with their age. Worse of all, the availability of top red burgundy crafted by top producers are getting hard to buy.

There are burgundy lovers ....who does not ...prefer 2004 reds, and wondering why 2004 red should be included in this discussion.

It is alright to have such an opinion; but on the hand: why not ? If you just drink Rousseau Chambertin from 2005....and let someone else to drink the 2004....you are missing somethings.
Don't worry about what Greg says. He knows I have him on ignore because he is obnoxious and is just trying to be even more obnoxious.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#206 Post by Peter Chiu »

Merci....Howard. I accept and have no arguments with many of Greg's opinions and also his statements of facts. Very glad that you did not include the vintages of the 1990s in this thread.

Guess you still remember what Rovani (of the old ParkerB ) when he started the thread : *Parker, Burgundy and Know-Nothingitis* about the 1993 vintage of red burgundy - which he down-grade it a lot......around December 2002 - some to 20 years ago.

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#207 Post by Greg K »

Peter Chiu wrote: January 29th, 2021, 5:14 am
Greg K wrote: January 28th, 2021, 8:37 pm
Peter Chiu wrote: January 28th, 2021, 11:55 am Wonderful discussions. grouphug

****Worry less about vintage and more about producer. Find a few producers who make wines in a style you like and the rest will fall into place.****

I love what Howard said. [dance-clap.gif]
I agree with this........but this is a thread started by Howard about which vintage is the best. If the answer is "completely depends on the producer", then there is literally no point to the thread.
Hi Greg....you do have some points.

Yes....it was Howard who started the thread. It is a wonderful discussion for the main purpose of *enjoyment of open a red bottle red Burgundy*.

I believe Howard is trying to the point out that there are some basic facts ....for enjoyment of drinking *a red Burgundy*. They are worth repeating : (1) Producers whose style you prefer; (b) Producers whose farm the vineyards you prefer; and (c) Producers whose style go with the weather conditions of your prefer vintage years. Then .....when ....to open the bottle for your enjoyment if also the key. Please also remember, your *best* may not be my *best*. Burgundy collectors age...also..and their taste change with their age. Worse of all, the availability of top red burgundy crafted by top producers are getting hard to buy.

There are burgundy lovers ....who does not ...prefer 2004 reds, and wondering why 2004 red should be included in this discussion.

It is alright to have such an opinion; but on the hand: why not ? If you just drink Rousseau Chambertin from 2005....and let someone else to drink the 2004....you are missing somethings.
Peter, I'm not sure I follow your argument. All I am suggesting is that if one reduces vintage discussions to "it doesn't matter, it's all about the producer", then vintage discussion literally doesn't matter. And this is a thread about vintages.

Personally, I think the quality of the producer is most likely determinant of the quality of Burgundy. But controlling for that, vintage certainly matters; that's the question being posed here. Controlling for producer, which vintages are better than others and which are worse? Even good producers make bad wine, after all; often in difficult vintages. I've definitely had some 18s from producers I usually love that I didn't particularly enjoy. (As is true of other vintages.)
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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#208 Post by Howard Cooper »

Peter Chiu wrote: January 29th, 2021, 8:50 am
Guess you still remember what Rovani (of the old ParkerB ) when he started the thread : *Parker, Burgundy and Know-Nothingitis* about the 1993 vintage of red burgundy - which he down-grade it a lot......around December 2002 - some to 20 years ago.
I used to buy wine from Pierre Rovani when he worked in retail at MacArthur Beverages and liked him there. Found him very helpful. But, when he moved to the Wine Advocate, I did not agree with a lot of his views expressed on those pages.
Howard

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#209 Post by maureen nelson »

Well, I finally managed to read this thread in its entirety (I voted last week) - I selected 2010 not only because of its balance and lovely fruit but also because I find it, as a vintage, to have the most sophisticated tannins I've ever experienced in a burgundy vintage. I think the quality of the tannins (which are certainly there) to be the chief reason I love the vintage. I do think they have started to shut down a bit.

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#210 Post by Peter Chiu »

Merci.... Greg.

Please see my comments in post 206. Cheers....

BTW - I voted for 2015; but my heart belongs to 1999. I have no time for all the g-crus 2005 which I had bought years ago....so I let other burgundy lovers to drink them.

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#211 Post by Sh@n A »

Howard, that is a pretty aggressive statement, no? Isn't it fair to say the best vintage would be defined as having the most consistent quality across the vintage, which would obviate the producer discussion? I think that is what Greg was pointing out. In any case I would agree with that definition of what a "best vintage" is. For me I am not sure as I have not tasted widely enough, but it would be 2009, 2015, 2016 or 2010. In order of preference for wines I have tasted, generally red 1er cru, it is 2016, 2009, 2015, 2010.
/ @ g r @ \

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Re: Top Red Burgundy vintage of the 21st century so far

#212 Post by dbailey »

I voted 2010. However, 2 recent bottles of a Drouhin village wine from 2015 were utterly sexy.
Dan

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