Vermouth?

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David Patte
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Vermouth?

#1 Post by David Patte »

I am preparing to launch a vermouth this year and we’ve been experimenting with different recipes. Fruit, floral, herbal and bitter botanicals + grape (Pinot Noir) brandy + rose’ wine (18% ABV). We want our vermouth to be delicious on its own as well being a great cocktail ingredient.

Curious to know your thoughts on how to market this (since most folks will not exactly know what a small batch, highly aromatic vermouth is)? Also, if anyone has access to Jancis Robinson’s newsletter, I sure would love seeing the tasting notes posted in today’s edition (if it is even possible to save as pdf or some such).

Thanks! David
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Re: Vermouth?

#2 Post by Andrew Kotowski »

Two pretty different audiences. I can tell you that I drink Manhattans most nights and I look to Cocktail books and Instagram for my inspiration. Generally centered on Carpano Antica and a Dolin/Punt e Mes mix (suggested by Death & Co), although I've picked up Drapo (Italy) and Vermouth del Professor based on recommendations from stores with liquor sections I trust.

I think it will be much easier (and cheaper) for you to target your audience using Facebook/IG demographic filters for social media campaigns. Find a couple of influencers on the cocktail side and/or do a give away. Would love to help, but at ~420 followers (primarily for steak/pork chops), I'm not your guy ;)
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Re: Vermouth?

#3 Post by Brent C l a y t o n »

Good luck
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Re: Vermouth?

#4 Post by Paul Miller »

Interesting. Keep us posted.

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Re: Vermouth?

#5 Post by David Patte »

Andrew Kotowski wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:49 pm Two pretty different audiences. I can tell you that I drink Manhattans most nights and I look to Cocktail books and Instagram for my inspiration. Generally centered on Carpano Antica and a Dolin/Punt e Mes mix (suggested by Death & Co), although I've picked up Drapo (Italy) and Vermouth del Professor based on recommendations from stores with liquor sections I trust.

I think it will be much easier (and cheaper) for you to target your audience using Facebook/IG demographic filters for social media campaigns. Find a couple of influencers on the cocktail side and/or do a give away. Would love to help, but at ~420 followers (primarily for steak/pork chops), I'm not your guy ;)
Thanks, good advice. A very cool berserker sent me the JRobinson tasting notes so now I can look up the recipes for the vermouth you like! My marketing question centers on the misconception in the U.S. of the term “vermouth” to being with. A complex vermouth can be enjoyed on its own much like a liqueur (e.g. Chartreuse). I’ll definitely put vermouth on the label, but maybe also “botanical-infused wine cocktail” or something similar.
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Re: Vermouth?

#6 Post by David Patte »

Brent C l a y t o n wrote: January 19th, 2021, 6:29 pm Good luck
Thanks! If I can just get people to taste it, they love it. But if I ask “would you like to try my vermouth?” I might as well be speaking a different language.
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Re: Vermouth?

#7 Post by David Patte »

Paul Miller wrote: January 19th, 2021, 6:33 pm Interesting. Keep us posted.
Will do! We came up with a brand name “Tourmaline” which is a rose-colored gemstone (and happens to be my wife’s birthstone, so that’s a nice tie-in). Not Trademarked and that seems fine....
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Re: Vermouth?

#8 Post by Matthew King »

David:

I'm certainly no expert. But I think your main challenge is appealing to a younger demographic. When I think of vermouth, I think of two things: a Martini and a Manhattan. Both of those speak to me of an older, more "corporate," urbane audience. I don't drink those cocktails and don't drink vermouth.

Vermouth feels like something for hardcore drinker or trendy mixologist -- consumed in darkened bars or paneled home study. How do you broaden it's appeal so it feels like something lighter, more "summery"? Something with a spritzer or whatever? I don't have the answers, but those feel like the questions I would be trying to muddle through. Just my two cents. Good luck.
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Re: Vermouth?

#9 Post by Kevin Porter »

I just read about a Philly bottle shop owner making and marketing vermouth. This may interest you. https://www.inquirer.com/food/craig-lab ... 3Dsharebar

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Re: Vermouth?

#10 Post by Siun o'Connell »

Vermouth for sipping became trendy here in Chicago more than 10 years ago with places like Sable having several on tap and a list of many to chose from. I have drunk Vermouth on the rocks as my preferred cocktail for ... hmmmm ... a lot of years ... since the early 80s actually. Several winemakers already produce their own and in the artisanal cocktail scene there are a number of small makers ... I remember the former cocktail manager at The Kitchen gave me one from a father and daughter team producing small batches. Matthiasson makes a lovely one too. Could vermouth become a trend ... I think the influencer suggestion is smart. Also, once restaurants and bars really reopen, a solid program to build a following amongst more innovative restaurant drinks programs would provide the intro such a product would need. That takes a decent investment to break through.

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Re: Vermouth?

#11 Post by Paul Miller »

I’m a little nervous to admit this, but Duckhorn used to make a dry white vermouth they called Eiger (I think). Binny’s (Sam’s) used to carry it. I loved it chilled over ice as an aperitif.

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Re: Vermouth?

#12 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Dan Petroski at Massican makes Vermouth (dry and sweet). I use his and the Matthiasson version quite a bit, but always fall back in Dolan when I run out of the M&M versions.
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Re: Vermouth?

#13 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.
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Re: Vermouth?

#14 Post by Adam Noble »

Best I’ve ever had is Silvio Carta Vermouth di Sardegna. It is great straight. John Paul at Cameron also made one at least once that I enjoyed making cocktails with.

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Re: Vermouth?

#15 Post by Siun o'Connell »

Paul Miller wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 10:57 am I’m a little nervous to admit this, but Duckhorn used to make a dry white vermouth they called Eiger (I think). Binny’s (Sam’s) used to carry it. I loved it chilled over ice as an aperitif.
Carpano makes a nice white btw.

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Re: Vermouth?

#16 Post by Paul Miller »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.
Cochi is my go-to for cocktails. I too am particularly fond of Negronis, and I use The Botanist as my gin.
Last edited by Paul Miller on January 23rd, 2021, 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vermouth?

#17 Post by Dav1d S@wyer »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.
It’s crazy how much our palates seem to align, Marcus!

Negronis are my favorite cocktail now and are really the only cocktails I’ll drink (I do like scotch and Japanese whisky neat though). I’ve settled on Dolin as my preferred Vermouth as of now as well but I’d love to see other recs here.
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Re: Vermouth?

#18 Post by David Patte »

Matthew King wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:35 am David:

I'm certainly no expert. But I think your main challenge is appealing to a younger demographic. When I think of vermouth, I think of two things: a Martini and a Manhattan. Both of those speak to me of an older, more "corporate," urbane audience. I don't drink those cocktails and don't drink vermouth.

Vermouth feels like something for hardcore drinker or trendy mixologist -- consumed in darkened bars or paneled home study. How do you broaden it's appeal so it feels like something lighter, more "summery"? Something with a spritzer or whatever? I don't have the answers, but those feel like the questions I would be trying to muddle through. Just my two cents. Good luck.
Spot on: being that our winery name is “Sun Break” should help ; )
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Re: Vermouth?

#19 Post by David Patte »

Kevin Porter wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:56 am I just read about a Philly bottle shop owner making and marketing vermouth. This may interest you. https://www.inquirer.com/food/craig-lab ... 3Dsharebar
Thanks— fun article. (The only thing is that TTB requires grape brandy, which I make from Pinot Noir Piquette by the way. Also we must submit a recipe for approval so you can’t just make it as you go.... Hope the feds don’t read the article [wow.gif] )
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Re: Vermouth?

#20 Post by David Patte »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.
Right on, Marcus. Good news is that my cocktail-drinking friends tell me our vermouth makes the best-ever Negroni!
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Re: Vermouth?

#21 Post by David Patte »

Siun o'Connell wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 10:45 am Vermouth for sipping became trendy here in Chicago more than 10 years ago with places like Sable having several on tap and a list of many to chose from. I have drunk Vermouth on the rocks as my preferred cocktail for ... hmmmm ... a lot of years ... since the early 80s actually. Several winemakers already produce their own and in the artisanal cocktail scene there are a number of small makers ... I remember the former cocktail manager at The Kitchen gave me one from a father and daughter team producing small batches. Matthiasson makes a lovely one too. Could vermouth become a trend ... I think the influencer suggestion is smart. Also, once restaurants and bars really reopen, a solid program to build a following amongst more innovative restaurant drinks programs would provide the intro such a product would need. That takes a decent investment to break through.
Thanks— I think you’re right, it will be easier to market through bars and restaurants. It may just sit on a retail shelf forever unless I can schedule in-store tasting events (hopefully in 2022; dare we hope for Fall 2021 even?)
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Re: Vermouth?

#22 Post by RichardFlack »

Matthew King wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:35 am David:

I'm certainly no expert. But I think your main challenge is appealing to a younger demographic. When I think of vermouth, I think of two things: a Martini and a Manhattan. Both of those speak to me of an older, more "corporate," urbane audience. I don't drink those cocktails and don't drink vermouth.

Vermouth feels like something for hardcore drinker or trendy mixologist -- consumed in darkened bars or paneled home study. How do you broaden it's appeal so it feels like something lighter, more "summery"? Something with a spritzer or whatever? I don't have the answers, but those feel like the questions I would be trying to muddle through. Just my two cents. Good luck.
Negroni also (red vermouth) - not sure of the demographic on that. My go to summer cocktail.

But I mostly use in cooking (dry vermouth) , various dishes : Veal Marengo, Seafood pasta (loosely derived from Scampi Provencale) etc, a lot of dishes as an alternative to white wine.

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Re: Vermouth?

#23 Post by AstridKG »

David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:29 am
Will do! We came up with a brand name “Tourmaline” which is a rose-colored gemstone (and happens to be my wife’s birthstone, so that’s a nice tie-in). Not Trademarked and that seems fine....
Just FYI, not all tourmaline are rose colored. The most famous of them all, the paraiba, is a glowing bluish green.
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Re: Vermouth?

#24 Post by David Patte »

AstridKG wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 1:36 pm
David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:29 am
Will do! We came up with a brand name “Tourmaline” which is a rose-colored gemstone (and happens to be my wife’s birthstone, so that’s a nice tie-in). Not Trademarked and that seems fine....
Just FYI, not all tourmaline are rose colored. The most famous of them all, the paraiba, is a glowing bluish green.
Yes good point! “Can be rose colored” [cheers.gif]
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Re: Vermouth?

#25 Post by David Patte »

RichardFlack wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 1:20 pm
Matthew King wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:35 am David:

I'm certainly no expert. But I think your main challenge is appealing to a younger demographic. When I think of vermouth, I think of two things: a Martini and a Manhattan. Both of those speak to me of an older, more "corporate," urbane audience. I don't drink those cocktails and don't drink vermouth.

Vermouth feels like something for hardcore drinker or trendy mixologist -- consumed in darkened bars or paneled home study. How do you broaden it's appeal so it feels like something lighter, more "summery"? Something with a spritzer or whatever? I don't have the answers, but those feel like the questions I would be trying to muddle through. Just my two cents. Good luck.
Negroni also (red vermouth) - not sure of the demographic on that. My go to summer cocktail.

But I mostly use in cooking (dry vermouth) , various dishes : Veal Marengo, Seafood pasta (loosely derived from Scampi Provencale) etc, a lot of dishes as an alternative to white wine.
Our recipe is great in a Negroni among others, and neat or on ice with a twist of lime. “Best Negroni I’ve ever had” said a cocktail-loving friend, so I think we’re on the right path [cheers.gif]
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Re: Vermouth?

#26 Post by Mark Morrissette »

I had the chance to try David's vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than "my father's vermouth." I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David's is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)

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Re: Vermouth?

#27 Post by Pat P »

Dolin is my go to Vermouth but would love to find a less mass produced one for sure.
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Re: Vermouth?

#28 Post by David Patte »

Mark Morrissette wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 1:47 pm I had the chance to try David's vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than "my father's vermouth." I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David's is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)
Thanks Mark! The goal is twofold: a great vermouth, in a classic regional, European style, has the complexity and flavors from the floral, fruit, herb and bitter botanicals that make a great aperitif on its own (chilled neat, or on ice, with or without a twist of lime). But also this vermouth should take a Negroni, Manhattan and other cocktails to new heights! I have a cocktail-loving friend who told me our vermouth recipe made the “best Negroni” he’s ever had. So I think we’re on the right path!

But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.
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Re: Vermouth?

#29 Post by David Patte »

Lots of Dolin and Cocchi references. Here a the tasting notes on these two (from JRobinson newsletter). Ours will be less sweet and we’ll keep the recipe somewhat of a secret, but it will not include vanilla : ) and no cinchona (which brings quinine)

Dollin: Savoie-based vermouth company using a recipe based on Alpine herbs and flowers. Lemon-white colour. Smells like crème anglaise with bay leaf. Very sweet. Richness and sweet vanilla, spice and texture corseted in a minty herbaceousness. Marzipan and white chocolate and peach jam, with a glycerol-like texture. Works better with soda water than the Noilly. But somehow makes a bit of a fat martini cocktail – the gin seems to accentuate the vanilla. Works much better with dry sparkling wine and a slice of orange. Went very nicely with a slice of stollen.

Cocchi Americano: Composed using the original 1891 recipe: white Asti wine, cane sugar, and alcohol infused with gentian, artemisia, cinchona, bitter-orange peel, elderflower and other herbs and spices. Jewelled citrine colour. A savoury, woodsy nose, with medicinal Varuna bark and pomelo peel. Sugary sweet lemon meringue followed by very bitter citrus and then delicate flowers. Full body, disjointed components. Definitely needs to be mixed.
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Re: Vermouth?

#30 Post by Jay Miller »

You should consider a Berserkerday offer for next year. I know I'd probably give it a try.

Now I'm wondering how it would do in an Americano...
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Re: Vermouth?

#31 Post by Ian S »

I'm not up to snuff on American geography. Isn't Vermouth in New England?
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Re: Vermouth?

#32 Post by Andrew Kotowski »

Jay Miller wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 4:29 pm You should consider a Berserkerday offer for next year. I know I'd probably give it a try.

Now I'm wondering how it would do in an Americano...
+1

And yeah, I drink Negronis quite a bit, as well... although much less than when I was based in a Europe. Every airport lounge was guaranteed to have gin, vermouth and Campari. Of course I made my own cocktails at the counter :)
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Re: Vermouth?

#33 Post by Pat P »

David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:48 pm But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.
Nonsense, that's just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO [cheers.gif]
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Re: Vermouth?

#34 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Mark Morrissette wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 1:47 pm I had the chance to try David's vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than "my father's vermouth." I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David's is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)
A classic martini has vermouth likely in a 1 to 3 ratio with gin. You may prefer a hint of vermouth, but that isn’t classic.

You are aware of dry vermouth I hope.

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Re: Vermouth?

#35 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:27 pm
David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:48 pm But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.
Nonsense, that's just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO [cheers.gif]
Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. [scratch.gif] Wtf.

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Re: Vermouth?

#36 Post by Pat P »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:48 pm Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. [scratch.gif] Wtf.
I guess you could drink it but, it's not a Martini.
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Re: Vermouth?

#37 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:51 pm
Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:48 pm Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. [scratch.gif] Wtf.
I guess you could drink it but, it's not a Martini.
“ But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.”
Are you making a red vermouth, dry white, sweet white or 2-3 vermouths.

Was the Dolin reviewed the blanco or the dry?

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Re: Vermouth?

#38 Post by Mark Morrissette »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:46 pm You are aware of dry vermouth I hope.
More like, I was only aware of dry vermouth. I am well aware of what the recipe books say the ratio of vermouth to gin is in a martini. But, I also don't know anyone who would ever follow that.

Not to digress into what a "Classic" martini is; the point is David's vermouth is really interesting, and very good. And, not at all like the vermouth I find on the shelves of the local liquor store, and that is a good thing.

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Re: Vermouth?

#39 Post by Alex N »

Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:51 pm
Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:48 pm Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. [scratch.gif] Wtf.
I guess you could drink it but, it's not a Martini.
Sure it is, regardless of what one bartending book or school says vs the next. Some of the old martini recipes call for dry vermouth with the addition of bitters and sugar (and other things), essentially turning the mixers into sweet vermouth.
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Re: Vermouth?

#40 Post by David Patte »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:58 pm
Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:51 pm
Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:48 pm Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. [scratch.gif] Wtf.
I guess you could drink it but, it's not a Martini.
“ But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.”
Are you making a red vermouth, dry white, sweet white or 2-3 vermouths.

Was the Dolin reviewed the blanco or the dry?
It’s listed as the “Dolin, Dry Vermouth de Chambéry, NV, France”
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Re: Vermouth?

#41 Post by TGigante »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:48 pm
Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:27 pm
David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:48 pm But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.
Nonsense, that's just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO [cheers.gif]
Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. [scratch.gif] Wtf.
That is known as a Martinez.
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Re: Vermouth?

#42 Post by David Patte »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:46 pm
Mark Morrissette wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 1:47 pm I had the chance to try David's vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than "my father's vermouth." I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David's is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)
A classic martini has vermouth likely in a 1 to 3 ratio with gin. You may prefer a hint of vermouth, but that isn’t classic.

You are aware of dry vermouth I hope.
Yep, sweet vermouths apparently are north of 10-12% residual sugar, and dry vermouth is under 4% (but hardly ever completely dry, hard to know exactly because most recipes are kept secret). We’re right around the 4% range but a bit higher because we have a fairly high bitter (wormwood and others) and herbal component in addition to the floral and fruit botanicals.
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Re: Vermouth?

#43 Post by David Patte »

Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:27 pm
David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:48 pm But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.
Nonsense, that's just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO [cheers.gif]
Right— I was just channeling the whole Churchill martini trend which I have adhered to and seems prevalent around our friends. From Difford’s Guide “ Legend has it that Sir Winston Churchill liked his Martinis served without the vermouth actually being added to the drink, just present in the same room. He is quoted as saying of the drink, "Glance at the vermouth bottle briefly while pouring the juniper distillate freely."
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Re: Vermouth?

#44 Post by Siun o'Connell »

If you have not seen it, you might find this article from 2017 NYT interesting and I’d also suggest a look at Matthiasson’s page on his vermouth since he is quite informative about his approach ... then taste his since it is delicious!


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/18/dini ... ritif.html

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Re: Vermouth?

#45 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s »

Andrew Kotowski wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:49 pm Two pretty different audiences. I can tell you that I drink Manhattans most nights and I look to Cocktail books and Instagram for my inspiration. Generally centered on Carpano Antica and a Dolin/Punt e Mes mix (suggested by Death & Co), although I've picked up Drapo (Italy) and Vermouth del Professor based on recommendations from stores with liquor sections I trust.

I think it will be much easier (and cheaper) for you to target your audience using Facebook/IG demographic filters for social media campaigns. Find a couple of influencers on the cocktail side and/or do a give away. Would love to help, but at ~420 followers (primarily for steak/pork chops), I'm not your guy ;)
More thread drift: Andrew, I had no idea that Vermouth del Professore was available in the U.S. What's your source?
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Re: Vermouth?

#46 Post by Andrew Kotowski »

La Maison du Whisky ;)
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Re: Vermouth?

#47 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s »

Andrew Kotowski wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 10:06 pm La Maison du Whisky ;)
Well, in that case, next time I'm in Sammamish I'll be grabbing a spare bottle from you! [cheers.gif]
Cheers,
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Re: Vermouth?

#48 Post by Andrew Kotowski »

P@u1_M3nk3s wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 10:43 pm
Andrew Kotowski wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 10:06 pm La Maison du Whisky ;)
Well, in that case, next time I'm in Sammamish I'll be grabbing a spare bottle from you! [cheers.gif]
I lived in Paris (recently) for a couple of years. My supply is tapped, and COVID hasn’t helped things from a restocking perspective.
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Re: Vermouth?

#49 Post by Russell Faulkner »

There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

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Re: Vermouth?

#50 Post by David Patte »

Siun o'Connell wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:37 pm If you have not seen it, you might find this article from 2017 NYT interesting and I’d also suggest a look at Matthiasson’s page on his vermouth since he is quite informative about his approach ... then taste his since it is delicious!


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/18/dini ... ritif.html
Thanks! Eric A does a great job explaining the vermouth ethos. I have definitely been inspired by Bianca Miraglia “Uncouth Vermouth” and have tried hers (great interview on the “I’ll Drink to That” podcast). Will check out Matthiasson, but I like Bianca’s quote: “It should be a creative exploration of whoever is making it” [cheers.gif]
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