Vermouth?

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Re: Vermouth?

#51 Post by David Patte »

Russell Faulkner wrote: January 24th, 2021, 8:11 am There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

Indeed! [cheers.gif]
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Re: Vermouth?

#52 Post by Paul Miller »

Russell Faulkner wrote: January 24th, 2021, 8:11 am There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

[wow.gif]

I would have a blast just taste testing through all of those

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Re: Vermouth?

#53 Post by Andrew Kotowski »

Russell Faulkner wrote: January 24th, 2021, 8:11 am There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

I swear, you’re on the short list of people I want visit and drink/eat with!
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Re: Vermouth?

#54 Post by Russell Faulkner »

Ha. Please come. But we drank those in a couple of weeks.


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Re: Vermouth?

#55 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:22 pm
Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:27 pm
David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 3:48 pm But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.
Nonsense, that's just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO [cheers.gif]
Right— I was just channeling the whole Churchill martini trend which I have adhered to and seems prevalent around our friends. From Difford’s Guide “ Legend has it that Sir Winston Churchill liked his Martinis served without the vermouth actually being added to the drink, just present in the same room. He is quoted as saying of the drink, "Glance at the vermouth bottle briefly while pouring the juniper distillate freely."
I don’t have a problem with people drinking ice cold, dilute gin. No need to pretend it’s a martini.

Also, a NYT article on blanco vermouth especially Dolin https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/dini ... tails.html
In PA, the state only carried Dolin rouge and blanc. Now they carry all three but have yet to seen the dry in a 375.
Ordered a martini at Eddie V’s and they only carried the Dolin blanc as a “white” vermouth. Really bad and warm to boot.

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Re: Vermouth?

#56 Post by Kris Patten »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.
Those Vinum days....hard to break away. I'm lucky to have sold Carpano for quite a while and their new Clasico, Bianco, and Extra Dry line are really best value/quality IMO. Dolin is a bit too cloying personally.

As to the topic, if you're looking for inexpensive Vermouth, Cinzano always came out best in taste tests. If you're willing to branch out Routin, Lacuesta, Mancino, and Yzaguirre offer interesting alternatives.

Its becoming more popular as a stand alone along with a cocktail enhancer....I quite enjoy Vermouth and soda.
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Re: Vermouth?

#57 Post by David Patte »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 24th, 2021, 1:37 pm
David Patte wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 9:22 pm
Pat P wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 5:27 pm

Nonsense, that's just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO [cheers.gif]
Right— I was just channeling the whole Churchill martini trend which I have adhered to and seems prevalent around our friends. From Difford’s Guide “ Legend has it that Sir Winston Churchill liked his Martinis served without the vermouth actually being added to the drink, just present in the same room. He is quoted as saying of the drink, "Glance at the vermouth bottle briefly while pouring the juniper distillate freely."
I don’t have a problem with people drinking ice cold, dilute gin. No need to pretend it’s a martini.

Also, a NYT article on blanco vermouth especially Dolin https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/dini ... tails.html
In PA, the state only carried Dolin rouge and blanc. Now they carry all three but have yet to seen the dry in a 375.
Ordered a martini at Eddie V’s and they only carried the Dolin blanc as a “white” vermouth. Really bad and warm to boot.
Thanks for the NYTimes article. Hadn’t seen this one. My thinking to date is that my base wine will be a rosé to visually represent that the recipe is between the red and the dry (similar to what is described in the article for the blancs/biancos). Also it’s beautiful in clear bottle and sets us apart a bit....
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Re: Vermouth?

#58 Post by Brent C l a y t o n »

A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean 'sweet' vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, 'red' vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David's product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.
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Re: Vermouth?

#59 Post by Kris Patten »

Brent C l a y t o n wrote: January 25th, 2021, 10:31 am A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean 'sweet' vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, 'red' vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David's product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.
When I'm "not drinking" I'll have vermouth and soda in a tall glass. In reading thru some of this it doesn't necessarily seem like David is producing Vermouth, more of an aromatized wine akin to Lillet.

This category needs to figure out how to get 2 or 3 oz. in a glass, not 0.5 oz.

I'd be looking to partner with a craft soda producer.
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Re: Vermouth?

#60 Post by Brent C l a y t o n »

Kris,

Are you familiar with St Agrestis out of Brooklyn? They have really taken off. They started with an amaro, moved into RTD cocktails, and now have an apertivo and RTD spritz.

That is definitely the way to go!
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Re: Vermouth?

#61 Post by Kris Patten »

Brent C l a y t o n wrote: January 25th, 2021, 11:15 am Kris,

Are you familiar with St Agrestis out of Brooklyn? They have really taken off. They started with an amaro, moved into RTD cocktails, and now have an apertivo and RTD spritz.

That is definitely the way to go!
I'm not, but the Scrappy's team build a spritz out here with Fasel Shenstone and Mancino. Good to see people trying.
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Re: Vermouth?

#62 Post by David Patte »

Brent C l a y t o n wrote: January 25th, 2021, 10:31 am A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean 'sweet' vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, 'red' vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David's product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.
Hear, hear! I can’t quite say it as well as the Jancis R newsletter so here ‘tis: “ In her evocative, fascinating and instructive article, How to taste vermouth, Arnica Rowan discussed how we need to take a different, broader approach when tasting vermouth. Exploring the wine for flavours takes the drinker down entirely new pathways – into the forest, across scrubland, to the seashore and into the secret room of the apothecary. This is wine, but wine with a mystical, medicinal mien. With vermouth, everything is more intense: colour, flavour, texture, sweetness, bitterness, aroma. Vermouth has an inbuilt acuteness, vehemence. It can be challenging for the novice, but thrilling for the adventurous.

It comes in a flamboyant spectrum of styles, from eye-wateringly dry, bitter and white to tooth-rottingly sweet, concentrated and dark, with almost every colour, combination and riff one can possibly imagine in the in-between. Whether you're a strictly-wine-only drinker or a cocktail lover, there really is something for every taste in this curious-concoction universe.”
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Re: Vermouth?

#63 Post by David Patte »

Kris Patten wrote: January 25th, 2021, 11:12 am
Brent C l a y t o n wrote: January 25th, 2021, 10:31 am A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean 'sweet' vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, 'red' vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David's product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.
When I'm "not drinking" I'll have vermouth and soda in a tall glass. In reading thru some of this it doesn't necessarily seem like David is producing Vermouth, more of an aromatized wine akin to Lillet.

This category needs to figure out how to get 2 or 3 oz. in a glass, not 0.5 oz.

I'd be looking to partner with a craft soda producer.
Yes, it can be flexible this way. Neat (only 18%ABV...) on ice, or as you suggest with soda or in cocktails. Ours will definitely be in the vermouth wheelhouse with bitter and herbal botanicals along with the fruit and floral. And one key secret is starting with good acidity in the base wine. Don’t get me wrong, I like white Lillet for what it is, but we’re not very close to this profile with the addition of bitters and herbal component layered on the floral and fruit [cheers.gif]
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Re: Vermouth?

#64 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Kris Patten wrote: January 24th, 2021, 8:21 pm
Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.
Those Vinum days....hard to break away. I'm lucky to have sold Carpano for quite a while and their new Clasico, Bianco, and Extra Dry line are really best value/quality IMO. Dolin is a bit too cloying personally.

As to the topic, if you're looking for inexpensive Vermouth, Cinzano always came out best in taste tests. If you're willing to branch out Routin, Lacuesta, Mancino, and Yzaguirre offer interesting alternatives.

Its becoming more popular as a stand alone along with a cocktail enhancer....I quite enjoy Vermouth and soda.
Dolin was definitely an addition from my days at Vinum. I still prefer it, but don’t use the Blanc much. That is a bit sweet for me. The Rouge is light on it’s feet(and relatively easy to find in rural Oregon) and it works well.
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Re: Vermouth?

#65 Post by Kris Patten »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 25th, 2021, 9:46 pm
Kris Patten wrote: January 24th, 2021, 8:21 pm
Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.
Those Vinum days....hard to break away. I'm lucky to have sold Carpano for quite a while and their new Clasico, Bianco, and Extra Dry line are really best value/quality IMO. Dolin is a bit too cloying personally.

As to the topic, if you're looking for inexpensive Vermouth, Cinzano always came out best in taste tests. If you're willing to branch out Routin, Lacuesta, Mancino, and Yzaguirre offer interesting alternatives.

Its becoming more popular as a stand alone along with a cocktail enhancer....I quite enjoy Vermouth and soda.
Dolin was definitely an addition from my days at Vinum. I still prefer it, but don’t use the Blanc much. That is a bit sweet for me. The Rouge is light on it’s feet(and relatively easy to find in rural Oregon) and it works well.
Haus Alpenz had some very cool product, many way ahead of their time, like Genepy, and were forward thinking with aromatized wine.
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Re: Vermouth?

#66 Post by Jeff_M. »

Had some Vermouth at Trinchero 2 years back and it was really good.
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Re: Vermouth?

#67 Post by Kris Patten »

Jeff_M. wrote: January 26th, 2021, 7:07 am Had some Vermouth at Trinchero 2 years back and it was really good.
They actually sell it now, Trincheri Vermouth.
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Re: Vermouth?

#68 Post by Russell Faulkner »

Currently have Dolin and Punt E Mes open. Prefer the latter for sipping and in a Negroni.
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Re: Vermouth?

#69 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

I replaced my Old Fashioned with a Negroni about 2 years ago as my daily cocktail. Currently, I use Guerra Blanco Reserva for my pink Negroni and Padro & Co for my regular one.

As a sipper, I prefer Adi Badenhorst's Caperitif. Also big shout out to a local product called: L'Amer from Clos Saragnat which is a deeply bitter apéritif cider.

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Re: Vermouth?

#70 Post by Kelly Walker »

Anyone know of or tried D'Pampe Pamplemousse Vermouth? I was gifted a bottle by a distributor friend. Made in Napa. A rosato I assume made from grapefruit along with other spices. Have yet to open. 17%.
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Re: Vermouth?

#71 Post by Ian H »

Andrew Kotowski wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:49 pm Two pretty different audiences. I can tell you that I drink Manhattans most nights and I look to Cocktail books and Instagram for my inspiration. Generally centered on Carpano Antica and a Dolin/Punt e Mes mix (suggested by Death & Co), although I've picked up Drapo (Italy) and Vermouth del Professor based on recommendations from stores with liquor sections I trust.

I think it will be much easier (and cheaper) for you to target your audience using Facebook/IG demographic filters for social media campaigns. Find a couple of influencers on the cocktail side and/or do a give away. Would love to help, but at ~420 followers (primarily for steak/pork chops), I'm not your guy ;)
When I make a Manhattan those are my go-to's as well. Really like Carpano and also really like Punt e Mes. They're quite different, so not sure what that says about my preferences apart from appreciating quality and variety.
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Re: Vermouth?

#72 Post by David Patte »

Kelly Walker wrote: January 26th, 2021, 1:33 pm Anyone know of or tried D'Pampe Pamplemousse Vermouth? I was gifted a bottle by a distributor friend. Made in Napa. A rosato I assume made from grapefruit along with other spices. Have yet to open. 17%.
Sorry, no. I checked the JancisR newsletter review and they didn’t taste this one...
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Re: Vermouth?

#73 Post by Oliver McCrum »

We have started importing several Italian craft vermouths, and I'm drinking them with great pleasure, particularly before dinner with soda or tonic. I never would have thought it 20 years ago.
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Re: Vermouth?

#74 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Kris Patten wrote: January 25th, 2021, 11:12 am
Brent C l a y t o n wrote: January 25th, 2021, 10:31 am A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean 'sweet' vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, 'red' vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David's product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.
When I'm "not drinking" I'll have vermouth and soda in a tall glass. In reading thru some of this it doesn't necessarily seem like David is producing Vermouth, more of an aromatized wine akin to Lillet.

This category needs to figure out how to get 2 or 3 oz. in a glass, not 0.5 oz.

I'd be looking to partner with a craft soda producer.
I’ve never seen the Lillet Dry which likely is an aromatized wine, the Lillet Blanc in the USA seems like a crappy version of pineau d anuis.

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Re: Vermouth?

#75 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Oliver McCrum wrote: January 27th, 2021, 12:43 pm We have started importing several Italian craft vermouths, and I'm drinking them with great pleasure, particularly before dinner with soda or tonic. I never would have thought it 20 years ago.
I’ll have to try vermouth with soda. Seems like you’d have to add less soda than an americano. Tonic as a mixer doesn’t interest me, too associated with G&T.

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Re: Vermouth?

#76 Post by Mark Morrissette »

I tried David's vermouth with soda water last night. First time I have ever tried vermouth and soda. Really nice, refreshing drink, with the added bonus of a lot of complexity. I will definitely be exploring this more.

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Re: Vermouth?

#77 Post by Oliver McCrum »

Tom G l a s g o w wrote: January 27th, 2021, 5:40 pm
Oliver McCrum wrote: January 27th, 2021, 12:43 pm We have started importing several Italian craft vermouths, and I'm drinking them with great pleasure, particularly before dinner with soda or tonic. I never would have thought it 20 years ago.
I’ll have to try vermouth with soda. Seems like you’d have to add less soda than an americano. Tonic as a mixer doesn’t interest me, too associated with G&T.
Right, I prefer soda. And a squeeze of lemon. I love Negronis but that's a lot of alcohol to start off the evening.
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Re: Vermouth?

#78 Post by Russell Faulkner »

The Oiseau Rebelle BRMTH (in the small bottle) is very odd. Its orange, cloudy, full of pithy skin contact extract and dry (3g/l). It's not technically a vermouth as it's not fortified or infused, but it reminded the producer of one. 17% alcohol from spontaneous fermentation of Grenache Noir. Pricey at e33 per 50cl but worth investigating.
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Re: Vermouth?

#79 Post by Joseph Grassa »

David Patte wrote: January 15th, 2021, 9:34 am I am preparing to launch a vermouth this year and we’ve been experimenting with different recipes. Fruit, floral, herbal and bitter botanicals + grape (Pinot Noir) brandy + rose’ wine (18% ABV). We want our vermouth to be delicious on its own as well being a great cocktail ingredient.

Curious to know your thoughts on how to market this (since most folks will not exactly know what a small batch, highly aromatic vermouth is)? Also, if anyone has access to Jancis Robinson’s newsletter, I sure would love seeing the tasting notes posted in today’s edition (if it is even possible to save as pdf or some such).

Thanks! David
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Has this hit the market? I am in the market for some vermouth and would love to go with a berserker.

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Re: Vermouth?

#80 Post by John Kight »

Dav1d S@wyer wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 12:26 pm Negronis are my favorite cocktail now and are really the only cocktails I’ll drink (I do like scotch and Japanese whisky neat though). I’ve settled on Dolin as my preferred Vermouth as of now as well but I’d love to see other recs here.
Even worse thread drift now, but: I also love Negronis (and Negroni variations). But I also love the Boulevardier (itself a Negroni variation of sorts).

I most often drink Negroni in Spring/Summer and Boulevardier in Fall/Winter. In both drinks, I prefer 1.5 (or 1.75) parts Gin/Bourbon to 1 part Campari & 1 part Vermouth rather than the 1:1:1 "official" recipe.

Ultimately, Campari is just a badass liquor, especially for being such a mass-produced, commercial, ubiquitous drink. The color is amazing and the uniquely odd "base" flavor (ignoring some of the exotic components and the bitter/sweet aspect) is something between tahini/sesame seeds and peanut butter.

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Re: Vermouth?

#81 Post by David Patte »

Joseph Grassa wrote: May 4th, 2021, 1:45 pm
David Patte wrote: January 15th, 2021, 9:34 am I am preparing to launch a vermouth this year and we’ve been experimenting with different recipes. Fruit, floral, herbal and bitter botanicals + grape (Pinot Noir) brandy + rose’ wine (18% ABV). We want our vermouth to be delicious on its own as well being a great cocktail ingredient.

Curious to know your thoughts on how to market this (since most folks will not exactly know what a small batch, highly aromatic vermouth is)? Also, if anyone has access to Jancis Robinson’s newsletter, I sure would love seeing the tasting notes posted in today’s edition (if it is even possible to save as pdf or some such).

Thanks! David
Sun Break Wine and Cider (and Vermouth!)
Has this hit the market? I am in the market for some vermouth and would love to go with a berserker.
Thanks for checking! We are working on a July or August release. Decided to release the rosé vermouth with a red one and I’m still working with a couple of cocktail experts on fine-tuning the ingredients. This is the fun part! But also, the logistics for a new label and artwork take sooooo much time (the bottle companies have been slow too!)
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Re: Vermouth?

#82 Post by Siun o'Connell »

That is great news - two to look forward to!

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Re: Vermouth?

#83 Post by John Kight »

Someone (the OP?) could make a fortune selling tiny bottles of vermouth....187ml or 250ml. It's tough to find (except Carpano Antico has the 375ml bottles), and I wind up throwing so much vermouth down the drain (or using the old stuff to marinate chicken or cook).

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Re: Vermouth?

#84 Post by Rodrigo B »

John Kight wrote: May 5th, 2021, 4:14 pm Someone (the OP?) could make a fortune selling tiny bottles of vermouth....187ml or 250ml. It's tough to find (except Carpano Antico has the 375ml bottles), and I wind up throwing so much vermouth down the drain (or using the old stuff to marinate chicken or cook).
Dolin also does 375ml bottles. I put a Repour cork on my vermouths and stick them in the fridge, makes them last much longer.
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Re: Vermouth?

#85 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Siun o'Connell wrote: May 5th, 2021, 3:08 pm That is great news - two to look forward to!
But what of shipping?

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Re: Vermouth?

#86 Post by Mark Morrissette »

John Kight wrote: May 5th, 2021, 4:14 pm Someone (the OP?) could make a fortune selling tiny bottles of vermouth....187ml or 250ml. It's tough to find (except Carpano Antico has the 375ml bottles), and I wind up throwing so much vermouth down the drain (or using the old stuff to marinate chicken or cook).
I made a very similar comment to David (the OP) a while back. Then, I tried a beta-version bottle of his Vermouth (750 ml), and drank it all in two weeks. This is a very different beast from the "normal" vermouth I am used to buying to put a few drops in a martini. This was wonderful on its own, mixed with soda water and in cocktails. I had no trouble finishing a bigger bottle!

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Re: Vermouth?

#87 Post by David Patte »

John Kight wrote: May 5th, 2021, 4:14 pm Someone (the OP?) could make a fortune selling tiny bottles of vermouth....187ml or 250ml. It's tough to find (except Carpano Antico has the 375ml bottles), and I wind up throwing so much vermouth down the drain (or using the old stuff to marinate chicken or cook).
Something to consider, thanks! Will run this by my retail and distributor contacts but as Mark mentions, I am aiming for a very pleasing and complex vermouth that is delicious on its own*. But also great with various cocktails. Hopefully these are so tempting that they become impossible to ignore once opened!

(*That’s my French Provençal/Alpine background; we would drink vermouth on ice as an aperitif wine with appetizers during the 6-ish period (because dinner was never earlier than 8pm— not quite the Spanish extreme.)
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Re: Vermouth?

#88 Post by Russell Faulkner »

I can't imagine a good Vermouth lasting long enough to go bad. We even stock a sulphur free one in litre bottles that lasts on 5 days or so in the fridge and never gets beyond day 2.
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Re: Vermouth?

#89 Post by Siun o'Connell »

David Patte wrote: May 6th, 2021, 11:20 am
(*That’s my French Provençal/Alpine background; we would drink vermouth on ice as an aperitif wine with appetizers during the 6-ish period (because dinner was never earlier than 8pm— not quite the Spanish extreme.)
My only addition is an occasional twist of lemon. The perfect way to shift from day to dinner.

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Re: Vermouth?

#90 Post by David Patte »

Siun o'Connell wrote: May 6th, 2021, 11:32 am
David Patte wrote: May 6th, 2021, 11:20 am
(*That’s my French Provençal/Alpine background; we would drink vermouth on ice as an aperitif wine with appetizers during the 6-ish period (because dinner was never earlier than 8pm— not quite the Spanish extreme.)
My only addition is an occasional twist of lemon. The perfect way to shift from day to dinner.
Yes, Perfect! Twist of lime is great with my rosé vermouth, but you can take it in other directions with a twist of lemon or orange.
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Re: Vermouth?

#91 Post by Jerry Hey »

I visited Noilly Pratt in the south of France a couple years ago. Quite an amazing operation and they have four kinds of Vermouth that we sampled, and then chose our favorite and got a glass of that. My was the rouge with a twist of orange peel. There is dry, extra dry (for the USA) rouge, and amber.

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Re: Vermouth?

#92 Post by John Kight »

Russell Faulkner wrote: May 6th, 2021, 11:24 am I can't imagine a good Vermouth lasting long enough to go bad. We even stock a sulphur free one in litre bottles that lasts on 5 days or so in the fridge and never gets beyond day 2.
It's not that I wouldn't enjoy it or would have trouble consuming it. My problem is simply that I drink wine (traditional, non-fortified/aromatized wine) every night, and my alcohol consumption is already at what I consider to be my max limit. I sometimes enjoy a cocktail with vermouth, and would very occasionally be willing to have a glass of vermouth in lieu of one glass of wine. But any time I do either, it's a zero-sum game. I have to give up a glass of wine to have a cocktail or vermouth. As a result, I probably have a cocktail only once (occasionally twice) per week...and certainly, they don't ALL involve vermouth (though at least half of them do--i.e. a Negroni or Boulevardier). However, further complicating matters, I will sometimes have both a dry and sweet vermouth open at once to allow for a variety of cocktails....

The result is that it would be impossible for me to finish most of my open bottles of vermouth over a period of days, since, on 28 out of 30 nights, I'm simply not willing to forego drinking wine to have something else....at most, about once per week, I'm willing to have a single drink of something else (meaning I'll cut my wine consumption by about a glass).
Last edited by John Kight on May 7th, 2021, 6:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Vermouth?

#93 Post by David Patte »

Jerry Hey wrote: May 6th, 2021, 6:09 pm I visited Noilly Pratt in the south of France a couple years ago. Quite an amazing operation and they have four kinds of Vermouth that we sampled, and then chose our favorite and got a glass of that. My was the rouge with a twist of orange peel. There is dry, extra dry (for the USA) rouge, and amber.
Nice! My aunt and uncle used to live right there in Marseillan (and now across the bay at Balaruc
-les-Bains) so I’ll need to check it out next time. Didn’t know, so thanks for pointing this out. Did you visit the black sand beaches of Adge, and Sete? And did you try the Muscat de Frontignan? A local favorite non-aromatized aperitif wine.
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Re: Vermouth?

#94 Post by David Patte »

John Kight wrote: May 7th, 2021, 6:34 am
Russell Faulkner wrote: May 6th, 2021, 11:24 am I can't imagine a good Vermouth lasting long enough to go bad. We even stock a sulphur free one in litre bottles that lasts on 5 days or so in the fridge and never gets beyond day 2.
It's not that I wouldn't enjoy it or would have trouble consuming it. My problem is simply that I drink wine (traditional, non-fortified/aromatized wine) every night, and my alcohol consumption is already at what I consider to be my max limit. I sometimes enjoy a cocktail with vermouth, and would very occasionally be willing to have a glass of vermouth in lieu of one glass of wine. But any time I do either, it's a zero-sum game. I have to give up a glass of wine to have a cocktail or vermouth. As a result, I probably have a cocktail only once (occasionally twice) per week...and certainly, they don't ALL involve vermouth (though at least half of them do--i.e. a Negroni or Boulevardier). However, further complicating matters, I will sometimes have both a dry and sweet vermouth open at once to allow for a variety of cocktails....

The result is that it would be impossible for me to finish most of my open bottles of vermouth over a period of days, since, on 28 out of 30 nights, I'm simply not willing to forego drinking wine to have something else....at most, I'm willing to have a single drink of something else (meaning I'll cut my wine consumption by about a glass).
I certainly can relate. I will sometimes have a heritage-style dry cider with certain dishes (spicy Mexican or Thai, etc) but usually wine. The body can only process one serving of alcohol per hour so if I’m having a cocktail or aperitif wine it has to be during the 6 pm dinner prep. or visiting with guests before the 7/8/9pm meal! (And I don’t want a high ABV cocktail.)

If you get a well balanced, not to sweet vermouth, this can an make a low ABV cocktail on its own. The keys IMHO are great flavors with good acidity in the base wine so that the Vermouth is not cloying (Willamette Valley wines are perfect); no over-the-top perfume-like aromatics and flavors; and no over-the-top medicinal-style flavors (e.g., overuse of quinine, and a basket full of overly medicinal tasting herbs and roots).... There’s nothing wrong with the “over-the-top” styles and their traditions but they tend to be primarily for cocktails and a bartenders secret weapon.
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Re: Vermouth?

#95 Post by Jerry Hey »

David Patte wrote: May 7th, 2021, 6:46 am
Jerry Hey wrote: May 6th, 2021, 6:09 pm I visited Noilly Pratt in the south of France a couple years ago. Quite an amazing operation and they have four kinds of Vermouth that we sampled, and then chose our favorite and got a glass of that. My was the rouge with a twist of orange peel. There is dry, extra dry (for the USA) rouge, and amber.
Nice! My aunt and uncle used to live right there in Marseillan (and now across the bay at Balaruc
-les-Bains) so I’ll need to check it out next time. Didn’t know, so thanks for pointing this out. Did you visit the black sand beaches of Adge, and Sete? And did you try the Muscat de Frontignan? A local favorite non-aromatized aperitif wine.
We were on a barge trip from Bezier to Carcasonne, but this was a side trip as was the Abbaye de Fontfroide, and Narbonne. Lovely area.

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