K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

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K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#1 Post by Tom Lee »

Just found out that as of this past Monday K&L will no longer ship to WA. I really wanted that 19 Lapierre. Damn.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#2 Post by Brandon R »

Weird. I wonder why. Seems to me there has long been pretty easy shipping between California and Washington. Must be more economics-based than anything having to do with restrictions or shipping laws I would think.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#3 Post by Rodrigo B »

They seem to be shipping to less and less places nowadays. Don't think the WA move was one due to any regulatory restrictions, but rather an economic one as Brandon noticed.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#4 Post by Curtis Chen »

That's surprising. Also, now I want some 19 Lapierre.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#5 Post by MikeL238 »

Rodrigo B wrote: January 13th, 2021, 9:46 am They seem to be shipping to less and less places nowadays. Don't think the WA move was one due to any regulatory restrictions, but rather an economic one as Brandon noticed.
I've noticed that as well-wonder what's the reasoning behind this.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#6 Post by Rodrigo B »

MikeL238 wrote: January 13th, 2021, 10:30 am
Rodrigo B wrote: January 13th, 2021, 9:46 am They seem to be shipping to less and less places nowadays. Don't think the WA move was one due to any regulatory restrictions, but rather an economic one as Brandon noticed.
I've noticed that as well-wonder what's the reasoning behind this.
Here's my working theory:
The big hit to K&L came when they stopped being able to ship to many of the East Coast states. Eventually some of that East Coast clientele continued to purchase from them and route their purchases through other third parties like Domaine. After adjusting to that, they eventually they realised that there's a bunch of compliance costs to be able to ship to a wide variety of states and made a more concerted effort to focus on the states where the have a large client base and lower barriers to ship drop the smaller volume or more troublesome states
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#7 Post by Greg Gardner »

Yeah, I was gonna jump on the 19 Bedrock Sonoma SBs that are on closeout for $17, only to discover they won't ship here as of this week. Their customer service was as responsive as always, but didn't provide any explanation. Just confirmed that they no longer ship up here and that they have no other info on it. Sad to lose them as a retail source, but I suppose it just means more of my money will go to local shops.

It was always weird to me that they only shipped via GSO/GLS and not FedEx, UPS etc but I never minded as I've always had good experiences with GSO (I'm in the minority there, I know). I guess it wasn't worth the hassle to them anymore.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#8 Post by ehrlichdy »

Yet somehow their auction prices are generally high, sometimes absurdly so, when compared to retail or recent auction pricing. I guess there is plenty splashing around CA.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#9 Post by Chuck Schmeling »

They stopped shipping to Arizona as well. What changed?

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#10 Post by Al Osterheld »

I think Washington allows out of state wineries to ship to consumers, but not out of state retailers. Maybe they stepped up enforcement?

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#11 Post by Scott E. »

Greg Gardner wrote: January 13th, 2021, 11:26 am
It was always weird to me that they only shipped via GSO/GLS and not FedEx, UPS etc but I never minded as I've always had good experiences with GSO (I'm in the minority there, I know). I guess it wasn't worth the hassle to them anymore.
Must be an economic/business issue since they quit shipping to Nevada via UPS a couple of years ago, but still (at least through December 2020) ship to me via FedEx? Cheers!
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#12 Post by Bob Davis »

The onlyretialer I found so far shipping to Virginia sent me s9e bourbon. Probably on the down low. But I’m close enough to DC to ship there. They essentially have no shipping laws.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#13 Post by Michael Fess »

Tired to buy some Armagnac last week from them and they will only ship spirits within CA. They have a great selection, too bad it has been limited.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#14 Post by Greg Gardner »

Al Osterheld wrote: January 13th, 2021, 1:43 pm I think Washington allows out of state wineries to ship to consumers, but not out of state retailers. Maybe they stepped up enforcement?

-Al
Al, that’s what I think too. But there are plenty of retailers who will ship here, so I suspect this was an economic decision that finally tipped to ‘not worth the hassle/risk’

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#15 Post by Doug Uno »

Sorry to hear that since I’ve purchased from them in the past. Does anybody know if they still ship to Oregon?

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#16 Post by Tom Lee »

LA Wine Co, Kermit Lynch and Woodland Hills have all shipped to me in WA in the past month.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#17 Post by Wes Barton »

Scott E. wrote: January 13th, 2021, 1:53 pm
Greg Gardner wrote: January 13th, 2021, 11:26 am
It was always weird to me that they only shipped via GSO/GLS and not FedEx, UPS etc but I never minded as I've always had good experiences with GSO (I'm in the minority there, I know). I guess it wasn't worth the hassle to them anymore.
Must be an economic/business issue since they quit shipping to Nevada via UPS a couple of years ago, but still (at least through December 2020) ship to me via FedEx? Cheers!
Their local delivery (I think they do some themselves, but are way beyond capability with the covid thing) is a FedEx service, I believe. Who offers the best price and quality of service varies greatly by region. We see every shipper praised as the best and condemned as the worst. That can be due to a regional manager or individual employee. GSO started as a stellar service, out-competing the competition, and remains so n many regions, but it seems they had trouble expanding into others.

K&L seems to be thriving. I could understand them getting to the point where shipping to certain places that devastate their margins, for whatever reasons, just isn't worth it. Doesn't mean they're happy about it.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#18 Post by Al Osterheld »

Greg Gardner wrote: January 13th, 2021, 5:13 pm
Al Osterheld wrote: January 13th, 2021, 1:43 pm I think Washington allows out of state wineries to ship to consumers, but not out of state retailers. Maybe they stepped up enforcement?

-Al
Al, that’s what I think too. But there are plenty of retailers who will ship here, so I suspect this was an economic decision that finally tipped to ‘not worth the hassle/risk’
Possibly, but I'd be surprised. They apparently still ship to Idaho and Wyoming which seem unlikely to be large markets.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#19 Post by Mike Wenzel »

Wes Barton wrote: January 13th, 2021, 5:56 pm
Scott E. wrote: January 13th, 2021, 1:53 pm
Greg Gardner wrote: January 13th, 2021, 11:26 am
It was always weird to me that they only shipped via GSO/GLS and not FedEx, UPS etc but I never minded as I've always had good experiences with GSO (I'm in the minority there, I know). I guess it wasn't worth the hassle to them anymore.
Must be an economic/business issue since they quit shipping to Nevada via UPS a couple of years ago, but still (at least through December 2020) ship to me via FedEx? Cheers!
Their local delivery (I think they do some themselves, but are way beyond capability with the covid thing) is a FedEx service, I believe. Who offers the best price and quality of service varies greatly by region. We see every shipper praised as the best and condemned as the worst. That can be due to a regional manager or individual employee. GSO started as a stellar service, out-competing the competition, and remains so n many regions, but it seems they had trouble expanding into others.

K&L seems to be thriving. I could understand them getting to the point where shipping to certain places that devastate their margins, for whatever reasons, just isn't worth it. Doesn't mean they're happy about it.
All my local deliveries have been a person in what appears to be their own cars, no UPS, FedEx, etc....

The local delivery option if awesome since you can hold wine until you get to the threshold for free delivery and schedule online.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#20 Post by Marshall Manning »

Doug Uno wrote: January 13th, 2021, 5:28 pm Sorry to hear that since I’ve purchased from them in the past. Does anybody know if they still ship to Oregon?
Just got a box today, so unless they've changed it this week the answer is "Yes!"
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#21 Post by Randy Meyer »

Really interesting. I a number of items purchased via auctions shipped to me in late December. While it shipped via a non UPS/FedX carrier it arrived very quickly nonetheless. This is a very recent change.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#22 Post by Scott G r u n e r »

Bummer. I think K&L may have been the first online wine store I bought from. I ordered some BDX 2000 futures from them. That was a long time ago.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#23 Post by Greg Gardner »

Yeah, they have a first rate customer service team and, to me, the gold standard for a website in terms of accurate, real time inventory. Nothing but good things to say about K&L, bummed to not be able to buy there anymore.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#24 Post by Pat Martin »

K&L is my favorite retailer, but they stopped shipping to Colorado a few years ago. My strong sense is this is all due to regulatory changes/stepped up enforcement and a very risk adverse approach by the business.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#25 Post by Scott Jameson »

Pat Martin wrote: January 13th, 2021, 10:29 pm My strong sense is this is all due to regulatory changes/stepped up enforcement and a very risk adverse approach by the business.
I don't know any details about Washington's shipping laws, but I agree this is likely the reason. IIRC, K&L was one of the early recipients of "cease and desist" notices starting around 15 years ago. I also recall they were party to litigation (maybe through SWRA ?) in some states. I'm guessing they don't want to be accused of breaking a law at the same time they are trying to change it.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#26 Post by dteng »

Perhaps shipping has also created a big headache.
Read the “UPS Has Gone Berserko” thread...can’t imagine having to deal with continued shipping issues as a retailer.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#27 Post by Brandon R »

I know this had been said thousands of times, but alcohol shipping laws are some of the most ridiculous regulations ever. So, so silly.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#28 Post by Al Osterheld »

I've been shopping at K&L since shortly after they opened in Redwood City long before the internet. Their business exploded when they invested in the online software and became more of a national retailer. They aren't going to willing get out of shipping wine by their own choice, it's one of the main pillars of their business model.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#29 Post by Jim Sawitzke »

One of my favorite retailers too. Just found out today they are no longer shipping to Arizona. [swearing.gif] [swearing.gif]

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#30 Post by Paul Marshall »

I liked them a lot as well. Any suggestions on other auction sites that have good inventory with lower buyer premiums?

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#31 Post by scott davis »

They also stopped shipping to Missouri a few years ago, which meant I had to drop out of their Champagne Club.

According to their web site, they now only ship to Alaska, California, District of Columbia, Florida, Idaho, North Dakota, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Nevada, Oregon, and Wyoming.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#32 Post by MattG »

States without sales tax? Oregon and NH, for sure
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#33 Post by Al Osterheld »

The states with no sales tax: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon. DC isn't a state, it does have a sales tax.

I'm sure it's about shipping laws for out of state retailers (as opposed to wineries since there was a Supreme Court case that addressed), and where the laws are enforced.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#34 Post by Scott G r u n e r »

Brandon R wrote: January 14th, 2021, 8:43 am I know this had been said thousands of times, but alcohol shipping laws are some of the most ridiculous regulations ever. So, so silly.
Yes, and this is part of the reason I try to avoid wine.com. They work to prop up the existing system as it benefits them via the investment they have made in distribution localization.

Buying into the system only supports the system.

The good news is that not buying at wine.com rarely means you pay more. :) (Though it may mean missing certain wines)
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#35 Post by Ron Slye »

I have never bought from wine.com. But curious how it perpetuates the restrictions on interstate alcohol commerce.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#36 Post by Hal Blumberg »

Is it possible to still buy from K&L and have a third party shipper send the wines to WA?

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#37 Post by jrozes »

Hal Blumberg wrote: January 16th, 2021, 10:04 am Is it possible to still buy from K&L and have a third party shipper send the wines to WA?
Per a thread on the cellartracker forums, they will no longer use third party shippers either.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#38 Post by Matt Mauldin »

Ron Slye wrote: January 16th, 2021, 9:32 am I have never bought from wine.com. But curious how it perpetuates the restrictions on interstate alcohol commerce.
As Scott mentioned above, they have operations regionally in the US and several different shipping points.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#39 Post by HoosJustinG »

jrozes wrote: January 16th, 2021, 10:08 am
Hal Blumberg wrote: January 16th, 2021, 10:04 am Is it possible to still buy from K&L and have a third party shipper send the wines to WA?
Per a thread on the cellartracker forums, they will no longer use third party shippers either.
Curious what this means for sales tax on purchases. It’s my understanding that in a scenario where I enlist a 3rd party to pickup the wine on my behalf and then forward to me, the transaction - from their end - wholly takes place in their state and they charge their state’s sales tax. In the event they directly ship the wine to me, the sales tax in my state governs.

Also really curious why a larger outfit like Domaine has not set up shop in Delaware as a receiving point. 0% sales tax would be a huge benefit to customers and close to 2 of their facilities already in NY/DC.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#40 Post by Hal Blumberg »

Hi-Time and Rare Wine Co also no longer ship to WA.

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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#41 Post by Pat Martin »

Just called K&L: Colorado is now a no fly zone also, even for 3rd party shippers.
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#42 Post by CraigT »

Jim Sawitzke wrote: January 14th, 2021, 12:42 pm One of my favorite retailers too. Just found out today they are no longer shipping to Arizona. [swearing.gif] [swearing.gif]
I just had 5 cases sent to Arizona vis GSL this week. I had no problems. Hum?
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#43 Post by CraigT »

Pat Martin wrote: January 16th, 2021, 2:49 pm Just called K&L: Colorado is now a no fly zone also, even for 3rd party shippers.
This is what I do for Colorado. I have them ship to fedex store right across the border in Wyoming. I drive about 1 hour and 20 minutes and pick it up. Been doing it for years. champagne.gif
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Re: K&L No Longer Shipping to Washington State

#44 Post by Jim Sawitzke »

CraigT wrote: January 16th, 2021, 6:18 pm
Jim Sawitzke wrote: January 14th, 2021, 12:42 pm One of my favorite retailers too. Just found out today they are no longer shipping to Arizona. [swearing.gif] [swearing.gif]
I just had 5 cases sent to Arizona vis GSL this week. I had no problems. Hum?
According to K&L they stopped shipping to AZ on January 11th. I’d guess you got in just under the wire!

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