TN: 2019 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Le Haut-Lieu (France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray)

[A. So]

2019 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Le Haut-Lieu - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (1/12/2021)
Fantastic young wine. The nose is aromatic and perfumed, evocative of a fruit salad dressed with honey and lime zest. The palate is racy and fresh, with plenty of concentration. The same sensation of honeyed lime on the palate too, with a big hit of minerality on the finish. Absolutely outstanding for the price. Why don't I buy this more often? (93 pts.)

[Pat Martin]

For me, Huet wines and especially the Sec are one of the few truly world class wines still available for less than a Grant ($50).

I grabbed 6 each of the three Sec in 2019. Winemaker’s final vintage and all.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

Broke my wine buying fast a few days ago with a case of this wine and a case of the demi-sec Le Mont.

[john stimson]

I think all three of the secs are stellar in 2019. For me, clos du Bourg was the standout (whereas I usually favor le Mont), but I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

[maureen nelson]

Broke my wine buying fast a few days ago with a case of this wine and a case of the demi-sec Le Mont.

Exact same 2019 huets I bought! Except i bought them last August and September and didn’t have to out myself on alan’s thread

[A. So]

For me, Huet wines and especially the Sec are one of the few truly world class wines still available for less than a Grant ($50).

I grabbed 6 each of the three Sec in 2019. Winemaker’s final vintage and all.

Is Berthomé leaving?

[JC J o u a s]

He retired.

[A. So]

Ah, didn't hear about that. Do you know who's taking over?

Edit: "Benjamin Joliveau, a Vouvray native who worked hand-in-hand with Jean-Bernard starting in 2009." https://www.polanerselections.com/producer/huet

[James Billy]

2019 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Le Haut-Lieu - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (1/12/2021)
Fantastic young wine. The nose is aromatic and perfumed, evocative of a fruit salad dressed with honey and lime zest. The palate is racy and fresh, with plenty of concentration. The same sensation of honeyed lime on the palate too, with a big hit of minerality on the finish. Absolutely outstanding for the price. Why don't I buy this more often? (93 pts.)

Sounds exactly what Vouvray Sec should be!

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

Broke my wine buying fast a few days ago with a case of this wine and a case of the demi-sec Le Mont.

Exact same 2019 huets I bought! Except i bought them last August and September and didn’t have to out myself on alan’s thread

We don't buy a lot of it or every vintage, but we just noticed recently that we're running low on chenin, especially dry and demi. There's a place where neither chardonnay nor Riesling is going to work, but chenin shines. Have to have the goods when those situations arise!

[Kevin Porter]

Damn you all! Fast broken

[Barry L i p t o n]

Interesting, on another thread, everyone was advising to load up on the Le Mont and Cote de Bourg instead of Le Haut Lieu (which I love, but not a lot of experience with the others).

I have two moratoriums now threatened - no drinking, no buying for now.

I feel like I need to taste one of the Haut Lieu's now to see if I should break my other moratorium.

[MaxSemler39]

Broke my wine buying fast a few days ago with a case of this wine and a case of the demi-sec Le Mont.

Exact same 2019 huets I bought! Except i bought them last August and September and didn’t have to out myself on alan’s thread

We don't buy a lot of it or every vintage, but we just noticed recently that we're running low on chenin, especially dry and demi. There's a place where neither chardonnay nor Riesling is going to work, but chenin shines. Have to have the goods when those situations arise!

I'm curious about those situations . Riesling was my first love, but quarantine has set me off on a big white burgundy kick. It feels like a lot of ground is covered by these two - especially considering all of the wonderful ways in which Riesling can shine. What do you consider chenin territory?

[Max S.]

Interesting, on another thread, everyone was advising to load up on the Le Mont and Cote de Bourg instead of Le Haut Lieu (which I love, but not a lot of experience with the others).

I have two moratoriums now threatened - no drinking, no buying for now.

I feel like I need to taste one of the Haut Lieu's now to see if I should break my other moratorium.

I tried both of the 2018 Haut Lieu and Le Mont and found the Haut Lieu to be "thinner" than the Le Mont, though that's not exactly the right word - I can't figure out how to describe it properly. It just didn't feel quite as incredible as the Le Mont did. If I gave the Le Mont an A, I would give the Haut Lieu an A-.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

Exact same 2019 huets I bought! Except i bought them last August and September and didn’t have to out myself on alan’s thread

We don't buy a lot of it or every vintage, but we just noticed recently that we're running low on chenin, especially dry and demi. There's a place where neither chardonnay nor Riesling is going to work, but chenin shines. Have to have the goods when those situations arise!

I'm curious about those situations . Riesling was my first love, but quarantine has set me off on a big white burgundy kick. It feels like a lot of ground is covered by these two - especially considering all of the wonderful ways in which Riesling can shine. What do you consider chenin territory?

I painted with broad strokes in my earlier comment, I admit. "Won't work" is not a good choice of words. "Won't quite do the job" or "won't do the job as well" would be a better ways of putting it. I think there are food pairings where, while chardonnay and Riesling (two versatile food pairing tools for sure) would be just fine and not in any way detract, they won't be able to do the full job that chenin could. The most obvious one to me is a cheese plate, particularly goat cheese heavy. Demi-sec chenin with a little age has gears that neither chardonnay nor Riesling, as versatile as they are, don't have. I feel the same way about many salmon preps, and some other richer fish. To me, it's like spreading cold butter on your bread versus softened - the cold butter will taste great, but it won't seep in and bind like the softened.

Don't get me wrong, I drink way more Riesling and white burg than I do chenin. Riesling in particular is my go to pairing for a great deal of what I eat. There are just those certain times when chenin does it better.

[MaxSemler39]

We don't buy a lot of it or every vintage, but we just noticed recently that we're running low on chenin, especially dry and demi. There's a place where neither chardonnay nor Riesling is going to work, but chenin shines. Have to have the goods when those situations arise!

I'm curious about those situations . Riesling was my first love, but quarantine has set me off on a big white burgundy kick. It feels like a lot of ground is covered by these two - especially considering all of the wonderful ways in which Riesling can shine. What do you consider chenin territory?

I painted with broad strokes in my earlier comment, I admit. "Won't work" is not a good choice of words. "Won't quite do the job" or "won't do the job as well" would be a better ways of putting it. I think there are food pairings where, while chardonnay and Riesling (two versatile food pairing tools for sure) would be just fine and not in any way detract, they won't be able to do the full job that chenin could. The most obvious one to me is a cheese plate, particularly goat cheese heavy. Demi-sec chenin with a little age has gears that neither chardonnay nor Riesling, as versatile as they are, don't have. I feel the same way about many salmon preps, and some other richer fish. To me, it's like spreading cold butter on your bread versus softened - the cold butter will taste great, but it won't seep in and bind like the softened.

Don't get me wrong, I drink way more Riesling and white burg than I do chenin. Riesling in particular is my go to pairing for a great deal of what I eat. There are just those certain times when chenin does it better.

Thanks, Sarah! I love the cold butter metaphor

[john stimson]

Interesting, on another thread, everyone was advising to load up on the Le Mont and Cote de Bourg instead of Le Haut Lieu (which I love, but not a lot of experience with the others).

I have two moratoriums now threatened - no drinking, no buying for now.

I feel like I need to taste one of the Haut Lieu's now to see if I should break my other moratorium.

I tried both of the 2018 Haut Lieu and Le Mont and found the Haut Lieu to be "thinner" than the Le Mont, though that's not exactly the right word - I can't figure out how to describe it properly. It just didn't feel quite as incredible as the Le Mont did. If I gave the Le Mont an A, I would give the Haut Lieu an A-.

Max--Huet Clos du bourg was the only sec they made in 2018. Were you talking about demi-sec? Otherwise, your description of the Haut-Lieu would fit for the sec--it's often a little leaner than certainly clos du bourg. In some vintages this is a plus, and in some, it puts it under the other two.

Personally, there is enough of a difference in style between the three secs that I enjoy having some of each, to mix and match depending upon the situation.

[Max S.]

Interesting, on another thread, everyone was advising to load up on the Le Mont and Cote de Bourg instead of Le Haut Lieu (which I love, but not a lot of experience with the others).

I have two moratoriums now threatened - no drinking, no buying for now.

I feel like I need to taste one of the Haut Lieu's now to see if I should break my other moratorium.

I tried both of the 2018 Haut Lieu and Le Mont and found the Haut Lieu to be "thinner" than the Le Mont, though that's not exactly the right word - I can't figure out how to describe it properly. It just didn't feel quite as incredible as the Le Mont did. If I gave the Le Mont an A, I would give the Haut Lieu an A-.

Max--Huet Clos du bourg was the only sec they made in 2018. Were you talking about demi-sec? Otherwise, your description of the Haut-Lieu would fit for the sec--it's often a little leaner than certainly clos du bourg. In some vintages this is a plus, and in some, it puts it under the other two.

Personally, there is enough of a difference in style between the three secs that I enjoy having some of each, to mix and match depending upon the situation.

Whoops, typo, 2017 is the vintage

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

Interesting to see the comments re: who bought how much of what from the Huet stable this year. For many years I did not buy Huet --- too many relative disappointments, but the TNs on the 2019 Huets were too tempting, so I jumped back on the bandwagon. I bought strictly off TNs, and went with 2 parts Le Haut Lieu to one part Clos du Bourg to zero parts Le Mont. Both sec..

[David_K]

It's always a challenge because they made several wines so I can't load up on everything every year. This year I bought some Le Mont Sec and Haut-Lieu sec. Now I'm wondering whether I need to go back to the well for Clos du Bourg sec. Decisions, decisions...

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

It's always a challenge because they made several wines so I can't load up on everything every year. This year I bought some Le Mont Sec and Haut-Lieu sec. Now I'm wondering whether I need to go back to the well for Clos du Bourg sec. Decisions, decisions...

Need? No.

Will you regret it if you do it? Also, No.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

Interesting to see the comments re: who bought how much of what from the Huet stable this year. For many years I did not buy Huet --- too many relative disappointments, but the TNs on the 2019 Huets were too tempting, so I jumped back on the bandwagon. I bought strictly off TNs, and went with 2 parts Le Haut Lieu to one part Clos du Bourg to zero parts Le Mont. Both sec..

I've enjoyed them all in the past, and don't drink them with enough regularity to have a clear picture emerge of which I like best, except on the rare occasions I've had them next to each other, and a few superlatives here and there. I think whichever I'm drinking at the moment is my favorite.

It's so easy to get caught up in the dithering and panicking about which vintage to buy, which bottling to buy, which is the "best." The fear of getting it "wrong." The FOMO. I get it, too, from time to time. With the 2019 Huets, I told my merchant (one of my best friends who knows my palate well) that I wanted a case of sec and case of demi and left it up to him to choose which. It was very relaxing, for once. I'm sure I'll love them, and it will likely never cross my mind for more than a fleeting instant whether I might have liked one of the other ones a little bit better.

[Marshall Manning]

It's so easy to get caught up in the dithering and panicking about which vintage to buy, which bottling to buy, which is the "best." The fear of getting it "wrong." The FOMO. I get it, too, from time to time. With the 2019 Huets, I told my merchant (one of my best friends who knows my palate well) that I wanted a case of sec and case of demi and left it up to him to choose which. It was very relaxing, for once. I'm sure I'll love them, and it will likely never cross my mind for more than a fleeting instant whether I might have liked one of the other ones a little bit better.

I totally agree, Sarah. I have a number of different Huets of different sweetness levels and vintages, and they are all delicious in their own way. One year I might like one bottling a little more than another, but they are all excellent wines in their own ways. Why fuss over one particular bottling when they are all going to be really good?

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

Interesting to see the comments re: who bought how much of what from the Huet stable this year. For many years I did not buy Huet --- too many relative disappointments, but the TNs on the 2019 Huets were too tempting, so I jumped back on the bandwagon. I bought strictly off TNs, and went with 2 parts Le Haut Lieu to one part Clos du Bourg to zero parts Le Mont. Both sec..

I've enjoyed them all in the past, and don't drink them with enough regularity to have a clear picture emerge of which I like best, except on the rare occasions I've had them next to each other, and a few superlatives here and there. I think whichever I'm drinking at the moment is my favorite.

It's so easy to get caught up in the dithering and panicking about which vintage to buy, which bottling to buy, which is the "best." The fear of getting it "wrong." The FOMO. I get it, too, from time to time. With the 2019 Huets, I told my merchant (one of my best friends who knows my palate well) that I wanted a case of sec and case of demi and left it up to him to choose which. It was very relaxing, for once. I'm sure I'll love them, and it will likely never cross my mind for more than a fleeting instant whether I might have liked one of the other ones a little bit better.

It is *so nice* to have a trusted retailer who knows your palate --- I feel like that isn't talked-about enough on here, with all (most) of us being geeks who almost always know more than the wine store staff. Historically, I've been introduced to many wines I've enjoyed greatly as a result of telling the trusted retailer, "I have $xx to spend, and I want # bottles. Ready, set, go!" Key in this being a successful endeavor is providing honest feedback.

And, a quick word on Chenin food pairings: I routinely sub-in Chenin for Chardonnay, and actually struggle to think of a situation where Chardonnay works but Chenin does not. I know this is so terribly specific it's almost ridiculous to mention, but the pairing is just so damn good ... butternut squash ravioli ---- sooooo good with Chenin!

[David_K]

It's so easy to get caught up in the dithering and panicking about which vintage to buy, which bottling to buy, which is the "best." The fear of getting it "wrong." The FOMO. I get it, too, from time to time. With the 2019 Huets, I told my merchant (one of my best friends who knows my palate well) that I wanted a case of sec and case of demi and left it up to him to choose which. It was very relaxing, for once. I'm sure I'll love them, and it will likely never cross my mind for more than a fleeting instant whether I might have liked one of the other ones a little bit better.

I agree, Sarah. While some years are better-suited to sec or demi-sec or the sweeter styles, we have the benefit of the fact that Huet basically selects for us and only makes the wines that the vintage allows them to make. As a result, there's basically nothing they release that is less than good.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

It is *so nice* to have a trusted retailer who knows your palate --- I feel like that isn't talked-about enough on here, with all (most) of us being geeks who almost always know more than the wine store staff. Historically, I've been introduced to many wines I've enjoyed greatly as a result of telling the trusted retailer, "I have $xx to spend, and I want # bottles. Ready, set, go!" Key in this being a successful endeavor is providing honest feedback.

And, a quick word on Chenin food pairings: I routinely sub-in Chenin for Chardonnay, and actually struggle to think of a situation where Chardonnay works but Chenin does not. I know this is so terribly specific it's almost ridiculous to mention, but the pairing is just so damn good ... butternut squash ravioli ---- sooooo good with Chenin!

I agree with you, Brian. That's the advice I give people just starting out in wine, provided they have access to a good shop. And when non-wine people ask me things like "I want to give a gift of wine around $XX," instead of suggesting specific wines they probably won't be able to find, I tell them where to go and even what staff member to ask. Or just to find the best store in the area if I don't know one specifically. And feedback is absolutely key if you want to get full benefit.

Something related that doesn't get mentioned much either is taking care of your side of the relationship as a consumer. Give your loyal business to stores you appreciate, don't give them a hard time, be patient. It's not a one way street. For example, with the shop I mentioned, if he offers a wine I want on a blast email, I buy it from him usually without even checking the price. I know from years of dealing with him that he's always competitive, though not always the best. I have no interest in beating him up on price for a few dollars savings, or making him take razor thin margins when I know he's got a family to feed. This approach with a few trusted and excellent retailers has paid huge dividends over the years - choice bottles set aside, first access, a gift here and there, insight into the market, not to mention valuable recommendations and advice, even at my experience level.

Of course I'm not talking about paying huge premiums or accepting crap service. Just giving a little to get a lot.

[john stimson]

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall tone here, but I do feel that it's a bit interesting that a group of people who might be obsessing about which d'angerville vineyard, or Dauvissat, or PYCM, or Champagne producer bottling to be buying, has a "whatever" attitude toward Huet bottlings.

[Jayson Cohen]

It's always a challenge because they made several wines so I can't load up on everything every year. This year I bought some Le Mont Sec and Haut-Lieu sec. Now I'm wondering whether I need to go back to the well for Clos du Bourg sec. Decisions, decisions...

Need? No.

Will you regret it if you do it? Also, No.

Or he might. It’s really good.

[Jayson Cohen]

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall tone here, but I do feel that it's a bit interesting that a group of people who might be obsessing about which d'angerville vineyard, or Dauvissat, or PYCM, or Champagne producer bottling to be buying, has a "whatever" attitude toward Huet bottlings.

Yeah. There’s nothing wrong with having general preferences for one or the other vineyard for Huet even if I do think that all the wines are usually good.

[Marshall Manning]

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall tone here, but I do feel that it's a bit interesting that a group of people who might be obsessing about which d'angerville vineyard, or Dauvissat, or PYCM, or Champagne producer bottling to be buying, has a "whatever" attitude toward Huet bottlings.

John, I'm not one of those people. While there are particular wines from these producers that might be considered better, I'm happy to have any of these wines in my cellar. I don't obsess about having a particular wine from anyone...I just try to stick with producers I really like and find wines I can afford, whether their "best" wine or not. It reminds me of when I was in the distribution business. Customers would clamor for Chevillon Les Saint Georges (which we might get 2 cases for the entire state) and then turn down Perrieres, Vaucrains, or Pruliers because it wasn't the "best". Me...I'm happy to have any Chevillon in the cellar. My policy when I was ITB was that I wouldn't take any wines that were allocated and would only take things for myself that our customers passed on. So, from those days I don't have any LSG, any Roulot PCs, any Allemand, etc. But I have a lot of things that people passed on and were good enough for me. But then I got to visit and taste in the cellars, and I got to see that the difference between a Chevillon LSG and Perrieres in certain vintages were negligible. And the Perrieres might be the more enjoyable wine for the first 15-20 years of its life. And I'm good with that.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall tone here, but I do feel that it's a bit interesting that a group of people who might be obsessing about which d'angerville vineyard, or Dauvissat, or PYCM, or Champagne producer bottling to be buying, has a "whatever" attitude toward Huet bottlings.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find an example of me obsessing on the board about which vintage or bottling to buy. Though I am more definite in my choices of wines I drink regularly, and therefore know better, I'm often the one saying that great producers make great wine, especially in great vintages. You'll almost certainly love what you buy. 2019 was a year that, from what I read, it would be hard to go wrong at Huet, so it was particularly easy to be easy going.

Thinking about it, I don't really think my attitude about the 2019 is out of character for me. Here are a few responses I've sent via PM to people who've written me for input when they were obsessing over which vintage or bottling to buy:

"I urge you to stop worrying so much about what to buy and when to open....As I mentioned before, there’s a tendency on the board to check every decision we make, and a lot of agonizing over getting the “right” wine, the “best” wine, the “better” vineyard or vintage. Instead of helping, I think a lot of that leads to indecision and stress. I see it in myself, even after all this time."

"You might consider choosing the 2011 Boca (instead of the Gattinara), as warm vintages tend to do well up north. Or you could put both names on a wall, throw a dart, and pick the one you hit. You can't lose either way."

"There’s no point in even asking the question of which is “better” at that level, as either one could outperform the other on the right day. And unless you have them next to each other, you'll never know if you might have liked the other better."

[A. So]

And especially in isolation, if you're not tasting side by side, will you notice a difference?

[john stimson]

And especially in isolation, if you're not tasting side by side, will you notice a difference?

Yes, you would notice a difference, even if not tasting side to side. Although they are all good, in their own ways.

Interesting responses. I guess I'm surprised, and I guess I'm somehow a little different from what you folks are describing. I very clearly prefer certain Chablis producers Chablis vineyards, and certain burgundy producers vineyards, and certain Barolo producers wines. I don't want someone else substituting another vineyard, I want that specific wine in that specific year. Would you want someone subbing a scotch amongst the line-up of Balvenie for the one you asked for? (I don't drink that line up, but just as an example)

[Jayson Cohen]

And especially in isolation, if you're not tasting side by side, will you notice a difference?

Yes, you would notice a difference, even if not tasting side to side. Although they are all good, in their own ways.

Interesting responses. I guess I'm surprised, and I guess I'm somehow a little different from what you folks are describing. I very clearly prefer certain Chablis producers Chablis vineyards, and certain burgundy producers vineyards, and certain Barolo producers wines. I don't want someone else substituting another vineyard, I want that specific wine in that specific year. Would you want someone subbing a scotch amongst the line-up of Balvenie for the one you asked for? (I don't drink that line up, but just as an example)

I lean this way too, John. I don’t see how I could otherwise allocate a finite budget. Which doesn’t mean I don’t try new wines or test my own preferences. For Huet, I now steer toward Le Mont while still buying Clos du Bourg and Le Haut Liu on occasion. These wines have a consistently unique profile even as the RS goes up. As another example, for Francois Cotat, I now steer toward Culs de Beaujeu and Mont Damnes over Grand Cote and also cooler vintages. Here, the wine profiles are consistent enough and consistently different, and my preference strong and clear enough, that I never buy Grand Cote anymore from either Cotat cousin. But these preferences did take many years to develop.

There are a lot of other examples from all over even if I still like to explore and keep an open mind.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

And especially in isolation, if you're not tasting side by side, will you notice a difference?

Yes, you would notice a difference, even if not tasting side to side. Although they are all good, in their own ways.

Interesting responses. I guess I'm surprised, and I guess I'm somehow a little different from what you folks are describing. I very clearly prefer certain Chablis producers Chablis vineyards, and certain burgundy producers vineyards, and certain Barolo producers wines. I don't want someone else substituting another vineyard, I want that specific wine in that specific year. Would you want someone subbing a scotch amongst the line-up of Balvenie for the one you asked for? (I don't drink that line up, but just as an example)

I think you're taking what we're saying, or at least what I am saying, to a much broader generalization than we mean it and in the process ignoring the details. I don't think any of us are saying we would take any Chablis over any other, or that we don't have producer preferences, or that we'd let someone substitute without discussion. And we're not talking about situations where we already know the exact wine we want based on experience - the dithering and obsessing doesn't happen then. We're talking about situations where people are trying to choose among several great options, all of which they like, or are pretty sure they will like. Or, a little different in Marshall's example, people who get attached to the idea that XX bottling is "the best," and so only want that, likely without even tasting.

I didn't say to my merchant "give me any old Vouvray, any producer or vintage or vineyard." I gave him discretion within a very limited category, where I was confident all the options were good. I know and like all the Huet wines, saw they were all strong in 2019, and, not having a decided consistent preference myself, let my merchant choose the vineyards, feeling confident I couldn't go wrong. I said all that in my OP.

Of course I prefer certain producers - I am pretty darn certain Adrian and Marshall do, too. I am also on record many times on this board saying my tastes are quite established, and that I rarely experiment, that I know what I like. I already said above that I'm more definite about producers I drink more often, and know well. If there's a wine from a producer's lineup that I prefer strongly, then I probably buy more of it, and if there's one I don't like, even from a beloved producer, of course I don't buy it. But I do often feel a lot of flexibility within the lineup of a producer I love, and, to some extent, from vintage to vintage of that producer.

When the 2019 Rieslings came out, there was tons of hype, and there a ton of this obsessing I'm talking about. There were dozens if not hundreds of comments and questions from people clearly getting really worked up about whether they should buy heavily, or backfill. Is this vintage like 2015? Or is it more like 2012? I got half a dozen PMs from folks really worried about whether they should pay up for a 2019, or backfill another 2017 for less. Or saying "I've heard this is a Fruhlingsplatchen vintage, but I've only been offered the Halenberg!" Or "there are so many Falkenstein bottlings, what should I do?" While I understand where they are coming from, and I feel it too sometimes, in almost every case they were talking about a top tier producer's top wines in a top vintage. If you don't already have a clear preference, why worry about it? You'll almost certainly love them both, and you will never know anyway.

Another example - I get a lot of questions via PM about Vallana, since I routinely praise their wines as some of the greatest red QPRs out there. People come to me trying to decide among 3 different vintages of the Gattinara, or should they buy a lesser vintage of the Boca versus a better vintage of the Spanna. Putting aside the fact that my preferences aren't necessarily going to translate to their preferences, I honestly think it doesn't matter. They are all great wines in good to excellent vintages. If the person already knows they prefer the Boca, then great - buy the Boca. If you don't have a preference already, then either buy them both and compare to learn for yourself, or just choose one fairly randomly. Don't obsess over whether you might theoretically like the other one better.

To sum up, when I know the wine I want, I buy that. When I am trying to choose among a few wines, all of which I am confident I will like, I don't need to read a thousand notes to try and dwell for hours on if I might like this one a teeny bit more than that one.

[crickey]

When I am trying to choose among a few wines, all of which I am confident I will like, I don't need to read a thousand notes to try and dwell for hours on if I might like this one a teeny bit more than that one.

Wait, we don't need to agonize over teeny, tiny differences? Would this board even exist otherwise?

[Doug Schulman]

I find it interesting that Le Haut Lieu seems to get the least love and Le Mont the most. When I've had 2-3 vineyard sites side by side, from the same vintage and sweetness level, I have always either liked Le Haut Lieu the best or had no preference. I have done comparisons with young wines and around 15 years from vintage (give or take a few years). My takeaway is always that I'd be happy to have any of them. I buy what I can get conveniently, don't worry about missing out on Clos du Bourg if I do, and get a variety whenever possible. These are not annual purchases for me, but I do love the wines.

The differences in quality and my preference between different vineyard sites are almost always much more pronounced for me when I compare Burgundies or Barolos from the same producer (with probably a couple of exceptions).

[Jay Miller]

And, a quick word on Chenin food pairings: I routinely sub-in Chenin for Chardonnay, and actually struggle to think of a situation where Chardonnay works but Chenin does not. I know this is so terribly specific it's almost ridiculous to mention, but the pairing is just so damn good ... butternut squash ravioli ---- sooooo good with Chenin!

While I love chenin and will usually reach for it over chardonnay there are definitely foods where I prefer the latter. Mushrooms come to mind, also gougeres. Probably a few others if I spent time thinking about it.

And I'd certainly reach for riesling over chenin for pork.

When I am trying to choose among a few wines, all of which I am confident I will like, I don't need to read a thousand notes to try and dwell for hours on if I might like this one a teeny bit more than that one.

Wait, we don't need to agonize over teeny, tiny differences? ...

Don't listen to any seditious nonsense, of course we do!



Anyway, I'm not buying much if any new release wine for cellaring so I don't have any 2019 Huets. When I backfill I have a definite preference for Le Mont because in general I like what they do with age the best. But I would never turn down a CdB or LHL.

[Marshall Manning]

I think you're taking what we're saying, or at least what I am saying, to a much broader generalization than we mean it and in the process ignoring the details. I don't think any of us are saying we would take any Chablis over any other, or that we don't have producer preferences, or that we'd let someone substitute without discussion. And we're not talking about situations where we already know the exact wine we want based on experience - the dithering and obsessing doesn't happen then. We're talking about situations where people are trying to choose among several great options, all of which they like, or are pretty sure they will like. Or, a little different in Marshall's example, people who get attached to the idea that XX bottling is "the best," and so only want that, likely without even tasting.

Exactly. I'm not suggesting that a large negociant NSG is a substitute, or comparable, to a Chevillon Premier Cru. But within Chevillon's lineup, I'd be happy owning Perrieres, Chaignots, Pruliers, and Roncieres (which I do) instead of obsessing about LSG. I think too many people focus on what is supposedly the best, on scores, and on scarcity. I truly don't care about any of that. I just care about having a variety of really nice wines that I enjoy. It's the same with Huet. I enjoy all of the sec and demi-sec bottlings, and so don't obsess about a particular one in a particular vintage. Yes, I may prefer one slightly more than another, but to me it's not worth the time scouring the internet to get one particular bottling when I can get 2-3 others from a local shop that I will like almost as much.

Of course I prefer certain producers - I am pretty darn certain Adrian and Marshall do, too. I am also on record many times on this board saying my tastes are quite established, and that I rarely experiment, that I know what I like. I already said above that I'm more definite about producers I drink more often, and know well. If there's a wine from a producer's lineup that I prefer strongly, then I probably buy more of it, and if there's one I don't like, even from a beloved producer, of course I don't buy it. But I do often feel a lot of flexibility within the lineup of a producer I love, and, to some extent, from vintage to vintage of that producer.

Yes, for sure. There are many producers I know that I love, and I buy a wide cross section of wines from them. Using Chevillon again, I have bottles from 6 different premier crus, the VV bottling, as well as Bourgogne Blanc and Rouge, spread over 8 different vintages. And with Huet I have 7 different bottlings spread over 7 vintages. So if I don't get one particular bottling in one vintage, I don't really care...I know I will like the ones I do find.

But I also am a big fan of experimentation and trying new things, and actively seek out regions, producers, and wines that are new to me. That's the only way, especially in Covid times, to find new favorites and alternatives to wines (like Chevillon) that I've been priced out of. Yeah, I wish I could still get 1er Chevillon for $60 wholesale. But I can't...so I move on and look for other things I enjoy.

[Jayson Cohen]

To sum up, when I know the wine I want, I buy that. When I am trying to choose among a few wines, all of which I am confident I will like, I don't need to read a thousand notes to try and dwell for hours on if I might like this one a teeny bit more than that one.

I agree with this. The latter can also be an earlier stage en route to the former. When I first taste a producer and like what I taste, but am not sure which wine(s) I prefer, I will buy what I can and/or buy a number based on retailer recommendation to start to figure out if I have preferences. I usually do even where in a broader sense I like all the wines.

[Jayson Cohen]

I think too many people focus on what is supposedly the best, on scores, and on scarcity. I truly don't care about any of that.

This is true. But I thought we are focused on true taste preferences regardless of these factors. I don’t care about any of these things.

I just care about having a variety of really nice wines that I enjoy. It's the same with Huet. I enjoy all of the sec and demi-sec bottlings, and so don't obsess about a particular one in a particular vintage. Yes, I may prefer one slightly more than another, but to me it's not worth the time scouring the internet to get one particular bottling when I can get 2-3 others from a local shop that I will like almost as much.

In the service of taste preferences, I’m a professional internet scourer and vintage obsessor (based on taste preference, not hype). Or maybe just a lot fussier than you. I blame my parents.

[john stimson]

Interesting responses. Sometimes I guess I assume that we all have the same odd affliction to the same degree, manifesting in the same way, but that's clearly not really the case. (Just to be clear, I don't scour the internet reading note after note, trying to pick the top pointer. I have a fair amount of Chevillon, but it's mostly Cailles and Vaucrains, both of which I may actually prefer over LSG. I don't so much chase clos des Ducs anymore, and when I was buying burgundy, would select amongst the other d'Angevilles. (I would be a happy man if I could reliably and regularly source Taiilepieds).).

I would much prefer to taste, then select--of course not so often possible--rather than read tasting notes. That's what I did with the Huet secs. I had heard that 2019 would be a great sec year, so I tried a bottle of each, and chose the ones I preferred. To me they are each quite distinct, although all winners.

I do think that some of this, as Sarah points out, just reflects regions that we are not as invested in as others. I have to admit that I might just defer to my wine merchant if I needed a case of a good Chianti Classico, although I would generally try a bottle first.

[Barry L i p t o n]

I was also going to comment on Chevillon. I'm a long time fan but discerned that my favorite was clearly Les Cailles. First I bought most of the range (all but Bourgogne), then limited it to Pruliers, LSG, Cailles and Vaucrain, and shortly after, just Cailles (still have the others in my cellar, but almost always reach for the Les Cailles).

So now I have a completely full cellar and have pretty much stopped buying (other than German GGs, which I didn't have any at the start of the year), but given the price point and my fondness for Huet Le Haut Lieu Sec (most of the Huet I've had ), I became interested without any need for more wine. For me, it's not about buying a case of Huet, it's about buying a few bottles. And who is scouring the internet, I am just reading the Huet threads here that I would have anyway. Given there are folks whose tastes I align with here, why would I not be interested in their thoughts?

The old days you could buy and taste and it would still be there. I consume my wine much more slowly these days, and more often than not, by the time I would go through a producers lineup, or even a couple of bottlings, the opportunity would be gone.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Pat Martin]

I would much prefer to taste, then select--of course not so often possible--rather than read tasting notes. That's what I did with the Huet secs. I had heard that 2019 would be a great sec year, so I tried a bottle of each, and chose the ones I preferred.

And???? Which was your favorite?! Us obsessives need to know!

[john stimson]

Oh--sorry. I've blabbered about this elsewhere so didn't include it. I think in 2019 Clos du Bourg sec is the winner. The 19's are more chiseled and laser-like, and the extra richness that Clos du Bourg often has provides a little balancing weight that works really well in 2019. the le Mont seems lighter than usual, but has a real laser beam of fruit/acid, and I think will fill out and age very nicely. The Haut-lieu provides a little more fruit--green apple/lime--but still has a nice edgy feel. Seems like it might be "ready" a little sooner than the others. I bought the Clos du Bourg and the le Mont, but will likely backfill some Haut-lieu.

[Brian Tuite]

Opened a ‘13 last week that was really starting to hit its stride. Thanks for the look at the ‘19, I’ll search it out

[James Billy]

Sometimes it sees Vouvray=Huet on here. What other Loire chenin producers do you guys drink?

[Brad Kane]

Sometimes it sees Vouvray=Huet on here. What other Loire chenin producers do you guys drink?

My other favorite Vouvray producers are Foreau, Francois Pinon, Francois Chidaine, Vincent Careme, Champalou and Clos de la Meslerie.

[James Billy]

Thanks.

[Barry L i p t o n]

Broke my dry 2021 for a half bottle of Haut Lieu sec 2019 in 375. Loved the lime notes and minerality but was expecting more acid. Haven’t been drinking them in a while, maybe I drink to much Chablis.