Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

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adam caldwell
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#51 Post by adam caldwell »

Interesting thread. Anyone have additional thoughts on a couple other favorite producers in the region that are on the upswing but not priced at such a high level (under $150 perhaps) ? thx.

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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#52 Post by Greg K »

It's not Allemand (nothing is, really), but in Cornas, probably Balthazar's Chaillot. Though that's seen a fairly precipitous price increase recently as well. Everyone's been looking for the next Allemand recently though.
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#53 Post by Mark Y »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 13th, 2021, 8:11 am
Jeff Rosenberg wrote: December 31st, 2020, 6:56 am Now I want to see for myself. It would be interesting to include it in a blind Northern Rhône styled Syrah tasting.
Sometime’s it’s interesting to compare styles and value with blind tastings, but I think you would be leaving experience on the table using Allemand in a blind tasting. Whether it’s worth it compared to other Syrahs is just a subjective experience(YMMV). But every person who posted in this thread about how special Allemand wines are probably came to that conclusion just by drinking a great wine.

The Allemand wines are more ethereal and nuanced than a lot of modern Syrah. And in a line up with higher alcohol wines, I would wonder what was being lost.

Drinking a bottle of Reynard by itself with time for appreciation and thought seems like a much better way to give the wine and yourself the best opportunity to understand and validate the experience. Especially at $375/bottle.

Blind tastings are a little bit like a dunk contest. While truly great players can usually dunk, it’s not what makes them champions.
Totally agree. And loved the dunking analogy.

For me blind tasting is really educational. But if we are drinking iconic / top tier wines, I rather just relax with it over a longish period of time and enjoy the experience.
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#54 Post by J.Vizuete »

Mark Y wrote: January 13th, 2021, 8:46 pm Totally agree. And loved the dunking analogy.

For me blind tasting is really educational. But if we are drinking iconic / top tier wines, I rather just relax with it over a longish period of time and enjoy the experience.
+1

Thread drift, I think what some mean by blind tasting is a more formal setting or competition where there are winners and losers among many wines. I love tasting blind, but to me that just means not knowing what’s in the glass for a moment while I get to ponder it. When I taste with friends, we like to discuss them before a reveal. It is consistent humbling and educational.

But if I’m tasting a classic wine, usually there is some build up and excitement around the label. We had a 2012 Allemand Reynard open a while ago at a restaurant event and the Somm who had generously opened it took a few of his top servers aside, told them about the wine and why it was special/important to remember and poured them each a glass. That would have been lost in a blind setting I suspect.

Alternatively, if the OP blinds a bunch of syrah and doesn't prefer the Allemand, that too is an education in frugality;)
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#55 Post by Greg K »

I guess I'll somewhat disagree on blinds. I think it depends on how you do it and what the goal is. We open a fair amount of wines blind, and some have been Allemand (and other reasonably nice wines), and the goal is generally to see if you can "get" the wine rather than to rank it or to win dinner. Then the wine stays on the table and people revisit it over the course of the dinner. If we're being more rigorous, we'll wait for all the wines to be poured for the reveal; if less, right after the bottle is poured. It's fun; sometimes you nail a wine, other times you end up hilariously wrong. I don't think it takes away from the experience, either. A few months before the pandemic a number of us (many posters on this board) did a 2004 northern Rhone retrospective that was done single blind, including both Allemands. They were, unsurprisingly, pretty great.
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#56 Post by Jason L. »

adam caldwell wrote: January 13th, 2021, 3:17 pm Interesting thread. Anyone have additional thoughts on a couple other favorite producers in the region that are on the upswing but not priced at such a high level (under $150 perhaps) ? thx.
It's a little tricky, because the region has so many fantastic wines but few resemble Allemand. A's style is sort of uncommon for the Northern Rhone in general as it's about finesse and tannic structure is not central to it. Calling it Burgundian would be maybe cliche but that might give you an idea. To be honest, I find that style of winemaking to be more common in California (particularly at producers who also make Pinot) than in France. I'm not super versed in South African Syrahs, but I'd think there would be some examples there as well.

For great producers in the region that are relative values, I'd say you may want to experiment a bit.

For great introductory wines, I'd recommend the Syrah from Domaine Faury as well as L'Appel des Serines from Francois Villard. These are $20-$30 wines and they are unmistakably Northern Rhone.

Once you start to spend more than that, you encounter wines that need more time to show their brilliance, so be prepared to evaluate them with that in mind. Take a look at this brief primer from Jancis for a list of good names to shop for. It doesn't include all the must-try wines but is a good start: https://www.jancisrobinson.com/learn/wi ... hern-rhone
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#57 Post by Kelly Walker »

Tardieu-Laurent makes a Cornas VV that may be a worthy alternative to Allemand. A bit more rustic but much easier on the wallet.
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#58 Post by Greg K »

Jason L. wrote: January 14th, 2021, 9:53 am
adam caldwell wrote: January 13th, 2021, 3:17 pm Interesting thread. Anyone have additional thoughts on a couple other favorite producers in the region that are on the upswing but not priced at such a high level (under $150 perhaps) ? thx.
It's a little tricky, because the region has so many fantastic wines but few resemble Allemand. A's style is sort of uncommon for the Northern Rhone in general as it's about finesse and tannic structure is not central to it. Calling it Burgundian would be maybe cliche but that might give you an idea. To be honest, I find that style of winemaking to be more common in California (particularly at producers who also make Pinot) than in France. I'm not super versed in South African Syrahs, but I'd think there would be some examples there as well.

For great producers in the region that are relative values, I'd say you may want to experiment a bit.

For great introductory wines, I'd recommend the Syrah from Domaine Faury as well as L'Appel des Serines from Francois Villard. These are $20-$30 wines and they are unmistakably Northern Rhone.

Once you start to spend more than that, you encounter wines that need more time to show their brilliance, so be prepared to evaluate them with that in mind. Take a look at this brief primer from Jancis for a list of good names to shop for. It doesn't include all the must-try wines but is a good start: https://www.jancisrobinson.com/learn/wi ... hern-rhone
I wouldn't for a second pretend to know more about wine than Jancis, but I'd say that summary is considerably out of date; there are a few threads on WB that have a lot of good info (look for ones where Alfert posts :)). It's a very old school list that spends most of its time talking about Guigal, which......if that's your thing, I guess, but I expect that's not quite what the OP was looking for. It also generally lumps in a lot of producers together which often make extremely different wine.
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#59 Post by Jason L. »

Greg K wrote: January 14th, 2021, 10:35 am I wouldn't for a second pretend to know more about wine than Jancis, but I'd say that summary is considerably out of date; there are a few threads on WB that have a lot of good info (look for ones where Alfert posts :)). It's a very old school list that spends most of its time talking about Guigal, which......if that's your thing, I guess, but I expect that's not quite what the OP was looking for. It also generally lumps in a lot of producers together which often make extremely different wine.
Oh, well I suppose one could take it that way! I just briefly scanned the article and found a large list of producers that I'd recommend:
Gilles Barge, Bernard Burgaud, Clusel-Roch, Levet, Jamet, Ogier, Rostaing, Jean-Michel Stéphan and Vidal-Fleury
Yves Cuilleron, Pierre Gaillard, Georges Vernay and François Villard
Belle, Domaine du Colombier, Graillot, Pochon or Domaine Marc Sorrel
Jean Marsanne and André Perret.
Auguste Clape,Jean-Luc Colombo, Durand, Robert Michel, Domaine du Tunnel's Stéphane Michel and Vincent Paris
So I thought it would be helpful for a shopping list. Of course, if there's on-board resources, he should check those too. I haven't seen them yet as I'm new, too.

Cheers,
Jason
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#60 Post by Greg K »

Jason L. wrote: January 14th, 2021, 11:02 am
Greg K wrote: January 14th, 2021, 10:35 am I wouldn't for a second pretend to know more about wine than Jancis, but I'd say that summary is considerably out of date; there are a few threads on WB that have a lot of good info (look for ones where Alfert posts :)). It's a very old school list that spends most of its time talking about Guigal, which......if that's your thing, I guess, but I expect that's not quite what the OP was looking for. It also generally lumps in a lot of producers together which often make extremely different wine.
Oh, well I suppose one could take it that way! I just briefly scanned the article and found a large list of producers that I'd recommend:
Gilles Barge, Bernard Burgaud, Clusel-Roch, Levet, Jamet, Ogier, Rostaing, Jean-Michel Stéphan and Vidal-Fleury
Yves Cuilleron, Pierre Gaillard, Georges Vernay and François Villard
Belle, Domaine du Colombier, Graillot, Pochon or Domaine Marc Sorrel
Jean Marsanne and André Perret.
Auguste Clape,Jean-Luc Colombo, Durand, Robert Michel, Domaine du Tunnel's Stéphane Michel and Vincent Paris
So I thought it would be helpful for a shopping list. Of course, if there's on-board resources, he should check those too. I haven't seen them yet as I'm new, too.

Cheers,
Jason
Sorry if you took that as in any way a slight - wasn't meant that way! But to me, this reads a bit like a list that might have been published 10 or 12 years ago when Cornas was a relative backwater among fine wine journalists. It doesn't mention any of Allemand, Verset, Juge (both now retired, but Robert Michel is too!), Balthazar, Gilles, Voge, Lionnet, etc.
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Re: Help me understand Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard

#61 Post by Jason L. »

No offense taken. Those are all quality additions to the list and hopefully helpful in aggregate to Syrah seekers out there. :)
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