TN: 2019 Hofgut Falkenstein Krettnacher Euchariusberg Riesling Kabinett "Kugel Peter" #12

[Brian S t o t t e r]

• 2019 Hofgut Falkenstein Krettnacher Euchariusberg Riesling Kabinett "Kugel Peter" #12 - Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer (12/26/2020)
  Aromas of Bartlett pear, tangerine peel, cassis, thyme, and chalky minerals are coaxed from the glass with some aeration. The palate is concentrated but still feels lightweight, with prominent fruit flavors of tart green apple, quince, and underripe yellow peach, with hints of whipped cream and baking spice. The fresh acidity and minerality already feel well integrated. The finish is long, primarily driven by the fruit with some intermingling herbal tones.
  
  Like Gisela, this wine has great harmony in its core elements, with a long life ahead of it. But while Gisela is more lithe and expressive at this time, performing as a prima ballerina, the Kugel Peter is more serious and deep. (94 pts.)
  

Posted from CellarTracker

[D@vid Bu3ker]

Only got a single bottle of this one...dance now or dance later?

[Brian S t o t t e r]

Only got a single bottle of this one...dance now or dance later?

I only bought 6 bottles of this and may go back for a full case worth.

[Howard Cooper]

I really feel bad for you Brian. You are doing such a good job with German wines that there has to be more Burgundy in your future.

[Brian S t o t t e r]

I really feel bad for you Brian. You are doing such a good job with German wines that there has to be more Burgundy in your future.

Not sure if you saw my post on the cellar diversity thread, but I’m buying enough German wine to make Robert .

[Jayson Cohen]

Opened a bottle.

My first Falkenstein of the year! I blinked, and 2/3 of the bottle was gone. Surprisingly open. After 5 minutes I was already getting a delicious onslaught of flower blossoms, unripe orangey citrus, petrichor, and caraway/licorice minerals. Very piquant and airy but deep and palate staining at the sane time. I’m loving this. But I’m going to be disciplined and let the rest of the bottle open further overnight.

[Tom G l a s g o w]

Only got a single bottle of this one...dance now or dance later?

I only bought 6 bottles of this and may go back for a full case worth.

I don’t see any in WS.

[Brian Pinci]

I only got a single of this too as well as the Gisela which I already opened. First thought was, damn, why didn’t I buy more. And now I can’t find them anywhere

[Brian S t o t t e r]

Yeah, I couldn't reload. I think the 2019s have come and gone sadly...

[AAgrawal]

I never found the Gisela. The Kugel Peter is excellent though. Wish I had discovered this producer earlier.

[G. Curd]

Yeah, I couldn't reload. I think the 2019s have come and gone sadly...

Yeah I missed out on these too. Too much wine to buy . I explained to my wife that I wasn't buying wine I was "investing" in a good that has growth in value. However, she countered with a pretty strong argument that when I drink them they typically lose a lot of value. We will just have to agree to disagree

[Brian S t o t t e r]

Yeah, I couldn't reload. I think the 2019s have come and gone sadly...

Yeah I missed out on these too. Too much wine to buy . I explained to my wife that I wasn't buying wine I was "investing" in a good that has growth in value. However, she countered with a pretty strong argument that when I drink them they typically lose a lot of value. We will just have to agree to disagree

[Claus Jeppesen]

I only got a single of this too as well as the Gisela which I already opened. First thought was, damn, why didn’t I buy more. And now I can’t find them anywhere

Mee too
Although I bought 66 bottles of 2019

[Brian S t o t t e r]

I only got a single of this too as well as the Gisela which I already opened. First thought was, damn, why didn’t I buy more. And now I can’t find them anywhere

Mee too
Although I bought 66 bottles of 2019

That's double me lol

[DanielP]

Union Square wines has #14 and #6 in stock at pretty good pricing for NY (MA was much cheaper)

[A.Gillette]

I only got a single of this too as well as the Gisela which I already opened. First thought was, damn, why didn’t I buy more. And now I can’t find them anywhere

Mee too
Although I bought 66 bottles of 2019

That's double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

[Tom G l a s g o w]

Mee too
Although I bought 66 bottles of 2019

That's double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

I sent you a pm. Hopefully, Lars checks in here.

[Lars Carlberg]

Mee too
Although I bought 66 bottles of 2019

That's double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

[A.Gillette]

That's double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars. I had read that it was only first press juice in 2019 as well but sounds like that was incorrect.
A

[Claus Jeppesen]

I hear from several knowledgeable enthusiastic winelovers that it is prudent to WAIT with enjoying the Falkenstein wines
The problem is that they taste so damn fantastic when young
Thats why I have stocked up.

[Claus Jeppesen]

I only got a single of this too as well as the Gisela which I already opened. First thought was, damn, why didn’t I buy more. And now I can’t find them anywhere

Mee too
Although I bought 66 bottles of 2019

That's double me lol

I have around 120 bottles
Sames as a good Danish friend near by
We look forward to drink them at age 20

[Claus Jeppesen]

That's double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars.
I am 100% confident that these wines (Trocken, Feonherb, etc) will be so delicious in 20 years

[Lars Carlberg]

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars. I had read that it was only first press juice in 2019 as well but sounds like that was incorrect.
A

You're welcome, Alex. That's correct, but I don't want to reveal too much. So much depends on the quality of the grapes. This starts with pruning the vines. The Webers gently press the grapes whole, but so do Raveneau and Vincent Dauvissat and most Champagne producers. I will say that some big-name producers do fractioning while pressing and no one questions the lifespan of their wines. Even before the 2018 vintage, certain people were questioning the quality and longevity of the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein. It's okay. The wines are delicious early on, and it makes people wonder if they age.

[Lars Carlberg]

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars.
I am 100% confident that these wines (Trocken, Feonherb, etc) will be so delicious in 20 years

Thanks, Claus.

[Robert Dentice]

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars. I had read that it was only first press juice in 2019 as well but sounds like that was incorrect.
A

You're welcome, Alex. That's correct, but I don't want to reveal too much. So much depends on the quality of the grapes. This starts with pruning the vines. The Webers gently press the grapes whole, but so do Raveneau and Vincent Dauvissat and most Champagne producers. I will say that some big-name producers do fractioning while pressing and no one questions the lifespan of their wines. Even before the 2018 vintage, certain people were questioning the quality and longevity of the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein. It's okay. The wines are delicious early on, and it makes people wonder if they age.

I for one seriously question the longevity of the wines. Every time I open a bottle it never lasts long.

[Jayson Cohen]

Thanks Lars. I had read that it was only first press juice in 2019 as well but sounds like that was incorrect.
A

You're welcome, Alex. That's correct, but I don't want to reveal too much. So much depends on the quality of the grapes. This starts with pruning the vines. The Webers gently press the grapes whole, but so do Raveneau and Vincent Dauvissat and most Champagne producers. I will say that some big-name producers do fractioning while pressing and no one questions the lifespan of their wines. Even before the 2018 vintage, certain people were questioning the quality and longevity of the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein. It's okay. The wines are delicious early on, and it makes people wonder if they age.

I for one seriously question the longevity of the wines. Every time I open a bottle it never lasts long.

#singleserving750

[D@ve D y r 0 f f]

I'm no winemaker, but I have been a serious wine drinker for almost 30 years, so hopefully I have some credibility. And, while this is purely anecdotal rather than based on controlled double-blind scientific research, over those 30 years I have found that one key to a bottle's longevity is its owner's ability to resist opening it.

[Robert Dentice]

Mee too
Although I bought 66 bottles of 2019

That's double me lol

I have around 120 bottles
Sames as a good Danish friend near by
We look forward to drink them at age 20

I am well over 500 not counting mags as double so I hope so too...

[Claus Jeppesen]

That's double me lol

I have around 120 bottles
Sames as a good Danish friend near by
We look forward to drink them at age 20

I am well over 500 not counting mags as double so I hope so too...

Great Robert
Let's talk in 2041

[Howard Cooper]

That's double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven't the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn't it be known by now whether the wines age or they don't age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

[Lars Carlberg]

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven't the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn't it be known by now whether the wines age or they don't age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

[Claus Jeppesen]

That's double me lol

I have around 120 bottles
Sames as a good Danish friend near by
We look forward to drink them at age 20

I am well over 500 not counting mags as double so I hope so too...

[MaxSemler39]

Thanks for the TN!

Any experience with the 2019 Krettnacher Euchariusberg Spatlese #14?

[Jayson Cohen]

Thanks for the TN!

Any experience with the 2019 Krettnacher Euchariusberg Spatlese #14?

It’s phenomenal. If you search, there are a number of reports on WB over the last few months. I cellared 3 initially. Opened a fourth. Then bought 5 more.

[MaxSemler39]

Thanks for the TN!

Any experience with the 2019 Krettnacher Euchariusberg Spatlese #14?

It’s phenomenal. If you search, there are a number of reports on WB over the last few months. I cellared 3 initially. Opened a fourth. Then bought 5 more.

Thanks, Jayson!

[Andrew K.]

Only got one of each also. Hard to find here unfortunately

[Howard Cooper]

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don't age has been said before. It's unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven't the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn't it be known by now whether the wines age or they don't age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

[A.Gillette]

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven't the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn't it be known by now whether the wines age or they don't age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

Here is the issue. In 2018, Hofgut (and it sounds like other producers) used only the first run juice to make their wines. That might make for a racy set of wines and helps deal with hot vintage, where acidity drops pretty significantly as you press, but it seems like it leaves a question about longevity. Here is Lars’ response when I asked about it earlier (note that the thread is titled for the 2017, but Lars is responding to my post about the ‘18):

viewtopic.php?p=2958385#p2958385

I had read that the 2019 was similarly lightly pressed and that only the first run juice was used, and therefore had what was basically the same question that I had about the 18s. So this isn’t really about whether Saar wines can age. I don’t think anyone debates that. I’ve had tons of beautiful Egon Muller wines from the 70s that, while undrinkable because they are completely infected with TCA, have otherwise aged beautifully. And that is just one example. My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

A

[Howard Cooper]

My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

Are they the first Saar winery to have ever done this? Again, shouldn't there be a history about what has happened using first run juice only on Saar wines? My question is not whether you were right or wrong raising this but why there isn't an easy answer based on history to your question.

[A.Gillette]

My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

Are they the first Saar winery to have ever done this? Again, shouldn't there be a history about what has happened using first run juice only on Saar wines? My question is not whether you were right or wrong raising this but why there isn't an easy answer based on history to your question.

Well, that was sort of my question as well, both in April and in this thread. I don’t have a perfect answer yet, although it sounds like Lars knows of others who have done so. As to the history, winemaking techniques are adapting for climate change so I’m not sure it is true that there is an easy answer based on the past. 2018 just sort of feels like a breaking point and a watershed moment in a lot of ways. And using only the first press is an expensive proposition. One would have to be willing to make a real financial sacrifice for the sake of producing wines in the preferred style.
A

[D@vid Bu3ker]

When tasting the wines I find nothing that would indicate a potential lack of longevity. Of course the “doesn’t age” meme has come up before, and been dead wrong before. I am certain it will be wrong here.

[Lars Carlberg]

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven't the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn't it be known by now whether the wines age or they don't age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

The aging potential is no different from any other top producer on the Saar and Mosel. I've tasted wines from the late eighties and early nineties that showed very well. Unlike certain estates that have a Schatzkammer, the Webers don't have a large private cellar of back vintages.

[Lars Carlberg]

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

Here is the issue. In 2018, Hofgut (and it sounds like other producers) used only the first run juice to make their wines. That might make for a racy set of wines and helps deal with hot vintage, where acidity drops pretty significantly as you press, but it seems like it leaves a question about longevity. Here is Lars’ response when I asked about it earlier (note that the thread is titled for the 2017, but Lars is responding to my post about the ‘18):

viewtopic.php?p=2958385#p2958385

I had read that the 2019 was similarly lightly pressed and that only the first run juice was used, and therefore had what was basically the same question that I had about the 18s. So this isn’t really about whether Saar wines can age. I don’t think anyone debates that. I’ve had tons of beautiful Egon Muller wines from the 70s that, while undrinkable because they are completely infected with TCA, have otherwise aged beautifully. And that is just one example. My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

A

I guess maybe I wasn't clear, but I meant that that's correct. The Webers also lightly pressed their grapes in the 2019 vintage. But, as I wrote in that earlier thread, the first pressing doesn't only include the free-run juice. I'm not bothered by your questions at all. You're an astute observer. A number of big-name German producers have purchased expensive Bucher basket presses for a part of their production because these are very gentle and give the equivalent of free-run juice.

[Lars Carlberg]

My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

Are they the first Saar winery to have ever done this? Again, shouldn't there be a history about what has happened using first run juice only on Saar wines? My question is not whether you were right or wrong raising this but why there isn't an easy answer based on history to your question.

Well, that was sort of my question as well, both in April and in this thread. I don’t have a perfect answer yet, although it sounds like Lars knows of others who have done so. As to the history, winemaking techniques are adapting for climate change so I’m not sure it is true that there is an easy answer based on the past. 2018 just sort of feels like a breaking point and a watershed moment in a lot of ways. And using only the first press is an expensive proposition. One would have to be willing to make a real financial sacrifice for the sake of producing wines in the preferred style.
A

The Webers intuitively chose to fraction a part of the pressing in the 2018 vintage, but they always did whole-bunch pressing. Most producers lightly crush and press the grapes, which gives more juice and a different style of wine. One can also macerate the crushed grapes before pressing. As for fractioning, certain producers keep all the pressings from a given batch for different wines, so there's no real financial sacrifice. Once again, I don't want to name names or give away all the details about the Webers' pressing regimen in a wine forum.

[A.Gillette]

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

Here is the issue. In 2018, Hofgut (and it sounds like other producers) used only the first run juice to make their wines. That might make for a racy set of wines and helps deal with hot vintage, where acidity drops pretty significantly as you press, but it seems like it leaves a question about longevity. Here is Lars’ response when I asked about it earlier (note that the thread is titled for the 2017, but Lars is responding to my post about the ‘18):

viewtopic.php?p=2958385#p2958385

I had read that the 2019 was similarly lightly pressed and that only the first run juice was used, and therefore had what was basically the same question that I had about the 18s. So this isn’t really about whether Saar wines can age. I don’t think anyone debates that. I’ve had tons of beautiful Egon Muller wines from the 70s that, while undrinkable because they are completely infected with TCA, have otherwise aged beautifully. And that is just one example. My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

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I guess maybe I wasn't clear, but I meant that that's correct. The Webers also lightly pressed their grapes in the 2019 vintage. But, as I wrote in that earlier thread, the first pressing doesn't only include the free-run juice. I'm not bothered by your questions at all. You're an astute observer. A number of big-name German producers have purchased expensive Bucher basket presses for a part of their production because these are very gentle and give the equivalent of free-run juice.

Thanks Lars. I appreciate the response. As I think more about the thread, I guess part of what’s so interesting, and what makes the Hofgut Falkenstein wines so exciting, is that the really are different than anything else produced in the Saar. The wines are unique. In any event, I just checked my own records. I started buying these in the 2013 vintage. For the 2018/19 vintages, I’ve got about 60 bottles from each vintage. I’ve got more than that in 2017. So I will be able to drink a few bottles a year for the next 50 years and can report back.
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[D@ve D y r 0 f f]

Another thing that makes HF unique among European wineries is having Lars here, participating so frequently and openly (even if he has to keep a "house secret" to himself now and again).

Being able to connect with the estate like this is tremendous, and very much appreciated!

[Brian S t o t t e r]

Agreed. Really like having Lars post here and his responsiveness on IG, especially if you post a pic of a Hofgut Falkenstein wine and haven't tagged it properly

[A.Gillette]

Agreed! Lots of useful information from Lars, particularly if you become a member of his site. Lots of useful articles for subscribers there.
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[Doug Sher]

I think that if a bottle of wine has been open and does not decline, it is a good indicator of it's ageability. In 2016, I was given several cases of bottles of various 2015 Falkenstein wines that had been opened before I received them. The corks were put back in the bottle and they sat in cases in the hallway of my apartment. I finished the last bottles about four months after I received them and noticed no deterioration in quality. Additionally, I have kept bottles of various vintages that were half finished (mostly auslese and spatlese) in the fridge for a month with similar "results". Unfortunately, all of these were 2015 or later as that was my first vintage.

I think they are quite ageworthy, but hard to age as I have never found one to be less than delicious.

While it hasn't received as much attention as some of the other 2019's, the Ober Schaferhaus is also worth seeking out. It's the most exciting trocken Falkenstein wine that I've ever had the pleasure of tasting. I've killed 10 bottles out of a case thus far, although some of them have been gifted to friends.

[G. Curd]

That's double me lol

I have around 120 bottles
Sames as a good Danish friend near by
We look forward to drink them at age 20

I am well over 500 not counting mags as double so I hope so too...