Best value elite Bordeaux?

Hi everyone- I’m starting to really enjoy Bordeaux and would like some wisdom/advice; how would you recommend going about getting some elite bottles for home consumption? I don’t have thousands to spend on first growths in top vintages, but could pay $150+ on a few bottles of excellent stuff. Where do you think the best value for really good Bordeaux lies (realizing the very best is out of my price range)? First growths in weak vintages? Super seconds? Second labels? Would love to hear both general thoughts as well as specific producers and vintages to seek.

I got a great deal on a 2000 Forts de Latour, and am pretty excited about it- was this the right way to go? I do enjoy Bordeaux with some age and favor wines that are ready to drink, as opposed to ones that require laying down for years (I live in a small apartment). Recently enjoyed a perfectly stored 1986 Chasse-Spleen that was magnificent and that got me excited for what else is out there. Thanks so much!

Leoville Barton

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I think super seconds or their equivalent in right bank wines are probably the right bet. First growths in weak vintages can be very good, but the starting price is usually more like $350-400 and I don’t think they’re worth it unless you really want a first growth. For example in the last few years I’ve had 1994 Haut Brion and 1999 Margaux. Both excellent wines, but you can easily find equal quality in lower ranked wines from better vintages.

I think there’s a sweet spot in mature or close to mature vintages which are not at the very top of the vintage charts, for instance 2001 Pichon Lalande, 2004 Vieux Chateau Certan and 2006 La Conseillante are wines I’ve had that are really excellent and drink very well, but will still age well for many years. There are lots of other choices in the super seconds.

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Doubtless, but you gotta like the style (I do).

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Grand Puy Lacoste
Carmes HB
pichon lalande
La Croix Ducru-Beaucaillou
Domaine de Chavelier
1986 Chateau Meyney

Honestly, there are so many good choices out there. All depends on what you like.

Buy some of the less expensive ones at auction to taste around before you go dropping big bucks. If you don’t have storage there’s no point to start buying $150 bottles to hold onto.

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Agree with Chang man and Craig. You’d be wise to focus on backfilling. Weaker vintages can really surprise you. Don’t buy anything on release unless it’s an absolute steal. Oh, and don’t buy modern, glossy wines-- they’re a waste of money, that’s for the Napa folks :slight_smile:

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This.

And this.

Not necessarily from a taste perspective as I’ve never had a truly top pomerol yet (have had L’Eglise Clinet and similar level), but it always struck me that Lafleur seems cheap compared to Petrus and Le Pin - albeit much harder to get your hands on.

I appreciate that before 2015, the recent vintages werent produced to the same level, but it seems now Lafleur have really upped their game, and the ~500/bottle seems pretty cheap in comparison to the other two?

Would love to have some more informed views on this

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Already quite good advice here, but if you like Bordeaux with age I would recommend dabbling fairly far down the scale in really good years (e.g. 1985, 1989, 1990, 1996) that are drinking fabulously now. Take a look at Winebid - they have 1996 Talbot, Gruaud Larose, Grand Puy Lacoste, and Calon Segur this week. All should be ready now and nicely representative. Or try something younger from a fine but not top vintage like 1999, 2001, 2004, 2006 as Craig recommended.

Don’t get hung up on 2nd growth vs. 5th growth. Read Cellar Tracker to see what others are experiencing and pick a few. If you are dying to try a first growth make friends with folks with cellars in your city and prepare to be delighted at how generously this community shares (of course, limited by Covid for now).

To your underlined point, I second Craig’s recommendation of Vieux Chateau Certain. Personally, I think it is among the greatest of the Bordeax Chateaux, often producing jaw-dropping wines and generally very consistent. It is “elite,” and if you want value, backfill on it. You can find bottles of the 2004 for about 1/2 of new release prices. I also like VCC’s 2001 and 2008 very much for value, and 2011.

Since you commented on the 1986 Chasse Spleen, try to find some of the Cordier wines from the 1980s, like Meyney, Gruaud Larose, Cantemerle, Talbot and La Lagune. The 86 Meyney, while on its back slope, is such an excellent QPR.

At the top of your level, Montrose, Pichon Lalande and Ducru Beaucaillou. All three make great wines but need lots of time. If you want a hint of their style at a lower price try their second wines or close to second wines like Croix Beaucaillou.

Other top wines at a lower price would be Rauzan Segla, Calon Segur, Beycheville and Lynch Bages. Values include Cantemerle, Clos Marquis, la Lagune, and Chasse Spleen.

To elaborate on one of Howard’s choices, 1983 Cantemerle is typically around $50-60 hammer price at auction. That’s about the current release price. It is a beautiful wine, drinking brilliantly now. (The 2016 by the way is also fabulous but very young.)

Echoing some other comments above and adding a few, there are so many good Bordeaux I’m personally always looking for at auction from the ‘90s and earlier in the $150 or lower range with some vintages going for higher typically and some lower: Montrose, Calon Segur, Pichon Lalande, Ducru, VCC, Leoville Barton and Poyferre, Domaine de Chevalier, Magdelaine, Figeac, Pape Clement, Haut Bailly, L’Evangile, Rauzan Segla, Certan de May.

Lalande, Ducru, L’Evangile, and VCC are getting a little hard to find in that range but not impossible as Robert suggests for VCC.

I’ll second Jayson’s list. Great list. DDC and Pape Clement are the only ones not particularly in my wheelhouse but I’d happily drink them and they fit the OP’s request.

I did neglect to put Gruaud on the list. Can be so good.

I agree with much of the above, with the caveat that my experience is much more limited than many of those chiming in above. One of the wines I have really loved recently is the 2000 Figeac. That is I think a little over 150, but really excellent right now, so hits a lot of your requirements.

I am also getting through the end of my 2000 Cantemerle. Just a fantastic wine and value. Not amazing – there are definitely some levels up from it, but boy is it a great wine at the price.

One suggestion to echo from above is to try some of the lesser Chateaus (Meyney, Cantemerle, etc.) in good to great vintages from the 80s and 90s. Those are below your price range, but will help you identify your more specific taste preferences as you move up the price ladder. But if you want to jump to the 150 or so mark, the 2000 Figeac is excellent right now.

LMHB
In less heralded vintages

Thanks everyone- this is exactly the sort of answer I was hoping for. Any thoughts on second labels? Also, isn’t La Mission Haut Brion basically proved like a first growth?

LMHB is excellent – the few I have had have been memorable. If you can find them in that price range I would recommend. I think current pricing is way above your stated limit. But some older vintages in less good yeas, as Claus suggests, may work.

I mentioned above already, 2nd label
Croix ducru beaucaillou.