TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

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Tomás Costa
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TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#1 Post by Tomás Costa » November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am

It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?
127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#2 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » November 22nd, 2020, 7:55 am

Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
I agree that the Chambolle AC is tremendous and probably the best value in the line along with the Bourgogne.

I think the Chambolle charmes is only twice as much as the ac, and is definitely a step up. The more expensive premier cru are mostly from vosne which are very different wines.

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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#3 Post by Ramon C » November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am

And they age well, too!

I've currently lined-up my remaining 2002 for near term drinking. Drank the last 3 in the last 4 years and they all are in very good form.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#4 Post by Tomás Costa » November 22nd, 2020, 8:12 am

Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!

I've currently lined-up my remaining 2002 for near term drinking. Drank the last 3 in the last 4 years and they all are in very good form.
No doubt. I imagine this will be a stunner in 10 years time.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#5 Post by Tomás Costa » November 22nd, 2020, 8:23 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:55 am
Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
I agree that the Chambolle AC is tremendous and probably the best value in the line along with the Bourgogne.

I think the Chambolle charmes is only twice as much as the ac, and is definitely a step up. The more expensive premier cru are mostly from vosne which are very different wines.
How do you feel about the village Vosne compared to the Chambolle?
Last edited by Tomás Costa on November 22nd, 2020, 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#6 Post by Sean S y d n e y » November 22nd, 2020, 8:49 am

Great note - can't wait to pop one.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#7 Post by Robert Sand » November 22nd, 2020, 10:18 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:55 am
Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
I agree that the Chambolle AC is tremendous and probably the best value in the line along with the Bourgogne.

I think the Chambolle charmes is only twice as much as the ac, and is definitely a step up. The more expensive premier cru are mostly from vosne which are very different wines.
Fwiw I had the Chambolle Charmes HN a month ago , and while it was a nice wine, quite fragrant and feminine, it failed to create real excitement (among the group as well as with me). Came out last in the flight with M.Gros Reas and Confuron CM 1er Cru. It was simply a bit one dimensional and felt "light", lacking length.

Not to complain, but I'd rather buy the other two for less.

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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#8 Post by alan weinberg » November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am

Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.

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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#9 Post by Lonnie F. » November 22nd, 2020, 12:49 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am
Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.
Sorry for my ignorance.
What do AC and lieux dits mean?

Thanks,

Lonnie
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#10 Post by Howard Cooper » November 22nd, 2020, 1:33 pm

Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
Four times the price? I paid $150 for the 2017 Clos Vougeot (a grand cru). The 2017 villages wines, which I agree are excellent wines and values, are $60-70.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#11 Post by Howard Cooper » November 22nd, 2020, 1:35 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:55 am
Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
I agree that the Chambolle AC is tremendous and probably the best value in the line along with the Bourgogne.

I think the Chambolle charmes is only twice as much as the ac, and is definitely a step up. The more expensive premier cru are mostly from vosne which are very different wines.
Do you rate the Chambolle AC a better value than the Vosne Romanee AC?
Howard

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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#12 Post by Howard Cooper » November 22nd, 2020, 1:41 pm

Lonnie F. wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 12:49 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am
Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.
Sorry for my ignorance.
What do AC andd lieux dits mean?

Thanks,

Lonnie
AC is an abbreviation for appellation controlee. As used here, it refers I believe to wines only allowed a villages AC, as opposed to a higher AC.

Lieux dits is an individual vineyard site, as I understand it. Here I believe it refers to a wine only entitled to a villages AC but which come from one site in the villages, as opposed to a blend of wines from multiple sites within the AC.
Last edited by Howard Cooper on November 22nd, 2020, 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#13 Post by Kent Comley » November 22nd, 2020, 1:42 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am
Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.
Tend to agree with this although caveat that they need to be from the more 'soleil' vintages.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#14 Post by Howard Cooper » November 22nd, 2020, 2:02 pm

Kent Comley wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 1:42 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am
Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.
Tend to agree with this although caveat that they need to be from the more 'soleil' vintages.
[scratch.gif]. When did we last have a vintage that wasn’t or are you just saying that climate change is making villages level wines better?
Howard

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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#15 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » November 22nd, 2020, 2:06 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 1:35 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:55 am
Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
I agree that the Chambolle AC is tremendous and probably the best value in the line along with the Bourgogne.

I think the Chambolle charmes is only twice as much as the ac, and is definitely a step up. The more expensive premier cru are mostly from vosne which are very different wines.
Do you rate the Chambolle AC a better value than the Vosne Romanee AC?
I generally like the Chambolle a bit more. I find the HN vosne 1er and grand cru of a bit more interest for me, especially suchots.

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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#16 Post by Kent Comley » November 22nd, 2020, 2:55 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 2:02 pm
Kent Comley wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 1:42 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.
Tend to agree with this although caveat that they need to be from the more 'soleil' vintages.
[scratch.gif]. When did we last have a vintage that wasn’t or are you just saying that climate change is making villages level wines better?
Villages wines in vintages like 2004 and 2011 really struggle. But ib general warmer vintages give cooler vineyards a leg up. Suspect greater demand, higher prices and improved production methods benefit the average quality of villages wines, without citing empirical data.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#17 Post by Jeremy Holmes » November 22nd, 2020, 2:56 pm

Had the '13 of this on the weekend. It was a little skinny through the mid-palate and needs a bit more time.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#18 Post by Tomás Costa » November 23rd, 2020, 7:38 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 1:33 pm
Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
Four times the price? I paid $150 for the 2017 Clos Vougeot (a grand cru). The 2017 villages wines, which I agree are excellent wines and values, are $60-70.
When it comes to the 2017 vintage at current retail prices in Europe, I got this village wine for 38€ and the Vosne premiers sell for around 155-160€ (Charmes, as Michael mentioned, is an exception). So yes, it is pretty much four times the price. I'm imagining it may have been different on release, or US pricing isn't the same in the exact proportion.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#19 Post by jason stein » November 23rd, 2020, 8:45 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 1:33 pm
Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
Four times the price? I paid $150 for the 2017 Clos Vougeot (a grand cru). The 2017 villages wines, which I agree are excellent wines and values, are $60-70.
Would love to have been offered the Clos Vougeot for that...
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#20 Post by Howard Cooper » November 23rd, 2020, 8:53 am

jason stein wrote:
November 23rd, 2020, 8:45 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 1:33 pm
Tomás Costa wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 7:49 am
It should come as no surprise to anyone that this is just gorgeous. PnP and singing right from the first moment: enveloping, broad nose of intense (though never candied) red fruit, fresh herbs, intense trail of white pepper and beautiful chalkiness and granite. The acidity is extremely vibrant and volumous without ever being unapproachable or hard, with a seemingly endless end palate. A beauty which I can't imagine ever not drinking well in its future development. Really glad I splurged on this wine and still have another five bottles left. Enormous step up from the linear Bourgogne, and why buy Premier Cru at four times the price?

127128960_1855765601240899_3590423908402335627_o.jpg
Four times the price? I paid $150 for the 2017 Clos Vougeot (a grand cru). The 2017 villages wines, which I agree are excellent wines and values, are $60-70.
Would love to have been offered the Clos Vougeot for that...
It was on the website at MacArthur Beverages in DC for a decent amount of time for that price. So, you could have purchased it.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#21 Post by jason stein » November 23rd, 2020, 8:54 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
November 23rd, 2020, 8:53 am
jason stein wrote:
November 23rd, 2020, 8:45 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 1:33 pm


Four times the price? I paid $150 for the 2017 Clos Vougeot (a grand cru). The 2017 villages wines, which I agree are excellent wines and values, are $60-70.
Would love to have been offered the Clos Vougeot for that...
It was on the website at MacArthur Beverages in DC for a decent amount of time for that price. So, you could have purchased it.
Good to know!
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#22 Post by Brian Lynch » November 23rd, 2020, 9:12 am

alan weinberg wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am
Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.


What age curve would you generally apply to the AC and LD wines?
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#23 Post by alan weinberg » November 23rd, 2020, 5:08 pm

Brian Lynch wrote:
November 23rd, 2020, 9:12 am
alan weinberg wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:41 am
Ramon C wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:04 am
And they age well, too!
though I’m pretty happy with my Burg collection, were I to have a do over, I’d buy cases of AC and lieux dits wines instead of bottles of grand cru. They age tremendously and the disparity between them and grand cru diminishes a lot with age.


What age curve would you generally apply to the AC and LD wines?
kind of depends on cellar temp, producer, vineyard, vintage, and how you like wine but 20+ years no issue at all.

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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#24 Post by Brian Lynch » November 23rd, 2020, 5:23 pm

59 degrees, HN AC Chambolle, 14-16 vintages; just a rough sweet spot
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#25 Post by Brady Daniels » November 23rd, 2020, 6:52 pm

Brian Lynch wrote:
November 23rd, 2020, 5:23 pm
59 degrees, HN AC Chambolle, 14-16 vintages; just a rough sweet spot
Brian, as with many burgs, I’d recommend drinking these in the first two to three years, or waiting at least ten years, preferably fifteen. HN's current style is very rewarding in its youth. The time in between age two and fifteen often yields disappointing wines that have lost their luscious fruit, but haven’t yet developed tertiary complexity. These are the burgundies characterized as “thin and insipid.”

Of course this is old wisdom, and every vintage is different, and some seem to drink well forever. I’ll be interested to see how 18-20 age. Many 2017’s are still rocking right now.

There is no harm in popping one to see how it’s going, especially if you have more.

If you are already experienced with burg and your question was laser focused on HN village wines, I apologize. My few bottles are sleeping until around 2030.
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Re: TN: 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny

#26 Post by Tomás Costa » November 24th, 2020, 6:53 am

Brady Daniels wrote:
November 23rd, 2020, 6:52 pm
Brian Lynch wrote:
November 23rd, 2020, 5:23 pm
59 degrees, HN AC Chambolle, 14-16 vintages; just a rough sweet spot
Brian, as with many burgs, I’d recommend drinking these in the first two to three years, or waiting at least ten years, preferably fifteen. HN's current style is very rewarding in its youth. The time in between age two and fifteen often yields disappointing wines that have lost their luscious fruit, but haven’t yet developed tertiary complexity. These are the burgundies characterized as “thin and insipid.”

Of course this is old wisdom, and every vintage is different, and some seem to drink well forever. I’ll be interested to see how 18-20 age. Many 2017’s are still rocking right now.

There is no harm in popping one to see how it’s going, especially if you have more.

If you are already experienced with burg and your question was laser focused on HN village wines, I apologize. My few bottles are sleeping until around 2030.
Vintage Port is or was also known to have similar 'dumb phases', though in those cases the wines are more unbalanced rather than shut down. David Guimaraens has expressed the idea that improvements in winemaking, namely the quality of the fortifying spirit, will alleviate or either eliminate this issue of the dumb phase in these younger Port vintages. So, I was wondering whether more recent vintages of red Burgundy might also be expected to be less coiled in that traditionally awkward phase.

Another question I've always had is why it is that red Burgundy does not age in the linear fashion that so many other wines do...
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