The zenith of score inflation?

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bweimer
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The zenith of score inflation?

#1 Post by bweimer »

The top 22 wines in James Suckling's Top 100 Wines of 2020 are 100 pointers. There are more 100 pointers in the list but I didn't have the patience to go through the entire list.

https://www.jamessuckling.com/wine-tast ... ines-2020/
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#2 Post by Jeff Rosenberg »

James who?

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#3 Post by Dennis Borczon »

Only 22? Damn he must be tightening up.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#4 Post by Rauno E (NZ) »

So... if there were more than 22 100 pointers, how did he select the top 22?
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#5 Post by bweimer »

You got me there. I just noticed the wine in 100th place was a 98 pointer.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#6 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f »

I'm going to start a wine rating service. Send me two bottles of any wine you make and/or sell and I'll open one and rate it and you can publish the rating however you like to help move your product. For your trouble, I guarantee all wines will be rated at least 99 points!

* All wines will be scored to the nearest .01 points...

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#7 Post by J. Rock »

Rauno E (NZ) wrote: November 20th, 2020, 12:37 pm So... if there were more than 22 100 pointers, how did he select the top 22?
Typically these lists consider value, availability, and possible even an "x factor," in addition to quality.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#8 Post by JBrochu »

How many points did Suckling give Neil Young?
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#9 Post by Robert Sand »

I´m not sure, but the 1st red wine from France is 61st place? (ridiculous)
A German wine is 2nd (not that I´m sad about that ...)

I never did care much about JS - but when friends served me a wine with xxx Suckling points I have to say:
usually they were not bad - but usually not exciting either ... so what?
I would never give anything about S-points ...

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#10 Post by John Morris »

bweimer wrote: November 20th, 2020, 10:03 am The top 22 wines in James Suckling's Top 100 Wines of 2020 are 100 pointers. There are more 100 pointers in the list but I didn't have the patience to go through the entire list.

https://www.jamessuckling.com/wine-tast ... ines-2020/
He gave 98 points or more to 100 wines:
And all the children are above average
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#11 Post by Mark Henderson »

Without going back to the article, I seem to remember a comment that the wines had to score at least 98pts to make the Top 100.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#12 Post by PeterH »

The only thing I can tell from a Suckling score is the degree to which he thought it was to his advantage to like the wine.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#13 Post by John Ammons »

If he likes a young Argentina Pinot all of 100 points, I wonder what he'd think of a mature Red Burg that's showing particularly well.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#14 Post by R Scott Hughes »

Here on WB and any other place you find oenophiles, Suckling is pretty much a running joke. I am somewhat surprised that we even waste mindshare discussing him anymore - but we do. That being said, if his goal is self-enrichment (as opposed to being a respected reviewer of wines), then his approach is pure genius. Just like the ratings agencies that found they got a lot more business by being generous reviewers of bonds (and hence were able to make more money and helped to crash the economy in the aughts ), JS likely has an endless stream of winemakers seeking out his scores. You and I and pretty much everyone else here on WB knows that his numbers are inflated and useless, it becomes a positive feedback loop for him. The more often casual wine drinkers see his name, the stronger his brand becomes. And because the little wine ratings tags at the supermarket and local wine store matter and really do help move wine, the more wine he helps to move which gives winemakers more incentive to seek out a JS score. If I lacked shame but had a flair for self promotion, I would absolutely take JS's approach.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#15 Post by Robert M yers »

What did Luca and Wilfred give them?

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#16 Post by Mark Golodetz »

R Scott Hughes wrote: November 21st, 2020, 3:46 am Here on WB and any other place you find oenophiles, Suckling is pretty much a running joke. I am somewhat surprised that we even waste mindshare discussing him anymore - but we do. That being said, if his goal is self-enrichment (as opposed to being a respected reviewer of wines), then his approach is pure genius. Just like the ratings agencies that found they got a lot more business by being generous reviewers of bonds (and hence were able to make more money and helped to crash the economy in the aughts ), JS likely has an endless stream of winemakers seeking out his scores. You and I and pretty much everyone else here on WB knows that his numbers are inflated and useless, it becomes a positive feedback loop for him. The more often casual wine drinkers see his name, the stronger his brand becomes. And because the little wine ratings tags at the supermarket and local wine store matter and really do help move wine, the more wine he helps to move which gives winemakers more incentive to seek out a JS score. If I lacked shame but had a flair for self promotion, I would absolutely take JS's approach.
Reading Michael Lewis’ book, I understood that the ratings agencies weren’t kind to boost income, but too damned stupid to understand what was going on.

I am sorry to say that Suckling has completely crapped on his brand. He is the critic’s equivalent of Crying Wolf.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#17 Post by John Glas »

Usually if James gives a wine 92 points I might buy it. The wine will be more balanced and lower than 14% alcohol.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#18 Post by John Glas »

I'm going to start a wine rating service. Send me two bottles of any wine you make and/or sell and I'll open one and rate it and you can publish the rating however you like to help move your product. For your trouble, I guarantee all wines will be rated at least 99 points!
I will cover Bordeaux and Burgundy for you!

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#19 Post by Ian Sutton »

Suckling is simply playing the game. High scores get him mentions and in the good books of producers. I'm sure he can milk it for a few years yet and presumably already has himself a comfortable lifestyle.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#20 Post by J D o v e »

Mark Golodetz wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:03 am
R Scott Hughes wrote: November 21st, 2020, 3:46 am Here on WB and any other place you find oenophiles, Suckling is pretty much a running joke. I am somewhat surprised that we even waste mindshare discussing him anymore - but we do. That being said, if his goal is self-enrichment (as opposed to being a respected reviewer of wines), then his approach is pure genius. Just like the ratings agencies that found they got a lot more business by being generous reviewers of bonds (and hence were able to make more money and helped to crash the economy in the aughts ), JS likely has an endless stream of winemakers seeking out his scores. You and I and pretty much everyone else here on WB knows that his numbers are inflated and useless, it becomes a positive feedback loop for him. The more often casual wine drinkers see his name, the stronger his brand becomes. And because the little wine ratings tags at the supermarket and local wine store matter and really do help move wine, the more wine he helps to move which gives winemakers more incentive to seek out a JS score. If I lacked shame but had a flair for self promotion, I would absolutely take JS's approach.
Reading Michael Lewis’ book, I understood that the ratings agencies weren’t kind to boost income, but too damned stupid to understand what was going on.

I am sorry to say that Suckling has completely crapped on his brand. He is the critic’s equivalent of Crying Wolf.
Yeah, But don’t under estimate the number of people who buy $100 a bottle wine and don’t know or care a damn thing about wine or critics.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#21 Post by blarmston »

People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#22 Post by Dan Hammer »

The #1 wine on the list has just one so-so note on Cellartracker.
This space for rent.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#23 Post by Charlie Carnes »

blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
Goodness forbid, we discuss wine score inflation on a site that is named WINE Berserkers. Brian, this is the perfect place to discuss critical score inflation. Critics need to be checked too. Some of the best, most well read, and experienced palates anywhere reside here.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#24 Post by Dennis Borczon »

blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
He does live in Tuscany

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#25 Post by Mark Golodetz »

blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
“What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul”
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#26 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Charlie Carnes wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 4:42 am
blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
Goodness forbid, we discuss wine score inflation on a site that is named WINE Berserkers. Brian, this is the perfect place to discuss critical score inflation. Critics need to be checked too. Some of the best, most well read, and experienced palates anywhere reside here.
No kidding. I’ve thought this guy a fool since way back in the days when he wrote for the Wine Spincter and was less famous. He’s one of the primary reasons why I dropped my subscription like around 1999/2000, if I’m recalling dates correctly. I do envy his hair and Hermes scarves, however.

The post did make my chuckle though as I immediately started rapping one of me all-time faves:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com ... two-lyrics






PS. Now MarkG gonna be pissed that I wove rap into this tasting note! F*ck.
Last edited by Robert.A.Jr. on November 22nd, 2020, 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#27 Post by Mattstolz »

one thing I will say is I think it makes sense that their 100 pointers are at the top of the list at least. I never understand how a publication can give out 100 point scores during the year that DONT make their top 100 list. there's some cognitive dissonance going on when your number 1 wine got 94 points from you in the same year

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#28 Post by RichardFlack »

Has any one done any analysis to see if his scores affect prices , compared to say Parker scores? I’d suspect that, on other than mass market wines, he has little price effect. If so is his business model actually successful.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#29 Post by GregT »

Dennis Borczon wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 4:51 am
blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
He does live in Tuscany
Hong Kong these days. And he doesn't really care what people on WB think of him because he has thousands of followers who attend his events.

Blarmston is right - the guy is living a nice life, has a good time, and gets to taste any wine in the world. And seriously, what's the difference between him and anyone else?

Look at the prices people on this board will pay for a new Napa release that's good, but just another ripe, well-made, big wine that isn't going to improve much over the years. To some people price really matters and rather than pay $50 for an interesting wine, they'll pay $450 for a Veblen wine.

And then others will pay the same for a Burgundy that they couldn't identify blind, but the label matters so much because suddenly they can talk about the soil and the history.

Suckling's followers typically don't pay those kinds of prices and they have just as much fun.

I have no trouble with any approach, as it's a person's right to do as he wishes, and I really don't care too much about the scores from Suckling or anyone else, but surely there's some irony in criticizing his approach.

Now that I'm done with that, what exactly is a Suckling score these days?

He has two or three other people doing reviews, so is it like a 100 from Parker that really came from Dr. Jay? And at least according to the photos, they make no pretense of blind tasting.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#30 Post by Mike Kuller »

A couple of years ago I stopped at Total Wines and did their 5 cent wine tasting.

There were a few under $20 wines that Suckling had given 92 points to (maybe Amici wines were being featured).

I asked the wine pourer how these marginal tasting wines got such high scores from him. She informed me that he tastes his wines in price point groups - so the $20 wines are tasted against other $20 wines.

So these were good enough in that group to get 92 pts. - and to put it on the shelf label ads for the wines.

The point scores are meaningless then - two different wines with a 92pt score in different price ranges would have very different scores on an absolute scale. Seems he's doing this for the wine makers and not so much the consumers.

Of course Parker has retired so what do the RP scores mean?

And Wine Spectator has had a change of tasters - I liked Laube - but don't know the others.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#31 Post by Scott G r u n e r »

blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines.
I am not internationally known, but I am known to rock the microphone.

Kim kardashian is also rich and famous. doesn’t mean she has tastes that align to my own.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#32 Post by Mike Kuller »

Scott G r u n e r wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 11:59 am
blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines.
I am not internationally known, but I am known to rock the microphone.

Kim kardashian is also rich and famous. doesn’t mean she has tastes that align to my own.
Are you saying JS is the Kim Kardashian of wine raters?

[rofl.gif]
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#33 Post by RichardFlack »

Mike Kuller wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 12:23 pm
Scott G r u n e r wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 11:59 am
blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines.
I am not internationally known, but I am known to rock the microphone.

Kim kardashian is also rich and famous. doesn’t mean she has tastes that align to my own.
Are you saying JS is the Kim Kardashian of wine raters?

[rofl.gif]
No, Kim Kardashian is the Suckling of influencers. [rofl.gif]

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#34 Post by Jon H »

Mike Kuller wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 11:36 am A couple of years ago I stopped at Total Wines and did their 5 cent wine tasting.

There were a few under $20 wines that Suckling had given 92 points to (maybe Amici wines were being featured).

I asked the wine pourer how these marginal tasting wines got such high scores from him. She informed me that he tastes his wines in price point groups - so the $20 wines are tasted against other $20 wines.

So these were good enough in that group to get 92 pts. - and to put it on the shelf label ads for the wines.

The point scores are meaningless then - two different wines with a 92pt score in different price ranges would have very different scores on an absolute scale. Seems he's doing this for the wine makers and not so much the consumers.

Of course Parker has retired so what do the RP scores mean?

And Wine Spectator has had a change of tasters - I liked Laube - but don't know the others.
As much as I dislike Suckling’s scores, there’s some validity to the approach in terms of aiding the consumer. But only if it’s clear how he’s doing his scoring, which it is not. He should really issue two scores if he’s going to take this approach... the first being an absolute score and the second being a QPR score
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#35 Post by Kent Comley »

Interesting, just a normal distribution I assume?

Nice to see somw good Aussies on the list, but no Burgundies?
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#36 Post by Mike Kuller »

Jon H wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 4:06 pm
Mike Kuller wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 11:36 am A couple of years ago I stopped at Total Wines and did their 5 cent wine tasting.

There were a few under $20 wines that Suckling had given 92 points to (maybe Amici wines were being featured).

I asked the wine pourer how these marginal tasting wines got such high scores from him. She informed me that he tastes his wines in price point groups - so the $20 wines are tasted against other $20 wines.

So these were good enough in that group to get 92 pts. - and to put it on the shelf label ads for the wines.

The point scores are meaningless then - two different wines with a 92pt score in different price ranges would have very different scores on an absolute scale. Seems he's doing this for the wine makers and not so much the consumers.

Of course Parker has retired so what do the RP scores mean?

And Wine Spectator has had a change of tasters - I liked Laube - but don't know the others.
As much as I dislike Suckling’s scores, there’s some validity to the approach in terms of aiding the consumer. But only if it’s clear how he’s doing his scoring, which it is not. He should really issue two scores if he’s going to take this approach... the first being an absolute score and the second being a QPR score
85/92?
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#37 Post by blarmston »

Scott G r u n e r wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 11:59 am
blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines.
I am not internationally known, but I am known to rock the microphone.



Kim kardashian is also rich and famous. doesn’t mean she has tastes that align to my own.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#38 Post by Jon H »

Mike Kuller wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 5:11 pm
Jon H wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 4:06 pm
Mike Kuller wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 11:36 am A couple of years ago I stopped at Total Wines and did their 5 cent wine tasting.

There were a few under $20 wines that Suckling had given 92 points to (maybe Amici wines were being featured).

I asked the wine pourer how these marginal tasting wines got such high scores from him. She informed me that he tastes his wines in price point groups - so the $20 wines are tasted against other $20 wines.

So these were good enough in that group to get 92 pts. - and to put it on the shelf label ads for the wines.

The point scores are meaningless then - two different wines with a 92pt score in different price ranges would have very different scores on an absolute scale. Seems he's doing this for the wine makers and not so much the consumers.

Of course Parker has retired so what do the RP scores mean?

And Wine Spectator has had a change of tasters - I liked Laube - but don't know the others.
As much as I dislike Suckling’s scores, there’s some validity to the approach in terms of aiding the consumer. But only if it’s clear how he’s doing his scoring, which it is not. He should really issue two scores if he’s going to take this approach... the first being an absolute score and the second being a QPR score
85/92?
Ha yes exactly... to be clear. I don’t mean to defend JS. He’s clearly off base. I just think his system could actually be useful if he made it known how he approaches scoring.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#39 Post by larry schaffer »

GregT wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 11:18 am
Dennis Borczon wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 4:51 am
blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
He does live in Tuscany
Hong Kong these days. And he doesn't really care what people on WB think of him because he has thousands of followers who attend his events.

Blarmston is right - the guy is living a nice life, has a good time, and gets to taste any wine in the world. And seriously, what's the difference between him and anyone else?

Look at the prices people on this board will pay for a new Napa release that's good, but just another ripe, well-made, big wine that isn't going to improve much over the years. To some people price really matters and rather than pay $50 for an interesting wine, they'll pay $450 for a Veblen wine.

And then others will pay the same for a Burgundy that they couldn't identify blind, but the label matters so much because suddenly they can talk about the soil and the history.

Suckling's followers typically don't pay those kinds of prices and they have just as much fun.

I have no trouble with any approach, as it's a person's right to do as he wishes, and I really don't care too much about the scores from Suckling or anyone else, but surely there's some irony in criticizing his approach.
So well stated, my friend - surprised no one else has commented on your post.

And Happy Holidays!
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#40 Post by Michael Heinrich »

"2 Schloss Johannisberg Riesling Rheingau Grünlack Spätlese 2019

Score
100
What do you say about a wine that almost literally knocks you off your chair? ..."

I would really love to see him literally getting knocked down by a bottle of wine..

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#41 Post by Arv R »

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#42 Post by Keith Levenberg »

R Scott Hughes wrote: November 21st, 2020, 3:46 am Here on WB and any other place you find oenophiles, Suckling is pretty much a running joke. I am somewhat surprised that we even waste mindshare discussing him anymore - but we do. That being said, if his goal is self-enrichment (as opposed to being a respected reviewer of wines), then his approach is pure genius. Just like the ratings agencies that found they got a lot more business by being generous reviewers of bonds (and hence were able to make more money and helped to crash the economy in the aughts ), JS likely has an endless stream of winemakers seeking out his scores. You and I and pretty much everyone else here on WB knows that his numbers are inflated and useless, it becomes a positive feedback loop for him. The more often casual wine drinkers see his name, the stronger his brand becomes. And because the little wine ratings tags at the supermarket and local wine store matter and really do help move wine, the more wine he helps to move which gives winemakers more incentive to seek out a JS score. If I lacked shame but had a flair for self promotion, I would absolutely take JS's approach.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#43 Post by larry schaffer »

R Scott Hughes wrote: November 21st, 2020, 3:46 am Here on WB and any other place you find oenophiles, Suckling is pretty much a running joke. I am somewhat surprised that we even waste mindshare discussing him anymore - but we do. That being said, if his goal is self-enrichment (as opposed to being a respected reviewer of wines), then his approach is pure genius. Just like the ratings agencies that found they got a lot more business by being generous reviewers of bonds (and hence were able to make more money and helped to crash the economy in the aughts ), JS likely has an endless stream of winemakers seeking out his scores. You and I and pretty much everyone else here on WB knows that his numbers are inflated and useless, it becomes a positive feedback loop for him. The more often casual wine drinkers see his name, the stronger his brand becomes. And because the little wine ratings tags at the supermarket and local wine store matter and really do help move wine, the more wine he helps to move which gives winemakers more incentive to seek out a JS score. If I lacked shame but had a flair for self promotion, I would absolutely take JS's approach.
An interesting opinion, but I'm not sure it rings true.

You DO understand that the majority of folks on this site at any one time are online anonymously - and may not share your opinions.

And the more folks on here 'look down' upon wines and people that they feel are 'lesser', the more they will remain 'anonymous' . . .

Just another way of looking at things.

Cheers!
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#44 Post by Jayson Cohen »

“I try not to be pretentious about wine but . . . .”


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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#45 Post by Arjan Stavast »

I think I read somewhere that he rates some 15,000 wines a year, so arguably less than 1% at his highest score isn’t even that inflated? And Stuart Pigott (whom I like) has rated Germany in 2019 for him, so it can’t all be attributed to James Suckling himself.

Imho, the argument should be more focused on this rating system of 100 points where pretty much everything is 85 points and higher. I still fail to comprehend the logic behind that. I just don’t get how you can have a scale of which 85% is never even used. But maybe that’s something best reserved for another discussion...
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#46 Post by Reginald Wheeler »

blarmston wrote: November 21st, 2020, 6:28 pm People on this board love to hate on this guy. But I bet 98% of y’all secretly wish to be him.

He’s internationally known, respected in some circles (not here though, bunch of haters), most likely does well financially, travels the world, drinks amazing wines. Has a much better life than probably 98% of the folks on here.

If you think he’s a shitty reviewer, don’t read his reviews. If you think he inflates his scores to land lucrative business deals, don’t read his reviews. If you think he sucks up to winemakers for access, don’t read his reviews.

But some of the comments suggest there’s envy, jealousy, etc involved. It’s not a good look.
I totally agree with you. Luckily everyone is free to follow or listen to as they want. The rest is just whining.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#47 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Yes, he is doing very well. He is drinking well, has access to great wines. He is living a life which most of us dream of, yet there is a nagging problem here.


I’m going into a wine shop without knowing much, and seeing a Suckling 100 point wine. I decide it must not be just excellent but perfect. I drink it; it’s one of those goopy messes which Suckling adores. I conclude I really don’t like wine, because who am I to argue you with the “expert”.

The man has caused a huge amount of damage.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#48 Post by larry schaffer »

Mark Golodetz wrote: December 25th, 2020, 12:45 pm Yes, he is doing very well. He is drinking well, has access to great wines. He is living a life which most of us dream of, yet there is a nagging problem here.


I’m going into a wine shop without knowing much, and seeing a Suckling 100 point wine. I decide it must not be just excellent but perfect. I drink it; it’s one of those goopy messes which Suckling adores. I conclude I really don’t like wine, because who am I to argue you with the “expert”.

The man has caused a huge amount of damage.
Or . . . .

As with most things subjective, a person purchases a 100 pt JS wine, doesn't like it, and just thinks 'I don't get it' and wants to learne more . . .

Different strokes, my friend.
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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#49 Post by Sean Devaney »

Jon H wrote: December 24th, 2020, 8:59 pm
Mike Kuller wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 5:11 pm
Jon H wrote: November 22nd, 2020, 4:06 pm

As much as I dislike Suckling’s scores, there’s some validity to the approach in terms of aiding the consumer. But only if it’s clear how he’s doing his scoring, which it is not. He should really issue two scores if he’s going to take this approach... the first being an absolute score and the second being a QPR score
85/92?
Ha yes exactly... to be clear. I don’t mean to defend JS. He’s clearly off base. I just think his system could actually be useful if he made it known how he approaches scoring.
This is not a new concept. The late wine writer and critic Jerry Mead used this method transparently on his score up until his death in 2000.

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Re: The zenith of score inflation?

#50 Post by Tom G l a s g o w »

Arjan Stavast wrote: December 25th, 2020, 11:57 am I think I read somewhere that he rates some 15,000 wines a year, so arguably less than 1% at his highest score isn’t even that inflated? And Stuart Pigott (whom I like) has rated Germany in 2019 for him, so it can’t all be attributed to James Suckling himself.

Imho, the argument should be more focused on this rating system of 100 points where pretty much everything is 85 points and higher. I still fail to comprehend the logic behind that. I just don’t get how you can have a scale of which 85% is never even used. But maybe that’s something best reserved for another discussion...
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