God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8646
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 348 times

God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#1 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Parker used to write about Neil Young et al constantly, and now it’s Neal Martin. Actually he has been doing this for some time, but it just got to be a little annoying. His just completed article on the glorious 1959 vintage has just been published by Vinous. Let me say up front, that unlike Parker, Neal is an excellent writer, but why on earth should anybody care what he thinks about jazz?

This gem
“ Where’s the melody? The aleatoric nature of jazz, zigzagging like a fly trapped in a jar, keeps me at arms length. I completely understand why others are fanatical, obsessive about this musical form, but I must accept that just like single malt whiskey and golf, jazz ain’t for me.”
ITB

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 42873
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut
Has thanked: 491 times
Been thanked: 980 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#2 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Neal is happily obsessed with music. That's one of the things I really like about him.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Brian Tuite
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 22246
Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 8:53 am
Location: Podunk CA RRV
Has thanked: 489 times
Been thanked: 407 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#3 Post by Brian Tuite »

Shouldn’t this be in the critic’s bingo thread? [stirthepothal.gif]
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

”Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my shit.” ~ Alfert

WOTY Candidates

18 O&F Old Hill
16 LL 1910 Block
18 W&M Shifflett

Sarah Kirschbaum
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4362
Joined: September 20th, 2010, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 458 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#4 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum »

I have no problem with his talking about music. I like having a little more fleshed out picture of him as a person. I think it enhances his writing about wine. He posts food pictures on FB sometimes and chats about that, too. I find people talking about what they are interested in to be interesting. I don't think he has any responsibility to limit himself to wine talk. He's not a machine.
Sort of ITB - my husband imports a small amount of sake and I help out

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 26256
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida
Has thanked: 289 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#5 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Brian Tuite wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:42 am Shouldn’t this be in the critic’s bingo thread? [stirthepothal.gif]
Clearly Martin is multi-faceted in every dimension, a towering vertical force of nuance and pedigree.
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)


@lfert

User avatar
Dan Hammer
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 6145
Joined: June 3rd, 2009, 11:05 am
Location: flight Level 3 seven thousand. NYC Metro
Has thanked: 123 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#6 Post by Dan Hammer »

Mark Golodetz wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:38 am Parker used to write about Neil Young et al constantly
You admit in an online board that you're still reading Parker? neener
This space for rent.

User avatar
Jay Miller
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 16161
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 180 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#7 Post by Jay Miller »

Brian Tuite wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:42 am Shouldn’t this be in the critic’s bingo thread? [stirthepothal.gif]
Nah, definitely belongs in the curmudgeon thread.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8646
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 348 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#8 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Dan Hammer wrote: November 19th, 2020, 6:11 am
Mark Golodetz wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:38 am Parker used to write about Neil Young et al constantly
You admit in an online board that you're still reading Parker? neener
No, please note the words “used to”. I stopped reading the Advocate many moons ago. And I am pretty sure he doesn’t write for them any more.
ITB

Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8646
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 348 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#9 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Jay Miller wrote: November 19th, 2020, 6:20 am
Brian Tuite wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:42 am Shouldn’t this be in the critic’s bingo thread? [stirthepothal.gif]
Nah, definitely belongs in the curmudgeon thread.
Yup.
ITB

User avatar
rsmithjr
Posts: 563
Joined: December 8th, 2015, 11:25 am
Location: Troy, Mich & Naples, FL
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#10 Post by rsmithjr »

No mention of Dave Brubeck....?
Roger Smith- Longtime wine drinker and bon vivant' and unofficial De Negoce' FANBOY.....

User avatar
Mark Morrissette
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 536
Joined: January 27th, 2017, 7:26 am
Location: Falmouth, Maine
Has thanked: 135 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#11 Post by Mark Morrissette »

A lot of the Vinous articles are great, and super informative. But, I have found I rarely, if ever, read Neal's.

Honestly, he seems like a great guy, but his writing style (including many references to music that are far too obscure for my pedestrian tastes) is not for me. Many others seem to love his articles. So, to each his own, I guess... [cheers.gif]

User avatar
Markus S
Posts: 7685
Joined: May 20th, 2010, 7:27 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#12 Post by Markus S »

You don't like it, don't read it. There is an "ignore" feature for critics as well. [cheers.gif]
$ _ € ® e . k @

User avatar
Philip N. Jones
Posts: 548
Joined: December 4th, 2011, 5:56 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#13 Post by Philip N. Jones »

Proof, once again, that you can’t mention Parker without drawing the ire of the Parker Haters.

Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8646
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 348 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#14 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Markus S wrote: November 19th, 2020, 7:08 am You don't like it, don't read it. There is an "ignore" feature for critics as well. [cheers.gif]
It is embedded in the article. I want to read about 1959s, so have little choice but to read the other crap. But I would prefer if he didn’t include or separated it from his wine writing. I really don’t give a monkeys that he doesn’t like jazz.
ITB

User avatar
Julian Marshall
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1376
Joined: August 12th, 2011, 4:44 am
Location: Next to Auvers sur Oise, France
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 133 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#15 Post by Julian Marshall »

I like Neal Martin's writing, which I find refreshingly unpretentious and modest. He has always included musical references, it's part of his DNA and he has always done separate musical reviews for first TWA and now Vinous. Personally I like most of his musical taste anyway so I enjoy them. Most of the wine articles' titles are cryptic references to albums or songs and again, I enjoy that. Occasionally, the producer profiles also veer into musical references, like his one with Nicolas Glumineau which was all about The Cure - it was one of my favourites! But each to their own - even if the music bugs you, you can always just focus on the wine parts.

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3490
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY
Has thanked: 405 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#16 Post by Jayson Cohen »

I like Neal’s writing, on the random occasion I read it, but can you really trust anyone who doesn’t like jazz?

Sarah Kirschbaum
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4362
Joined: September 20th, 2010, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 458 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#17 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum »

Jayson Cohen wrote: November 19th, 2020, 7:38 am I like Neal’s writing, on the random occasion I read it, but can you really trust anyone who doesn’t like jazz?
Right? Or single malt scotch! :)
Sort of ITB - my husband imports a small amount of sake and I help out

User avatar
Robert Dentice
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 2783
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 11:40 am
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 152 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#18 Post by Robert Dentice »

Jayson Cohen wrote: November 19th, 2020, 7:38 am I like Neal’s writing, on the random occasion I read it, but can you really trust anyone who doesn’t like jazz?
I love his writing and that he is a music geek. BUT I was shocked when I read that!
https://sourcematerialwine.com

ITB - source | material

User avatar
Glenn L e v i n e
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 21462
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 6:16 pm
Location: Coos Bay, OR
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 87 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#19 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

People who don’t like jazz are just kind of shitty in bed too.
"Never lose sight of the fact that it is just fermented grape juice" - a winemaker and negotiant in Napa Valley, CA

User avatar
Jerry Hey
Posts: 1524
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 5:16 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#20 Post by Jerry Hey »

I read wine articles to find out more about wine. I even balk at most of my musician friends recommending music to me, so I'd rather not hear any thoughts on someone's musical opinions. Music may even be more of a personal preference than wine.

User avatar
Chris Seiber
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 10363
Joined: April 28th, 2010, 3:22 pm
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Has thanked: 314 times
Been thanked: 393 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#21 Post by Chris Seiber »

From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/1 ... o-anymore/

JBrochu
Posts: 336
Joined: September 17th, 2020, 7:34 am
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#22 Post by JBrochu »

Mark Golodetz wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:38 am Parker used to write about Neil Young et al constantly
That's the first nice thing I've ever read about Parker.
J@hn

ybarselah
Posts: 6767
Joined: July 15th, 2009, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#23 Post by ybarselah »

what's most odd is that the article itself is titled "The Year of Jazz & Wine: 1959." the reader should reasonably expect some tie between the two as opposed to the author undermining the title by turning into a non-sequitur about how he doesn't like jazz and then never mentioning it again.

i don't really care what writers write about and the "stay in your lane" idea is usually abhorrent, but ... if you're going to write about jazz and wine maybe.... write about jazz and wine?
Yaacov (ITB)

User avatar
Merrill Lindquist
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 11989
Joined: July 22nd, 2009, 6:58 pm
Location: Calistoga, Napa Valley, CA
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#24 Post by Merrill Lindquist »

Chris Seiber wrote: November 19th, 2020, 8:24 am From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/1 ... o-anymore/
Chris, would you please email me?
Merrill
EMH Vineyards - Home of the Black Cat
email:Merrill@EMHVineyards.com

User avatar
Jim Brennan
Posts: 5692
Joined: April 17th, 2009, 6:10 pm
Location: People's Republic of Illinois
Has thanked: 96 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#25 Post by Jim Brennan »

The idea that one can love music and dismiss all jazz as if it is monolithic seems like enough of a flaw that I agree with Mark's premise.

User avatar
Markus S
Posts: 7685
Joined: May 20th, 2010, 7:27 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#26 Post by Markus S »

Chris Seiber wrote: November 19th, 2020, 8:24 am From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/1 ... o-anymore/
So true. Jazz is definitely overrated.
$ _ € ® e . k @

Marcus Goodfellow
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 3003
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon
Has thanked: 480 times
Been thanked: 612 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#27 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Robert.A.Jr. wrote: November 19th, 2020, 6:04 am
Brian Tuite wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:42 am Shouldn’t this be in the critic’s bingo thread? [stirthepothal.gif]
Clearly Martin is multi-faceted in every dimension, a towering vertical force of nuance and pedigree.
Mmm...he’s no William Kelley ;)
Goodfellow Family Cellars
Winemaker & Owner

Erik Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 20
Joined: January 24th, 2017, 3:26 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#28 Post by Erik Miller »

*sigh*

I once made the mistake of questioning Mr. Martin's 'nuanced' discussions of wine - or not the wine, but 'stuff' surrounding... I am a customer, but in his case, clearly incorrect... Oh well

I could give a c#$p about his perspective on Jazz or other music, really. Write about wine and I will decide whether to bank on his thoughts. To date he has not moved me. Sad, as I think our palates align a bit. Just not my 'cup of tea'

I am unimpressed. Sad about his health issues, but he does not move $$ from my wallet as other reviewers do.

Marcus Goodfellow
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 3003
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon
Has thanked: 480 times
Been thanked: 612 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#29 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Jim Brennan wrote: November 19th, 2020, 9:15 am The idea that one can love music and dismiss all jazz as if it is monolithic seems like enough of a flaw that I agree with Mark's premise.
Stipulating that I do not have any warm and fuzzy feelings for Neil Martin, was that his premise?

Honestly, I kind of feel like he was generalizing himself rather than jazz(or golf or scotch).
Goodfellow Family Cellars
Winemaker & Owner

Dennis Borczon
Posts: 958
Joined: January 28th, 2011, 2:46 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#30 Post by Dennis Borczon »

Oh my, some folks really are pretty cranky these days! The quarantine must be getting to all of us. I think most publications in the Pop world do try to be entertaining, do they not? It's not like Neal is issuing a stock report on the latest IPO. (Maybe for some readers). Reminds me of sports fans who complain about player celebrations, "I just came here to watch football" crowd. It's entertainment, not an exercise in statistical analysis of wine. For that just read the tech sheets. It has everything you want to know about acidity, alcohol, etc...

john stimson
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3803
Joined: January 24th, 2010, 8:11 pm
Location: seattle
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#31 Post by john stimson »

If you view Neal as a wine critic, then I suppose your complaint makes sense, but he really is a wine/culture/music/food writer. I enjoy Neal's writing quite a bit, and don't mind that he writes about music, although when the music takes precedence over the wine in a wine article, I find it a little irritating.

I find that the fine points of wine appreciation/understanding and the fine points of music appreciation/understanding have a high degree of overlap. I'm not talking about people who "love" wine, and will drink and enjoy awful swill, or the folks who "love" music, and will crank up terrible, irritating junk. But there are clearly people who understand and appreciate wine at a higher level than most of the rest of the world, and there are clearly folks who have the true gift of music at a far higher level than the rest of the world. And I think these two sensual abilities often coincide (not to repeat repeat myself.)

I'm not certain yet where Neal lies, but I think it's fair to factor his musical tastes into assessing his sensual abilities in terms of calibrating his palate. I must say that his comments about scotch and Jazz gave me pause on both fronts. At the moment I'm still calibrating his palate, and doing the same with his musical sensibilities. Musically, he seems to favor eclectic/quirky (although this could be just that it is deemed to be more attention getting for the audience). Wine-wise, does he favor Bordeaux over Burgundy, or is this just the nature of his assigned coverage?

A Dotson
Posts: 384
Joined: November 9th, 2020, 11:44 am
Location: Chico, CA...land of culture and intellectualism.
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#32 Post by A Dotson »

Chris Seiber wrote: November 19th, 2020, 8:24 am From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/1 ... o-anymore/
Bose?!?!?!?

WTAF!

Two of those three things are just wrong. [head-bang.gif]

But, since Shiraz is the Bose of wine, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

_

By and by, the current jazz scene is overflowing with talent. Please tell the black players among them that the music they make is no longer for black people to enjoy. [swearing.gif]

[stirthepothal.gif]
(It's me, Anton! I'm Beta testing, 'cause I'm a master Beta!)

That which does not kill us, makes us older.

User avatar
John Ammons
Posts: 1489
Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 10:26 am
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#33 Post by John Ammons »

A Dotson wrote: November 19th, 2020, 12:44 pm Bose?!?!?!?

WTAF!
Brings to mind the infamous quote, "no highs, no lows, must be Bose." [whistle.gif]

User avatar
Chris Seiber
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 10363
Joined: April 28th, 2010, 3:22 pm
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Has thanked: 314 times
Been thanked: 393 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#34 Post by Chris Seiber »

A Dotson wrote: November 19th, 2020, 12:44 pm
Chris Seiber wrote: November 19th, 2020, 8:24 am From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/1 ... o-anymore/
Bose?!?!?!?

WTAF!

Two of those three things are just wrong. [head-bang.gif]

But, since Shiraz is the Bose of wine, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

_

By and by, the current jazz scene is overflowing with talent. Please tell the black players among them that the music they make is no longer for black people to enjoy. [swearing.gif]

[stirthepothal.gif]
I think the comment (which was just meant for laughs, not me trying to start an assault on jazz music) was about the audience, not the music or the musicians. Shiraz and Bose are also in there because that piece was written in 2008.

I know there is good jazz and there are people who genuinely love jazz, but you'd have to admit, there is a pretty widespread pose out there about jazz as well, people declaring their love for it as some kind of cultural and elite taste marker, but who probably don't actually turn off the TV and listen to it when nobody else is around.

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
Posts: 42747
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Has thanked: 216 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#35 Post by Neal.Mollen »

Chris Seiber wrote: November 19th, 2020, 8:24 am From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/1 ... o-anymore/
That is a truly impressive amount of bullshit in a very few sentences.

I like Neal's writing about wine, and I like his writing about pop music. I'd rather not see him combine the two ("this is the Nine Inch Nails of Lagrein") but I am sure that John will alert me if he does.

My personal view is that jazz is this country's greatest artistic contribution to the world. It pains me that it is not more broadly recognized as such
Last edited by Neal.Mollen on November 19th, 2020, 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

A Dotson
Posts: 384
Joined: November 9th, 2020, 11:44 am
Location: Chico, CA...land of culture and intellectualism.
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#36 Post by A Dotson »

Chris Seiber wrote: November 19th, 2020, 1:55 pm
A Dotson wrote: November 19th, 2020, 12:44 pm
Chris Seiber wrote: November 19th, 2020, 8:24 am From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/1 ... o-anymore/
Bose?!?!?!?

WTAF!

Two of those three things are just wrong. [head-bang.gif]

But, since Shiraz is the Bose of wine, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

_

By and by, the current jazz scene is overflowing with talent. Please tell the black players among them that the music they make is no longer for black people to enjoy. [swearing.gif]

[stirthepothal.gif]
I think the comment (which was just meant for laughs, not me trying to start an assault on jazz music) was about the audience, not the music or the musicians. Shiraz and Bose are also in there because that piece was written in 2008.

I know there is good jazz and there are people who genuinely love jazz, but you'd have to admit, there is a pretty widespread pose out there about jazz as well, people declaring their love for it as some kind of cultural and elite taste marker, but who probably don't actually turn off the TV and listen to it when nobody else is around.
I meant my reply only in jest. (100% goofing off, no ill intent.)

I am unaware of the widespread fake love of jazz. Although, I have met a few here and there. I ask them who they like and when they say, "Spyro Gyra, Return to Forever, Flim and the BBs, John Klemmer, Tuck & Patty, Mannheim Steamroller, Chuck Mangione, Manhattan Transfer, or that infernal Kenny G," I stop them right then and there and offer them a big glass of Shiraz.
Click to see spoiler:
More apologies, one of those answers is a trap.
(It's me, Anton! I'm Beta testing, 'cause I'm a master Beta!)

That which does not kill us, makes us older.

A Dotson
Posts: 384
Joined: November 9th, 2020, 11:44 am
Location: Chico, CA...land of culture and intellectualism.
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#37 Post by A Dotson »

Neal.Mollen wrote: November 19th, 2020, 2:01 pm
...."this is the Nine Inch Nails of Lagrein"....



[rofl.gif]

This is the Sheen Easton of Shiraz.

This wine is the "MacArthur Park" of Merlot.

I love this idea....

This wine is the Joel Grey of Cabernet.
(It's me, Anton! I'm Beta testing, 'cause I'm a master Beta!)

That which does not kill us, makes us older.

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 22403
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD
Has thanked: 492 times
Been thanked: 295 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#38 Post by Howard Cooper »

Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

A Dotson
Posts: 384
Joined: November 9th, 2020, 11:44 am
Location: Chico, CA...land of culture and intellectualism.
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#39 Post by A Dotson »

Howard Cooper wrote: November 19th, 2020, 2:26 pm
Track one, side two is a total Howard moment! champagne.gif

[wink.gif]
(It's me, Anton! I'm Beta testing, 'cause I'm a master Beta!)

That which does not kill us, makes us older.

Bob Hughes
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 7349
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 1:35 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#40 Post by Bob Hughes »

I’m an old white guy who likes jazz and wine - plus the Grateful Dead [cheers.gif]

I obviously didn’t take the same degree of umbrage that Mark did when I read Neal’s comments about jazz, but I did think WTF?

BTW, Anton, while I will concede that I don’t listen to jazz fusion all that much anymore, putting RTF in the same sentence with Kenny G is a pretty serious disservice to Chick Corea, not to mention Stanley Clarke, Lenny White & Al DiMeola.

A Dotson
Posts: 384
Joined: November 9th, 2020, 11:44 am
Location: Chico, CA...land of culture and intellectualism.
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#41 Post by A Dotson »

Bob Hughes wrote: November 19th, 2020, 2:34 pm I’m an old white guy who likes jazz and wine - plus the Grateful Dead [cheers.gif]

I obviously didn’t take the same degree of umbrage that Mark did when I read Neal’s comments about jazz, but I did think WTF?

BTW, Anton, while I will concede that I don’t listen to jazz fusion all that much anymore, putting RTF in the same sentence with Kenny G is a pretty serious disservice to Chick Corea, not to mention Stanley Clarke, Lenny White & Al DiMeola.
You are good! Check my spoiler, you nailed it!!! [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif] [cheers.gif]

Cheers, man, I agree.
(It's me, Anton! I'm Beta testing, 'cause I'm a master Beta!)

That which does not kill us, makes us older.

Marcus Goodfellow
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 3003
Joined: January 5th, 2011, 9:28 pm
Location: McMinnville, Oregon
Has thanked: 480 times
Been thanked: 612 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#42 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Dennis Borczon wrote: November 19th, 2020, 10:18 am Oh my, some folks really are pretty cranky these days! The quarantine must be getting to all of us. I think most publications in the Pop world do try to be entertaining, do they not? It's not like Neal is issuing a stock report on the latest IPO. (Maybe for some readers). Reminds me of sports fans who complain about player celebrations, "I just came here to watch football" crowd. It's entertainment, not an exercise in statistical analysis of wine. For that just read the tech sheets. It has everything you want to know about acidity, alcohol, etc...
Ah...not to be cranky Dennis, but for some of us Mr. Martin’s issuances are very much as important as stock reports, if not exactly like them.

He and all other impactful critics are issuing a buy/sell for the production of wines by people like me. While their opinions do not define my succes, they do impact my fiscal well being materially. Fortunately, more often than not the impact is good.
Goodfellow Family Cellars
Winemaker & Owner

User avatar
Matthew King
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1607
Joined: January 31st, 2015, 6:58 pm
Location: Santa Monica
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#43 Post by Matthew King »

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote: November 19th, 2020, 6:01 am I have no problem with his talking about music. I like having a little more fleshed out picture of him as a person. I think it enhances his writing about wine. He posts food pictures on FB sometimes and chats about that, too. I find people talking about what they are interested in to be interesting. I don't think he has any responsibility to limit himself to wine talk. He's not a machine.
What she said.
"When life looks like Easy Street, there’s danger at your door.”

User avatar
Robert M yers
Posts: 3764
Joined: March 10th, 2010, 8:24 pm
Location: Cleveland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#44 Post by Robert M yers »

I just read through all the replies to see if GOD had chimed in. I didn’t know she/he registered and if she /he does will Todd enforce the last name policy?

User avatar
Jeremy Holmes
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 7692
Joined: April 28th, 2010, 3:50 pm
Been thanked: 178 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#45 Post by Jeremy Holmes »

I wish they wouldn't burden us with their wine preferences.
ITB

User avatar
alan weinberg
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 14626
Joined: April 25th, 2009, 1:23 pm
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 316 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#46 Post by alan weinberg »

Bob Hughes wrote: November 19th, 2020, 2:34 pm I’m an old white guy who likes jazz and wine - plus the Grateful Dead [cheers.gif]
this old guy only listens to blues, mostly by dead guys . . . goes well with burgundy, weightlifting, driving. Don’t read many wine critics any more, just a few peeps on this board. Now back to Lightnin’ Hopkins.

Odd Rydland
Posts: 595
Joined: April 28th, 2010, 12:46 pm
Location: Bergen, Norway
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#47 Post by Odd Rydland »

Philip N. Jones wrote: November 19th, 2020, 7:08 am Proof, once again, that you can’t mention Parker without drawing the ire of the Parker Haters.
What Parker?
Charlie Parker?

User avatar
William Kelley
Posts: 3298
Joined: June 4th, 2014, 1:36 am
Location: Beaune, France & San Antonio, Texas
Has thanked: 330 times
Been thanked: 728 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#48 Post by William Kelley »

Jeremy Holmes wrote: November 19th, 2020, 4:46 pm I wish they wouldn't burden us with their wine preferences.
[rofl.gif]
The Wine Advocate

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 26256
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida
Has thanked: 289 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#49 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

Mark Golodetz wrote: November 19th, 2020, 6:26 am
Jay Miller wrote: November 19th, 2020, 6:20 am
Brian Tuite wrote: November 19th, 2020, 5:42 am Shouldn’t this be in the critic’s bingo thread? [stirthepothal.gif]
Nah, definitely belongs in the curmudgeon thread.
Yup.
Cracking up on these, definitely the most of the first world problems threads recently! And yea, jazz bores me. Now if the note was composed to Lil Wayne or Kendrick Lamar, then we good.

[wow.gif]
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)


@lfert

Max S.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1129
Joined: March 16th, 2020, 3:01 pm
Location: Denver
Has thanked: 362 times
Been thanked: 113 times

Re: God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

#50 Post by Max S. »

Jeremy Holmes wrote: November 19th, 2020, 4:46 pm I wish they wouldn't burden us with their wine preferences.
My greatest fear is this post will be lost to the masses.
"And just to be clear, this is a post criticizing people who criticize people who criticize for a living . . ." - J Bloom

5 w 0 m l 3 y

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”