My Confession. Not allowing time to open.

[jordan jacobs]

Argh! I feel like I need to get something off my chest. Come clean if you will. I can’t tell you how many times I have consumed, passed judgment and opined on wines, both young and old, before they have had a chance to prosperity open up.

I haven’t a clue as to why. I am relatively intelligent ( at least in my own mind), have experience drinking wine for a couple decades and yet still make this mistake. Even thought, I know better.

What side are you on. Over or under? Am I alone?

[Mike Evans]

Most of the red wines I open are 10 years from the vintage or older and almost all of them are double decanted because I refuse to stick someone with a glass of sediment. I can’t recall a bottle that wasn’t much better when I’ve poured it anywhere from one to five hours later than it was when I first opened it. This holds as true for bottles that are 30 years old as those that are 10 years old and for every region and variety.

[Jeff D a v i e s]

I agree. air seems to always help. I had a 1983 Pichon Lalande and a 2001 Y'quem this week. Both showed remarkable improvement after several hours

[Robert.A.Jr.]

I bet 99% of us here are guilty of this from time to time, I know I am!

[maureen nelson]

I bet 99% of us here are guilty of this from time to time, I know I am!

Not me. I always decant. Everything.

[D@vid Bu3ker]

I do not generally decant, but I do tend to consume wines over two nights, so if it doesn’t show on night one it gets a second chance.

[Nick Christie]

I bet 99% of us here are guilty of this from time to time, I know I am!

Not me. I always decant. Everything.

Thoughtful, Pleasure Delay is Pleasure Achieved... Take your time. You can always open up something else instead while you wait for the first wine to really blossom . Nobody will have 100% track record, but approach each bottle like the two of you have allllllll the time in the world.

[lleichtman]

Argh! I feel like I need to get something off my chest. Come clean if you will. I can’t tell you how many times I have consumed, passed judgment and opined on wines, both young and old, before they have had a chance to prosperity open up.

I haven’t a clue as to why. I am relatively intelligent ( at least in my own mind), have experience drinking wine for a couple decades and yet still make this mistake. Even thought, I know better.

What side are you on. Over or under? Am I alone?

It all depends on how thirsty I am. Waiting is not my strong suit.

[jordan jacobs]

I bet 99% of us here are guilty of this from time to time, I know I am!

Not me. I always decant. Everything.

I typically decant. I often give it time. I just more often that not, finish the last glass thinking I should have started at that point vs finishing.

[Rodrigo B]

This really is a struggle. Lately, I’ve been trying to be more disciplined with planning my drinking decisions ahead of time to allow plenty of time for decanting if needed. Especially if I’m entertaining.

However sometimes you just pop something open, and while your palate may indicate that the wine will benefit from some time decanting, it’s just drinking well at the moment and your guests are eager to drink wine. Hard to open a bottle in front of people and tell them they’ve got to wait for a bit.

[Marcus Goodfellow]

I bet 99% of us here are guilty of this from time to time, I know I am!

Not me. I always decant. Everything.

I typically decant. I often give it time. I just more often that not, finish the last glass thinking I should have started at that point vs finishing.

I have done this a lot as well.

Weirdly, the best solution I have stumbled onto is opening 2-4 bottles at a time, and then drinking a portion of each of them over 2-3 nights(not by myself). It lets me compare and contrast wines, or just focus on a favorite if one bottle is really lights out.

But mostly, the result is getting to see the wines tight, and then through a spectrum. And the percentage that show over the hill on day 2 or 3 is almost non-existent. Tonight a 2012 and two 2010s on day 3 are showing at peak or close to it. All three are much better than on the first night.

[Sh@n A]

I try a lot of young wines and do not give them the benefit of the overnight treatment. I have been converted to the cause, however...

[Rodrigo B]

I have done this a lot as well.

Weirdly, the best solution I have stumbled onto is opening 2-4 bottles at a time, and then drinking a portion of each of them over 2-3 nights(not by myself). It lets me compare and contrast wines, or just focus on a favorite if one bottle is really lights out.

But mostly, the result is getting to see the wines tight, and then through a spectrum. And the percentage that show over the hill on day 2 or 3 is almost non-existent. Tonight a 2012 and two 2010s on day 3 are showing at peak or close to it. All three are much better than on the first night.

Lately I’ve started opening multiple bottles at the same time as well. At the very least, comparing and contrasting between the wines is an extremely helpful exercise in tasing. However one of the problems that happens all too often is trying to determine if a wine will truly benefit from 2-3 days of decanting/opening vis-a-vis just decanting it for a few hours. CT sometimes helps, but not always. In the same vein, planning wine consumption multiple days in advance does take away some of the enjoyment from the spontaneity of drinking a wine when the mood strikes. Tough balance to strike.

[jordan jacobs]

Not me. I always decant. Everything.

I typically decant. I often give it time. I just more often that not, finish the last glass thinking I should have started at that point vs finishing.

I have done this a lot as well.

Weirdly, the best solution I have stumbled onto is opening 2-4 bottles at a time, and then drinking a portion of each of them over 2-3 nights(not by myself). It lets me compare and contrast wines, or just focus on a favorite if one bottle is really lights out.

But mostly, the result is getting to see the wines tight, and then through a spectrum. And the percentage that show over the hill on day 2 or 3 is almost non-existent. Tonight a 2012 and two 2010s on day 3 are showing at peak or close to it. All three are much better than on the first night.

That is a really good idea and that is my new approach.

[JBrochu]

I typically decant. I often give it time. I just more often that not, finish the last glass thinking I should have started at that point vs finishing.

I have done this a lot as well.

Weirdly, the best solution I have stumbled onto is opening 2-4 bottles at a time, and then drinking a portion of each of them over 2-3 nights(not by myself). It lets me compare and contrast wines, or just focus on a favorite if one bottle is really lights out.

But mostly, the result is getting to see the wines tight, and then through a spectrum. And the percentage that show over the hill on day 2 or 3 is almost non-existent. Tonight a 2012 and two 2010s on day 3 are showing at peak or close to it. All three are much better than on the first night.

That is a really good idea and that is my new approach.

Sounds like a good plan. Except for the part about not drinking them all myself.

[Andrew K.]

I am also guilty as charged. But doesn't that really mean we are drinking the wines too young? I've never had this issue with a 60 year old BDX.

[c fu]

I am also guilty as charged. But doesn't that really mean we are drinking the wines too young? I've never had this issue with a 60 year old BDX.

No not at all - old wine needs time to breath too. I always give the analogy of Grandpa Joe in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory needing time staying in that bed forever and he needed time to spring back to action.

I've had plenty of great old bottles that needed 2-3 hours of air to really explode. Just had a 53 LMHB two weeks ago that was pretty eh (cork popped - not double decanted for 2 hours then drank over 4 hours) until the last 30 minutes of the night. Generally written off until we got to the end and we were all stunned how long it took to shape into form.

[Andrew K.]

I am also guilty as charged. But doesn't that really mean we are drinking the wines too young? I've never had this issue with a 60 year old BDX.

No not at all - old wine needs time to breath too. I always give the analogy of Grandpa Joe in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory needing time staying in that bed forever and he needed time to spring back to action.

I've had plenty of great old bottles that needed 2-3 hours of air to really explode. Just had a 53 LMHB two weeks ago that was pretty eh (cork popped - not double decanted for 2 hours then drank over 4 hours) until the last 30 minutes of the night. Generally written off until we got to the end and we were all stunned how long it took to shape into form.

Agree. I was talking about 2-3 nights.

[John O']

Not me. I always decant. Everything.

I typically decant. I often give it time. I just more often that not, finish the last glass thinking I should have started at that point vs finishing.

I have done this a lot as well.

Weirdly, the best solution I have stumbled onto is opening 2-4 bottles at a time, and then drinking a portion of each of them over 2-3 nights(not by myself). It lets me compare and contrast wines, or just focus on a favorite if one bottle is really lights out.

But mostly, the result is getting to see the wines tight, and then through a spectrum. And the percentage that show over the hill on day 2 or 3 is almost non-existent. Tonight a 2012 and two 2010s on day 3 are showing at peak or close to it. All three are much better than on the first night.

Very helpful thread. Can you be more specific? When you open multiple bottles, do you decant them? For how long? How do you store overnight? thx in advance.

[Sarah Kirschbaum]

When I'm home alone for a week, I will often do what Marcus describes, because I like to have access to a white and a red, and even I won't finish two bottles myself in a night.

When I'm drinking with Jonathan, which is most of the time, and we open just one bottle, the bottle rarely lasts much past the end of dinner and clean up. I tend to decant on average 30 to 60 minutes before we start eating, give or take, depending on what I know about the wine and how it showed the last time.

Sometimes the two of us will open 2-3 bottles of young(ish) white, usually Riesling, to check in on with dinner. Sometimes we finish them both, sometimes the tail end of one or both bottles goes in the fridge overnight. I'm in the camp of almost never thinking red wines are better on day 2 - some aspects may be more open, but they also almost always taste more flat and a little stale to me - so generally finish those on day 1.

Sometimes we think we should have given a wine more air, and experience that last-sip-was-best thing, but that just goes into the private note section on CT and I adjust my decant time on the next bottle. So to me, that first bottle wasn't in any way a mistake, it was part of the (for me) delightful process of learning about a wine. The joy in this process is one of the reasons we almost always buy multiple bottles of anything we like. It's so much more relaxed - to me, it was never the wrong time to open a wine, so long as it was delicious. I don't have to stress or get anxious about it being the "right" time.

[Paul @bbott]

There was a recent thread on wines that taste better the next day. My approach varies with my expectations. I will drink a young syrah over 2 days, but with a 10 year old Bordeaux would try and decant a couple of hours before dinner and still the last glass is often the best.

[markjchambers]

For me it is just poor planning. Ideally, we would make a decision about what we were having for dinner in the morning and I would pull a bottle and open it right then. In reality, I am often scrambling to find a bottle when dinner is almost ready. Before the pandemic, we often took wine to restaurants and the choice was often last minute. Lack of planning meant we drank our wine almost immediately after it was opened and consume most of it in the first hour. Not many wines show their best under those circumstances.

[Claus Jeppesen]

I bet 99% of us here are guilty of this from time to time, I know I am!

Not me. I always decant. Everything.

Seldom decant but always try the wine next day too. And maybe also 3rd day

[Marcus Goodfellow]

I typically decant. I often give it time. I just more often that not, finish the last glass thinking I should have started at that point vs finishing.

I have done this a lot as well.

Weirdly, the best solution I have stumbled onto is opening 2-4 bottles at a time, and then drinking a portion of each of them over 2-3 nights(not by myself). It lets me compare and contrast wines, or just focus on a favorite if one bottle is really lights out.

But mostly, the result is getting to see the wines tight, and then through a spectrum. And the percentage that show over the hill on day 2 or 3 is almost non-existent. Tonight a 2012 and two 2010s on day 3 are showing at peak or close to it. All three are much better than on the first night.

Very helpful thread. Can you be more specific? When you open multiple bottles, do you decant them? For how long? How do you store overnight? thx in advance.

When we have multiple bottles open, we generally do not decant. There’s no attempt at any specific overnight storage, other than making sure the bottles have corks in them.

It’s often a mix of white and red, but not always. And sometimes it’s definitely a theme.

I feel differently than Sarah, in that a lot of the red wines we open seem to be better the following nights. Not always though, but either way we sampled them through the range and can adjust with specific wines when we open them again in the future.

Also-we drink mostly traditional producers, often utilizing stems in the winemaking(not always though). And almost exclusively from cooler regions in Europe, along with the Willamette Valley. So, I feel, our cellar is skewed to wines that want more air rather than less(and I very much agree with Charlie Fu’s Grandpa Joe analogy). Not trying to be self righteous with this, just saying that if I drank CdP or Napa, I might do it differently but I don’t know.

I also really like this process for exploring producers that are new to me. I can open younger wines and get a better feel for whether I want to add them to my cellar in a bigger way without having to hold a few bottles for 10 years and then start collecting.

[larry schaffer]

I do find this a challenge in general. I oftentimes will try a wine after opening and 'judge' it pretty quickly, only to find that the wine transforms over time. It's what makes large tastings with multiple bottles really challenging - like Falltacular, for instance.

And I'm faced with this every day in my tasting room - I tell folks that it is like a first date or first impression - and we all know how wrong we can be there!

Cheers.

[Greg K]

I'm generally a believer in decanting almost everything. Sometimes that doesn't work out (wines can also shut down with air), though usually it does. But then sometimes people come over to your roof and you decide to pop and pour a 16 Barolo. It goes both ways. I don't think it's something that warrants a confession!

[Cris Whetstone]

Since I split wines over two nights I never decant unless there is some real problem with excessive sediment. Bottles that will be drank the same evening see more aggressive choices in terms of decanting.

[Carlos Delpin]

Isn’t this what cocktails are for? A pre dinner drink lubricates the appetite and the conversation and provides time for the wine to breathe!

[Robert.A.Jr.]

Isn’t this what cocktails are for? A pre dinner drink lubricates the appetite and the conversation and provides time for the wine to breathe!

That’s actually brilliant.

[Kevin Porter]

I have wondered whether “last glass best” speaks more to my condition at that point than that of the wine.

[R. Frankel]

I try to decant an hour or two in advance when I can, especially if I think there will be sediment. Some middle aged wines (e.g. Barolo or Bordeaux in the 10-20 year old range) need a bit more and I’ll try to decant those 4-6 hours ahead.

Covid has destroyed my restaurant visits but they’ll come around again. But the question remains - how to handle decanting/breathing time at restaurants? If I’m just bringing one bottle to a non-wine focused dinner I’m hesitant to double decant in advance. I’ve had restaurants complain about bottles opened before arriving.

I’ve tried double decanting in advance, then re-corking so it looks unopened. But then I have to insist on “opening” it. Possibly awkward.

Another more typical option is to ask to have a bottle opened and decanted immediately upon arrival. Then have a BTG or cocktail and hold the wine back for the main courses. This requires a slower paced meal and often doesn’t give much decant time. I’ve also found some bottles unopened even after an hour, unnoticed because I was distracted by ordering or good conversation with friends.

Minor issues all. I’d love to return to restaurants and restaurant social life, would happily accept my occasionally imperfectly decanted bottles.

[Lonnie F.]

I typically decant. I often give it time. I just more often that not, finish the last glass thinking I should have started at that point vs finishing.

This

[R Scott Hughes]

I have wondered whether “last glass best” speaks more to my condition at that point than that of the wine.

This is something I have been pondering for many years. Is it just the wine that is 'decanting', or does my consumption increase my enjoyment/appreciation of the wine?

[Karl F]

A couple months ago at a small wine gathering for 3 of us....I brought a 2012 Croix De Beaucaillou.

I wrapped it in a brown bag to make it a guess.
Opened and left in a rubber cork.
My wine expert friend.....(Jeff Vaughn here knows Eric)
Tasted before it had opened and thought italian.

In the decanter.... it opened an hour later.

The aroma and taste was superb once it opened.

It easily was way better than a 2015 Reserve de comtesse (2nd wine of Pinchon Lalande)
That one needs more time even being a 2nd wine.
But the Croix 12 was so much better i traded the 4 bottles I had of that Reserve back to TW for two Chappellet Signatures and two 16 Barnett cab's.
Spring mountain district. + 13$ each (Now that wine Rocks!)

Soooo.....last night I had to try a La Croix Ducru-Beaucaillou 2018. I've been accumulating bottles and have 4.
Opened and gave a full 2 hour decant.
I think it could have used 5 hrs or more.
But Jeff Leve gave it a 93 and I can see why.
It needs a few more years....but was still excellent.

I'm guilty too.
I need to be more dillegent about decanting.

[lleichtman]

This really is a struggle. Lately, I’ve been trying to be more disciplined with planning my drinking decisions ahead of time to allow plenty of time for decanting if needed. Especially if I’m entertaining.

However sometimes you just pop something open, and while your palate may indicate that the wine will benefit from some time decanting, it’s just drinking well at the moment and your guests are eager to drink wine. Hard to open a bottle in front of people and tell them they’ve got to wait for a bit.

I treat wine as a golf. Look where I want it ti go, prepare for the shot and make a slow deliberate swing, Never open till you're ready.Helps with putting too.

[Drew Goin]

I do not generally decant, but I do tend to consume wines over two nights, so if it doesn’t show on night one it gets a second chance.

I also do not decant my wines these days. I used to be a religious "decanter".

I am more pleased with trying a glass on night one, re-corking the bottle, and then tasting the remaining wine over the next 2-3 days. Each bottle I have tried via this method has revealed the various "faces" of a wine. Some bottles have performed best on night #3 or #4, but almost none have on the first evening.

[Robert.A.Jr.]

This really is a struggle. Lately, I’ve been trying to be more disciplined with planning my drinking decisions ahead of time to allow plenty of time for decanting if needed. Especially if I’m entertaining.

However sometimes you just pop something open, and while your palate may indicate that the wine will benefit from some time decanting, it’s just drinking well at the moment and your guests are eager to drink wine. Hard to open a bottle in front of people and tell them they’ve got to wait for a bit.

I treat wine as a golf. Look where I want it ti go, prepare for the shot and make a slow deliberate swing, Never open till you're ready.Helps with putting too.

You are thinking too much! Exhale on the swing?

[Will Clements]

This really is a struggle. Lately, I’ve been trying to be more disciplined with planning my drinking decisions ahead of time to allow plenty of time for decanting if needed. Especially if I’m entertaining.

However sometimes you just pop something open, and while your palate may indicate that the wine will benefit from some time decanting, it’s just drinking well at the moment and your guests are eager to drink wine. Hard to open a bottle in front of people and tell them they’ve got to wait for a bit.

I treat wine as a golf. Look where I want it ti go, prepare for the shot and make a slow deliberate swing, Never open till you're ready.Helps with putting too.

You are thinking too much! Exhale on the swing?

Eh. Grip it and rip it

Yes I suck at golf

[Rodrigo B]

I treat wine as a golf. Look where I want it ti go, prepare for the shot and make a slow deliberate swing, Never open till you're ready.Helps with putting too.

You are thinking too much! Exhale on the swing?

Eh. Grip it and rip it

Yes I suck at golf

My approach: recklessly take a whack at it and hope that it veers off in a good direction

[Joe Chanley]

very guilty of this, and it has to do with planning. for as much time as i spend researching, reading and thinking about wine, I'm often grabbing a bottle with too short of a window to give it proper air and then consume it too rapidly.

[Robert Pollard-Smith]

I do not generally decant, but I do tend to consume wines over two nights, so if it doesn’t show on night one it gets a second chance.

I also do not decant my wines these days. I used to be a religious "decanter".

I am more pleased with trying a glass on night one, re-corking the bottle, and then tasting the remaining wine over the next 2-3 days. Each bottle I have tried via this method has revealed the various "faces" of a wine. Some bottles have performed best on night #3 or #4, but almost none have on the first evening.

I am in the second to seventh night camp, also. As my wife does not drink, I get to enjoy 6-ish oz pours over time, and very rarely does any wine not flesh out by the second glass (could be the next night or several days later), and evolve more or stay at a plateau for a week, using Vacuvin or Coravin, and refrigerated.

[Rich K0rz€nk0]

Also guilty of the crime here and there. I mix it up with decanting. Sometimes it is a religious experience, carefully poured to eliminate sediment or double decanted. Other times its the bottle left open for a bit, first glass poured ans also airing, sometimes not. And I try to at least leave a glass for a day two. I vary it by mood and bottle. I don't put a lot of planning in to what I open, more a gut feel and whim. Holidays and special occasions being the exception. That affects the time I have to decant. The attempts at day 2 offer some relief.

[Jon H]

I also fall in the camp of not giving wine enough time to breath, but am learning to open bottles sooner. I’ve also never been one to save a bottle overnight because I’ve had a misconception that the wine starts to go bad by the 2nd/3rd night.

Question for those of you who enjoy your wine over multiple nights. How do you you store it overnight? Put it in the refrigerator? Back in the cellar? Leave it on a counter? Do you put a cork back? Would you ever leave it in a decanter overnight? I presume each scenario produces vastly different results.

[John H.]

This is something I constantly wrestle with. I drink mostly Willamette Valley wines, and there are very few that don't benefit from a looooong decant, for my tastes.

But it does depend somewhat on vintage, in my experience. For instance, the 2016 WV pinots drink fantastically right out of the bottle IMO and tend to shut down a bit with lots of air - the fruit fades and the structure comes to the fore, almost like some sort of dumb phase. But it's really convenient to have some bottles I can enjoy a lot as a pop-and-pour. I have really enjoyed some 2018s right off the bat as well.

Conversely, I find the 2017s to be super structured and tight upon opening and have punched myself on multiple occasions for drinking most of a bottle on night 1 - even with several hours of air - when a sip from a glass left out overnight (for scientific purposes) reveals a completely different, aromatically stunning wine.

Whites benefit less uniformly from decanting IME. Some open up quickly enough that it's a fun journey to experience with each glass, while others take 24 hours of air to go from meh to wow (looking at you, Eyrie).

[Michael_D]

Argh! I feel like I need to get something off my chest. Come clean if you will. I can’t tell you how many times I have consumed, passed judgment and opined on wines, both young and old, before they have had a chance to prosperity open up.

I haven’t a clue as to why. I am relatively intelligent ( at least in my own mind), have experience drinking wine for a couple decades and yet still make this mistake. Even thought, I know better.

What side are you on. Over or under? Am I alone?

You're not alone. If I am opening something special, and I've actually planned for it - I'll decant. Otherwise, I don't loose sleep over not decanting. Some folks take wine drinking way too seriously (as demonstrated by some of the comments you've gotten).

Have you ever tried one of the magic air sucking devises that pull air into the stream while pouring? They do actually make a difference and work to some extent. Sounds weird as hell, but not too barbaric.. https://vinturi.com

[Cris Whetstone]

I also fall in the camp of not giving wine enough time to breath, but am learning to open bottles sooner. I’ve also never been one to save a bottle overnight because I’ve had a misconception that the wine starts to go bad by the 2nd/3rd night.

Question for those of you who enjoy your wine over multiple nights. How do you you store it overnight? Put it in the refrigerator? Back in the cellar? Leave it on a counter? Do you put a cork back? Would you ever leave it in a decanter overnight? I presume each scenario produces vastly different results.

I used to put the cork in for reds and put it in the fridge before I had a wine fridge at home. Or out on the counter or garage corked if it were the cooler months. Whites and sparkling in the fridge of course. Now that I have a wine fridge I stand up my reds in there with the cork in them. For wines that are showing enough maturity where I'm concerned they may fall off over night I use a Repour to top them.

I wouldn't leave something out in a decanter over night without putting something over the top. Just to prevent some bug or whatever getting in there. And I would only do that for very young, big fruited wines or those with plenty of sugar.