2016 Barolo Notes (added Vajra Barolo Ravera & Coste di Rose)

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#51 Post by ChrisJames »

John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:48 am I think she dialed back on the oak somewhat in the early 2000s. I visited in 2005 and she said something about how "we had to go to extremes" to make a point, in the 90s, I assumed.

I'm generally quite averse to oak on nebbiolo, but her 01 Cannubi was very balanced in its early years.

Via Nuova isn't a top site, which might be another factor here.
What point do you think she was trying to make? I met her around 2003 and recall her saying "People are tired of buying brown Barolo." This seemed to be a pretty clear knock at traditional vinification methods. I had to chuckle to myself at that because I had a cellar full of "brown Barolo," and she is a daughter of the very traditional Giacomo Borgogno family (and neighbor to B. Mascarello).

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#52 Post by Greg K »

John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:48 am I think she dialed back on the oak somewhat in the early 2000s. I visited in 2005 and she said something about how "we had to go to extremes" to make a point, in the 90s, I assumed.

I'm generally quite averse to oak on nebbiolo, but her 01 Cannubi was very balanced in its early years.

Via Nuova isn't a top site, which might be another factor here.
I think there are a number of estates that dialed back a bit in 2001 - I've liked a few of Scavino's 01s despite not generally being a big fan.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#53 Post by John Morris »

ChrisJames wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:57 am
John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:48 am I think she dialed back on the oak somewhat in the early 2000s. I visited in 2005 and she said something about how "we had to go to extremes" to make a point, in the 90s, I assumed.

I'm generally quite averse to oak on nebbiolo, but her 01 Cannubi was very balanced in its early years.

Via Nuova isn't a top site, which might be another factor here.
What point do you think she was trying to make? I met her around 2003 and recall her saying "People are tired of buying brown Barolo." This seemed to be a pretty clear knock at traditional vinification methods. I had to chuckle to myself at that because I had a cellar full of "brown Barolo," and she is a daughter of the very traditional Giacomo Borgogno family (and neighbor to B. Mascarello).
I assume if you were buying old Barolo that far back, then you know of the history of the rebellion of the younger generation in the 80s, use of barriques, etc. It always seemed like it was a mix of (familiar) youthful rebellion against tradition and a genuine desire to make better wines. Whether new oak and roto-fermenters were improvements is open to question, obviously.

As I recall, I asked her about the modern techniques and she responded with that line. I construed her statement to mean that they had to get the older generation's attention and make people reexamine their techniques and habits. But I didn't ask her to elaborate. I remember sensing that she didn't want to go into that.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#54 Post by C. Keller »

Going to have to get myself a copy of this book. Far too many mentions to be ignored anymore
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#55 Post by ChrisJames »

John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 11:57 am
ChrisJames wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:57 am
John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:48 am I think she dialed back on the oak somewhat in the early 2000s. I visited in 2005 and she said something about how "we had to go to extremes" to make a point, in the 90s, I assumed.

I'm generally quite averse to oak on nebbiolo, but her 01 Cannubi was very balanced in its early years.

Via Nuova isn't a top site, which might be another factor here.
What point do you think she was trying to make? I met her around 2003 and recall her saying "People are tired of buying brown Barolo." This seemed to be a pretty clear knock at traditional vinification methods. I had to chuckle to myself at that because I had a cellar full of "brown Barolo," and she is a daughter of the very traditional Giacomo Borgogno family (and neighbor to B. Mascarello).
I assume if you were buying old Barolo that far back, then you know of the history of the rebellion of the younger generation in the 80s, use of barriques, etc. It always seemed like it was a mix of (familiar) youthful rebellion against tradition and a genuine desire to make better wines. Whether new oak and roto-fermenters were improvements is open to question, obviously.

As I recall, I asked her about the modern techniques and she responded with that line. I construed her statement to mean that they had to get the older generation's attention and make people reexamine their techniques and habits. But I didn't ask her to elaborate. I remember sensing that she didn't want to go into that.
Right. Ironically, many of the traditional giants of the 80s (both Mascarellos, both Rinaldis, Giacosa, Produttori, Cappellano, G. Conterno, Burlotto, Brovia, Prunotto [Beppe Colla pre-Antinori] and many others) continued along mostly unchanged and are now some of the most coveted wines. Meanwhile, more and more modernists are reverting to traditional methods. At least that pendulum has swung back. It was pretty sad to see some of the older houses jump on the modernista bandwagon. And E. Pira used to be a quality traditional producer until the owner's death and property sale to Borgogno (who passed it to Chiara Boschis).

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#56 Post by John Morris »

Yup.

There was a very good academic article maybe 10 years ago, tracking the history and the personal dynamics. I was just checking, but I can't seem to find a copy in my own docs. I know I posted on it, but I'm not sure how to pull it up. It was quite fascinating, with many layers or explanation.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#57 Post by Andrew A r n t f i e l d »

O’Keefe gives a nice, concise summary of the modernist movement in her book. She also discusses barriques, roto-fermenters, etc.

You can also watch the doc “Barolo Boys: The Story of a Revolution” which I believe is currently available on Amazon Prime. Also available to stream via Vimeo or stream/purchase via iTunes.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#58 Post by F.Daner »

At some point she changed Via Nuova from single site to a blend of her 7 vineyards.

I haven't had any of her wines yet but but some 13-16. How would her oak treatment compare to Scavino ? I found them very modern in style and my least favorite 16's I've tried so far.
John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:48 am I think she dialed back on the oak somewhat in the early 2000s. I visited in 2005 and she said something about how "we had to go to extremes" to make a point, in the 90s, I assumed.

I'm generally quite averse to oak on nebbiolo, but her 01 Cannubi was very balanced in its early years.

Via Nuova isn't a top site, which might be another factor here.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#59 Post by J D o v e »

I found the Via Nuova among the more obviously oaked Barolo I’ve had from 2016 — more so than the Scavinos I’ve tried. I’ll open Scavino’s Prapo and Carobric tonight as a point of comparison...
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#60 Post by F.Daner »

Great thread so adding some of my notes. Cordero is a new producer for me and probably my find of the year. Loved the 16 base Barolo so much I tried one of the 13 Cru's and wow.

2016 Cordero di Montezemolo Barolo Monfalletto- 94
9/17/2020 rated 94 points: I've had 2 bottles over the last month with very consistent experiences. This opens up with a very expressive nose with floral and cherry notes. It follows with complex flavors that have a slight richness to it and an excellent finish. Tannins are fine and slightly ripe but the wine already shows terrific balance. It's expressive, classy and flat out delicious. It picked up some additional weight and depth over 3 hours and never showed signs of shutting down. It will be hard to give these more time as good as good as it drinks now. Modern but classy Barolo and my qpr of the year at $40

2013 Cordero di Montezemolo Barolo Bricco Gattera - 95
Cordero got on my radar with the terrific 16 Monfalletto. I was excited to try the Gattera with a bit of age. This is a beautiful, expressive and young wine. It has a terrific nose of red cherry, floral and slight mint tones. It's packed with flavor and fine tannin. It was a sheer joy to drink. It picked up a bit of depth and power with air. It was also a fantastic match with Risotto and mushrooms. Highly recommend and I bought some more as I'll give the next bottle at least 2 years. This should be stunning at age 15.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#61 Post by F.Daner »

Jim- you are rolling !Thanks for trying and posting on so many 16's. I've already picked up 3 wines I had not purchased.

I grabbed a bunch of the Via Nuova earlier this year but the notes on CT all seem to indicate it's really young and not showing much. Your note was a bit more positive outside of the oak influence. I've had 2 Scavino- the normale which i thought was fine but wouldn't buy more of(it fell well short of my favorites) and the Monvigliero. It just came off as a big wine and very modern in style. I'm more Napa than BDX and it just reminded me of a very modern Cab. I enjoyed it more with food and on day 2 when it calmed down a bit.
J D o v e wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 2:31 pm I found the Via Nuova among the more obviously oaked Barolo I’ve had from 2016 — more so than the Scavinos I’ve tried. I’ll open Scavino’s Prapo and Carobric tonight as a point of comparison...
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#62 Post by Justin S »

F.Daner wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 2:36 pm Great thread so adding some of my notes. Cordero is a new producer for me and probably my find of the year. Loved the 16 base Barolo so much I tried one of the 13 Cru's and wow.

2016 Cordero di Montezemolo Barolo Monfalletto- 94
9/17/2020 rated 94 points: I've had 2 bottles over the last month with very consistent experiences. This opens up with a very expressive nose with floral and cherry notes. It follows with complex flavors that have a slight richness to it and an excellent finish. Tannins are fine and slightly ripe but the wine already shows terrific balance. It's expressive, classy and flat out delicious. It picked up some additional weight and depth over 3 hours and never showed signs of shutting down. It will be hard to give these more time as good as good as it drinks now. Modern but classy Barolo and my qpr of the year at $40

2013 Cordero di Montezemolo Barolo Bricco Gattera - 95
Cordero got on my radar with the terrific 16 Monfalletto. I was excited to try the Gattera with a bit of age. This is a beautiful, expressive and young wine. It has a terrific nose of red cherry, floral and slight mint tones. It's packed with flavor and fine tannin. It was a sheer joy to drink. It picked up a bit of depth and power with air. It was also a fantastic match with Risotto and mushrooms. Highly recommend and I bought some more as I'll give the next bottle at least 2 years. This should be stunning at age 15.
I do like to have some earlier drinking Barolos in my cellar while I wait for the $75+ wines to be "ready." Have you tried the 2016 Trediberri? $45-50, but I wouldn't rate it as high as 94.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#63 Post by John Morris »

Cordero di Montezemolo is a big and historic winery. It's owned by a wealthy family (a brother was head of the Italian manufacturers' association or some such, a position that landed him on TV regularly). It's a major vineyard owner -- with 26 hectares owned and a total of 51ha under their control including leased sites.

They're pretty far over in the modern camp. The winery website describes the Gattera thus:
Maceration takes place over 6-8 days in stainless steel tanks, followed by 10-12 days of fermentation [on the short side - JM]. Wine is then drawn off into small French oak barrels to undergo malolactic fermentation [malo in barrique is definitely untraditional - JM].
The Monfalletto:
4 – 5 day maceration and another 10-12 to complete fermentation in stainless steel tanks [very short - most traditionalists go with 21+ days total - JM]. Drawn off into different sizes and types of wood barrels where malolactic fermentation takes place [sp evidently partly in small barrels - JM].
... All the various lots undergo a period of aging in different types of French and Slovenian wood for a period between 18 to 24 months.
Chambers Street has had a number of CdM Barolos from the 70s over the years, and many of those have been excellent.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#64 Post by J D o v e »

2h decant
I tasted these with the last glass of the Vajra Bricco delle Viole (which was under argon) as a point of comparison.

2016 Paulo Scavino Barolo Prapo
Garnet color with some brick at the edges. Straightforward nose with black cherry fruit, iron, and a bit of cinnamon hard candy. Crunchy ripe red and black cherry fruit. Good beginning, middle and end to this wine. It ticks all the boxes... but, not super exciting tonight. Happy to have more — we’ll see where it goes. But, if I had to choose...

2016 Paulo Scavino Barolo Carobric
Touch murkier garnet color with more brick than the Prapo. A good bit more complex on the nose with a slightly riper feel — dark cherry, plum, some loamy earth, licorice, pine, and orange peel, all lifted by some barely perceptible VA. Another wine that just pops and fans out on the palate. Juicy, super ripe and super fresh at the same time. Such a great combination. Plenty of structure, but like so many of these wines, it’s just buried in fruit at this stage. Long and powerful finish. If you have this one, open a bottle. It’s super tasty tonight. Terrific QPR here. Very highly recommended.

With respect to oak — I’m not clear on the elevage of these wines but if they used much new oak, it’s not obvious. They may well have — but, it doesn’t stand out if they did (as was the case with the Via Nuova). To me, the Carobric and Via Nuova are comparable in quality — the latter being comparatively more modern in style and definitely showing overt oakiness.

I went back to the Vajra BdV. Spectacular stuff and my favorite 2016 so far... The purity and depth of fruit is so impressive. How do you not love this wine?

Cheers.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#65 Post by Dav1d S@wyer »

John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 4:39 pm Cordero di Montezemolo is a big and historic winery. It's owned by a wealthy family (a brother was head of the Italian manufacturers' association or some such, a position that landed him on TV regularly). It's a major vineyard owner -- with 26 hectares owned and a total of 51ha under their control including leased sites.
I started reading about Cordero di Montezemolo's history recently and it led me to this fascinating article from the WSJ in 2011 about Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, the Marchese di Montezemolo - https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424 ... 4264598296

Former Chairman of Ferrari and Fiat who entertained the idea of trying to become Italian prime minister after Berlusconi.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#66 Post by ChrisJames »

John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 4:39 pm Cordero di Montezemolo is a big and historic winery. It's owned by a wealthy family (a brother was head of the Italian manufacturers' association or some such, a position that landed him on TV regularly). It's a major vineyard owner -- with 26 hectares owned and a total of 51ha under their control including leased sites.

They're pretty far over in the modern camp. The winery website describes the Gattera thus:
Maceration takes place over 6-8 days in stainless steel tanks, followed by 10-12 days of fermentation [on the short side - JM]. Wine is then drawn off into small French oak barrels to undergo malolactic fermentation [malo in barrique is definitely untraditional - JM].
The Monfalletto:
4 – 5 day maceration and another 10-12 to complete fermentation in stainless steel tanks [very short - most traditionalists go with 21+ days total - JM]. Drawn off into different sizes and types of wood barrels where malolactic fermentation takes place [sp evidently partly in small barrels - JM].
... All the various lots undergo a period of aging in different types of French and Slovenian wood for a period between 18 to 24 months.
Chambers Street has had a number of CdM Barolos from the 70s over the years, and many of those have been excellent.
I had a bottle of Cordero di Montezemolo Enrico VI Barolo, a special bottling they make from grapes out of Villaro. I believe it was a 1982 (maybe 1985) and it was outstanding! So good indeed that I paid them a visit in 2003. Imagine my disappointment when I found the cellar wall to wall with new barrique. It was not a highlight of the trip.

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#67 Post by John Morris »

J D o v e wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 5:51 pm 2016 Paulo Scavino Barolo Carobric
Touch murkier garnet color with more brick than the Prapo. A good bit more complex on the nose with a slightly riper feel — dark cherry, plum, some loamy earth, licorice, pine, and orange peel, all lifted by some barely perceptible VA. ...
First, let me commend you on the correct use of "lifted"! [wink.gif]

On the oak usage, the winery's website is conspicuously silent. Skurnick's website has some details, which I read as an answer to the reputation the wines had for being very oaky in the past:
Winemaking at the estate has evolved over time.... In 1993, rotofermentors arrived at the estate, and between 1996-1999, Slavonian casks were replaced with French oak—but barriques here were always and only used for the first 10 months of aging to help fix color before the wines were transferred to larger oak botti. The percentage of new oak has been much reduced from a height of 30% from the 1990s to 2004, to only 20% new from 2004 – 2008, 17% new in 2011 & 2012, and for the 2015 harvest they have even reduced to a further 14% new.

.... Vinification and aging are the same for all of the non-riserva Barolo to emphasize the terroir of each site. Each cru & sub-cru is vinified separately in stainless steel. Native yeasts, temperature control during fermentation, 8 – 12 days maceration, 20 – 30 days of alcoholic fermentation. Selection of the best performing plots during the first year of aging. ... Aging 10 months in neutral French oak barrels, then 12 months in large casks, 10 months in stainless steel, 10 months in bottle before sale.
Based on the ample maceration/fermentation time (~30-40 days), the rotofermenters must have been abandoned.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#68 Post by John Morris »

Dav1d S@wyer wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 6:39 pm
John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 4:39 pm Cordero di Montezemolo is a big and historic winery. It's owned by a wealthy family (a brother was head of the Italian manufacturers' association or some such, a position that landed him on TV regularly). It's a major vineyard owner -- with 26 hectares owned and a total of 51ha under their control including leased sites.
I started reading about Cordero di Montezemolo's history recently and it led me to this fascinating article from the WSJ in 2011 about Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, the Marchese di Montezemolo - https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424 ... 4264598296

Former Chairman of Ferrari and Fiat who entertained the idea of trying to become Italian prime minister after Berlusconi.
That's right, i've forgotten his corporate roles. Being chairman of Fiat is pretty close to being president of Italy.

I think Giovanni Cordero di Montezemolo of the winery is Luca's brother.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#69 Post by eweininger »

John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 9:12 am
eweininger wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 6:23 am
John Morris wrote: December 1st, 2020, 7:40 pm Opened a '16 Schiavenza - Ceretta this evening with veal chops in a chanterelle cream sauce. Popped and poured, without a decant.
Thanks for this, John. Can I ask whether you thought the alcohol stood out on this wine? I thought I remembered seeing something to that effect.
It's labeled at 15%, but that didn't stand out, and I'm usually one of the first to notice high ABV. It was a cool night. Perhaps the alcohol might have been more conspicuous if the apartment had been warmer.
Appreciate the response, and in the process of grabbing a couple.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#70 Post by F.Daner »

Hi John,
I figured that to be the case considering how approachable the wine was. There was a slight richness to it which I attributed to the oak but the fruit is just outstanding and the tannins are there but very fine. I've had a few bottles now and it doesn't seem like the style gets in the way. The Gattera remined me a bit of Grasso. I love traditional Barolo but these scratch a nice itch as well. I got a bit of a "flabby" perception on the Scavino Normale which I'm thinking could be oak ? I thought the Cordero Monfalletto was significantly better.

On another note I had my final 2008 Schiavenza Cerretta over the summer. What a wine. As many have said before I wish I would have let the rest get to this point.

8/14/2020 rated 94 points: This is clearly in it's drinking window now. It has notes of tar, dark red fruit and hints of menthol that fill out and expand in a seemless finish. Tannins are super fine and barely perceivable. It hasn't taken on any secondary characteristics but it's in beautiful shape right now and everything I want in Barolo. We paired with Pork Rib Roast and it worked perfectly.
John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 4:39 pm Cordero di Montezemolo is a big and historic winery. It's owned by a wealthy family (a brother was head of the Italian manufacturers' association or some such, a position that landed him on TV regularly). It's a major vineyard owner -- with 26 hectares owned and a total of 51ha under their control including leased sites.

They're pretty far over in the modern camp. The winery website describes the Gattera thus:
Maceration takes place over 6-8 days in stainless steel tanks, followed by 10-12 days of fermentation [on the short side - JM]. Wine is then drawn off into small French oak barrels to undergo malolactic fermentation [malo in barrique is definitely untraditional - JM].
The Monfalletto:
4 – 5 day maceration and another 10-12 to complete fermentation in stainless steel tanks [very short - most traditionalists go with 21+ days total - JM]. Drawn off into different sizes and types of wood barrels where malolactic fermentation takes place [sp evidently partly in small barrels - JM].
... All the various lots undergo a period of aging in different types of French and Slovenian wood for a period between 18 to 24 months.
Chambers Street has had a number of CdM Barolos from the 70s over the years, and many of those have been excellent.
Fred

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#71 Post by F.Daner »

Hi Justin- I have not had the Trediberri but have seen some positive notes on it. Will take a look. At this point I've had the following normale Barolo ranked in preference.

Top wines
Burlotto
Vietti Castiglione
F. Alessandria
Cordero Monfalletto

I splurged on the Burlotto and have some for the cellar but won't buy more based on price. The other 3 are excellent and right there with the Burlotto.

Very good
Massolino- so young. Finally showed up on day 3. Won't touch for 5 years but buying more
Pira- more approachable and very good.
Vajra Albe

Good
Sebaste Tresuri- if you have a Total Wine near you these are winery direct wines you can get 15% off on. Solid for the $35 I paid
Scavino- pretty good and one I'll open for Barolo newbies. Not buying more.

I haven't veered near the Cru's like Jim has and have only opened the Scavino Monvigliero which was excellent.

Justin S wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I do like to have some earlier drinking Barolos in my cellar while I wait for the $75+ wines to be "ready." Have you tried the 2016 Trediberri? $45-50, but I wouldn't rate it as high as 94.
Fred

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#72 Post by F.Daner »

Tempting me to try one as these are always one of my favorites every vintage. A recent 12 and 14 are excellent. I might try the 15 Ravera first. The recent notes on CT are really positive


[


I went back to the Vajra BdV. Spectacular stuff and my favorite 2016 so far... The purity and depth of fruit is so impressive. How do you not love this wine?

Cheers.
[/quote]
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#73 Post by J D o v e »

Decanted for 1h and tasted next a glass of P. Scavino Carobric for reference.

2016 Elio Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate
Another great 2016 Barolo. Interesting and masculine nose with black cherry fruit, something a little musky, a bit of camp fire, and some rust. Just a little heat. Bit richer than others tasted recently. Huge plum and dark cherry fruit keeps building on a base of stiff tannins and some prickly acidic bite. This is a very juicy wine builds on the palate like a ‘V’ — just growing in volume through a really long finish. Should cellar a very long time. Quite open and interesting. Worth opening soon if you have several bottles but will likely close down given all the structure.

I slightly prefer the Vajra Bricco delle Viole, Cogno Ravera and F. Alessandria Monvigliero to this — but, it’s not far behind for me. Roughly on par (for me) with several of the P. Scavino wines I’ve tried (Carobric, Ravera, Monvigliero, and Bric del Fiasc).
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#74 Post by Mont Stern »

J D o v e wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 3:52 pm Decanted for 1h and tasted next a glass of P. Scavino Carobric for reference.

2016 Elio Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate
Another great 2016 Barolo. Interesting and masculine nose with black cherry fruit, something a little musky, a bit of camp fire, and some rust. Just a little heat. Bit richer than others tasted recently. Huge plum and dark cherry fruit keeps building on a base of stiff tannins and some prickly acidic bite. This is a very juicy wine builds on the palate like a ‘V’ — just growing in volume through a really long finish. Should cellar a very long time. Quite open and interesting. Worth opening soon if you have several bottles but will likely close down given all the structure.

I slightly prefer the Vajra Bricco delle Viole, Cogno Ravera and F. Alessandria Monvigliero to this — but, it’s not far behind for me. Roughly on par (for me) with several of the P. Scavino wines I’ve tried (Carobric, Ravera, Monvigliero, and Bric del Fiasc).
I enjoyed the Elio Grasso Casa Mate but I thought the E. Pira & Figli (Chiara Boschis) Barolo Cannubi was a significant step above it or any of the Scavino cuvees.

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#75 Post by F.Daner »

Jim- you're opening some of my favorites. Love the Casa Mate.

Mont- Thanks for the update on Pira Cannubi. Seems like it is a favorite for sure.

I'm continuing to work my way through the line up of base Barolo's. I'll add Azelia to my list of favorites. Really enjoyed this one and will be buying more.

2016 Azelia Barolo

12/3/2020 rated 92 points: Really beautiful wine with floral, cherry and mint tones on the nose. It's very expressive and persistent and deep in flavor with similar notes on the palate. This is medium body and weight with the tannins showing up on the long finish. It shows some of the Serralunga imprint with power and tannins but approachable now with air. It should develop nicely over the next few years. I'll be buying more. Very good
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#76 Post by J D o v e »

F.Daner wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:30 pm Jim- you're opening some of my favorites. Love the Casa Mate.

Mont- Thanks for the update on Pira Cannubi. Seems like it is a favorite for sure.

I'm continuing to work my way through the line up of base Barolo's. I'll add Azelia to my list of favorites. Really enjoyed this one and will be buying more.

2016 Azelia Barolo

12/3/2020 rated 92 points: Really beautiful wine with floral, cherry and mint tones on the nose. It's very expressive and persistent and deep in flavor with similar notes on the palate. This is medium body and weight with the tannins showing up on the long finish. It shows some of the Serralunga imprint with power and tannins but approachable now with air. It should develop nicely over the next few years. I'll be buying more. Very good
I liked this one but didn’t buy more because I hate the plastic corks. I feel good about DIAM closures and have had very good experience with them, but I’m just not comfortable with the spongey plastic ones that they’re using. It’s probably not rational.
J i m (Bordeauxnut)

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added Cogno Ravera)

#77 Post by John Morris »

Andrew A r n t f i e l d wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:53 am Definitely not a darling of Kerin O'Keefe. Chiara Boschis / E. Pira doesn't get a single mention in her Barolo and Barbaresco book. But Kerin makes it clear right up front in the book that she isn't a fan of noticeable oak in Barolo, and consequently a number of modernist producers are barely mentioned.

Domenico Clerico fared marginally better than Boschis: Clerico at least had their name listed under "Other Wineries of Note" in the Monforte d'Alba chapter.
As I recall, her book omits Vietti, too.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#78 Post by C. Keller »

anyone had any of the 2016 Nervi-Conterno's? Scores are all over the place on the regular bottling and I see some pretty highs cores from AG on the singles but he's saying the Molsino will need 15 years to come around whereas the Valferana will need half the time
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#79 Post by Lorenzo F »

For me burlottos monvigliero, ester canale and bartolo are the best I have tried in the vintage .
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#80 Post by John Morris »

I had the '16 Giacomo Fennochio - Villero last night. I liked it, but it was very different in style from the Schiavenza -Ceretta I posted on a few days ago. If the Schiavenza was extracted, juicy and dark-fruited, this was lighter bodied and more (yes) brown-fruited. This seemed like it might have seen more air somehow. Not that it was oxidized, but it tasted more like a Barolo that had spent more years in cask. More austere. Both producers are pretty traditional. I'm sure some of the difference is the terroir -- Serralunga (Ceretta) versus Villero (Castiglione Falletto).

It was good with gorgonzola-stuffed gnocchi in sage butter, and with cheese, but it wasn't as immediately appealing as a lot of '16s because there was less fruit. With less flesh, the tannin and acid stood out more, though the tannins weren't particularly hard.

I'm buying the vintage very selectively, and I'll probably pass on this. But I'd still give it 90-ish points on my tough-grading scale.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#81 Post by Andreas Nielsen »

John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 12:27 pm Yup.

There was a very good academic article maybe 10 years ago, tracking the history and the personal dynamics. I was just checking, but I can't seem to find a copy in my own docs. I know I posted on it, but I'm not sure how to pull it up. It was quite fascinating, with many layers or explanation.
Maybe this paper?
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=1008367

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added Cogno Ravera)

#82 Post by J. Migone »

Mattstolz wrote: November 28th, 2020, 7:48 pm 2016 GD Vajra Barolo Albe
This wine is always a great QPR, and is always a good choice for an early check in on a vintage because of style, even though its still got all the classic notes of berries, roses, some leather, but dominated by the fruit at this time. its not a shy wine, but its a really enjoyable one.
I just had this wine and it's absolutely delicious. Fresh and well balanced. Love it.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Pira Via Nuova and Vajra Bricco delle Viole)

#83 Post by John Morris »

Andreas Nielsen wrote: December 4th, 2020, 3:50 pm
John Morris wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 12:27 pm Yup.

There was a very good academic article maybe 10 years ago, tracking the history and the personal dynamics. I was just checking, but I can't seem to find a copy in my own docs. I know I posted on it, but I'm not sure how to pull it up. It was quite fascinating, with many layers or explanation.
Maybe this paper?
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=1008367
Yes! Thanks for locating it.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#84 Post by ChrisJames »

C. Keller wrote: December 4th, 2020, 9:08 am anyone had any of the 2016 Nervi-Conterno's? Scores are all over the place on the regular bottling and I see some pretty highs cores from AG on the singles but he's saying the Molsino will need 15 years to come around whereas the Valferana will need half the time
There have been some very positive posts on the basic bottling on this board a while back. I bought a case and tried a bottle a few weeks ago. No question that it was Alto Piedmonte and not Langhe Nebbiolo from its level of acidity and minerals expression. My wife killed her share of it which says it must have been pretty damn tasty. But I found it rather closed and unwelcoming. It is definitely not full bodied, lush, or polished at this point. Either it is shutting down or I just mistakenly thought it would be more fruit-forward and approachable based on other reviews. That doesn't mean I was disappointed or doubt its future greatness. I think I will probably ignore it for the next five years, and that will just be the beginning of the drinking window.

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#85 Post by ChrisJames »

John Morris wrote: December 4th, 2020, 3:41 pm I had the '16 Giacomo Fennochio - Villero last night. I liked it, but it was very different in style from the Schiavenza -Ceretta I posted on a few days ago. If the Schiavenza was extracted, juicy and dark-fruited, this was lighter bodied and more (yes) brown-fruited. This seemed like it might have seen more air somehow. Not that it was oxidized, but it tasted more like a Barolo that had spent more years in cask. More austere. Both producers are pretty traditional. I'm sure some of the difference is the terroir -- Serralunga (Ceretta) versus Villero (Castiglione Falletto).

It was good with gorgonzola-stuffed gnocchi in sage butter, and with cheese, but it wasn't as immediately appealing as a lot of '16s because there was less fruit. With less flesh, the tannin and acid stood out more, though the tannins weren't particularly hard.

I'm buying the vintage very selectively, and I'll probably pass on this. But I'd still give it 90-ish points on my tough-grading scale.
Interesting observations on the Fennochio. The Fennochio sounds really old school (in a not entirely positive way?). The always accurate internet says the two wines see the same amount of time in cask. I did get some Fennochio Bussia, untasted. I hope I find it more inspiring (in many years time).
Last edited by ChrisJames on December 4th, 2020, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#86 Post by Max S. »

I bought a couple bottles of Vietti Castiglione and Cavallotto Bricco Boschis. I was expecting these to make it 20+ years based on previous discussions of Barolo. Is that something to expect or am I misjudged ageability? Particularly for the Vietti.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#87 Post by ChrisJames »

I don't know about the Vietti's longevity, but the Cavallotto BB 2001 is a still a baby. It will last 30+ years easily.
Last edited by ChrisJames on December 5th, 2020, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#88 Post by T. Williams »

This thread has been absolutely great. I'm actually at the point that I think I need to pump the breaks on the 2016 Barolo purchases. I think I've went both too broad and too deep. To date I've bought:

Burlotto
Cavallotto Bricco Boschis
G. Fenocchio Bussia
F. Alessandria
Renato Ratti Marcenasco
Vajra Albe
Vajra Bricco delle Viole
Vietti Castiglione

Right now I am really struggling not to pull the trigger on some of the Burlotto Cannubi and Monvigliero but $250/bottle is brutally expensive.

To date I haven't opened anything from the above list, but probably will tonight. Most likely one of the Renato Ratti's as I don't necessarily see those being in my cellar for 20 years. If I do, I'll follow up with some notes.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#89 Post by F.Daner »

I would concur on Cavallotto based on all the notes I've read. I'm itching to try the 13 but seems like still to early.

I've had the Vietti 16 from half bottle. Love the wine and think 10-12 years for it's first sweet spot but it's built for longer. AG drinking window is 2024-2041 as well.
Max S. wrote: December 4th, 2020, 8:14 pm I bought a couple bottles of Vietti Castiglione and Cavallotto Bricco Boschis. I was expecting these to make it 20+ years based on previous discussions of Barolo. Is that something to expect or am I misjudged ageability? Particularly for the Vietti.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#90 Post by F.Daner »

Tim- The Alessandria classic is beautiful and I would definitely invest in some of their Cru's. The Scavino Monvigliero and the F. Alessandria version not quite up to Burlotto but great wines. I think Jim the OP has had them both. I've had the Scavino.

Chira Boschi Cannubi would be worth hunting down though different from Burlotto the notes are very consistent and very positive.

I'm excited about trying the top tier Cru's in the future but what I think makes this vintage so special is how good the entry level wines are. My favorites are case+ purchase for me. My son whose away at college has lost his room to overflow wine storage.

Lastly, If anyone has access to 2016 Luciano Sandrone Nebbiolo d'Alba Valmaggiore at a good price snag it. It is as good as any of my favorite 16 normale's. It's priced as one as well but worth it.
T. Williams wrote: December 5th, 2020, 2:24 am This thread has been absolutely great. I'm actually at the point that I think I need to pump the breaks on the 2016 Barolo purchases. I think I've went both too broad and too deep. To date I've bought:

Burlotto
Cavallotto Bricco Boschis
G. Fenocchio Bussia
F. Alessandria
Renato Ratti Marcenasco
Vajra Albe
Vajra Bricco delle Viole
Vietti Castiglione

Right now I am really struggling not to pull the trigger on some of the Burlotto Cannubi and Monvigliero but $250/bottle is brutally expensive.

To date I haven't opened anything from the above list, but probably will tonight. Most likely one of the Renato Ratti's as I don't necessarily see those being in my cellar for 20 years. If I do, I'll follow up with some notes.
Fred

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#91 Post by F.Daner »

I completely missed this Jim. I went back and checked the cork and was surprised. I think it's fine for hanging in for 5-7 years which is when I'll drink mine in that window as it's so good right now.
J D o v e wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:44 pm
F.Daner wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:30 pm Jim- you're opening some of my favorites. Love the Casa Mate.

Mont- Thanks for the update on Pira Cannubi. Seems like it is a favorite for sure.

I'm continuing to work my way through the line up of base Barolo's. I'll add Azelia to my list of favorites. Really enjoyed this one and will be buying more.

2016 Azelia Barolo

12/3/2020 rated 92 points: Really beautiful wine with floral, cherry and mint tones on the nose. It's very expressive and persistent and deep in flavor with similar notes on the palate. This is medium body and weight with the tannins showing up on the long finish. It shows some of the Serralunga imprint with power and tannins but approachable now with air. It should develop nicely over the next few years. I'll be buying more. Very good
I liked this one but didn’t buy more because I hate the plastic corks. I feel good about DIAM closures and have had very good experience with them, but I’m just not comfortable with the spongey plastic ones that they’re using. It’s probably not rational.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#92 Post by J D o v e »

F.Daner wrote: December 5th, 2020, 5:05 am I completely missed this Jim. I went back and checked the cork and was surprised. I think it's fine for hanging in for 5-7 years which is when I'll drink mine in that window as it's so good right now.
J D o v e wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:44 pm
F.Daner wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:30 pm Jim- you're opening some of my favorites. Love the Casa Mate.

Mont- Thanks for the update on Pira Cannubi. Seems like it is a favorite for sure.

I'm continuing to work my way through the line up of base Barolo's. I'll add Azelia to my list of favorites. Really enjoyed this one and will be buying more.

2016 Azelia Barolo

12/3/2020 rated 92 points: Really beautiful wine with floral, cherry and mint tones on the nose. It's very expressive and persistent and deep in flavor with similar notes on the palate. This is medium body and weight with the tannins showing up on the long finish. It shows some of the Serralunga imprint with power and tannins but approachable now with air. It should develop nicely over the next few years. I'll be buying more. Very good
I liked this one but didn’t buy more because I hate the plastic corks. I feel good about DIAM closures and have had very good experience with them, but I’m just not comfortable with the spongey plastic ones that they’re using. It’s probably not rational.
I’m sure it’s perfectly fine. I’m just not crazy about that particular closure.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added Cogno Ravera)

#93 Post by Andrew A r n t f i e l d »

John Morris wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 8:36 pm
Andrew A r n t f i e l d wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 10:53 am Definitely not a darling of Kerin O'Keefe. Chiara Boschis / E. Pira doesn't get a single mention in her Barolo and Barbaresco book. But Kerin makes it clear right up front in the book that she isn't a fan of noticeable oak in Barolo, and consequently a number of modernist producers are barely mentioned.

Domenico Clerico fared marginally better than Boschis: Clerico at least had their name listed under "Other Wineries of Note" in the Monforte d'Alba chapter.
As I recall, her book omits Vietti, too.
Yes, Vietti gets the same coverage as Clerico. One mention under “Other Wineries of Note”.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#94 Post by Doug Schulman »

ChrisJames wrote: December 4th, 2020, 7:03 pm
C. Keller wrote: December 4th, 2020, 9:08 am anyone had any of the 2016 Nervi-Conterno's? Scores are all over the place on the regular bottling and I see some pretty highs cores from AG on the singles but he's saying the Molsino will need 15 years to come around whereas the Valferana will need half the time
There have been some very positive posts on the basic bottling on this board a while back. I bought a case and tried a bottle a few weeks ago. No question that it was Alto Piedmonte and not Langhe Nebbiolo from its level of acidity and minerals expression. My wife killed her share of it which says it must have been pretty damn tasty. But I found it rather closed and unwelcoming. It is definitely not full bodied, lush, or polished at this point. Either it is shutting down or I just mistakenly thought it would be more fruit-forward and approachable based on other reviews. That doesn't mean I was disappointed or doubt its future greatness. I think I will probably ignore it for the next five years, and that will just be the beginning of the drinking window.
I had the ‘16 regular bottling about a week ago with similar impressions. I loved the ‘15 last winter, so I think the ‘16 just needs time. I think maybe more than 5 years.

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#95 Post by C. Keller »

Doug Schulman wrote: December 5th, 2020, 11:50 am
ChrisJames wrote: December 4th, 2020, 7:03 pm
C. Keller wrote: December 4th, 2020, 9:08 am anyone had any of the 2016 Nervi-Conterno's? Scores are all over the place on the regular bottling and I see some pretty highs cores from AG on the singles but he's saying the Molsino will need 15 years to come around whereas the Valferana will need half the time
There have been some very positive posts on the basic bottling on this board a while back. I bought a case and tried a bottle a few weeks ago. No question that it was Alto Piedmonte and not Langhe Nebbiolo from its level of acidity and minerals expression. My wife killed her share of it which says it must have been pretty damn tasty. But I found it rather closed and unwelcoming. It is definitely not full bodied, lush, or polished at this point. Either it is shutting down or I just mistakenly thought it would be more fruit-forward and approachable based on other reviews. That doesn't mean I was disappointed or doubt its future greatness. I think I will probably ignore it for the next five years, and that will just be the beginning of the drinking window.
I had the ‘16 regular bottling about a week ago with similar impressions. I loved the ‘15 last winter, so I think the ‘16 just needs time. I think maybe more than 5 years.
Glad to hear. Seems like in 17 the only on being made is the basic and contains the best from the singles as the singles wont be bottled. I'll look for either.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#96 Post by J D o v e »

C. Keller wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:16 pm
Doug Schulman wrote: December 5th, 2020, 11:50 am
ChrisJames wrote: December 4th, 2020, 7:03 pm

There have been some very positive posts on the basic bottling on this board a while back. I bought a case and tried a bottle a few weeks ago. No question that it was Alto Piedmonte and not Langhe Nebbiolo from its level of acidity and minerals expression. My wife killed her share of it which says it must have been pretty damn tasty. But I found it rather closed and unwelcoming. It is definitely not full bodied, lush, or polished at this point. Either it is shutting down or I just mistakenly thought it would be more fruit-forward and approachable based on other reviews. That doesn't mean I was disappointed or doubt its future greatness. I think I will probably ignore it for the next five years, and that will just be the beginning of the drinking window.
I had the ‘16 regular bottling about a week ago with similar impressions. I loved the ‘15 last winter, so I think the ‘16 just needs time. I think maybe more than 5 years.
Glad to hear. Seems like in 17 the only on being made is the basic and contains the best from the singles as the singles wont be bottled. I'll look for either.
The same was true of the 2015, if I’m not mistaken.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#97 Post by ChrisJames »

C. Keller wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:16 pm
Doug Schulman wrote: December 5th, 2020, 11:50 am
ChrisJames wrote: December 4th, 2020, 7:03 pm

There have been some very positive posts on the basic bottling on this board a while back. I bought a case and tried a bottle a few weeks ago. No question that it was Alto Piedmonte and not Langhe Nebbiolo from its level of acidity and minerals expression. My wife killed her share of it which says it must have been pretty damn tasty. But I found it rather closed and unwelcoming. It is definitely not full bodied, lush, or polished at this point. Either it is shutting down or I just mistakenly thought it would be more fruit-forward and approachable based on other reviews. That doesn't mean I was disappointed or doubt its future greatness. I think I will probably ignore it for the next five years, and that will just be the beginning of the drinking window.
I had the ‘16 regular bottling about a week ago with similar impressions. I loved the ‘15 last winter, so I think the ‘16 just needs time. I think maybe more than 5 years.
Glad to hear. Seems like in 17 the only on being made is the basic and contains the best from the singles as the singles wont be bottled. I'll look for either.
Empire Wine in NY has the 2016 for $42.95. Buy a case and get free shipping. [cheers.gif]

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#98 Post by Max S. »

ChrisJames wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:25 pm
C. Keller wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:16 pm
Doug Schulman wrote: December 5th, 2020, 11:50 am
I had the ‘16 regular bottling about a week ago with similar impressions. I loved the ‘15 last winter, so I think the ‘16 just needs time. I think maybe more than 5 years.
Glad to hear. Seems like in 17 the only on being made is the basic and contains the best from the singles as the singles wont be bottled. I'll look for either.
Empire Wine in NY has the 2016 for $42.95. Buy a case and get free shipping. [cheers.gif]
The free shipping is mix and match too - a few good options there
5 w 0 m l 3 y

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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#99 Post by John Morris »

F.Daner wrote: December 5th, 2020, 5:05 am I completely missed this Jim. I went back and checked the cork and was surprised. I think it's fine for hanging in for 5-7 years which is when I'll drink mine in that window as it's so good right now.
J D o v e wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:44 pm
F.Daner wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:30 pm Jim- you're opening some of my favorites. Love the Casa Mate.

Mont- Thanks for the update on Pira Cannubi. Seems like it is a favorite for sure.

I'm continuing to work my way through the line up of base Barolo's. I'll add Azelia to my list of favorites. Really enjoyed this one and will be buying more.

2016 Azelia Barolo

12/3/2020 rated 92 points: Really beautiful wine with floral, cherry and mint tones on the nose. It's very expressive and persistent and deep in flavor with similar notes on the palate. This is medium body and weight with the tannins showing up on the long finish. It shows some of the Serralunga imprint with power and tannins but approachable now with air. It should develop nicely over the next few years. I'll be buying more. Very good
I liked this one but didn’t buy more because I hate the plastic corks. I feel good about DIAM closures and have had very good experience with them, but I’m just not comfortable with the spongey plastic ones that they’re using. It’s probably not rational.
Some of those spongy plastic closures had big problems. JJ Christoffel used them on some rieslings in 01 or 01 -- can't remember which -- and a bunch of them oxidized pretty quickly.
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Re: 2016 Barolo Notes (added E. Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate)

#100 Post by C. Keller »

Max S. wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:31 pm
ChrisJames wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:25 pm
C. Keller wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:16 pm
Glad to hear. Seems like in 17 the only on being made is the basic and contains the best from the singles as the singles wont be bottled. I'll look for either.
Empire Wine in NY has the 2016 for $42.95. Buy a case and get free shipping. [cheers.gif]
The free shipping is mix and match too - a few good options there
Oooooooooo noooooooo....I swore I was done for December after the 20% off sale at Morrell last week
Chris

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