Wrapping up relocation to the Denver area. I need to build a wine storage space in the basement of the house. Any recommendations for contractors to handle the job?
I want something space-efficient and very utilitarian like a public storage space… no custom shelving or tasting space… just a temperature and humidity controlled room with strong metal shelving units to hold cases. I’m thinking I don’t need a designer but finding carpentry and HVAC contractors who have worked together on cellar projects seems like a good idea.
Honestly, if it wasn’t for coordinating a HVAC system installation, I’d go the DIY route. My step-dad is a retired carpenter and would love to toss his tools into the truck, take a road trip, and help me build this.
Hi Patrick, I just checked and the firm I used (for the HVAC) is no longer in business as the owner retired a few years back. With that said search for commercial refrigeration, check some references, and you’ll be fine. I never get a “wine cooler brand” but any commercial firm can install a split or mini split system than can be serviced but a regular HVAC company. These are not rocket science. Humidity is tricky and in CO we added humidity with either an evaporative humidifier or even a steam one in our most tricked out cellar which was ducted. Be sure to discuss that as if you want to run high humidity you’ll need to add water yourself, or run water lines. And then cooler needs some specific setup to run in a high humidity environment. You’ll want closed cell foam insulation all around to keep things insulated and simple. With proper instruction any GC can handle this but really just need a few subs who are competent. My info on specific people is dated and from Boulder anyhow.
Thanks for the advice, John. Being able to dodge a specialized system sounds attractive. Always struck me that it was asking too much of one piece of equipment to keep temp and humidity in tight ranges. Probably why they seem relatively unreliable.
There are experts on the board but when you want to add humidity and to cool a room they basically fight each other. I wanted 70 percent humidity and was able to get there with a steam humidifier. However I would prob not go that route again just due to the extra expense and maintenance of the steam unit. I have also used a portable evaporative humidifier which I think is generally fine. Many say low humidity is fine But I would not just try to keep it above 40/50 percent which is not too hard in CO. In most locations one wants to remove humidity but not in CO.
You will absolutely need humidification in Denver, I’d highly recommend you consider a wine guardian system, it’s easy to add humidification using this equipment and install and support is about as good as it gets. This should be easily installed by a local contractor. Find a local contractor to build the room, pay for spray foam, make sure it is well sealed and you use an exterior door and you will be set. Lots of cheap steel racks at home depot/amazon/etc, my preference would be the wire bakers type.
Welcome to Denver! Just be careful with whoever you end up using, there are a lot of people who say they know what they’re doing and they really don’t. That goes for construction in general.
Also, the Vineyard wine shop is a great spot, Applejack might have the best selection.
Funny you say that about construction. I’m finding some odd problems with our newish house that seem pretty basic like the way some of the doors were hung… will keep my eyes open.
I agree with you on Applejack. They have kept me supplied with Chianti during the transition. I’ll definitely check out the Vineyard.
Ha, that is not a surprise. Though if that’s your only issue I’d say it’s a win! I just wrote a lengthy list of restaurant recommendations for a friend, if you want I’m happy to send them to you. That goes for anything in the Denver area - always happy to point in the right direction.
Welcome to Denver Patrick. I live in the south Denver area and tackled this exact project last year…a industrial storage area for wine that would hold around 750 bottles, not for looks, tasting room, etc. If you are lucky enough to have a subterranean basement area or closet like I was, you may be satisfied with just humidification. I followed Dr. Gold’s book as suggested here on WB with a heavy plastic vapor barrier and board insulation. I used steel shelves and made some wine racks. Filled in all the other spaces with weinboxes. A simple ultrasonic humidifier easily keeps the humidity around 60-70%. I followed temps all year ranging from about 49° to 64°. Sorry I don’t have a suggestion for GC as this was a DIY project. Good luck!
Max S, we need to get some offlines going in Denver after Covid settles down. Quite a few people from Denver area posting on here it seems like.
As long as you’re okay having a lightweight around I’m game! I searched the offline section a while back and it looks like some people have gotten together once or twice. I always worry that I won’t bring the right wine to these things. Almost all of my collection is good value in the sub-$30 range, though maybe 20-30 bottles are a bit more nerdy.
Ah, the doors… and the wood floors installed before allowing the material to acclimate to the humidity. I will try to appreciate the rustic feel they add. I would love to have your list of restaurants, please.
Jonathan,
Thanks very much for sharing your project. That is exactly the kind of space I am shooting for. I have Gold’s book. It will arrive with the rest of our stuff. I’ll check it out again whenever it shows up.
I have a walkout basement facing southeast, the back is below grade, and we’re at 7400’ so there is a lot of potential. Unfortunately, the space that is the leading candidate is next to the furnace. Hopefully, a well-insulated wall will deal with that.
Thanks for sharing your room’s temperature range. Passive cellars have been around for centuries without equipment to maintain an artificially tight range of a couple degrees. I’m OK with temperature shifts as long as they are gradual. I should be patient and establish the natural range for my own project before diving in on a cooling unit but that would mean being separated from my stash for a year. Painful but probably the right thing to do.
Last time I went to Applejack they had things displayed alphabetically. Do they still do that? Always thought that was crazy. Can’t just browse Cabs. You needed to know a name and then try and find it amongst Pinots, Syrahs, etc.
Total Wine has a good euro selection and it’s arranged by appellation.
Oof. Well, here are some restaurants to eat (and drink) your sorrows away. I wrote these for a friend if some of the notes seem weird, that’s probably why. I believe they are all good value options, whether it’s $5 for a sandwich or $125 for a set menu. If you want to PM me your hood I can offer you some more personalized options. This list isn’t exhaustive and I think there are other good restaurants in Denver. I also haven’t tried many of these since COVID started.
Italian
Barolo Grill: Italian, great pasta
Quality Italian: Same as the NY restaurant of the same name. Initially very impressed, I’ve become less so, and this might belong in the things to skip section at the bottom. Still a solid steakhouse with an Italian twist if that’s what you’re looking for
Dio Mio: great pasta, casual place. Dine in, don’t get it to go. Serious quality deterioration
Chow Morso Osteria: Barolo’s downtown sister restaurant. I like the original better, but I think it’s still a solid option
Bar Dough: used to be my favorite restaurant in Denver, still enjoy it but it’s outclassed
Breakfast
Onefold: Bacon fried rice, everything else is delicious too
Denver Biscuit Co: delicious, and heavy. multiple locations in Denver
Devil’s Food Bakery: One of the, if not the best bakery in Denver.
The Cookery at Myrtle Hill: Devil’s Food’s restaurant counterpart, currently closed. Best chicken and waffles in Denver
Rosenbergs: best bagel in Denver, also available at Stanley Market (and easier to pick up from)
Wooden Spoon: solid bakery
Dessert
Highpoint Creamery: try the cookies 3 ways ice cream. Or any flavor. Really all of the flavors
Little Man Ice Cream: everyone talks about this spot, I think High Point is better.
Pizza
Cart Driver: best pizza in Denver (Neapolitan style)
Blue Pan Pizza: Detroit style, but they also have Chicago/NY
White Pie: Decent pizza, convenient location relative to Cart Driver
Asian
Hop Alley: Chinese, maybe the best in Denver
Q House: other best Chinese, but more Asian fusion. much closer than Hop Alley
Fortune Wok: They make 2 things: dumplings and street noodles. Get them both and share them
ChoLon Bistro: 2 things: happy hour and soup dumplings. Don’t discount it any time of day or night
New Saigon: Best Vietnamese, a Denver staple and must visit
Savory Vietnam: Close 2nd for Vietnamese, if not tied
Farmhouse Thai: the only truly good Thai food in Denver. Try the Kao Soi
Vinh Xuong Bakery: best banh mi. The one off Federal and Alameda is still like $6 for a sandwich, the one in Zeppelin Station I think is $10 or $12
Uncle: best ramen I’ve had in Denver. Prepare to wait a couple hours.
Sushi
Park Hill Sushi / Cherry Hills Sushi: you’re not in California anymore Dorothy, prepare for sushi disappointment. This is usually palatable and convenient
Sushi Den: best value sushi in Denver (not cheap by Denver standards, just good sushi at a good price)
Izakaya Den: same as above, just down the block from Sushi Den
Other
Beckon: in my opinion a Michelin star experience. It’s a must-try and my favorite restaurant in Denver
Safta: best Israeli / Middle Eastern food in Denver. Upscale.
Steuben’s: casual fare, but very well done.
Post Chicken and Waffles: solid chicken and waffles
Work and Class: They do meat well, cool / casual spot
El Taco de Mexico: you don’t pay for much, but you get a whole lot
El Five: Spanish restaurant with 360 degree views of Denver/the mountains
HIGHLY RATED THINGS TO SKIP:
Matsuhisa: go to Sushi Den, almost the same quality. Maybe stop in and get the cod lettuce wraps. Service does not match up with price point in my experience.
Il Posto: way overpriced for Denver and for what they do. I think the food is good, but the value proposition is weak
Julep: unimpressed on both visits
Osteria Marco: I think it’s fine, but with Barolo as an option I’d never end up here. This is effectively how I feel about all of the Bonnano concepts. For some people they are a good option. They’re an “upper-middle class” restaurant - inoffensive but good.
Tamaki Den: owned by Sushi Den, in the Source hotel. Unhappy with my experience.
Snooze: Denver staple, solid breakfast. The lines are a deal breaker. If there’s no line, you’re golden.
I should have noted Total Wine, I’ve been going there more and more - much more convenient for me since we’re in the Congress Park/Hilltop/Mayfair area. Honestly I browse Applejack and never really paid attention to how they were organized beyond regionally. That may be because I’m still very much in my wine infancy…
Nice list or restaurants there. Sure wish we
could go out. We’re at the south end of Cherry Creek State Park. Would love to have more OL’s in Denver.
Patrick must be up in the foothills at 7400 ft!
If you can insulate away from the furnace, this really sounds ideal. Just have to add humidity. The temperature change in my space is quite gradual and I’m ok with it. Just have to build to your comfort level. Wine Guardian is new to me also and looks to have some nice products.
A little thread drift here but…
I couldn’t agree more with your restaurant recommendations. Love Barolo grill. Headed there for my bday next week, a special night out kind of occasion. I’ll second Hop alley, blue pan, beckon, and work & class. As far as offlines go, I’ve never done one and wouldn’t know what to bring either. I’d probably think about it for a week; I’m 36, new-ish into wine and am just trying to expand my horizons. It’s just wine, can’t stress too much about it
33 and also relatively new into wine (maybe 4 years, but really 1-2 more seriously). My journey’s primary purpose started as finding the best bang for my buck rather than diving into any specific region, but has slowly moved that way. The biggest problem is trying a lot of similar wines next to each other to find the differences and it’s tough to do that without offlines. I’m sure one day quarantine will be lifted and we’ll all be able to put our heads together on a gathering!
I’ve got about 20 years on you guys but started this “hobby” in my early 40s. You’re ahead of where I was and you are going about it the right way, IMO. Anybody with big $ can buy a 1st growth Bordeaux or Bonnes Mares. You gotta know stuff to drink well below $40. Getting to know stuff is the fun part but takes time. Most people with big $ don’t have the time to get to know stuff. Relish that.
I went to a few offlines while I was in the SF Bay Area. They were fun learning experiences and I tried to bring juice that I thought was worth learning about. Price was irrelevant. I’d choose things like Sonoma Zinfandel that required cellaring, great Freisa from Piemonte, or Xinomavro from Naoussa that would give a good Nebbiolo a run for its money.
Just so you know where I’m coming from, in the wine world I think there are 2 types of people; “wine people” (this wine is great!) and “food and wine people” (1 + 1 > 2). I’m a food and wine person. Wine people focus on the juice and chase “perfect” wines that are beautifully balanced and stand nicely on their own. In broad strokes, this aligns with most New World wine making. “Food and wine people” chase wines that complement what they are eating. Again, in broad strokes, this aligns with Old World wine making. Those wines do not stand well on their own in the New World sense. They lack and/or have an abundance of something that is balanced out by food. I attended a wine dinner with Aldo Vacca from Produttori del Barbaresco years ago. He explained that PdB’s wines are the kind you drink with “your legs under a dinner table, not under a bar” which pretty much nails it.
For a real-time example: Malbec. As I type, I am enjoying a glass of Zuccardi 18 Concreto from Mendoza, Argentina that I picked up at Applejack for ~$35 with some dark chocolate. Great juice! The wine is still pretty tannic but a balanced experience with a bit of chocolate. OTOH, when I worked at a big wine shop in San Jose 13 years ago, a customer came in and said, “I’m making a cassoulet. What should I drink with it?” I grabbed a bottle of Cahors and said, “You’ll want this bottle of tannins to go with that pot of fat.” Same grape. Different experience.
Another example. I bought a bottle of Lopez de Heredia Rioja Blanco Gravonia on a whim. When I opened and tasted it, it was repulsive! Tasted like spit to me. But there happened to be a plate of sliced jamon serrano on the table. Together . The spouse and I drained the bottle and cleaned the plate in a flash.
That is the magic and mystery of rotten grape juice!
I would love to have your list of restaurants, please.![[tease.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/c/c5b32b76bebaa359b0452ae247b61189ffe5fa7e.gif "tease"){kind=small}
. The spouse and I drained the bottle and cleaned the plate in a flash.