Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

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Alexander Smith
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Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#1 Post by Alexander Smith » October 17th, 2020, 7:11 am

Hi,

So I was going to buy the BiLD 3000 and throw it in the Garage, however with a comment from the wife that 'It looks like a jail' along with looking at other indoor wine cellar designs I have started the hopefully not too long journey of converting our bathroom downstairs to a Wine Cellar. My biggest concern like most was the cooling system. The bathroom is 10ft x 7ft x 7ft. There is a fan which brings air from the bathroom. Another aspect is that I live in Quebec, hence winters here can get to -35*C outside, my guess is that it does not go directly outside, yet again I need to work that out.

- A forced air system would not be ideal since the two adjacent rooms are living spaces, and the third space is a closed closet where the sump pump is located, we could probably throw the air in there but I am worried about how large this adjacent room needs to be, any thoughts on this?
- A Ducted unit seems like a good option since we already have a duct from the fan in the bathroom, I am struggling to see the downside of this option for now...
- A split system - I am guessing this is ideal especially a ducted version due to the enhanced control, however it seems significantly more expensive vs a ducted system and I can't work out the true advantages.

Any guidance on the above would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Alex
Wines by Alexander: Quebec Promotional Agent focusing on Premium New World Wines: Bevan Cellars, Dalla Valle, Dana Estates, Spottswoode, Three Sticks, Moss Wood, Dutton Goldfield and Groth.

Michael_D
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#2 Post by Michael_D » October 17th, 2020, 9:24 am

You space isn't so large that you can't just use one of the smaller "through the wall" cooling units. They are typically placed over the door. Same type you find in the stand alone cabinet cellars. I used one from KoolR. They are very inexpensive and work well. Cheap enough to buy two or three to have a "spare" on hand. There are several other brands as well.
D - Drew

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#3 Post by z_hart » October 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm

As mentioned above, might look into a ‘thru the wall’ unit. We converted an interior walk in closet into a walk-in wine cellar with a CellarPro1800. It pulls ambient air from an interior room via a duct and dumps hot air out via another duct. The unit itself is self contained inside the wine cellar so little to no sound outside the room.

Are you keeping the toilet in there for the ultimate man throne? champagne.gif
z a c h

Alexander Smith
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#4 Post by Alexander Smith » October 17th, 2020, 3:55 pm

z_hart wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm
As mentioned above, might look into a ‘thru the wall’ unit. We converted an interior walk in closet into a walk-in wine cellar with a CellarPro1800. It pulls ambient air from an interior room via a duct and dumps hot air out via another duct. The unit itself is self contained inside the wine cellar so little to no sound outside the room.

Are you keeping the toilet in there for the ultimate man throne? champagne.gif
Reading up on the 'thru the wall' unit I was worried about the noise and the quality of the stable temperature/humidity level. I also thought the unit made quite a bit of noise outside? How much space is required in the side room? It would be next to the sump pump. Also The bathroom would hold around 800-1000 bottles so would a thru the wall be sufficient? Maybe I am overthinking this, however I want to ensure humidity and temperature are always consistent. I also read that it is a bitch to change, is this true?

Note: I have never seen a cellar with a toilet in ;)
Wines by Alexander: Quebec Promotional Agent focusing on Premium New World Wines: Bevan Cellars, Dalla Valle, Dana Estates, Spottswoode, Three Sticks, Moss Wood, Dutton Goldfield and Groth.

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#5 Post by z_hart » October 17th, 2020, 4:08 pm

Noise is super low. My cellar is insulated with closed cell spray foam, which also helps with the noise.

Quality of temp is super stable. My temp monitor varies by about 2-3 degrees, so the bottles are even less. And, I’ve never had an issue with humidity, but in a dry climate you might need to add some humidity.

Mine is mounted up top, which is great because it’s out of the way and pushes cold air from the top down, creating an even more even temp.

BUT, you hit the nail on the head, it’s a bitch to change, much of the reason is because of how mine is mounted. I’m actually in the process of that right now. Old unit is sitting on the floor waiting on new unit.

Other than the recent issue, my CellarPro has been great. They (CellarPro) will also help you size your unit, which was helpful when I was building out my cellar.
z a c h

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#6 Post by Alexander Smith » October 18th, 2020, 5:17 am

That is good information about the noise, Luckily in Quebec we have more of a humid than dry climate, yet with a duct already installed in the bathroom due to the fan would it not be more practical to install a split system, I know more $$$...
Wines by Alexander: Quebec Promotional Agent focusing on Premium New World Wines: Bevan Cellars, Dalla Valle, Dana Estates, Spottswoode, Three Sticks, Moss Wood, Dutton Goldfield and Groth.

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#7 Post by z_hart » October 18th, 2020, 6:22 am

Split system is more expensive, but if i would have had the space, I would have gone that route. Larger capacity, more options for mounting and MUCH easier to change out.
z a c h

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#8 Post by Josh Grossman » October 18th, 2020, 6:39 am

Any chance you have a basement? That should be far enough north for a passive cellar with some insulation?
Alexander Smith wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:11 am
Hi,

So I was going to buy the BiLD 3000 and throw it in the Garage, however with a comment from the wife that 'It looks like a jail' along with looking at other indoor wine cellar designs I have started the hopefully not too long journey of converting our bathroom downstairs to a Wine Cellar. My biggest concern like most was the cooling system. The bathroom is 10ft x 7ft x 7ft. There is a fan which brings air from the bathroom. Another aspect is that I live in Quebec, hence winters here can get to -35*C outside, my guess is that it does not go directly outside, yet again I need to work that out.

- A forced air system would not be ideal since the two adjacent rooms are living spaces, and the third space is a closed closet where the sump pump is located, we could probably throw the air in there but I am worried about how large this adjacent room needs to be, any thoughts on this?
- A Ducted unit seems like a good option since we already have a duct from the fan in the bathroom, I am struggling to see the downside of this option for now...
- A split system - I am guessing this is ideal especially a ducted version due to the enhanced control, however it seems significantly more expensive vs a ducted system and I can't work out the true advantages.

Any guidance on the above would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Alex

Alexander Smith
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#9 Post by Alexander Smith » October 18th, 2020, 6:52 am

Josh Grossman wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 6:39 am
Any chance you have a basement? That should be far enough north for a passive cellar with some insulation?
Alexander Smith wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:11 am
Hi,

So I was going to buy the BiLD 3000 and throw it in the Garage, however with a comment from the wife that 'It looks like a jail' along with looking at other indoor wine cellar designs I have started the hopefully not too long journey of converting our bathroom downstairs to a Wine Cellar. My biggest concern like most was the cooling system. The bathroom is 10ft x 7ft x 7ft. There is a fan which brings air from the bathroom. Another aspect is that I live in Quebec, hence winters here can get to -35*C outside, my guess is that it does not go directly outside, yet again I need to work that out.

- A forced air system would not be ideal since the two adjacent rooms are living spaces, and the third space is a closed closet where the sump pump is located, we could probably throw the air in there but I am worried about how large this adjacent room needs to be, any thoughts on this?
- A Ducted unit seems like a good option since we already have a duct from the fan in the bathroom, I am struggling to see the downside of this option for now...
- A split system - I am guessing this is ideal especially a ducted version due to the enhanced control, however it seems significantly more expensive vs a ducted system and I can't work out the true advantages.

Any guidance on the above would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Alex
The bathroom is in the basement, hence we are thinking of converting that to a Cellar, it is just the cooling unit I am debating over...
Wines by Alexander: Quebec Promotional Agent focusing on Premium New World Wines: Bevan Cellars, Dalla Valle, Dana Estates, Spottswoode, Three Sticks, Moss Wood, Dutton Goldfield and Groth.

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#10 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » October 18th, 2020, 7:40 am

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 5:17 am
That is good information about the noise, Luckily in Quebec we have more of a humid than dry climate, yet with a duct already installed in the bathroom due to the fan would it not be more practical to install a split system, I know more $$$...
You need to make sure a split system wouldn’t be oversized. Search here for what other people have done with vapor barriers, insulation, etc.

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#11 Post by Brian Tuite » October 18th, 2020, 7:47 am

z_hart wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm
As mentioned above, might look into a ‘thru the wall’ unit. We converted an interior walk in closet into a walk-in wine cellar with a CellarPro1800. It pulls ambient air from an interior room via a duct and dumps hot air out via another duct. The unit itself is self contained inside the wine cellar so little to no sound outside the room.

Are you keeping the toilet in there for the ultimate man throne? champagne.gif
[rofl.gif]
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#12 Post by Sjmotta » October 18th, 2020, 9:48 am

I have a 1/4 ton Wine Guardian ducted unit in the mechanical room next to my small cellar - a little over ten years old, quiet, and zero issues.
S t e p h e n

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#13 Post by alan weinberg » October 18th, 2020, 11:36 am

avoid Breezeaire.

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#14 Post by Nate Simon » October 18th, 2020, 11:54 am

If you get nostalgic and want it to be a bathroom again, just open a Pegau, and it’ll take you back.

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#15 Post by Chuck Miller » October 18th, 2020, 12:52 pm

Since it is in a bathroom, you obviously have access to water and drainage. You might want to look into a water cooled cellar. Fairly rare, but would be neat.
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#16 Post by Alexander Smith » October 18th, 2020, 3:22 pm

Nate Simon wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 11:54 am
If you get nostalgic and want it to be a bathroom again, just open a Pegau, and it’ll take you back.
[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#17 Post by Alexander Smith » October 18th, 2020, 3:23 pm

Sjmotta wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 9:48 am
I have a 1/4 ton Wine Guardian ducted unit in the mechanical room next to my small cellar - a little over ten years old, quiet, and zero issues.
Stupid question, why a ducted instead of a thru wall since it went straight to the room next door?
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#18 Post by Howard Cooper » October 18th, 2020, 3:31 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 11:36 am
avoid Breezeaire.
My experience is that the smaller units people here are talking about (whether CellarPro or Breezeaire) do not last very long (3-6 years). Bigger systems are better made and last longer, even when made by the same companies. If you use the smaller ones, install it in a way where you can easily get it out and put a new one in.
Howard

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#19 Post by Sjmotta » October 18th, 2020, 4:01 pm

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 3:23 pm
Sjmotta wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 9:48 am
I have a 1/4 ton Wine Guardian ducted unit in the mechanical room next to my small cellar - a little over ten years old, quiet, and zero issues.
Stupid question, why a ducted instead of a thru wall since it went straight to the room next door?
I just went with the unit the cellar designer recommended... no regrets!
S t e p h e n

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#20 Post by Chris Kravitz » October 19th, 2020, 7:56 am

- A forced air system would not be ideal since the two adjacent rooms are living spaces, and the third space is a closed closet where the sump pump is located, we could probably throw the air in there but I am worried about how large this adjacent room needs to be, any thoughts on this?

Do not vent the unit into a closet, it will limit the performance and life of the unit. Typically you want to vent to a space that is at least 2x the size of the cellar.

- A Ducted unit seems like a good option since we already have a duct from the fan in the bathroom, I am struggling to see the downside of this option for now...

You can not use the existing ductwork, it will be to small and will not be insulated, you also need two ducts (supply and return).

- A split system - I am guessing this is ideal especially a ducted version due to the enhanced control, however it seems significantly more expensive vs a ducted system and I can't work out the true advantages.

A split system is always a good choice, the main advantage is it moves the heat and most of the noise (2 of 3 motors) to the outside.
Your best choice would be a split system with outdoor condenser, either ductless or ducted with the air handler in the pump closet. All these should be ordered with low ambient options.

The room must be demoed and insulated and vapor barriered properly.
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#21 Post by Alexander Smith » October 24th, 2020, 4:47 am

Chris Kravitz wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 7:56 am
- A forced air system would not be ideal since the two adjacent rooms are living spaces, and the third space is a closed closet where the sump pump is located, we could probably throw the air in there but I am worried about how large this adjacent room needs to be, any thoughts on this?

Do not vent the unit into a closet, it will limit the performance and life of the unit. Typically you want to vent to a space that is at least 2x the size of the cellar.

- A Ducted unit seems like a good option since we already have a duct from the fan in the bathroom, I am struggling to see the downside of this option for now...

You can not use the existing ductwork, it will be to small and will not be insulated, you also need two ducts (supply and return).

- A split system - I am guessing this is ideal especially a ducted version due to the enhanced control, however it seems significantly more expensive vs a ducted system and I can't work out the true advantages.

A split system is always a good choice, the main advantage is it moves the heat and most of the noise (2 of 3 motors) to the outside.
Your best choice would be a split system with outdoor condenser, either ductless or ducted with the air handler in the pump closet. All these should be ordered with low ambient options.

The room must be demoed and insulated and vapor barriered properly.
Thank you for your response, I have a couple of questions
1) When I spoke to WG they mentioned the reason the split system would be the best option is due to the existing ductwork, the vent from the bathroom, your opinion is that we cannot use this? It seems quite large the duct, what would be your concern?
2) I live in Quebec so temperatures can be quite low in the winter, why do you recommend the low ambient option if the surrounding temperatures of the room are 65F? Is it due to the cool air being brought in during the winter?
3) How 'complicated' is it for a technician to install these ducts? Is it worth ordering them with the system? I am 0 manual so just trying to understand the extent of the work involved

Thank you!
Wines by Alexander: Quebec Promotional Agent focusing on Premium New World Wines: Bevan Cellars, Dalla Valle, Dana Estates, Spottswoode, Three Sticks, Moss Wood, Dutton Goldfield and Groth.

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#22 Post by Chris Kravitz » October 25th, 2020, 6:23 am

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 4:47 am
Thank you for your response, I have a couple of questions
1) When I spoke to WG they mentioned the reason the split system would be the best option is due to the existing ductwork, the vent from the bathroom, your opinion is that we cannot use this? It seems quite large the duct, what would be your concern?
2) I live in Quebec so temperatures can be quite low in the winter, why do you recommend the low ambient option if the surrounding temperatures of the room are 65F? Is it due to the cool air being brought in during the winter?
3) How 'complicated' is it for a technician to install these ducts? Is it worth ordering them with the system? I am 0 manual so just trying to understand the extent of the work involved
Thank you!
1. the existing ductwork is unlikely insulated, you need two ducts (supply & return).
2. the low ambient is if you put the compressor outside with a split system, if you use a self contained system that has a supply or vent connected to the outside (it can't vent into the small closet) it will need the low ambient control because of the temp of the entering air.
3. installing ducts is pretty simple, especially if you use flex ducts. I wouldn't buy them from the manufacturer it will just add to the cost and should be available locally.
3A. the complicated part is finding an installer with experience or getting them to read the installation instructions and following them.
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#23 Post by Michael_D » October 25th, 2020, 9:43 am

Not having access to a crawl space, or above the ceiling when retro-fitting utilities makes it pretty difficult. All the sheet rock, insulation, etc, will all need to come out. Or - build a chase if you have the space for it.

Something else to consider is humidity. If you pull from the home's exterior, and ambient temps range from +80(F) to -30(F), what's the humidity in the cellar going to look like? Seems to me it might fluctuate quite a bit. A cellar needs to have minimal temp swings, as well as maintain a pretty consistent humidity.

Considering the above, do these split systems have a means to control humidity?
D - Drew

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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#24 Post by Alexander Smith » October 26th, 2020, 5:45 am

Michael_D wrote:
October 25th, 2020, 9:43 am
Not having access to a crawl space, or above the ceiling when retro-fitting utilities makes it pretty difficult. All the sheet rock, insulation, etc, will all need to come out. Or - build a chase if you have the space for it.

Something else to consider is humidity. If you pull from the home's exterior, and ambient temps range from +80(F) to -30(F), what's the humidity in the cellar going to look like? Seems to me it might fluctuate quite a bit. A cellar needs to have minimal temp swings, as well as maintain a pretty consistent humidity.

Considering the above, do these split systems have a means to control humidity?
Thank you both for your responses, the duct is connected to the outside which sees sub 0 temperature in the winter, heck it snowed here this morning. I will find a local expert to install this, however I feel at this point I will reach out to them in advance asking for their help in determining which one is right, I will let you know which one we will go with so others can benefit. Thanks!
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Re: Which compressor to buy for Wine Cellar - Converted Bathroom

#25 Post by Michael_D » October 26th, 2020, 9:24 am

I live in Alaska, so I get your geographical/climate related concerns.......It's snowing now. That was one of the drivers for me to go with a through the wall cooling unit. I could have duct work, but decided against it. My next home will incorporate a 'real' cellar, not an after thought.
D - Drew

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