The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

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Alex Valdes
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The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#1 Post by Alex Valdes » October 16th, 2020, 2:47 pm

There are many threads (more than I could go through) which discuss daily (or weekly) drinkers and good QPR bottles. I couldn't find a good topic that covered a situation I've run into when speaking with high-end Burg producers: they tend to drink their village wines regularly. Now, for me, for a wine to be a daily/weekly drinker (I know many have other definitions but for the purpose of this topic I want this definition to be given) it requires:
  1. Can source enough of it to drink it regularly (say 3-5 cases per year qualifies given that you might have a few daily drinkers in rotation)
  2. Be accessible when you open it (could mean consumable young but could also mean easy to get older bottles at quantity)
  3. The price needs to be at a level that can be stomached at that rate of consumption.
Take wines like Roumier CM, Liger Belair VR and Rousseau GC: putting aside the price (CLB is very high), it is hard to source at these quantities and, given the quality of these wines, other than maybe CLB, you probably don't want to drink the latest release immediately (another very debatable point but something to think about).

Normally, the biggest constraint in these conversations in price. I want to put the price high enough (I am saying that is up to $100) that the other restrictions (ability to source, wine profile being a good candidate for simple service and frequent enjoyment, ideal cellar time) actually enter the conversation. To be clear, the goal of this question is to remove (in a reasonable way) the number one constraint on most people: price. I am curious, if price were really not the question, but you still had sourcing and cellaring issues, what would you go after?

I am interested in both white and red thoughts.

I expect the answers will be producers that are more white than red and, if red, more likely Cote de Beaune. Though it might be harder, I hope people try to name reds in the Cote de Nuits.

I hope this thread stays on the rails and doesn't drive people down a path lamenting the prices of Burgundy. Let's see!
Last edited by Alex Valdes on October 16th, 2020, 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#2 Post by Dennis Atick » October 16th, 2020, 2:50 pm

You will get a bunch of answers, for sure. I am a recent convert to Francois Lumpp. Givry. Well under $100 and full of yum. Red and white.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#3 Post by Marcus Dean » October 16th, 2020, 3:15 pm

Dennis Atick wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:50 pm
You will get a bunch of answers, for sure. I am a recent convert to Francois Lumpp. Givry. Well under $100 and full of yum. Red and white.
Yup, I was reading the post and thinking Givry as well, mind you I grabbed some Marsannay from Audoin that fits the pricing but his wines normally need a few years to unwind

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#4 Post by Dennis Atick » October 16th, 2020, 3:17 pm

Marcus Dean wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 3:15 pm
Dennis Atick wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:50 pm
You will get a bunch of answers, for sure. I am a recent convert to Francois Lumpp. Givry. Well under $100 and full of yum. Red and white.
mind you I grabbed some Marsannay from Audoin that fits the pricing but his wines normally need a few years to unwind
I need to do some exploring here. Thanks.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#5 Post by Alex Valdes » October 16th, 2020, 5:09 pm

To give a few examples of wines I could imagine being on this list (curious what people think):

Reds (alphabetical order):
  • Bachelet GC VV
  • Boillot Caillerets
  • Dujac MSD
  • Duroche GC Champ
  • Heitz-Lochardet Pommard Les Rugiens
  • Lafon Volnay
  • Marc Roy GC Cuvee Alexandrine
  • Roty GC Les Champs-Chenys (takes too long to come around?)
Whites (alphabetical order):
  • Boillot Meursault Les Genevrières
  • Dauvissat Forest
  • Heitz-Lochardet MP
  • Lafon Meursault Clos de la Barre
  • Leflaive PM (its 140/bottle right now so a bit over the limit) -- sub for PF?
  • Ramonet CM

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#6 Post by Tomás Costa » October 16th, 2020, 5:17 pm

If I could have several cases of Bachelet-Monnot la Fussiere (white) I'd be pretty happy. For reds, maybe Rossignol-Trapet Gevrey VV.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#7 Post by Sean S y d n e y » October 16th, 2020, 5:20 pm

Lumpp is great.
Joseph Drouhin & Domaine Tollot-Beaut Chorey-Lés-Beaune(s)
Chanterêves Bourgogne Rouge & Blanc
Drouhin Montagny
De Villaine red & whites
Faiveley Mercurey Blanc
Prudhon Saint-Aubins

Like you said: most producers doing good work in the Côte Chalonnaise and Mâconnais.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#8 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » October 16th, 2020, 5:24 pm

Cuvee Alexandrine isn't going to be easy to get in multi-case quantities. Marc Roy in general isn't that easy to get in multi-case quantities. I think if any of their wines would quality it'd be the Clos Prieur or La Justice which are the sweet spots in her lineup. Duroche GC Champ is good, but also, not sure if you're going to be able to buy 5 cases, maybe you can.

FWIW, this is very much my situation where I almost exclusively drink Burgundy and drink a bottle of wine in this category every 2 days or so.

Here's my list:

No vintages, but 15-17 are obviously good.

Harmand Geoffrey Gevrey Chambertin
Duroche Champ
Herve Sigaut Chambolle Bussieres (or Sentiers, or Fuees, or Chatelots, or Noirots, really any of their wines)
Barthod Bourgogne
Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne, Vosne, or Chambolle
Marc Roy Gevrey VV or Clos Prieur
Lumpp A Vigne Rouge
Alain Michelot NSG Vaucrains
Chevillon NSG VV
Ramonet Chassagne Montrachet Rouge (or the 1ers)
Clerget Versueil (or Caillerets)
Gerard Mugneret VR Precolombiere
Jerome Chezeaux Suchots
Bruno Clavelier Combe Brulee
Lignier Morey St Denis Tres Girard

There's 15 choices...

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#9 Post by M. Meer » October 16th, 2020, 5:40 pm

Drouhin Chambolle 1er
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#10 Post by Alex Valdes » October 16th, 2020, 5:49 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 5:24 pm
Cuvee Alexandrine isn't going to be easy to get in multi-case quantities. Marc Roy in general isn't that easy to get in multi-case quantities. I think if any of their wines would quality it'd be the Clos Prieur or La Justice which are the sweet spots in her lineup. Duroche GC Champ is good, but also, not sure if you're going to be able to buy 5 cases, maybe you can.

FWIW, this is very much my situation where I almost exclusively drink Burgundy and drink a bottle of wine in this category every 2 days or so.

Here's my list:

No vintages, but 15-17 are obviously good.

Harmand Geoffrey Gevrey Chambertin
Duroche Champ
Herve Sigaut Chambolle Bussieres (or Sentiers, or Fuees, or Chatelots, or Noirots, really any of their wines)
Barthod Bourgogne
Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne, Vosne, or Chambolle
Marc Roy Gevrey VV or Clos Prieur
Lumpp A Vigne Rouge
Alain Michelot NSG Vaucrains
Chevillon NSG VV
Ramonet Chassagne Montrachet Rouge (or the 1ers)
Clerget Versueil (or Caillerets)
Gerard Mugneret VR Precolombiere
Jerome Chezeaux Suchots
Bruno Clavelier Combe Brulee
Lignier Morey St Denis Tres Girard

There's 15 choices...
If I could have @ed you in my original post I would have. You are one of the few on the board who seems to be in this situation. The thing that becomes interesting is the access problem.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#11 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » October 16th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 5:49 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 5:24 pm
Cuvee Alexandrine isn't going to be easy to get in multi-case quantities. Marc Roy in general isn't that easy to get in multi-case quantities. I think if any of their wines would quality it'd be the Clos Prieur or La Justice which are the sweet spots in her lineup. Duroche GC Champ is good, but also, not sure if you're going to be able to buy 5 cases, maybe you can.

FWIW, this is very much my situation where I almost exclusively drink Burgundy and drink a bottle of wine in this category every 2 days or so.

Here's my list:

No vintages, but 15-17 are obviously good.

Harmand Geoffrey Gevrey Chambertin
Duroche Champ
Herve Sigaut Chambolle Bussieres (or Sentiers, or Fuees, or Chatelots, or Noirots, really any of their wines)
Barthod Bourgogne
Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne, Vosne, or Chambolle
Marc Roy Gevrey VV or Clos Prieur
Lumpp A Vigne Rouge
Alain Michelot NSG Vaucrains
Chevillon NSG VV
Ramonet Chassagne Montrachet Rouge (or the 1ers)
Clerget Versueil (or Caillerets)
Gerard Mugneret VR Precolombiere
Jerome Chezeaux Suchots
Bruno Clavelier Combe Brulee
Lignier Morey St Denis Tres Girard

There's 15 choices...
If I could have @ed you in my original post I would have. You are one of the few on the board who seems to be in this situation. The thing that becomes interesting is the access problem.
I think the wild card here is whether you like drinking young burgs. If you don’t, then it’s going to be a much more expensive proposition if you don’t already have a cellar of aged Bourgogne/village/1ers

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#12 Post by Alex Valdes » October 16th, 2020, 6:03 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 5:55 pm
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 5:49 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 5:24 pm
Cuvee Alexandrine isn't going to be easy to get in multi-case quantities. Marc Roy in general isn't that easy to get in multi-case quantities. I think if any of their wines would quality it'd be the Clos Prieur or La Justice which are the sweet spots in her lineup. Duroche GC Champ is good, but also, not sure if you're going to be able to buy 5 cases, maybe you can.

FWIW, this is very much my situation where I almost exclusively drink Burgundy and drink a bottle of wine in this category every 2 days or so.

Here's my list:

No vintages, but 15-17 are obviously good.

Harmand Geoffrey Gevrey Chambertin
Duroche Champ
Herve Sigaut Chambolle Bussieres (or Sentiers, or Fuees, or Chatelots, or Noirots, really any of their wines)
Barthod Bourgogne
Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne, Vosne, or Chambolle
Marc Roy Gevrey VV or Clos Prieur
Lumpp A Vigne Rouge
Alain Michelot NSG Vaucrains
Chevillon NSG VV
Ramonet Chassagne Montrachet Rouge (or the 1ers)
Clerget Versueil (or Caillerets)
Gerard Mugneret VR Precolombiere
Jerome Chezeaux Suchots
Bruno Clavelier Combe Brulee
Lignier Morey St Denis Tres Girard

There's 15 choices...
If I could have @ed you in my original post I would have. You are one of the few on the board who seems to be in this situation. The thing that becomes interesting is the access problem.
I think the wild card here is whether you like drinking young burgs. If you don’t, then it’s going to be a much more expensive proposition if you don’t already have a cellar of aged Bourgogne/village/1ers
There is of course that problem as well. Different wines drink better younger than others so it’s the balance of both the wine as well as preferences.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#13 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 3:39 am

To me the answer in most vintages is Fourrier Gevrey VV. I think there are some better wines listed above, but they’re north of $100 these days. (Chezeaux’s Suchots, for example, which is a fabulous wine).
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#14 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 4:43 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 3:39 am
To me the answer in most vintages is Fourrier Gevrey VV. I think there are some better wines listed above, but they’re north of $100 these days. (Chezeaux’s Suchots, for example, which is a fabulous wine).
Maybe the number needs to be $200? I was trying to mostly remove the price barrier for this thought experiment to see what people would reach for. As I started working through options I found a lot in the $150-$180 range.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#15 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 5:58 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 4:43 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 3:39 am
To me the answer in most vintages is Fourrier Gevrey VV. I think there are some better wines listed above, but they’re north of $100 these days. (Chezeaux’s Suchots, for example, which is a fabulous wine).
Maybe the number needs to be $200? I was trying to mostly remove the price barrier for this thought experiment to see what people would reach for. As I started working through options I found a lot in the $150-$180 range.
$200 covers nearly all burgundy outside of the grand crus until the 18 tariffs, so it’s not a meaningful cut off to me.

For example, the Leflaive Puligny village at 150 to me is a badly overpriced wine; it’s crazy for me to even consider it in this discussion.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#16 Post by Howard Cooper » October 17th, 2020, 6:19 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:47 pm
There are many threads (more than I could go through) which discuss daily (or weekly) drinkers and good QPR bottles. I couldn't find a good topic that covered a situation I've run into when speaking with high-end Burg producers: they tend to drink their village wines regularly. Now, for me, for a wine to be a daily/weekly drinker (I know many have other definitions but for the purpose of this topic I want this definition to be given) it requires:
  1. Can source enough of it to drink it regularly (say 3-5 cases per year qualifies given that you might have a few daily drinkers in rotation)
  2. Be accessible when you open it (could mean consumable young but could also mean easy to get older bottles at quantity)
  3. The price needs to be at a level that can be stomached at that rate of consumption.
Take wines like Roumier CM, Liger Belair VR and Rousseau GC: putting aside the price (CLB is very high), it is hard to source at these quantities and, given the quality of these wines, other than maybe CLB, you probably don't want to drink the latest release immediately (another very debatable point but something to think about).

Normally, the biggest constraint in these conversations in price. I want to put the price high enough (I am saying that is up to $100) that the other restrictions (ability to source, wine profile being a good candidate for simple service and frequent enjoyment, ideal cellar time) actually enter the conversation. To be clear, the goal of this question is to remove (in a reasonable way) the number one constraint on most people: price. I am curious, if price were really not the question, but you still had sourcing and cellaring issues, what would you go after?

I am interested in both white and red thoughts.

I expect the answers will be producers that are more white than red and, if red, more likely Cote de Beaune. Though it might be harder, I hope people try to name reds in the Cote de Nuits.

I hope this thread stays on the rails and doesn't drive people down a path lamenting the prices of Burgundy. Let's see!
Many, many threads on value Burgundies. Here are two of the better ones.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=119762

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155013

A few of my favorites in reds up to $100 are:

Villages level and Bourgognes from producers like Hudelot-Noellat, Rossignol-Trapet, Trapet, Jouan (hard to get larger quantities) and Clerget; premier crus from Rossignol-Trapet, Clerget, Pierre Amiot, and Chandon des Briailles. I would include red Chassagne-Montrachet from Ramonet and Bernard Moreau but they are harder to find, at least in the US.

For whites less than $100, my favorite wine has been Bouchard Meursault Perrieres, but this could be a bit over $100 until the tariffs disappear (pre-tariff, I had been getting this for about $80). Others are villages and premier cru Chablis from Christian Moreau and Moreau-Naudet; villages wines from Bernard Moreau, Heitz-Lochardet, and Buisson-Charles, and wines from St. Aubin from Bernard Moreau, Lamy and Ramonet.

Look for wines from the Cotes Chalonnaise from Faiveley, Aubert de Villaine, Moirots and Juillot.

I doubt you will find many of these wines with age on them, except Amiot and Rossignol-Trapet, in both cases this is easier to do at the winery and have them shipped to you by Cote d'Or Imports.
Last edited by Howard Cooper on October 17th, 2020, 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#17 Post by Mark Golodetz » October 17th, 2020, 6:34 am

You don’t need to raise your cost to $200. Try Glantenay wines: you can buy terrific premier cru Volnay and Pommard for between $60 and $80. They are organic, mineral driven and very tasty.

PM me for a place that still has some. I have not tasted any really old ones, but the 2010 Volnay Santenots and Clos de Chenes were amazing, and probably could have used another decade before they hit maturity.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#18 Post by Howard Cooper » October 17th, 2020, 6:37 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:34 am
You don’t need to raise your cost to $200. Try Glantenay wines: you can buy terrific premier cru Volnay and Pommard for between $60 and $80. They are organic, mineral driven and very tasty.

PM me for a place that still has some. I have not tasted any really old ones, but the 2010 Volnay Santenots and Clos de Chenes were amazing, and probably could have used another decade before they hit maturity.
It has been very rare for me to pay more than $200 for a bottle of Burgundy (very, very rare) and I have a whole bunch of Grand Crus.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#19 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 6:53 am

Thanks everyone that has replied. I think I should have asked my question differently (I think everyone is assuming I am looking to go buy at this level which is not my intent). This was meant to be a thought experiment more than anything else.

Asked differently, imagine everyone village level wine were priced the same (say $50) and every 1er cru the same (say $100) but the real world constraints of sourcing and cellar time exist. What would everyone drink? Maybe everyone’s answers are exactly the same but I want to untangle QPR (which, sensibly, seems to dominate most real discussions as that is a big constraint for most of us) from desire.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#20 Post by jason stein » October 17th, 2020, 7:00 am

Seconding the Fourrier Gevrey VV. I also love the Aux Echezeaux. Both toeing the line of $100 depending on your sources but they are delicious, complete wines that don’t shut down in the same way that a lot of burgundy does.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#21 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 7:03 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:37 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:34 am
You don’t need to raise your cost to $200. Try Glantenay wines: you can buy terrific premier cru Volnay and Pommard for between $60 and $80. They are organic, mineral driven and very tasty.

PM me for a place that still has some. I have not tasted any really old ones, but the 2010 Volnay Santenots and Clos de Chenes were amazing, and probably could have used another decade before they hit maturity.
It has been very rare for me to pay more than $200 for a bottle of Burgundy (very, very rare) and I have a whole bunch of Grand Crus.
That just means you have been buying Burgundy for a long time or at the Domaines directly, so I’m not sure how relevant this is.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#22 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 7:04 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:53 am
Thanks everyone that has replied. I think I should have asked my question differently (I think everyone is assuming I am looking to go buy at this level which is not my intent). This was meant to be a thought experiment more than anything else.

Asked differently, imagine everyone village level wine were priced the same (say $50) and every 1er cru the same (say $100) but the real world constraints of sourcing and cellar time exist. What would everyone drink? Maybe everyone’s answers are exactly the same but I want to untangle QPR (which, sensibly, seems to dominate most real discussions as that is a big constraint for most of us) from desire.
So are you just asking what the best villages and 1ers are? If Mugnier’s Chambolle village was $50, I’d buy cases!
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#23 Post by Justin Bonner » October 17th, 2020, 7:35 am

My favorite value whites have been 2012,14 or 17 Pierre Morey Bourgogne Blanc ($25-30), 14 and 17 Louis Michel’s Vaudesir ($60) and right under the $100 mark, Christian Moreau’s Clos

As for reds, can’t get enough 15 Marchand Tawse Gevrey ($40). The 17 Grivot Vosne is pretty killer at just over $70. And at sub $100, gotta go with the 14 and 15 Bouchard Corton.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#24 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 7:47 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:04 am
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:53 am
Thanks everyone that has replied. I think I should have asked my question differently (I think everyone is assuming I am looking to go buy at this level which is not my intent). This was meant to be a thought experiment more than anything else.

Asked differently, imagine everyone village level wine were priced the same (say $50) and every 1er cru the same (say $100) but the real world constraints of sourcing and cellar time exist. What would everyone drink? Maybe everyone’s answers are exactly the same but I want to untangle QPR (which, sensibly, seems to dominate most real discussions as that is a big constraint for most of us) from desire.
So are you just asking what the best villages and 1ers are? If Mugnier’s Chambolle village was $50, I’d buy cases!
Basically as long as it is attainable. The price cap was mostly to solve for the “everything is attainable if you pay through the roof” problem.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#25 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 7:49 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:47 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:04 am
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:53 am
Thanks everyone that has replied. I think I should have asked my question differently (I think everyone is assuming I am looking to go buy at this level which is not my intent). This was meant to be a thought experiment more than anything else.

Asked differently, imagine everyone village level wine were priced the same (say $50) and every 1er cru the same (say $100) but the real world constraints of sourcing and cellar time exist. What would everyone drink? Maybe everyone’s answers are exactly the same but I want to untangle QPR (which, sensibly, seems to dominate most real discussions as that is a big constraint for most of us) from desire.
So are you just asking what the best villages and 1ers are? If Mugnier’s Chambolle village was $50, I’d buy cases!
Basically as long as it is attainable. The price cap was mostly to solve for the “everything is attainable if you pay through the roof” problem.
Yeah, I’d literally own dozens of cases of Mugnier, Fourrier, Raveneau and Carillon, 1ers and village.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#26 Post by PCLIN » October 17th, 2020, 8:08 am

These are my regulars:

1. Fourrier GC VV
2. Bachelet GC VV
3. Dujac MSD
4. Bertheau CM 1er Cru
5. Serafin GC VV
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#27 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 8:16 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:49 am
Yeah, I’d literally own dozens of cases of Mugnier, Fourrier, Raveneau and Carillon, 1ers and village.
Agree on Mugnier. Never had Jacques Carillon only a Louis Carillon 07 BBM and that was really good.

Less of a Fourrier fan than others it seems.

Thanks for this!

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#28 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 8:17 am

PCLIN wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:08 am
These are my regulars:

1. Fourrier GC VV
2. Bachelet GC VV
3. Dujac MSD
4. Bertheau CM 1er Cru
5. Serafin GC VV
More Fourrier votes - interesting.

Never had Serafin. How is it?

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#29 Post by PCLIN » October 17th, 2020, 8:23 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:17 am
PCLIN wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:08 am
These are my regulars:

1. Fourrier GC VV
2. Bachelet GC VV
3. Dujac MSD
4. Bertheau CM 1er Cru
5. Serafin GC VV
More Fourrier votes - interesting.

Never had Serafin. How is it?
There are two GC villages for Serafin, VV is as good as Fourrier but very difference in style, Fourrier is more flamboyant/upfront while Serafin is more reserve with better length and complexity.
Last edited by PCLIN on October 17th, 2020, 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#30 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 8:25 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:16 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:49 am
Yeah, I’d literally own dozens of cases of Mugnier, Fourrier, Raveneau and Carillon, 1ers and village.
Agree on Mugnier. Never had Jacques Carillon only a Louis Carillon 07 BBM and that was really good.

Less of a Fourrier fan than others it seems.

Thanks for this!
07 was.....not a great year for Louis and premox. So you’re pretty lucky! When on, the BBM is spectacular.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#31 Post by PCLIN » October 17th, 2020, 8:27 am

Mugnier CM is out of this world for a village but sadly prices are not so nice.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#32 Post by Mark Y » October 17th, 2020, 8:29 am

$50 - I would buy liger belair’s clos du chateau village.
Y.e.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#33 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 8:36 am

Mark Y wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:29 am
$50 - I would buy liger belair’s clos du chateau village.
Well this was my point: even if it were it would be very very hard to source.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#34 Post by PCLIN » October 17th, 2020, 8:42 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:36 am
Mark Y wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:29 am
$50 - I would buy liger belair’s clos du chateau village.
Well this was my point: even if it were it would be very very hard to source.

About 3 years ago, I managed to pick a couple of bottles of ‘13 vintage for slightly less than US$100/b while wandering around in Nagasaki of all places.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#35 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » October 17th, 2020, 8:43 am

Fourrier is great, for whatever reason I haven’t been as into it as other producers even though on the surface you’d think it’d be exactly what I’d want,
Not sure why.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#36 Post by M. Meer » October 17th, 2020, 8:52 am

Gerard Mugneret Boudots
Mar.kus

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#37 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 8:53 am

PCLIN wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:42 am
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:36 am
Mark Y wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:29 am
$50 - I would buy liger belair’s clos du chateau village.
Well this was my point: even if it were it would be very very hard to source.

About 3 years ago, I managed to pick a couple of bottles of ‘13 vintage for slightly less than US$100/b while wandering around in Nagasaki of all places.
That’s fortunate!

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#38 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 8:54 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:25 am
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:16 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:49 am
Yeah, I’d literally own dozens of cases of Mugnier, Fourrier, Raveneau and Carillon, 1ers and village.
Agree on Mugnier. Never had Jacques Carillon only a Louis Carillon 07 BBM and that was really good.

Less of a Fourrier fan than others it seems.

Thanks for this!
07 was.....not a great year for Louis and premox. So you’re pretty lucky! When on, the BBM is spectacular.
Yes it was a flyer at a dinner with a lot of good wine and it performed. It turned heads

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#39 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 9:39 am

Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:54 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:25 am
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:16 am


Agree on Mugnier. Never had Jacques Carillon only a Louis Carillon 07 BBM and that was really good.

Less of a Fourrier fan than others it seems.

Thanks for this!
07 was.....not a great year for Louis and premox. So you’re pretty lucky! When on, the BBM is spectacular.
Yes it was a flyer at a dinner with a lot of good wine and it performed. It turned heads
IMHO, the Carillon BBM, when not premoxed, is one of the best white burgundies made at any Domaine, so that doesn’t surprise me. The only shame is the price and the tiny quantities (one or two barrels made each year).
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#40 Post by RichardFlack » October 17th, 2020, 10:24 am

I’m slightly confused as to the practical purpose of this. $100 US for a daily drinker is getting up there. I think that equates to about $150 Can at the KGBO. Maybe I’m a pauper but that’s more like a weekly, perhaps even monthly bottle.
Having said that interesting lists.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#41 Post by Howard Cooper » October 17th, 2020, 10:30 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:03 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:37 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:34 am
You don’t need to raise your cost to $200. Try Glantenay wines: you can buy terrific premier cru Volnay and Pommard for between $60 and $80. They are organic, mineral driven and very tasty.

PM me for a place that still has some. I have not tasted any really old ones, but the 2010 Volnay Santenots and Clos de Chenes were amazing, and probably could have used another decade before they hit maturity.
It has been very rare for me to pay more than $200 for a bottle of Burgundy (very, very rare) and I have a whole bunch of Grand Crus.
That just means you have been buying Burgundy for a long time or at the Domaines directly, so I’m not sure how relevant this is.
Is there anything I post that you don't criticize.

In the last year, at retail I have purchased grand crus for under $200. For example, I bought 2017 Hudelot-Noellat Clos Vougeot for $150. And, yes, I buy some of my Burgundy at the winery. But, others can do. There is something out there called the INTERNET. And wines from Burgundy can be shipped to your house using Cote d'Or Imports. And, there are excellent grand crus under $200 in the US. https://www.ansoniawines.com/product/am ... -cru-2017/ [I visited Amiot when I was in Burgundy in 2018 and they make excellent wines.] https://www.morrellwine.com/wines/Rossi ... w90805895b [I love their wines and have been drinking them for years.] So, basically, I am buying grand crus under $200 from the same producers that I mentioned in my post.

If you don't know, ask, don't make an ass out of yourself. Really, I have had enough of your digs at me over the last couple of months and am putting you on ignore.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#42 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 10:35 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:30 am
I...am putting you on ignore.
Whatever works for you Howard.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#43 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 17th, 2020, 10:36 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:25 am
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:16 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:49 am
Yeah, I’d literally own dozens of cases of Mugnier, Fourrier, Raveneau and Carillon, 1ers and village.
Agree on Mugnier. Never had Jacques Carillon only a Louis Carillon 07 BBM and that was really good.

Less of a Fourrier fan than others it seems.

Thanks for this!
07 was.....not a great year for Louis and premox. So you’re pretty lucky! When on, the BBM is spectacular.
My sentimental favorite.

That was right before the generational split so I wouldn’t be surprised if Jacques actually was the primary winemaker for ‘07 BBM. I seem to recall prior discussions.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#44 Post by Mattstolz » October 17th, 2020, 10:38 am

if price was taken out of the equation im sure that Lafon, Dujac, and Fourrier would be my go tos. I would maybe throw in Chantereves because the style is so different that I think it would be a good change of pace. However, this only works as a thought experiment for sure because obvious you cant make this decision in a price vaccuum. im guessing most people's daily drinker is not over $100, so basically what youre really asking is "what burgundy is accessible early and available in case quantities" and not really "what would be your daily drinker" but those numbers are obviously different for everyone i guess!

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#45 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 10:41 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:36 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:25 am
Alex Valdes wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:16 am


Agree on Mugnier. Never had Jacques Carillon only a Louis Carillon 07 BBM and that was really good.

Less of a Fourrier fan than others it seems.

Thanks for this!
07 was.....not a great year for Louis and premox. So you’re pretty lucky! When on, the BBM is spectacular.
My sentimental favorite.

That was right before the generational split so I wouldn’t be surprised if Jacques actually was the primary winemaker for ‘07 BBM. I seem to recall prior discussions.
I've had a number of Carillon 07s (not the BBM) and they've been phenomenal every time (Carillon is one of my two favorite white producers, so not a surprise). I don't know the background of whether Jacques was making the wines by 07, but it wouldn't be shocking - he ended up with the plot of BBM in the split and I think is quite clearly the better winemaker. Francois spends quite a bit of time on his negoce line, so I think it has worked out for both brothers.
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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#46 Post by Keith Levenberg » October 17th, 2020, 10:52 am

I am really puzzled by this thread. The three criteria are 1) you can buy 3-5 cases of it, 2) it tastes good young, and 3) it's under $100. But then we're told basically to set aside category 3, the point is to talk about good drinkers without price constraint being an issue. Frankly that means you can also set aside category 1, since there really aren't many Burgundies south of the trophy level that you can't buy 3-5 cases of if you're willing to shop around and pay market rate for them (though why anybody would want to drink 60 bottles of the same wine in a year is a mystery to me). So all we're left with then, is "Burgundies that taste good young" - is that it?

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#47 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 11:12 am

Mattstolz wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:38 am
if price was taken out of the equation im sure that Lafon, Dujac, and Fourrier would be my go tos. I would maybe throw in Chantereves because the style is so different that I think it would be a good change of pace. However, this only works as a thought experiment for sure because obvious you cant make this decision in a price vaccuum. im guessing most people's daily drinker is not over $100, so basically what youre really asking is "what burgundy is accessible early and available in case quantities" and not really "what would be your daily drinker" but those numbers are obviously different for everyone i guess!
I hear you. Maybe asked too awkwardly. Anyway I’ve enjoyed the answers so far. Mostly surprised by the prominence of Fourrier.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#48 Post by Chris Barton » October 17th, 2020, 11:24 am

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#49 Post by Gabriel Madrid » October 17th, 2020, 11:26 am

A daily drinker for us is more in the $30-50 range, but here are some of my favs that meet your criteria:

Reds:
Perrot-Minot BR
Michel Lafarge BR
Robert Chevillon BR
Pierre Guillemot Savigny-lès-Beaune
Pretty much all of Villaine's reds
Denis Mortet BR and Marsannay Les Longeroies

Whites:
Pattes Loup Chablis Vent d'Ange
William Fevre Chablis
Leroy Blanc
Villaine's whites
Domaine Savary Chablis VV

While we're on the topic, what are people's thoughts on Faiveley's Bourgogne rouge? Also, I'm always interested in similarly-priced BRs, so please let me know of others you think I should seek out.

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Re: The Burgundy (aka $100) Daily / Weekly Drinker

#50 Post by Alex Valdes » October 17th, 2020, 11:28 am

Keith Levenberg wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:52 am
I am really puzzled by this thread. The three criteria are 1) you can buy 3-5 cases of it, 2) it tastes good young, and 3) it's under $100. But then we're told basically to set aside category 3, the point is to talk about good drinkers without price constraint being an issue. Frankly that means you can also set aside category 1, since there really aren't many Burgundies south of the trophy level that you can't buy 3-5 cases of if you're willing to shop around and pay market rate for them (though why anybody would want to drink 60 bottles of the same wine in a year is a mystery to me). So all we're left with then, is "Burgundies that taste good young" - is that it?
The $100 is a fairly random choice as is the 3-5 cases. Neither is a hard constraint nor did I mean ready on the first release - just should consider that when thinking about sourcing a fair amount regularly. Said differently, if it has to be held for 20 years probably hard to always be sourcing 20 years back.

I’ve seen a lot of desire to reduce the question to something very simple like that. Maybe I am over complicating the question, but village and 1er cru wines span from $10 to $4000 a bottle, some of which are easy to source while others basically impossible, with some ready to go in under 5 years while others require at least a decade or 2.

Some people might say “sure I will drink Coche Meursault every week” ok but that will run you $500-$700 a bottle depending on where you get it in the states. And it’s hard to get that much. That price point is higher than I wanted to engage on but a fine thing to bring up. I chose $100 (upon reflection I should have said $200) to keep enough wines in the conversation.

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