Large wine cellar recommendations

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Alexander Smith
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Large wine cellar recommendations

#1 Post by Alexander Smith » October 14th, 2020, 1:51 pm

Hi All,

Looking at purchasing a wine cellar around 350-500 bottles or so, will probably buy two, as I can't really build a proper wine cellar where I live. Does anyone have any recommendations of wine cellars which can be used for long term aging? Is this even recommended. I know Eurocave is quite popular, however any other recommendations are much appreciated

Thanks

Alex
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#2 Post by Eric Michels » October 14th, 2020, 2:05 pm

Alex,

There are many prior threads here that get into the specifics. In short, I'll offer that I have owned Eurocave, Le Cache, and Vinotemp and would only purchase Eurocave going forward. I have found them to be very reliable, very quiet, have the best racking (which allow you to make full use of the space without skipped slots because the bottles don't mesh) and by far the most even and consistent internal temperature. They are not cheap but used ones turn up regularly and, given the reliability and the discount for used, I wouldn't hesitate to buy used.

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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#3 Post by Scott Jameson » October 14th, 2020, 2:48 pm

A good friend has owned a large capacity (~500 bottles, IIRC) Le Cache for more than 10 years. He's very happy with it and it has been totally reliable over that time. He needed something that looked like a piece of nice furniture and not a cooler, and Le Cache was the only option he could find.

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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#4 Post by AndyK » October 14th, 2020, 3:13 pm

Check out Le Cache BILD 800. I have that in my garage and it easily holds 800+ bottles. Pretty good price two considering how much large fridges cost, but it is probably quite a bit larger.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#5 Post by Alexander Smith » October 14th, 2020, 3:39 pm

AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 3:13 pm
Check out Le Cache BILD 800. I have that in my garage and it easily holds 800+ bottles. Pretty good price two considering how much large fridges cost, but it is probably quite a bit larger.
Wow this looks nearly perfect! How is the humidity and temperature variation?
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#6 Post by Anthony Sanford » October 14th, 2020, 4:08 pm

AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 3:13 pm
Check out Le Cache BILD 800. I have that in my garage and it easily holds 800+ bottles. Pretty good price two considering how much large fridges cost, but it is probably quite a bit larger.
I just ordered one of these this fall, so I cannot comment on the durability, but I will say that the lead time is quite long, which may or may not matter to you. When I get it (currently in transit), it will have taken a solid two months to get from the time of ordering.

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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#7 Post by JBrochu » October 14th, 2020, 4:44 pm

AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 3:13 pm
Check out Le Cache BILD 800. I have that in my garage and it easily holds 800+ bottles. Pretty good price two considering how much large fridges cost, but it is probably quite a bit larger.
This is what I plan to get. Seems like a great option for the money.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#8 Post by Alexander Smith » October 14th, 2020, 4:44 pm

The more I look at this the more I like the look of it. The only question I have is how does it fit 800 bottles. I am creating my head on this one. I know it comes with some rack but they only seem like they can hold 400 bottles. Am I missing something?
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#9 Post by Anthony Sanford » October 14th, 2020, 4:51 pm

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 4:44 pm
The more I look at this the more I like the look of it. The only question I have is how does it fit 800 bottles. I am creating my head on this one. I know it comes with some rack but they only seem like they can hold 400 bottles. Am I missing something?
Racking is double deep and fits 640 bottles. There is room above the racking for an additional 156 bottles. A friend of mine managed to fit 1K bottles in his so my understanding is that this, for once, is a conservative number.

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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#10 Post by JBrochu » October 14th, 2020, 4:54 pm

Anthony Sanford wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 4:51 pm
Alexander Smith wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 4:44 pm
The more I look at this the more I like the look of it. The only question I have is how does it fit 800 bottles. I am creating my head on this one. I know it comes with some rack but they only seem like they can hold 400 bottles. Am I missing something?
Racking is double deep and fits 640 bottles. There is room above the racking for an additional 156 bottles. A friend of mine managed to fit 1K bottles in his so my understanding is that this, for once, is a conservative number.
This is my understanding as well. 800 bottles counts the racking and the space above the racking. Then not counted is additional space on the back wall to stack cases or possibly weinbox crates.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#11 Post by Alexander Smith » October 14th, 2020, 4:56 pm

Anthony Sanford wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 4:51 pm
Alexander Smith wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 4:44 pm
The more I look at this the more I like the look of it. The only question I have is how does it fit 800 bottles. I am creating my head on this one. I know it comes with some rack but they only seem like they can hold 400 bottles. Am I missing something?
Racking is double deep and fits 640 bottles. There is room above the racking for an additional 156 bottles. A friend of mine managed to fit 1K bottles in his so my understanding is that this, for once, is a conservative number.
Ah makes sense, thanks! Can anyone comment on the humidity of the unit once installed? Does it vary a lot?
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#12 Post by AndyK » October 14th, 2020, 4:59 pm

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 3:39 pm
AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 3:13 pm
Check out Le Cache BILD 800. I have that in my garage and it easily holds 800+ bottles. Pretty good price two considering how much large fridges cost, but it is probably quite a bit larger.
Wow this looks nearly perfect! How is the humidity and temperature variation?
I'm very happy with it, had it for two years with no issues. (I live in SF, so garage temperatures do not vary much, but humidity does)

Here is the temperature and humidity data I've collected over one year:
Image
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#13 Post by Anthony Sanford » October 14th, 2020, 5:09 pm

AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 4:59 pm
Alexander Smith wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 3:39 pm
AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 3:13 pm
Check out Le Cache BILD 800. I have that in my garage and it easily holds 800+ bottles. Pretty good price two considering how much large fridges cost, but it is probably quite a bit larger.
Wow this looks nearly perfect! How is the humidity and temperature variation?
I'm very happy with it, had it for two years with no issues. (I live in SF, so garage temperatures do not vary much, but humidity does)

Here is the temperature and humidity data I've collected over one year:
Image
This is great, thanks! I was wondering about that myself.

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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#14 Post by Alexander Smith » October 14th, 2020, 5:14 pm

Wow this is awesome! I plan to build it in my basement....most people build it in the Garage, only issue I might see is the weight. Also it should be more consistent in terms of humidity and temp. What did you buy to measure the humidity/temp?
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#15 Post by AndyK » October 14th, 2020, 5:55 pm

I use a device called SensorPush that syncs with my iPhone but there are many others that record temp/humidity and sync via bluetooth
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#16 Post by Keith_B » October 14th, 2020, 7:27 pm

AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 5:55 pm
I use a device called SensorPush that syncs with my iPhone but there are many others that record temp/humidity and sync via bluetooth
I have one in both of my fridges and think they are great. Ordered from Amazon, super easy to use.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#17 Post by William Anzalone » October 14th, 2020, 9:07 pm

Keith_B wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 7:27 pm
AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 5:55 pm
I use a device called SensorPush that syncs with my iPhone but there are many others that record temp/humidity and sync via bluetooth
I have one in both of my fridges and think they are great. Ordered from Amazon, super easy to use.
I have a Le Cache 3800 and will be purchasing a 2nd 3800 within the next few days. Based on this thread, I just purchased 2 SensorPushs to monitor each unit. Is the SensorPush G1 WiFi Gateway a necessary add on or do most just use the SensorPush with the phone app? Also, where is the best place to locate the Sensor?
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#18 Post by Toby P » October 15th, 2020, 6:51 am

Anyone know roughly what Le Cache charges to ship / setup? Also looks like the BILD requires some assembly by the buyer, is it fairly straightforward?
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#19 Post by Vince L. » October 15th, 2020, 9:29 am

There's a youtube video of it.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#20 Post by Michael_D » October 15th, 2020, 9:29 am

I'm a hobbyist woodworker. I had planned to build my own cooler, then I changed my mind and converted an area of my house to a cellar. But - I had a pretty solid design for building what I think would have been a great cooler. They are very simple, and it would not take much to build something custom that would most likely end up being higher quality than a manufactured unit. So based on this, I suggest you reach out to a couple wood workers in your location (I'm sure there are a few), and ask them if they'd be interested in building you one. It wouldn't hurt, and I doubt you'd be spending any more money than these +$4000 units. And - you get to pick your wood/finish/racks/cooling unit/etc......
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#21 Post by Keith_B » October 15th, 2020, 5:38 pm

William Anzalone wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 9:07 pm
Keith_B wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 7:27 pm
AndyK wrote:
October 14th, 2020, 5:55 pm
I use a device called SensorPush that syncs with my iPhone but there are many others that record temp/humidity and sync via bluetooth
I have one in both of my fridges and think they are great. Ordered from Amazon, super easy to use.
I have a Le Cache 3800 and will be purchasing a 2nd 3800 within the next few days. Based on this thread, I just purchased 2 SensorPushs to monitor each unit. Is the SensorPush G1 WiFi Gateway a necessary add on or do most just use the SensorPush with the phone app? Also, where is the best place to locate the Sensor?
I just connect the sensor to my phone via Bluetooth and grab the data locally. If you wanted to remotely access data you would need the gateway.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#22 Post by HoosJustinG » October 15th, 2020, 6:19 pm

Michael_D wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 9:29 am
I'm a hobbyist woodworker. I had planned to build my own cooler, then I changed my mind and converted an area of my house to a cellar. But - I had a pretty solid design for building what I think would have been a great cooler. They are very simple, and it would not take much to build something custom that would most likely end up being higher quality than a manufactured unit. So based on this, I suggest you reach out to a couple wood workers in your location (I'm sure there are a few), and ask them if they'd be interested in building you one. It wouldn't hurt, and I doubt you'd be spending any more money than these +$4000 units. And - you get to pick your wood/finish/racks/cooling unit/etc......
Benefit to something like this would also be this individual would also bring the materials into your house and build it in place. Reading reviews of the BILD, it’s apparently more than a little bit of a pain to maneuver the pallet as it comes in, and then you have to move all the pieces to where you want it to “live.”
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#23 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » October 15th, 2020, 6:34 pm

When I read the title and then opened it to see that the OP was looking for something to hold 300-500 bottles I LOL'd.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#24 Post by HoosJustinG » October 15th, 2020, 6:39 pm

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 6:34 pm
When I read the title and then opened it to see that the OP was looking for something to hold 300-500 bottles I LOL'd.
To be fair, 700-1000 bottles is very large in the context of “wine fridges” ... which is really what the OP meant based on saying something like Eurocave.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#25 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » October 15th, 2020, 8:23 pm

I used to sell to a guy who had two prefab units in his garage. They were each the size of an Airstream trailer, built more or less like a walk in fridge, and held something like 2000 bottles each.

But yeah, there is a difference between a wine fridge or storage unit and a 'wine cellar.' We have had some good threads on cellar buildouts and that was what I was expecting to be reading about here based on the thread title.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#26 Post by Chris Kravitz » October 16th, 2020, 4:41 am

Reasons to buy a LeCache....
1. individual racking
2. self contained cooling unit, this is a biggie, if and when your cooling breaks you can easily switch out the unit with just a few screws
3. the company is responsive to any issues and has excellent customer support

Reasons NOT to but Eurocave (I own one, a hand me down)
1. bulk racking SUCKS
2. integral cooling system, when it does has issues the cabinet becomes garbage, I've hauled many to the dump.
3. exclusive to TWE, technical support and knowledge are weak at best, parts are expensive.

The BILD 800 is a great value, you will need a helper to assemble it, expect it to take the better part of a full day. Shipping is $500.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#27 Post by Chris Kravitz » October 16th, 2020, 4:44 am

Michael_D wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 9:29 am
I'm a hobbyist woodworker. I had planned to build my own cooler, then I changed my mind and converted an area of my house to a cellar. But - I had a pretty solid design for building what I think would have been a great cooler. They are very simple, and it would not take much to build something custom that would most likely end up being higher quality than a manufactured unit. So based on this, I suggest you reach out to a couple wood workers in your location (I'm sure there are a few), and ask them if they'd be interested in building you one. It wouldn't hurt, and I doubt you'd be spending any more money than these +$4000 units. And - you get to pick your wood/finish/racks/cooling unit/etc......
Not going to happen a cooling unit and kit racking will exceed $4k w/o labor.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#28 Post by Toby P » October 16th, 2020, 4:56 am

Chris Kravitz wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 4:41 am
Reasons to buy a LeCache....
1. individual racking
2. self contained cooling unit, this is a biggie, if and when your cooling breaks you can easily switch out the unit with just a few screws
3. the company is responsive to any issues and has excellent customer support

Reasons NOT to but Eurocave (I own one, a hand me down)
1. bulk racking SUCKS
2. integral cooling system, when it does has issues the cabinet becomes garbage, I've hauled many to the dump.
3. exclusive to TWE, technical support and knowledge are weak at best, parts are expensive.

The BILD 800 is a great value, you will need a helper to assemble it, expect it to take the better part of a full day. Shipping is $500.
Thanks for the replies Chris! Definitely need to factor in that shipping + assembly
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#29 Post by Howard Cooper » October 16th, 2020, 4:59 am

Chris Kravitz wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 4:44 am
Michael_D wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 9:29 am
I'm a hobbyist woodworker. I had planned to build my own cooler, then I changed my mind and converted an area of my house to a cellar. But - I had a pretty solid design for building what I think would have been a great cooler. They are very simple, and it would not take much to build something custom that would most likely end up being higher quality than a manufactured unit. So based on this, I suggest you reach out to a couple wood workers in your location (I'm sure there are a few), and ask them if they'd be interested in building you one. It wouldn't hurt, and I doubt you'd be spending any more money than these +$4000 units. And - you get to pick your wood/finish/racks/cooling unit/etc......
Not going to happen a cooling unit and kit racking will exceed $4k w/o labor.
But a better and more expensive cooling unit (esp. a two part system) will do better and last longer than the smaller cooling units in the manufactured units that have to be replaced every few years. The hidden cost in many of the manufactured units is the constant need to replace cooling units.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#30 Post by Michael_D » October 16th, 2020, 9:09 am

Chris Kravitz wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 4:44 am
Michael_D wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 9:29 am
I'm a hobbyist woodworker. I had planned to build my own cooler, then I changed my mind and converted an area of my house to a cellar. But - I had a pretty solid design for building what I think would have been a great cooler. They are very simple, and it would not take much to build something custom that would most likely end up being higher quality than a manufactured unit. So based on this, I suggest you reach out to a couple wood workers in your location (I'm sure there are a few), and ask them if they'd be interested in building you one. It wouldn't hurt, and I doubt you'd be spending any more money than these +$4000 units. And - you get to pick your wood/finish/racks/cooling unit/etc......
Not going to happen a cooling unit and kit racking will exceed $4k w/o labor.
Are you a wood worker?

A small "through the wall" cooling unit can be bought for less than $1000. I machined the wood for my cellar racks and assembled them. All alder. Two days work, and less than $100 in wood. The wall / floor / lid will be a sandwiched 2" HD foam board, between 1/4" ply and edged / trim with 3/4 hard wood. Maybe $500 in materials. Couple more days to machine and assemble...... Like I said, it's worth asking.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#31 Post by James Mc » October 16th, 2020, 11:31 am

Michael - do you have any pictures of what you built? Curious to see.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#32 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » October 16th, 2020, 7:28 pm

Michael,

You might want to take a look at Chris's signature line. He builds cellars for a living. Honestly I came to the thread to see if he'd replied yet as I was going to recommend him for a 'large wine cellar' buildout as the thread title suggested.
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#33 Post by Michael_D » October 17th, 2020, 10:21 am

James Mc wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 11:31 am
Michael - do you have any pictures of what you built? Curious to see.
I'll try...... I'm new to this site. I build things when I'm not working for a paycheck - homes and buildings, furniture, whatever..... I built the house I live in now. I had intended to have a small, second kitchen in the lowest level of the house, but got the wine bug and converted this space into the cellar. It holds around 1200 bottles now. I have a few stand alone coolers as well, so I'm definitely learning what not to do as I figure this out. My next house will have a 3000 bottle cellar. I'll be seeking professional advise for the next cellar. I'm actually drafting the next house now (my semi-retirement home). I want the next cellar to be walk in, with a nice table / sitting area for wine tastings with friends.

Original space:
Image

I started out with S3S alder boards, then machined them to the sizes I needed. Then I just built jigs for mass assembly.

Image
Image
Image
Image

The room walls, floor, ceiling, all had to be insulated and sealed. Walls on walls and a second floor. Then I used clear T&G cedar for wall covering. Same stuff I used for my sauna. Then it was just a matter of placing the racks. Not a great cellar, but it was the best I could do with the space I had available to use.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#34 Post by James Mc » October 17th, 2020, 12:06 pm

Nicely done! Whats the footprint?
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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#35 Post by alan weinberg » October 17th, 2020, 2:16 pm

you are talented. Might want LED lights that don’t give off heat. Otherwise perfect. What’s the R value in the cellar?

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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#36 Post by Scott Jameson » October 17th, 2020, 2:51 pm

Michael_D wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:21 am
I want the next cellar to be walk in, with a nice table / sitting area for wine tastings with friends.
I realize this is getting off-topic from what the OP asked, but ... I know a couple of people who have built cellars thinking they would host tastings inside them. That turned out to be impractical, though, as it was too cool to be comfortable unless one was bundled up in jackets and the like. A table is definitely useful for unboxing shipments, standing up bottles before decanting, etc. but a sitting area is likely to be wasted space. I have seen photos of cellars that are actually 2 (or more) rooms - one actively cooled for wine storage and another separate room (at normal household temp) with table & chairs for tasting and dining. Is that what you are considering ?

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Re: Large wine cellar recommendations

#37 Post by Michael_D » October 17th, 2020, 4:14 pm

James Mc wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 12:06 pm
Nicely done! Whats the footprint?
Hi, thanks. It's roughly 7' deep, 6' wide. That's after loosing about 6' in all directions after adding insulation and the cedar. The bins on the right side are double deep. That's something else I want to avoid when I make the next cellar. Convenient to store two of the same, but not convenient when I have an odd number.
alan weinberg wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 2:16 pm
you are talented. Might want LED lights that don’t give off heat. Otherwise perfect. What’s the R value in the cellar?
Not sure..... probably around R20. 2X4 interior walls with R13, and an additional 2" of blue board high density foam insulation. I had to use 4.5" of blue board on the floor, because I have radiant floor heat......
Scott Jameson wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 2:51 pm
Michael_D wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:21 am
I want the next cellar to be walk in, with a nice table / sitting area for wine tastings with friends.
I realize this is getting off-topic from what the OP asked, but ... I know a couple of people who have built cellars thinking they would host tastings inside them. That turned out to be impractical, though, as it was too cool to be comfortable unless one was bundled up in jackets and the like. A table is definitely useful for unboxing shipments, standing up bottles before decanting, etc. but a sitting area is likely to be wasted space. I have seen photos of cellars that are actually 2 (or more) rooms - one actively cooled for wine storage and another separate room (at normal household temp) with table & chairs for tasting and dining. Is that what you are considering ?
Definitely the later. I know what you are saying. We had a wine cave dinner once. Super cool and fun experience - for about twenty minutes. A small'ish room with a glass wall/door looking into the cellar is what I'm envisioning.

I am constantly running out of space. I guess I'm more of a hunter than drinker...... I recently added a rolling cabinet that gave me space for about 120 more bottles. PITA, but it works.... So to anyone thinking about a cellar, go 3 times larger than you think you need.

I used allpliance rollers under the cabinet, then braced the top with some rails lined with HD Polly material to help them slide (I live in a high seismic area, and need to build everything with that in mind).

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D - Drew

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