What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#751 Post by matt d »

Juliec wrote: January 25th, 2021, 4:28 pm I don’t get why people can’t taste it as it develops? People even do barrel tastings so I’m unclear why there is a discouragement of tasting before cellaring another 5-10 years. The main reason to do so is to ensure that you even remotely see a wine evolved otherwise why spend more money to cellar a 10 dollar wine. Every year it’s an additional 20-25% of the original cost that grows. Kind of like a high interest credit card. Moreover it’s another space that could have been used for a different wine. I’m beginning to feel like a heavy dose of sulfur on most of the bottles that may be why someone mentioned headaches, which I am also experiencing with just half a glass to a glass. Decants are needed and I kind of feel the same trace amounts of something in all the bottles. — it’s kind of the same taste and smell. Nothing bad, just the same. I have also be using silver to filter out some of the dissolved sulfur if there is such a thing. I sometimes get a similar but different sensation from Diam closures so it may be that the bottles are slightly reduced. All wines that I usually drink are not fined or filtered so perhaps its that as well that I am noticing.
I have said this multiple time and keep getting yelled at by the shills. We have tasting notes of 2018 of a ton of board favorites
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#752 Post by Toby P »

Are people really yelling? No need to deride folks as shills. I think most of the commentary has been to the effect that it's likely too early to form a high conviction view of exactly where these wines will end up given youth / bottle shock in certain cases. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and you may disagree. I'm sure very experienced tasters can form a solid view of a wine's trajectory a few months into the bottle, but I suspect the majority can't do that with great confidence, and there are a lot of uncertain variables. Regardless, the funny thing is most of the wines have been reviewed well in their present form despite these factors, so it's not like excuses need to be made. And I don't think anyone is saying it's wrong to try them at any time you want; as Juliec wrote part of the fun here is you can try the same wine over many years and given the low price point don't have to worry about "wasting" a few bottles by opening them before they are in their prime.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#753 Post by Jay $$ Winton »

I opened my first bottle of 21 last night. Poured a glass and let it sit for an hour. Very young and tannic but the structure and fruit is there. So far so good and we'll see how it is tonight.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#754 Post by MatthewT »

Toby P wrote: January 26th, 2021, 7:15 am Are people really yelling? No need to deride folks as shills. I think most of the commentary has been to the effect that it's likely too early to form a high conviction view of exactly where these wines will end up given youth / bottle shock in certain cases. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and you may disagree. I'm sure very experienced tasters can form a solid view of a wine's trajectory a few months into the bottle, but I suspect the majority can't do that with great confidence, and there are a lot of uncertain variables. Regardless, the funny thing is most of the wines have been reviewed well in their present form despite these factors, so it's not like excuses need to be made. And I don't think anyone is saying it's wrong to try them at any time you want; as Juliec wrote part of the fun here is you can try the same wine over many years and given the low price point don't have to worry about "wasting" a few bottles by opening them before they are in their prime.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#755 Post by Toby P »

MatthewT wrote: January 26th, 2021, 3:47 pm
Toby P wrote: January 26th, 2021, 7:15 am Are people really yelling? No need to deride folks as shills. I think most of the commentary has been to the effect that it's likely too early to form a high conviction view of exactly where these wines will end up given youth / bottle shock in certain cases. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and you may disagree. I'm sure very experienced tasters can form a solid view of a wine's trajectory a few months into the bottle, but I suspect the majority can't do that with great confidence, and there are a lot of uncertain variables. Regardless, the funny thing is most of the wines have been reviewed well in their present form despite these factors, so it's not like excuses need to be made. And I don't think anyone is saying it's wrong to try them at any time you want; as Juliec wrote part of the fun here is you can try the same wine over many years and given the low price point don't have to worry about "wasting" a few bottles by opening them before they are in their prime.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#756 Post by GarryM »

Decanted my first #40 about 3 hours before the Bills game on Sunday and the wine showed better than my Bills (great season tho). While I suspect the wine will get better with age, adding complexity and weight I thought it was excellent now and we drank it alongside a Rocca Grigsby CS'14. It's clear the #40 is a well made wine and I especially enjoyed the palate of dark fruits and hints of chocolate & cedar; I think for the price it's a fantastic value. I've also enjoyed several bottles of the #16 and while we typically enjoy Merry Edwards and Illumination SBs, this will make a nice addition especially at the price point.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#757 Post by ValerieA »

Tried the FairPlay Syrah. What a nice surprise. Lots of berries a little tannin, but not heavy. Drank over 2 days. Should hold up well.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#758 Post by Rohit B »

Opened an OG66 and gave it a 24 hour decant. Not even close to ready IMO. At least a year if not more.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#759 Post by Kevin Patrick »

Rohit B wrote: January 27th, 2021, 5:02 pm Opened an OG66 and gave it a 24 hour decant. Not even close to ready IMO. At least a year if not more.
This is a bummer. I've been looking forward to trying this wine in a month or so (want to give it 6 months post bottling).

Appreciate your taking one for the team.

I'm assuming when you say 24 hour decant, you mean Cam's "micro-ox" method (decant for 2 hours 24 hours in advance, rebottle the wine and pop the cork the following day).

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#760 Post by Rohit B »

Kevin Patrick wrote: January 27th, 2021, 6:55 pm
This is a bummer. I've been looking forward to trying this wine in a month or so (want to give it 6 months post bottling).

Appreciate your taking one for the team.

I'm assuming when you say 24 hour decant, you mean Cam's "micro-ox" method (decant for 2 hours 24 hours in advance, rebottle the wine and pop the cork the following day).
Nope, I actually put it in a regular decanter overnight. There was significant improvement from what I opened one prior, but it still reminded me of the “TV static” when you accidentally go to an empty channel.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#761 Post by Eric White »

ValerieA wrote: January 27th, 2021, 12:52 pm Tried the FairPlay Syrah. What a nice surprise. Lots of berries a little tannin, but not heavy. Drank over 2 days. Should hold up well.
Inspired by your note I opened a bottle tonight myself, and was quite pleasantly surprised. This isn't your N.Rhone wannabe, you won't find iron, violets, or meat here, but you will find what I think is typical for the region - a soft, red-fruited Syrah, plush, with a nice red berry profile, soft tannins, very nice.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#762 Post by Timothy B a l l a r d »

Opened OG 74 Walla Walla Syrah last night with a friend who also bought a case. He's nuts for good Syrah (best examples are priced better than so-so Cabs for lots more $$). This wine was ready to go- and really shows why patience will provide pleasure. Wine was bottled early last September. The nose on this wine was pure Syrah. Yes it JUST ARRIVED. Unlike the OG38 Syrah that arrived in late November (was bottled week before!) this Walla Walla Syrah showed very well- the 38 Bennett Valley Syrah had muted fruit- nice wine, but clealy "bruised".
At $9 a bottle, this wine would beat any $20 wine on the shelf at COST. Yes you must buy a case vs a single bottle at COST. Share the love- drink some, share some with your friends knowing YOU got that great bargain and they did not. Cheers.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#763 Post by L Harris »

Had the 79 SB tonight. Very pleased but also a very interesting wine. My dad tastes a lot of melon, offset with mint. I get some citrus and a hint of butter as well, almost between a SB and an unoaked Chard. Tons of layers and complexity and really enjoying, even though it’s only 8 weeks in bottle. Anyone else tried yet?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#764 Post by Jay $$ Winton »

Jay $$ Winton wrote: January 26th, 2021, 8:06 am I opened my first bottle of 21 last night. Poured a glass and let it sit for an hour. Very young and tannic but the structure and fruit is there. So far so good and we'll see how it is tonight.
This came together more on day 2. I predict a good wine in a few years.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#765 Post by BrianW »

David Buck wrote: November 13th, 2020, 4:36 pm
Brent Butler wrote: November 13th, 2020, 4:20 pm Drinking a N.29 (Napa cab, Coombsville, hillside; Hertelendy? $18, bottled 7/21). No proper decant but bottle has been opened for two hours. Stuffed shells with red meat sauce is meal. Maybe my best dN wine experience so far. Not qualified to give tasting notes but loving this bottle.
I have been waiting for someone on 29...Thanks Brent...Makes me wish I got that tri-pack from hillside. Reviews are just awesome for Hertelendy if its that. I just got the 29. Guess deft hand is a winner.

"Clearly these are expertly made with a deft hand"

Heads up my buddy owns Hertelendy he's never sold bulk to Cameron.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#766 Post by Mark Morrissette »

There is an active thread going on elsewhere about Jeb Dunnuck's recent Napa report. In addition to a bunch of high scores, he has a really good section in his report on smoke taint in 2018.

One thing that stuck out to me was he specifically called out Atlas Peak as an area to be very wary of for 2018 cabs. And, he says there is a lot of variation from bottle-to-bottle on whether or not it is detectable/objectionable.

One of the dN cabs that has met with highly mixed reviews (I have been a tad critical myself...) on this thread has been #21 , which comes from... Atlas Peak. I can't help but wonder if there is a smoke taint issue there.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#767 Post by Ralph Hertelendy »

Hello Wine Berserkers Community,

My buddy Brian told me about this thread weeks ago and I just happened to stumble upon it today while trying to improve my SEO google ranking for my website. To be honest, I'm incredibly flattered that my brand was discussed so much being that I'm a very small boutique brand, but I'm here to put all of your minds at ease — up until my conversation with Brian, I had never even heard of De Negoce wines. Because I only make 1000 cases of wine annually on average, I don't plan on ever using that business model in the future so you can omit me from all future conversations around this type of stuff. Outside of my own Rockwell Ridge vineyard, it doesn't make sense for me to sell my bulk juice like that when I'm paying upwards of $12k/ton for my fruit (and expensive Napa Valley crush facility fees on top of that to produce it). Just letting you know so that this speculation gets put to rest.

I normally wouldn't respond to something like this (or join a forum just to respond to a thread), but when it comes down to my high end brand, reputation is everything. Because of COVID-19, I made a deal last year that I would have never ever made in a million years...I had to keep my doors open, and with restaurants shutting down and distributors dropping me because of the pandemic, my tasting room getting shutdown because of COVID and then getting shutdown again because of the fires, having my vineyard caught in the middle of the Glass fire (which you may have seen the pics on my social media), etc., times got incredibly tough. So if you saw a deal last year, I'm really happy you got to enjoy my wines at a savings.

Cheers,
Ralph Hertelendy
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#768 Post by John O' »

a half bottle of 08 Cab opened yesterday. Quite lovely. popped and poured #40 Cab tonight. Tannic but really good.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#769 Post by Timothy B a l l a r d »

Thank You Ralph for your post. All the best with your business venture. I have friends who own vineyards and wineries along Central Coast - 2020 has been tough, and very much so for Napa vintners. Cheers. Tim

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#770 Post by Eric White »

Ralph Hertelendy wrote: February 1st, 2021, 1:44 pm Hello Wine Berserkers Community,

My buddy Brian told me about this thread weeks ago and I just happened to stumble upon it today while trying to improve my SEO google ranking for my website. To be honest, I'm incredibly flattered that my brand was discussed so much being that I'm a very small boutique brand, but I'm here to put all of your minds at ease — up until my conversation with Brian, I had never even heard of De Negoce wines. Because I only make 1000 cases of wine annually on average, I don't plan on ever using that business model in the future so you can omit me from all future conversations around this type of stuff. Outside of my own Rockwell Ridge vineyard, it doesn't make sense for me to sell my bulk juice like that when I'm paying upwards of $12k/ton for my fruit (and expensive Napa Valley crush facility fees on top of that to produce it). Just letting you know so that this speculation gets put to rest.

I normally wouldn't respond to something like this (or join a forum just to respond to a thread), but when it comes down to my high end brand, reputation is everything. Because of COVID-19, I made a deal last year that I would have never ever made in a million years...I had to keep my doors open, and with restaurants shutting down and distributors dropping me because of the pandemic, my tasting room getting shutdown because of COVID and then getting shutdown again because of the fires, having my vineyard caught in the middle of the Glass fire (which you may have seen the pics on my social media), etc., times got incredibly tough. So if you saw a deal last year, I'm really happy you got to enjoy my wines at a savings.

Cheers,
Ralph Hertelendy
Founder/Vintner
Thanks for posting Ralph! And good luck during these trying times.

Now that the pleasantries are out fo the way - the source has to be one of your neighbors, any guesses? champagne.gif [cheers.gif] neener
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#771 Post by Rodrigo B »

Popped and poured #21 straight from the cellar. Decanting now, but here are my first impressions on it. I’ll post fuller TN later as I try more of the wine.

Right away on the nose this is clearly a Napa cab done in the richer style. Lots of new oak and ripe black fruits on the nose. Very deep colour, glass staining, thiccc tears. On the palate this is mouth coating. Again, you’re hit with that impenetrable wall of oak common to young Napa cabs. Tannins are there and prominent at the beginning, but quickly dissipate. This isn’t a wine that leaves you chewing it and mulling over it in your mouth for days. Wish there was some more complexity here, especially on the palate. For now you’re hit with tannins, then oak and some ripe fruit and then it’s fades. It tastes like Napa cab that’s trying to reach for a high price tag. Not sure whether I’d pay Cam’s stated $90 price tag for it though (at that price point, I think there are better wines), but pretty good value at $20, I’d be hard pressed to find Napa cabs as good as this in that price range. Will give this some time in a decanter and see how it unfolds. One thing is clear right out of the gate: this needs 2-3 years min. in the cellar before revisiting.

Edit: Update after 2h decant:
After 2 hours much the same, fruit seems to be showing a bit more behind the oak. Some blackberry, black cherries, and cassis. A bit of a chocolatey, mocha note on the nose alongside some mint and some more herbal notes on the palate now. Certainly needs time to integrate and develop more, but not bottle shocked at all. Wouldn’t have a problem opening another one

Overall great wine at $20, probably on the earlier drinking side of things, which if you’ve bought this as a cellar defender is likely a good thing, but give it a year or two to integrate a bit and you’ll likely be rewarded.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#772 Post by John O' »

OG # 61 Zin: Tight and tannic on the pop. Not at all the jammy Zin I'm used to. Opened up over several hours. I like it. Cellar for a while or a long decant.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#773 Post by JonathanG »

Rohit B wrote: January 27th, 2021, 5:02 pm Opened an OG66 and gave it a 24 hour decant. Not even close to ready IMO. At least a year if not more.
66 was awesome on Day 2. Compared to 44, which I had opened at the same timr, it was clearly the better wine although they tasted somewhat similar. Agreed Id give it a few more years.

Tonight was OG54. 12 hrs open bottle in wine fridge. This has taken the top spot in my book, slightly edging out 50. This is a winner. Cams description in the offer is accurate. Great finish.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#774 Post by ChrisWolff »

Had a bottle of #50 Walla Walla Cab last night and it was awesome. Decanted for about 5 hours before dinner and it was smooth and finish was long with red and darker fruit, a bit of bramble and a really nice fruit/acid balance. Very happy with this purchase
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#775 Post by R Scott Hughes »

The Pinot's continue to disappoint. Had a 70D last night and found it lacking in every dimension. I had a very similar experience with 70A 4-6 weeks ago which I wrote off as bottle shock or just too young, and youth may be the case here. Don't plan on opening another 70 before mid-summer. I also didn't care for the only other OG PN that I tried, #48.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#776 Post by G. D y e r »

Took one for the team in the OG n.82. I think a lot of people are going to be very happy with this, especially if they can be patient, though at this price it's fun to track evolution without feeling like it's a waste.

Overall, this is not a style of wine for which I'm generally willing to pay retail price, but I do want to have some footprint in my cellar, as these have a periodic time and place. And the price is right for that gambit [wink.gif]

2018 de Négoce OG N.82 Meritage - USA, Washington, Columbia Valley, Walla Walla Valley (2/7/2021)
While this really hasn't had enough time in bottle, I took a peak to see what's under the hood. Long story short, HOLD. Years, preferably.

Pours inky purple. This 'tastes expensive'. Lots of glossy new oak on this, but not the Bourbon barrel quality one gets from awkward attempts at this style. The nose has cedar and spice, maybe a mix of PV and the barrel treatment being most prominent.

Extremely plush mid-palate, both the black/blue fruit core and elevage makes this feel beyond rounded--spherical perhaps? The impression is of low acidity (high pH), though this could just be due to the shock from recent bottling. There is thus an impression of sweetness, though I'd be rather surprised if this was not fully dry in terms of RS.

The structure is imposing--there is a wall of gripping, chewy, mouth staining tannins on the finish. Mild astringency suggests oak derived tannins. The core is so rich, though, that I see little risk of this drying out before the tannins mature. A decade of age seems very feasible.

Overall impression:
This is a cellar builder, not a cellar defender. Whatever backblending took place, it did not result in a less structured wine. It's going to be best paired with protein-heavy meals, even when entering maturity. Those who like bold, structured wines will not be disappointed. Not my go to style, though this provides great 'cellar coverage' and I anticipate will over deliver given price and years of cellaring.

Not going to score officially, but I'd put this high 80s based on current form, with upside to low/mid 90s in 3-7+ years.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#777 Post by David Buck »

R Scott Hughes wrote: February 7th, 2021, 4:18 am The Pinot's continue to disappoint. Had a 70D last night and found it lacking in every dimension. I had a very similar experience with 70A 4-6 weeks ago which I wrote off as bottle shock or just too young, and youth may be the case here. Don't plan on opening another 70 before mid-summer. I also didn't care for the only other OG PN that I tried, #48.
You sure in minority...48 received pretty much unanimous praise on CT...and the ole cyclist loved it. Guess just not your style..fruit forward maybe you dont like?

I havent tried my 70s yet but those again great praise....As they say everyones palate is different..

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#778 Post by Chris Crutchfield »

N.70 has been one of my favorite releases thus far. I actually think it's pretty cool that Cam had 4 separate bottlings instead of just blending them all together. Sure would have been simpler logistically that way. I bought a second case during the black friday sale.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#779 Post by Kevin Patrick »

Decided to begin popping some de Negoce wines as we inch closer to the 6 month mark from bottling of my cases. Beyond satisfying the curiosity of seeing what I bought with these projects and their evolution I told myself I would wait at least 6 months before opening a bottle to render a more fair assessment of this value proposition.

Last night I opened OG 70A, Pinot Noir Red, Chehalem Mountains, Willamette Valley, Oregon
Bottled Sept. 21, 2020

4.5 months post bottling; Slow-Ox 2 hours prior to sampling.

Gentle, floral nose with hints strawberries. Soft on the mouthfeel the wine was thin but creamy with a bit of a spice kick at the end. Over the next hour the wine continued to evolve with muted notes of cherries and strawberries. Not a long finish nor much memorable about the wine. It was wine you would be happy to serve family that enjoys but doesn't know wine. Smooth, easy drinker you would not mistake this for name brand producers selling $50+ Pinot Noir. Overall I was fine with the experience thinking it fairly valued near $20. It didn't make me want to rush out and buy more but also didn't make me think I'm sitting on cases of plonk wine.

My two experiences with de Negoce wines have some common threads. "Soft" is easily the most accurate descriptor of the style. The wines have been thin, easy drinkers. By no means bad wines but also not wines in the class of their alleged pedigrees.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#780 Post by G. D y e r »

R Scott Hughes wrote: February 7th, 2021, 4:18 am The Pinot's continue to disappoint. Had a 70D last night and found it lacking in every dimension. I had a very similar experience with 70A 4-6 weeks ago which I wrote off as bottle shock or just too young, and youth may be the case here. Don't plan on opening another 70 before mid-summer. I also didn't care for the only other OG PN that I tried, #48.
Can you name some of your favorite or preferred Pinot Noir producers/bottlings? Just curious, since if your tastes align to bolder styles of California Pinot, an Oregon Pinot from a less 'solar' vintage may not align to taste preference. Whereas if you like Burgundy from cold vintages, that implies something totally different.
Greg

In that way, he is like cornerback Darrelle Revis, deserving of his own island, Mangold Island, if you will. “That would be a rusty, filthy island where people wear ripped jeans and stay in hotel rooms that are half price,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “But they would serve wine, and only the finest for Nick Mangold.”

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#781 Post by G. D y e r »

Chris Crutchfield wrote: February 7th, 2021, 12:32 pm N.70 has been one of my favorite releases thus far. I actually think it's pretty cool that Cam had 4 separate bottlings instead of just blending them all together. Sure would have been simpler logistically that way. I bought a second case during the black friday sale.
I do wonder a bit if the producer required dN to bottle separately, to avoid having a competing blended AVA-level wine on the market. It's not like each wine was a single clone--but they were distinct enough to think they potentially represented a sum greater than individual parts. Still, I like the idea of having 4 different wines, as 3 is an OK number to have of a wine I kind of like or a wine I really love.
Greg

In that way, he is like cornerback Darrelle Revis, deserving of his own island, Mangold Island, if you will. “That would be a rusty, filthy island where people wear ripped jeans and stay in hotel rooms that are half price,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “But they would serve wine, and only the finest for Nick Mangold.”

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#782 Post by Christopher Dunn »

I have bought 10 cases thus far, mostly cabs and chards (and one zin). Tonight I decided to give N. 17 (Napa cab) a try after a bit of a hiatus. This is a jammy mess of blueberry and rhubarb. There is no tannic structure. Fruit is pretty much one dimensional. I have tasted through 4 bottles of this since release and don't get much here to recommend it. Yes, it is young. But many of us here have considerable experience with barrel tastings and early drinking, and can gauge where a wine is and where it might go. This is flat. And, headache inducing, which seems to be a feature of other de Negoce wines. I have never had this reaction before, so I can't say what the reason is.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#783 Post by R Scott Hughes »

G. D y e r wrote: February 7th, 2021, 3:01 pm
R Scott Hughes wrote: February 7th, 2021, 4:18 am The Pinot's continue to disappoint. Had a 70D last night and found it lacking in every dimension. I had a very similar experience with 70A 4-6 weeks ago which I wrote off as bottle shock or just too young, and youth may be the case here. Don't plan on opening another 70 before mid-summer. I also didn't care for the only other OG PN that I tried, #48.
Can you name some of your favorite or preferred Pinot Noir producers/bottlings? Just curious, since if your tastes align to bolder styles of California Pinot, an Oregon Pinot from a less 'solar' vintage may not align to taste preference. Whereas if you like Burgundy from cold vintages, that implies something totally different.
For PN, some of my favorites include Scherrer, Sandler, and Walter Scott - depending on mood/meal.
R u 5 5 3 ||

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#784 Post by G. D y e r »

R Scott Hughes wrote: February 7th, 2021, 5:06 pm
G. D y e r wrote: February 7th, 2021, 3:01 pm
R Scott Hughes wrote: February 7th, 2021, 4:18 am The Pinot's continue to disappoint. Had a 70D last night and found it lacking in every dimension. I had a very similar experience with 70A 4-6 weeks ago which I wrote off as bottle shock or just too young, and youth may be the case here. Don't plan on opening another 70 before mid-summer. I also didn't care for the only other OG PN that I tried, #48.
Can you name some of your favorite or preferred Pinot Noir producers/bottlings? Just curious, since if your tastes align to bolder styles of California Pinot, an Oregon Pinot from a less 'solar' vintage may not align to taste preference. Whereas if you like Burgundy from cold vintages, that implies something totally different.
For PN, some of my favorites include Scherrer, Sandler, and Walter Scott - depending on mood/meal.
High quality, balanced, generally mid weight Pinot Noir--I'll let mine rest then for a few more months based on your assessment and tastes.
Greg

In that way, he is like cornerback Darrelle Revis, deserving of his own island, Mangold Island, if you will. “That would be a rusty, filthy island where people wear ripped jeans and stay in hotel rooms that are half price,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “But they would serve wine, and only the finest for Nick Mangold.”

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#785 Post by R Scott Hughes »

G. D y e r wrote: February 8th, 2021, 8:39 am
R Scott Hughes wrote: February 7th, 2021, 5:06 pm
G. D y e r wrote: February 7th, 2021, 3:01 pm

Can you name some of your favorite or preferred Pinot Noir producers/bottlings? Just curious, since if your tastes align to bolder styles of California Pinot, an Oregon Pinot from a less 'solar' vintage may not align to taste preference. Whereas if you like Burgundy from cold vintages, that implies something totally different.
For PN, some of my favorites include Scherrer, Sandler, and Walter Scott - depending on mood/meal.
High quality, balanced, generally mid weight Pinot Noir--I'll let mine rest then for a few more months based on your assessment and tastes.
Just to elaborate a bit more, although I don't take detailed notes on my wine I would agree with Kevin's comments above about the wine being quite thin. I also felt that alcohol dominated the nose. I am a bit worried to know that someone is making decisions based on my taste - I only aspire to have the palate of a Yak - but at least you aren't making buying decisions based on my assessment.

Cheers
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#786 Post by Jay $$ Winton »

another 108 last night for the game and brisket enchaladas. Young of course but with a hour or so decant, quite nice not jammy but nice fruit. No complaints at the price point.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#787 Post by Jonah P »

This was already posted on the DN offer thread, so feel free to skip, but I've been told it should have been here, so for the two people who don't read both, here you go. I buy DN with one other guy, we've bought around 80 cases and haven't tried much. Yesterday we decided to do an informal tasting of 12 cabs and the overall results were good to excellent.
Below are spotty notes for the 12 wines. We drank them in numerical order for lack of a better plan.
IMG_7316.jpg
N.17 Napa Cab - Strong yes for all, bold, in your face, but with some structure.
N.40 Diamond Mtn. Cab - Much more refined, silky tannins, tastes expensive and outstanding IMO, but a bit boring compared to 17 for others
N.41 St. Helena Cab - Another crowd favorite, drinks like a classier 17, people kept going back to this one
N.42 St. Helena Cab - OK, the haters have a point here, does have a bit of that Caymus candy thing going on here, but is that a problem? My wife loves Caymus, as does almost everyone who comes over as do I 3 or 4 times a year. If you don't need a case of this in your house, you're way to cool for me and your friends are snobs.
N.43 Rutherford Cab - Solid, but doesn't hold up to 17 and 41. This is the first wine that just doesn't seem ready to drink.
46 Atlas Peak Cab - I think this was thought to be Robert Craig. I've had a fair bit of Affinity and I don't like them too young (drinking '08s now). I can believe this is Robert Craig, which is exciting since I haven't had too many of the supposed source wines here and it's nice to maintain the fantasy of where we think these are from. I think this will be very good, but it isn't right now. Jammy and tight.
N.59 Mt Veeder Cab - Not a crown favorite, but one of my top wines of the bunch for drinking now. Very smooth, just not sure how much better this will get.
N.64 Calistoga Hillside Cab - Seemed tanic and closed at first, but really came around with some additional time in the glass. This drinks like a serious wine and has quite a bit of upside IMO
N.71 Calistoga Hillside Cab - WOTN? Not sure on the upside here, but definitely drinking well today. Another wine that got many revisits after the initial tasting was done.
N.80 Napa Reserve Cab - This was a last minute addition after the two postings about how great it was right off the truck. That was not our experience. We were all waiting for a dud and this was as close as we got. It just tasted like nothing. I am not writing it off by any means. I haven't opened a cab three days after it arrived in ten years.
N.81 Atlas Bench Cab- I think we're all tired, but this isn't getting any love either. Nothing wrong with it, just not something anyone wanted to drink today with all the other choices on the tables.

I'm sorry that we didn't score anything, but if we had, everything would have been in the 90-93 range (based on where it will end up, not necessarily today) with the exception of #80, which we wouldn't have scored. I can't overemphasize how impressed we all were. Cam, if you're out there, bravo. Clearly if I'm in for ~40 cases, I had somewhat high expectations. They have been exceeded. I think it's worth noting how unboring it was to drink these 12 California cabs in succession. We are clearly going to be drinking these often and for a long time. If they all were all alike, that would really get old. There's been some debate here and with my buying partner about these wines vs. WA NDA. Our thought so far was that the WA might be a bit better, maybe enough to justify the higher cost. At this point I am very glad that I have way more DN in the cellar. The WA wines are really good, but at least at this point they taste like they all came out of the same kitchen. That would be a problem for me.

I still plan to ignore most of these for the next two years (yesterday probably doubled the number of two year old Napa cabs I've ever had) and I do think many of them will shut down soon, but as someone who was starting to dread the UPS shipping notifications, I am just thrilled with what I have. I've bought two cases today already. You guys sold me on 135 and now I have to buy the hype when Cam suggests this is the best Syrah yet. I'm a fan.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#788 Post by Kevin Patrick »

Jonah P wrote: February 8th, 2021, 11:42 am so for the two people who don't read both
[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]

My thought exactly.

Thanks for sharing your extensive post even though none of our wines overlap!

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#789 Post by Tom Chen »

Thanks Jonah.

Bought a number of those earlier ones, so good data points.

I actually liked 17 as well, even though the lowest priced CA Cab I have.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#790 Post by Cameron Hughes »

Jonah P wrote: February 8th, 2021, 11:42 am This was already posted on the DN offer thread, so feel free to skip, but I've been told it should have been here, so for the two people who don't read both, here you go. I buy DN with one other guy, we've bought around 80 cases and haven't tried much. Yesterday we decided to do an informal tasting of 12 cabs and the overall results were good to excellent.
Below are spotty notes for the 12 wines. We drank them in numerical order for lack of a better plan.

IMG_7316.jpg

N.17 Napa Cab - Strong yes for all, bold, in your face, but with some structure.
N.40 Diamond Mtn. Cab - Much more refined, silky tannins, tastes expensive and outstanding IMO, but a bit boring compared to 17 for others
N.41 St. Helena Cab - Another crowd favorite, drinks like a classier 17, people kept going back to this one
N.42 St. Helena Cab - OK, the haters have a point here, does have a bit of that Caymus candy thing going on here, but is that a problem? My wife loves Caymus, as does almost everyone who comes over as do I 3 or 4 times a year. If you don't need a case of this in your house, you're way to cool for me and your friends are snobs.
N.43 Rutherford Cab - Solid, but doesn't hold up to 17 and 41. This is the first wine that just doesn't seem ready to drink.
46 Atlas Peak Cab - I think this was thought to be Robert Craig. I've had a fair bit of Affinity and I don't like them too young (drinking '08s now). I can believe this is Robert Craig, which is exciting since I haven't had too many of the supposed source wines here and it's nice to maintain the fantasy of where we think these are from. I think this will be very good, but it isn't right now. Jammy and tight.
N.59 Mt Veeder Cab - Not a crown favorite, but one of my top wines of the bunch for drinking now. Very smooth, just not sure how much better this will get.
N.64 Calistoga Hillside Cab - Seemed tanic and closed at first, but really came around with some additional time in the glass. This drinks like a serious wine and has quite a bit of upside IMO
N.71 Calistoga Hillside Cab - WOTN? Not sure on the upside here, but definitely drinking well today. Another wine that got many revisits after the initial tasting was done.
N.80 Napa Reserve Cab - This was a last minute addition after the two postings about how great it was right off the truck. That was not our experience. We were all waiting for a dud and this was as close as we got. It just tasted like nothing. I am not writing it off by any means. I haven't opened a cab three days after it arrived in ten years.
N.81 Atlas Bench Cab- I think we're all tired, but this isn't getting any love either. Nothing wrong with it, just not something anyone wanted to drink today with all the other choices on the tables.

I'm sorry that we didn't score anything, but if we had, everything would have been in the 90-93 range (based on where it will end up, not necessarily today) with the exception of #80, which we wouldn't have scored. I can't overemphasize how impressed we all were. Cam, if you're out there, bravo. Clearly if I'm in for ~40 cases, I had somewhat high expectations. They have been exceeded. I think it's worth noting how unboring it was to drink these 12 California cabs in succession. We are clearly going to be drinking these often and for a long time. If they all were all alike, that would really get old. There's been some debate here and with my buying partner about these wines vs. WA NDA. Our thought so far was that the WA might be a bit better, maybe enough to justify the higher cost. At this point I am very glad that I have way more DN in the cellar. The WA wines are really good, but at least at this point they taste like they all came out of the same kitchen. That would be a problem for me.

I still plan to ignore most of these for the next two years (yesterday probably doubled the number of two year old Napa cabs I've ever had) and I do think many of them will shut down soon, but as someone who was starting to dread the UPS shipping notifications, I am just thrilled with what I have. I've bought two cases today already. You guys sold me on 135 and now I have to buy the hype when Cam suggests this is the best Syrah yet. I'm a fan.
Hi Jonah - thanks for your notes. I posted this as well in the other thread. I tasted through a variety of the larger lots of Cabernet (in anticipation of our store launching hopefully by end of month) to see where things were. My impression is that the 2018 Napa Cabernet's are still largely tight with moderately expressive palates that had yet to develop bottle bouquet, especially the Walla Walla wines. You can drink these now but they're going to get a lot better with another 6-12 months in bottle. I am not at all surprised and I think it speaks to the overall quality of these wines that they are still largely brooding...as I have said, Napa Cab in a good vintage needs a good year to fully coalesce.
One Chard: N.23 Napa Carneros Chard - buttered flowers, soft palate. Good to go but will still see some aromatic improvement over next 6 months.
N.17 Napa Cabernet - red licorice and rock...showing a bit richer than I anticipated and a little fat on palate which surprised me because this wine has lots of stuffing and was one of the firmer Cabs. Give this another 3-4 months to coalesce.
N.28 Napa Cabernet - fruit is subdued behind the leather right now. Give this another 6 months.
N.30 Atlas Peak Cabernet - oaky and dense with tight aromatics. Rich and chewy on palate with excellent length but it's still pretty tight. Needs another 6 months for bottle bouquet.
N.32 Dry Creek Cabernet- shy fruit, more graphite and white flower with a lovely brown sugar note. Lots of grip on tight reticent palate. needs more time of course...
N.40 Diamond Mountain Cabernet - brooding, concave nose pulls you down like a black hole with just a little red fruit poking out. Tight on the palate, as expected, but the structure is EPIC. Don't touch this for another year. Infanticide.
N.43 Napa Cabernet - Cherry and leather on the nose, red fruits and chalky tannins on palate...not bad right now but a little thin at this moment.
N.50 Walla Walla Cabernet - like N.40...super tight with just a little high-toned earth and brooding fruit...totally ass backwards aromatically and only slightly better on the palate...you can decant the hell out of this but really just forget about it for another year or more.
N.82 Walla Walla Meritage/Red Blend - going out of order here as these are sister wineries. Pungent with oak and brooding fruit, again, totally ass backwards right now. Its a monster on the palate and a bit more approachable than N.50 but clearly still a baby. Give this another 6-8 months.
N.58 McDowell/Mendo Petite Sirah - subdued fruit and a kiss walnut husk...awkward aromatically and on palate...give this another 3-4 months.
N.66 Napa Cabernet (mostly Stags Leap) - warm plum, blackberry and graphite. Juicy and ripe on palate with nice acidity. Pretty approachable right now actually but I wouldn't be surprised if it oscillated again.
N.68 Sonoma Cabernet (Mayacamas elevation vineyard)- pretty tight and brooding on the nose, earthy. The fruit is richer on the mid-palate however and its actually pretty approachable right now. Again, wouldn't be surprised if this one swung around again too.

I hope to taste through a broader selection soon and will report back what I find.

Thanks to everyone for their interest and enthusiasm for this project.

Cheers!

Cameron
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#791 Post by David Buck »

Very helpful..Thanks Cam...yeah if you could tackle more of the 20s high end cabs would be great...Look forward to that...

Surprised Jonah thought 59 drinkable now...that top dog $300 a case wine sounded by description of sale like would need mega time.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#792 Post by G. D y e r »

R Scott Hughes wrote: February 8th, 2021, 9:00 am
G. D y e r wrote: February 8th, 2021, 8:39 am
R Scott Hughes wrote: February 7th, 2021, 5:06 pm

For PN, some of my favorites include Scherrer, Sandler, and Walter Scott - depending on mood/meal.
High quality, balanced, generally mid weight Pinot Noir--I'll let mine rest then for a few more months based on your assessment and tastes.
Just to elaborate a bit more, although I don't take detailed notes on my wine I would agree with Kevin's comments above about the wine being quite thin. I also felt that alcohol dominated the nose. I am a bit worried to know that someone is making decisions based on my taste - I only aspire to have the palate of a Yak - but at least you aren't making buying decisions based on my assessment.

Cheers
Understood. But either the wine is only OK, in which case 3-6 months of bottle age won't change it for better or worse, or it really needs the time, in which case I have other wine to drink in the mean time. No harm or cost to me either way.

2019s are super young and this was probably among the first released, so I'll leave it be but not be surprised if it doesn't come around.

By the way, did you notice the ABVs on the bottles? All of mine are 14.2%, but the release notes varied by cuvee and were around 1% lower.
Greg

In that way, he is like cornerback Darrelle Revis, deserving of his own island, Mangold Island, if you will. “That would be a rusty, filthy island where people wear ripped jeans and stay in hotel rooms that are half price,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “But they would serve wine, and only the finest for Nick Mangold.”

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#793 Post by G. D y e r »

Cameron Hughes wrote: February 8th, 2021, 12:21 pm N.82 Walla Walla Meritage/Red Blend - going out of order here as these are sister wineries. Pungent with oak and brooding fruit, again, totally ass backwards right now. Its a monster on the palate and a bit more approachable than N.50 but clearly still a baby. Give this another 6-8 months.
Thanks Cam!

+1 on this, it's an independent, but succinct synopsis of a more verbose note I left upthread.

It's a good educational experience for those who want to taste a "backward" wine without paying $60+, or for those like me who wanted to baseline early. But otherwise, time is one's friend for this release.
Greg

In that way, he is like cornerback Darrelle Revis, deserving of his own island, Mangold Island, if you will. “That would be a rusty, filthy island where people wear ripped jeans and stay in hotel rooms that are half price,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “But they would serve wine, and only the finest for Nick Mangold.”

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#794 Post by Kevin N »

Christopher Dunn wrote: February 7th, 2021, 4:03 pm I have bought 10 cases thus far, mostly cabs and chards (and one zin). Tonight I decided to give N. 17 (Napa cab) a try after a bit of a hiatus. This is a jammy mess of blueberry and rhubarb. There is no tannic structure. Fruit is pretty much one dimensional. I have tasted through 4 bottles of this since release and don't get much here to recommend it. Yes, it is young. But many of us here have considerable experience with barrel tastings and early drinking, and can gauge where a wine is and where it might go. This is flat. And, headache inducing, which seems to be a feature of other de Negoce wines. I have never had this reaction before, so I can't say what the reason is.
#17 is the bottle seemingly most universally praised. I get that all tastes are different, but most everyone (including me) has really enjoyed this bottle. I didn't find it to be one dimensional or overly fruity at all.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#795 Post by loren.grossman »

fun tasting with some friends, tasted DN 70A, DN 70D and our own Wilde Farm Donnelly Creek Anderson Valley Pinot Noir, all three blinded. Tasters did not know what wines were in the flight at all. Caveat was the WF was 2018 as we did not bottle a 2019 Pinot. All 3 wines were given ample air and served in Zalto Universal stems. All of the wines, including the Wilde Farm, are primarily Pommard clone driven and neutral oak raised, so I thought the comp appropriate. I am guessing that there is also some whole cluster fermentation in the DN wines. They really are birds of a feather.

The results were tallied without group think. All 7 tasters (i did not vote as I obviously knew which wine was which) preferred the Wilde Farm first, DN 70D second and DN 70A third. The grouping was tight; I would say they all three fit in the same standard deviation. Given that our WF pinot retails for $40 and received a 90 point score from AG, I would consider the DN wines to be a good value. I would have scored them 88-90 points if pressed. Further, from the first time I tasted the 70D, the wines have fleshed out considerably and I assume will only continue to do so, as they are ridiculously young. They (the DN wines) exhibited good, clean, bright fruit, the beginnings of some layering (particularly Blend D), good energy on the palate and lovely integration. The depth of fruit and fullness on the palate that the WF pinot exhibited - which also likely drove the preference - will likely come to the DN pinots with time in bottle. I will say that with more time in glass, I actually very much appreciated Blend A - which was initially very bright and almost candied in its fruit profile - as much as blend D, if not more. I think these wines have a future and are lovely food wines for what they cost. Well done Cam!
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#796 Post by Kevin Patrick »

Nice notes.

There should be many more fun experiments with DN wines in the coming months and years as the wines settle closer to a more finished phase than what we have been drinking thus far. And when the reputed source material wines get released the side-by-side blinds should be very illuminating.

Your post also reminded me to follow-up on my earlier tasting of OG 70A two weeks ago (original note is a page or so back in this thread). The wine was enjoyable when first opened Saturday night -- neither memorable nor bad and consistent value for what I paid. However there was ~1.5 glasses left in the bottle when we moved on in the evening and forgot about the wine. The following morning (so ~12 hours exposed to oxygen) I corked the bottle to revisit the wine later fully expecting an undrinkable mess waiting for me. Two days later (Tuesday evening) I poured the remaining wine for myself and a friend. Much to my surprise the wine was smooth, enjoyable and tasty giving me every reason to believe this wine will continue to improve in the months and years (?) ahead.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#797 Post by MatthewT »

Drinking a world famous #2 right now and it's just fantastic. #2! Feels like years ago when I bought two cases of this.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#798 Post by Michael Singsen »

Has anyone else tried the #79 Rutherford Sauvignon Blanc? The offer described it as a "stunning", even "amazing", offering "wave after wave of richness and depth. Glorious." Well, perhaps inspired by today's offer, we opened a bottle and tried it out with friends. It tastes nice, to be sure, but it is kind of watery and never gets close to wave after wave of richness and depth, even after sitting in the glass for an hour and warming up. Did we open it too soon? Are there better days ahead? I drink very little white wine, and hardly any SB, so maybe I don't know what to look for, but so far, not amazing.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#799 Post by Michael Singsen »

On the other hand, we popped a #57 Cab the other night, let it decant for a couple of hours, and had it with a rich and spicy bean and ham hock stew, and it was everything we were told it would be: expansive dark fruit and leather, with a lovely long finish. After dinner, I sipped it for hours, trying to make it last, and every sip delivered depth and little explosions of flavor and complexity. Very glad I didn't share this case with anyone else in my syndicate.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#800 Post by G. D y e r »

G. D y e r wrote: February 8th, 2021, 1:20 pm
Cameron Hughes wrote: February 8th, 2021, 12:21 pm N.82 Walla Walla Meritage/Red Blend - going out of order here as these are sister wineries. Pungent with oak and brooding fruit, again, totally ass backwards right now. Its a monster on the palate and a bit more approachable than N.50 but clearly still a baby. Give this another 6-8 months.
Thanks Cam!

+1 on this, it's an independent, but succinct synopsis of a more verbose note I left upthread.

It's a good educational experience for those who want to taste a "backward" wine without paying $60+, or for those like me who wanted to baseline early. But otherwise, time is one's friend for this release.
Quick update on n.82, based on the 'leftovers' from the bottle I opened last week:
  • 2018 de Négoce OG N.82 Meritage - USA, Washington, Columbia Valley, Walla Walla Valley (2/13/2021)
    From the same bottle as my prior note, but about 1/3 of the bottle transferred/stored in an airtight container with no headspace for 6 days. Since my prior note is long, breaking this out separately:

    Cassis, cedar and capsicum on the nose, beautifully rounded black fruit in the middle, chewy tannic finish. Overall, much more open showing dense & elegant Bordeaux variety character, with the oak complementary. Impressed with the favorable response of this wine after being opened, definitely one to hold with confidence.
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In that way, he is like cornerback Darrelle Revis, deserving of his own island, Mangold Island, if you will. “That would be a rusty, filthy island where people wear ripped jeans and stay in hotel rooms that are half price,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “But they would serve wine, and only the finest for Nick Mangold.”

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