What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

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Eric White
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#51 Post by Eric White » October 8th, 2020, 6:08 pm

Just PnP a OG No. 09 Carmel Valley Pinot - don't feel like doing formal tasting notes, but at $10 bucks/btl (just shy of $13 delivered), I'm (again) pretty damn happy. I don't think this is going to be one to age, but it is drinking well right out of the gate and I expect it will continue to do so for 5 years or so. Very nice.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#52 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 6:11 pm

Michael Martin wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 5:32 pm
Based on what I’ve had. I wouldn’t buy these over $25. IMHO.
Weighted average that's like 2x what you paid! Amazing value then!
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#53 Post by Michael Martin » October 8th, 2020, 6:27 pm

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#54 Post by Eric White » October 8th, 2020, 6:31 pm

the amount of hand wringing and arguing over these (clearly) value plays is just amazing. Buy it or don't. Drink it or don't. Cellar it or don't.

Personally, every bottle I've opened so far (about a half dozen) has met or exceeded my expectations, and that's good enough for me.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#55 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 6:32 pm

Michael Martin wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:27 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:11 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 5:32 pm
Based on what I’ve had. I wouldn’t buy these over $25. IMHO.
Weighted average that's like 2x what you paid! Amazing value then!
Yes, amazing. Or I can go buy an Alexander Valley Vineyard Cab at almost any liquor store in America right now for $22-24 and I think it drinks like $50. And I only had to buy one.
Really confused. I didn't ask you what $ it drank like I said if you had an option now to buy it for more what would you pay for it? If the answer is you'd pay $25 for these wines, today, then isn't that the answer? Not sure what the great QPR of Alexander Valley Cab has to do with it? You'd buy that too? Awesome. Big wine cellar!
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#56 Post by Michael Martin » October 8th, 2020, 6:34 pm

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#57 Post by Rodrigo B » October 8th, 2020, 6:36 pm

Eric White wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:31 pm
the amount of hand wringing and arguing over these (clearly) value plays is just amazing. Buy it or don't. Drink it or don't. Cellar it or don't.

Personally, every bottle I've opened so far (about a half dozen) has met or exceeded my expectations, and that's good enough for me.
Question for you Eric. For the wines that you’ve tried so far, would you pay the retail price Cam noted on the offers for those wines? e.g. would you pay the say $50 retail for a wine Cam sold for $10?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#58 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm

Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.

The merlot is much more elegant than i expected given the notes and likely producer. It has great red fruit, smooth velvety mouthfeel and a dry but not astringent finish. It should be ready to drink relatively soon after a few weeks or a month to settle down.

The n.08 is darker fruit, bigger body, and very dry finish. Some dark chocolate and earthy funk in this. Nothing jumped out at me other than the dry finish. I really had to focus on this to create an identity/note for it. Definitely needs some time to settle and hopefully it comes around, but for now it isn’t striking me as a great value.

This makes three DN I’ve tried in 3oz pours. N.05 gets me most excited for what it can become, but even with where it is now, it is the one I am really pleased with.

The merlot n.15 is solid and will improve, but different than what I expected. Definitely a good value considering price paid.

N.08 needs to improve a lot to be a win. If it is Anthem as expected, I’m not surprised as I believe their cabs need time to come around, and they don’t release them typically until they have a year in the bottle, and the DN have had a few months and just arrived today.

All in all, I’m pleased thus far, the wines are super young, and they literally came off the truck a few hours before I poured. No complaints here. Its been fun to try them.

[cheers.gif]

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#59 Post by Rodrigo B » October 8th, 2020, 6:49 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.
I thought all of dN's corks were synthetic. I was pretty sure you can't use coravin with synthetic closures. Is that not the case?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#60 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 7:02 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:49 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.
I thought all of dN's corks were synthetic. I was pretty sure you can't use coravin with synthetic closures. Is that not the case?
Yeah, its not recommended but it does work. The reseal is not always good, but should be okay. I plan to consume the bottles i coravined in the short term, so hopefully all is ok.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#61 Post by Rich Brown » October 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:02 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:49 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.
I thought all of dN's corks were synthetic. I was pretty sure you can't use coravin with synthetic closures. Is that not the case?
Yeah, its not recommended but it does work. The reseal is not always good, but should be okay. I plan to consume the bottles i coravined in the short term, so hopefully all is ok.
I've found it helps to pop a toothpick in the hole after you coravin a synthetic cork. Still not an ideal scenario and you def need to drink sooner than later.....but it seems to help a little bit.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#62 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 7:09 pm

Michael Martin wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:34 pm
I think Matt is going to argue every tasting note. Have fun folks. Not posting anymore. My input isn’t needed, Adios.
Wow. That's your takeaway from our exchange? Adios? I don't think my questions were remotely offensive. You just can't answer them. On one hand you said you basically thought the wines were wildly overly hyped and not worth the "retail price" and on the other hand said "yah you can go ahead and buy them for a few dollars over what I paid for them" when someone asked if it made sense to pay up if they offer them in a 2nd tranche. I was just trying to reconcile. I didn't even direct the question at you for "what would you pay for these wines" if you didn't know the cost, you just chose to answer. And I thought it was completely fair to link reviews to #1 since you have told us about 10 times you don't like it and I haven't heard anyone else say the same. For a $10 wine mind you.

Nothing I said was offensive. But you've had a problem with me for months so makes sense.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#63 Post by Rodrigo B » October 8th, 2020, 7:10 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:02 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:49 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.
I thought all of dN's corks were synthetic. I was pretty sure you can't use coravin with synthetic closures. Is that not the case?
Yeah, its not recommended but it does work. The reseal is not always good, but should be okay. I plan to consume the bottles i coravined in the short term, so hopefully all is ok.
Ah, interesting. Thanks for that. Do they get much leakage if you lay them on the side? I don’t have much experience with corvin. I considered getting one years back, but nowadays I kinda feel like the repour is a more affordable solution to the same problem with similar results.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#64 Post by Chris Crutchfield » October 8th, 2020, 7:13 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:10 pm
Ah, interesting. Thanks for that. Do they get much leakage if you lay them on the side? I don’t have much experience with corvin. I considered getting one years back, but nowadays I kinda feel like the repour is a more affordable solution to the same problem with similar results.
Yeah, synthetic corks don't reseal the same as natural or micro-agglomerated cork. I would not lay them on their side, since the potential for wine to leak out and stain stuff is pretty high.

For wine with a synthetic cork, I think Repour is a much better fit than Coravin.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#65 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 7:15 pm

Rich Brown wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:02 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:49 pm


I thought all of dN's corks were synthetic. I was pretty sure you can't use coravin with synthetic closures. Is that not the case?
Yeah, its not recommended but it does work. The reseal is not always good, but should be okay. I plan to consume the bottles i coravined in the short term, so hopefully all is ok.
I've found it helps to pop a toothpick in the hole after you coravin a synthetic cork. Still not an ideal scenario and you def need to drink sooner than later.....but it seems to help a little bit.
That is a good idea. There is literally no evidence of a coravin being used on the cork, and no leakage, so I feel confident in the seal, especially for another 2 days or 2 weeks until I pop them for good.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#66 Post by Rodrigo B » October 8th, 2020, 7:15 pm

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:13 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:10 pm
Ah, interesting. Thanks for that. Do they get much leakage if you lay them on the side? I don’t have much experience with corvin. I considered getting one years back, but nowadays I kinda feel like the repour is a more affordable solution to the same problem with similar results.
Yeah, synthetic corks don't reseal the same as natural or micro-agglomerated cork. I would not lay them on their side, since the potential for wine to leak out and stain stuff is pretty high.

For wine with a synthetic cork, I think Repour is a much better fit than Coravin.
Chris, is there situation in which you’d prefer to use the coravin over repor? With a natural cork, is there any difference between them in terms in terms of wine preservation?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#67 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 7:17 pm

Also just to clarify, it looks like these are micro-agglomerated corks.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#68 Post by Chris Crutchfield » October 8th, 2020, 7:20 pm

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:15 pm
Chris, is there situation in which you’d prefer to use the coravin over repor? With a natural cork, is there any difference between them in terms in terms of wine preservation?
They work in different ways. Repour absorbs oxygen occupying the head space of the bottle, whereas coravin displaces wine with inert argon gas. As such, as long as you use coravin properly (purge air from the needle before using, etc.) it should preserve the wine longer than Repour.

However, over the span of a week or so, there won't be much difference between the two. So I prefer using Repour on bottles that I will drink within the week. If I want to taste something over a longer term, I'll use coravin. I think I would say a month is about the max that I would expect a coravined bottle to last without degrading too much.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#69 Post by Chris Crutchfield » October 8th, 2020, 7:20 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:17 pm
Also just to clarify, it looks like these are micro-agglomerated corks.
Weird, I thought he said he was using Nomacorc?

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#70 Post by Rodrigo B » October 8th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:17 pm
Also just to clarify, it looks like these are micro-agglomerated corks.
Now that you mentioned it, there were discussions on the main dN thread over closures. It appears that for the first couple of released cam used VINC corks with are micro-agglomerated corks, but for later released switched to Nomacorc which is synthetic. I appears you’ve only dug into bottles with the VINC corks.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#71 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.

The merlot is much more elegant than i expected given the notes and likely producer. It has great red fruit, smooth velvety mouthfeel and a dry but not astringent finish. It should be ready to drink relatively soon after a few weeks or a month to settle down.

The n.08 is darker fruit, bigger body, and very dry finish. Some dark chocolate and earthy funk in this. Nothing jumped out at me other than the dry finish. I really had to focus on this to create an identity/note for it. Definitely needs some time to settle and hopefully it comes around, but for now it isn’t striking me as a great value.

This makes three DN I’ve tried in 3oz pours. N.05 gets me most excited for what it can become, but even with where it is now, it is the one I am really pleased with.

The merlot n.15 is solid and will improve, but different than what I expected. Definitely a good value considering price paid.

N.08 needs to improve a lot to be a win. If it is Anthem as expected, I’m not surprised as I believe their cabs need time to come around, and they don’t release them typically until they have a year in the bottle, and the DN have had a few months and just arrived today.

All in all, I’m pleased thus far, the wines are super young, and they literally came off the truck a few hours before I poured. No complaints here. Its been fun to try them.

[cheers.gif]
Love it. Virtually all the cabs that we have uncovered have not been released by the producers and won't for 1-2 years. So it makes sense that they aren't ready for prime time yet. Storage is definitely a cost and needs to be added into the value proposition. I got all of these and have two cases of #8 so I hope that one develops over time.

What other #s did you order that you are waiting for?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#72 Post by Rodrigo B » October 8th, 2020, 7:25 pm

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:20 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:15 pm
Chris, is there situation in which you’d prefer to use the coravin over repor? With a natural cork, is there any difference between them in terms in terms of wine preservation?
They work in different ways. Repour absorbs oxygen occupying the head space of the bottle, whereas coravin displaces wine with inert argon gas. As such, as long as you use coravin properly (purge air from the needle before using, etc.) it should preserve the wine longer than Repour.

However, over the span of a week or so, there won't be much difference between the two. So I prefer using Repour on bottles that I will drink within the week. If I want to taste something over a longer term, I'll use coravin. I think I would say a month is about the max that I would expect a coravined bottle to last without degrading too much.
Thanks. I’ve used the repour on a bottle over the course of a month or so and didn’t notice much degradation of the wine two or three weeks in. Granted I think it depends a lot on how full the bottle is and how much oxygen the iron inside the capsule has to absorb and I've had some situations where the repour really didn't keep the wine well for extended periods, so YMMV, widely.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#73 Post by JonathanG » October 8th, 2020, 7:31 pm

MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 4:14 pm
Nate Simon wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 4:08 pm
Point of order...
When somebody posts “I drank a #[x],” can we also post the variety (and preferably appellation)?
I personally can’t remember what each of the dozens of numbered wines is.
That's a good idea actually. I second. Say the # and if possible post as little or much about the # as you feel obliged so people know wtf it is. Can be price, appellation, even a short description. I edited top post suggesting.
I vote that MatthewT just make a list of all the OG's with a little bit of info so we can just go back to Post 1 as a reference. He has to do some work to maintain cult leader status.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#74 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 7:34 pm

MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:21 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.

The merlot is much more elegant than i expected given the notes and likely producer. It has great red fruit, smooth velvety mouthfeel and a dry but not astringent finish. It should be ready to drink relatively soon after a few weeks or a month to settle down.

The n.08 is darker fruit, bigger body, and very dry finish. Some dark chocolate and earthy funk in this. Nothing jumped out at me other than the dry finish. I really had to focus on this to create an identity/note for it. Definitely needs some time to settle and hopefully it comes around, but for now it isn’t striking me as a great value.

This makes three DN I’ve tried in 3oz pours. N.05 gets me most excited for what it can become, but even with where it is now, it is the one I am really pleased with.

The merlot n.15 is solid and will improve, but different than what I expected. Definitely a good value considering price paid.

N.08 needs to improve a lot to be a win. If it is Anthem as expected, I’m not surprised as I believe their cabs need time to come around, and they don’t release them typically until they have a year in the bottle, and the DN have had a few months and just arrived today.

All in all, I’m pleased thus far, the wines are super young, and they literally came off the truck a few hours before I poured. No complaints here. Its been fun to try them.

[cheers.gif]
Love it. Virtually all the cabs that we have uncovered have not been released by the producers and won't for 1-2 years. So it makes sense that they aren't ready for prime time yet. Storage is definitely a cost and needs to be added into the value proposition. I got all of these and have two cases of #8 so I hope that one develops over time.

What other #s did you order that you are waiting for?
Waiting on #1, 40, 41, 42, 66 (split 66 and wont have until Christmas)

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#75 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 7:45 pm

JonathanG wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:31 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 4:14 pm
Nate Simon wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 4:08 pm
Point of order...
When somebody posts “I drank a #[x],” can we also post the variety (and preferably appellation)?
I personally can’t remember what each of the dozens of numbered wines is.
That's a good idea actually. I second. Say the # and if possible post as little or much about the # as you feel obliged so people know wtf it is. Can be price, appellation, even a short description. I edited top post suggesting.
I vote that MatthewT just make a list of all the OG's with a little bit of info so we can just go back to Post 1 as a reference. He has to do some work to maintain cult leader status.
I vote that's actually a really good idea but I dunno seems like a lot of work but also seems like a really good idea. Like a 2 liner on every one. And it's pinned there. Hmmmmmm. Maybe I will do that.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#76 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 7:47 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:34 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:21 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Coravined a 3oz pour of n.08 cabernet and n.15 merlot, right off the truck again.

The merlot is much more elegant than i expected given the notes and likely producer. It has great red fruit, smooth velvety mouthfeel and a dry but not astringent finish. It should be ready to drink relatively soon after a few weeks or a month to settle down.

The n.08 is darker fruit, bigger body, and very dry finish. Some dark chocolate and earthy funk in this. Nothing jumped out at me other than the dry finish. I really had to focus on this to create an identity/note for it. Definitely needs some time to settle and hopefully it comes around, but for now it isn’t striking me as a great value.

This makes three DN I’ve tried in 3oz pours. N.05 gets me most excited for what it can become, but even with where it is now, it is the one I am really pleased with.

The merlot n.15 is solid and will improve, but different than what I expected. Definitely a good value considering price paid.

N.08 needs to improve a lot to be a win. If it is Anthem as expected, I’m not surprised as I believe their cabs need time to come around, and they don’t release them typically until they have a year in the bottle, and the DN have had a few months and just arrived today.

All in all, I’m pleased thus far, the wines are super young, and they literally came off the truck a few hours before I poured. No complaints here. Its been fun to try them.

[cheers.gif]
Love it. Virtually all the cabs that we have uncovered have not been released by the producers and won't for 1-2 years. So it makes sense that they aren't ready for prime time yet. Storage is definitely a cost and needs to be added into the value proposition. I got all of these and have two cases of #8 so I hope that one develops over time.

What other #s did you order that you are waiting for?
Waiting on #1, 40, 41, 42, 66 (split 66 and wont have until Christmas)
You took a HARD stop from #15 to #40. Why did you restart? Cellar room? I mean I get the stop, I'm super stressed about figuring where to put this wine. I thought off site would be easy but it's not. Just curious why the restart. You hadn't tried them yet so what made you get back in?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#77 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 7:48 pm

MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:45 pm
JonathanG wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:31 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 4:14 pm


That's a good idea actually. I second. Say the # and if possible post as little or much about the # as you feel obliged so people know wtf it is. Can be price, appellation, even a short description. I edited top post suggesting.
I vote that MatthewT just make a list of all the OG's with a little bit of info so we can just go back to Post 1 as a reference. He has to do some work to maintain cult leader status.
I vote that's actually a really good idea but I dunno seems like a lot of work but also seems like a really good idea. Like a 2 liner on every one. And it's pinned there. Hmmmmmm. Maybe I will do that.
Isn’t there a google sheet for this Already that can be shared?

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#78 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 7:52 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:48 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:45 pm
JonathanG wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:31 pm


I vote that MatthewT just make a list of all the OG's with a little bit of info so we can just go back to Post 1 as a reference. He has to do some work to maintain cult leader status.
I vote that's actually a really good idea but I dunno seems like a lot of work but also seems like a really good idea. Like a 2 liner on every one. And it's pinned there. Hmmmmmm. Maybe I will do that.
Isn’t there a google sheet for this Already that can be shared?
No, nobody has put every single # in a spreadsheet. Just the ones they have bought. I wish someone would just do it. Not complicated. Every #, what it is, what it cost, what cam says retail is, maybe if he says winery blend or not, and finally what the options the board thinks it is (it's never more than 2 options). I aint doing it.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#79 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 7:56 pm

MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:47 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:34 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:21 pm


Love it. Virtually all the cabs that we have uncovered have not been released by the producers and won't for 1-2 years. So it makes sense that they aren't ready for prime time yet. Storage is definitely a cost and needs to be added into the value proposition. I got all of these and have two cases of #8 so I hope that one develops over time.

What other #s did you order that you are waiting for?
Waiting on #1, 40, 41, 42, 66 (split 66 and wont have until Christmas)
You took a HARD stop from #15 to #40. Why did you restart? Cellar room? I mean I get the stop, I'm super stressed about figuring where to put this wine. I thought off site would be easy but it's not. Just curious why the restart. You hadn't tried them yet so what made you get back in?
I really considered all of them, but even before buying any offers, I committed to 2018 only and Bordeaux reds only. That is mostly what I drink and they are more expensive. I can find affordable whites, roses, zins etc. and really felt that the combination of current economic climate + 2018 surplus + 2018 quality created a special situation that I wanted to capitalize on. But, i also wanted to stay reigned in and not lose control to the hype or FOMO. I’m happy with where I landed so far.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#80 Post by MatthewT » October 8th, 2020, 8:05 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:56 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:47 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:34 pm


Waiting on #1, 40, 41, 42, 66 (split 66 and wont have until Christmas)
You took a HARD stop from #15 to #40. Why did you restart? Cellar room? I mean I get the stop, I'm super stressed about figuring where to put this wine. I thought off site would be easy but it's not. Just curious why the restart. You hadn't tried them yet so what made you get back in?
I really considered all of them, but even before buying any offers, I committed to 2018 only and Bordeaux reds only. That is mostly what I drink and they are more expensive. I can find affordable whites, roses, zins etc. and really felt that the combination of current economic climate + 2018 surplus + 2018 quality created a special situation that I wanted to capitalize on. But, i also wanted to stay reigned in and not lose control to the hype or FOMO. I’m happy with where I landed so far.
Yah I also didn't buy whites, rose's etc. Well I did buy 2 cases of white for my sister in law. But #20 to #39 had lots of interesting cabs. High end ones.

40/41/42 weren't cabs I guess? I thought virtually all the reds were cab dominated blends. And labeled as cabs. (75%+, really 90%)
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#81 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » October 8th, 2020, 8:09 pm

MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 8:05 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:56 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:47 pm


You took a HARD stop from #15 to #40. Why did you restart? Cellar room? I mean I get the stop, I'm super stressed about figuring where to put this wine. I thought off site would be easy but it's not. Just curious why the restart. You hadn't tried them yet so what made you get back in?
I really considered all of them, but even before buying any offers, I committed to 2018 only and Bordeaux reds only. That is mostly what I drink and they are more expensive. I can find affordable whites, roses, zins etc. and really felt that the combination of current economic climate + 2018 surplus + 2018 quality created a special situation that I wanted to capitalize on. But, i also wanted to stay reigned in and not lose control to the hype or FOMO. I’m happy with where I landed so far.
Yah I also didn't buy whites, rose's etc. Well I did buy 2 cases of white for my sister in law. But #20 to #39 had lots of interesting cabs. High end ones.

40/41/42 weren't cabs I guess? I thought virtually all the reds were cab dominated blends. And labeled as cabs. (75%+, really 90%)
They must have been years other than 2018, or from sonoma (not a big fan for cabs), or just didn't sound like my preferred style. 40, 41, 42 were all High end 2018 napa cabs.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#82 Post by Brent S » October 8th, 2020, 8:27 pm

No 12 Chardonnay.
Despite what others posted, this was light and crisp with minimal oak. Loved it. Wife did too.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#83 Post by Rich Brown » October 8th, 2020, 8:41 pm

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:20 pm
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:15 pm
Chris, is there situation in which you’d prefer to use the coravin over repor? With a natural cork, is there any difference between them in terms in terms of wine preservation?
They work in different ways. Repour absorbs oxygen occupying the head space of the bottle, whereas coravin displaces wine with inert argon gas. As such, as long as you use coravin properly (purge air from the needle before using, etc.) it should preserve the wine longer than Repour.

However, over the span of a week or so, there won't be much difference between the two. So I prefer using Repour on bottles that I will drink within the week. If I want to taste something over a longer term, I'll use coravin. I think I would say a month is about the max that I would expect a coravined bottle to last without degrading too much.
Yep, I think thats a good description between the two, but I completely disagree on the length of time you can keep a properly coravind bottle. As long as the wine/cork are fairly young (call it 15 years or less), you purge the needle before after use, and ultimately pop the cork after you coravin 3/4 of the wine, you can keep bottles for a long time. I’ve personally opened bottles 1 year+ after poking them that have been pristine. Big fan.

I admittedly have less experience with repour but multiple other threads have referenced seeing wines going downhill after a week or so. Ymmv of course.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#84 Post by Rodrigo B » October 8th, 2020, 9:04 pm

MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:45 pm
JonathanG wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 7:31 pm
MatthewT wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 4:14 pm


That's a good idea actually. I second. Say the # and if possible post as little or much about the # as you feel obliged so people know wtf it is. Can be price, appellation, even a short description. I edited top post suggesting.
I vote that MatthewT just make a list of all the OG's with a little bit of info so we can just go back to Post 1 as a reference. He has to do some work to maintain cult leader status.
I vote that's actually a really good idea but I dunno seems like a lot of work but also seems like a really good idea. Like a 2 liner on every one. And it's pinned there. Hmmmmmm. Maybe I will do that.
Here you go. Figured I might as well do it. No producer info because quite frankly I've got better things to do than to go back through the whole thread to figure out people's guesses on producers. I will add guesses of future offers going forward or if people note producers for particular previous offers.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#85 Post by Chris Crutchfield » October 8th, 2020, 9:10 pm

Rich Brown wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 8:41 pm
Yep, I think thats a good description between the two, but I completely disagree on the length of time you can keep a properly coravind bottle. As long as the wine/cork are fairly young (call it 15 years or less), you purge the needle before after use, and ultimately pop the cork after you coravin 3/4 of the wine, you can keep bottles for a long time. I’ve personally opened bottles 1 year+ after poking them that have been pristine. Big fan.

I admittedly have less experience with repour but multiple other threads have referenced seeing wines going downhill after a week or so. Ymmv of course.
OK, that's a good data point. I've never tried to hold a Coravined bottle that long before. I was mostly going by a paper I saw that did an analysis of oxidation level with Coravin across different closure types. There are probably many other papers that have done similar types of analyses. 1 month is also the anecdotal figure I heard from other people who own one.

Of course, probably a lot depends on the youth and structure of the wine in question.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#86 Post by Rich Brown » October 8th, 2020, 9:27 pm

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 9:10 pm
Rich Brown wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 8:41 pm
Yep, I think thats a good description between the two, but I completely disagree on the length of time you can keep a properly coravind bottle. As long as the wine/cork are fairly young (call it 15 years or less), you purge the needle before after use, and ultimately pop the cork after you coravin 3/4 of the wine, you can keep bottles for a long time. I’ve personally opened bottles 1 year+ after poking them that have been pristine. Big fan.

I admittedly have less experience with repour but multiple other threads have referenced seeing wines going downhill after a week or so. Ymmv of course.
OK, that's a good data point. I've never tried to hold a Coravined bottle that long before. I was mostly going by a paper I saw that did an analysis of oxidation level with Coravin across different closure types. There are probably many other papers that have done similar types of analyses. 1 month is also the anecdotal figure I heard from other people who own one.

Of course, probably a lot depends on the youth and structure of the wine in question.
That's super interesting, thanks for sharing! And i completely agree on those factors being a major component to the effectiveness and longevity of a Coravined bottle. Also user error definitley plays a factor. As I mentioned above, little things like purging the needle make a big difference [cheers.gif]

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#87 Post by Michael Singsen » October 9th, 2020, 12:29 am

Last night we opened a bottle of the #15 Merlot from somewhere in Oakville, $15 including tax and shipping. After letting it sit in the bottle for an hour or so, we poured a couple of glasses and gave it a whirl. I had minimal expectations since I rarely drink Merlot, and understood that it would probably get better if I let it sit for a year or two, but since this is the first of too many cases of DeN coming my way, I couldn't wait to try it. With some relief, after all the trash talking going around here this week, we think it is delicious right now. Not super complex or concentrated, but nicely balanced, fruity with a lovely finish, if a little bit closed down. Drank the other half tonight, and I'd say it opened up some, but I'm not going to say that I liked it better than yesterday. All in all, for $15 I'm more than satisfied. If it was $40, I might wish there was more to offer.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#88 Post by Eric White » October 9th, 2020, 6:48 am

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 6:36 pm
Question for you Eric. For the wines that you’ve tried so far, would you pay the retail price Cam noted on the offers for those wines? e.g. would you pay the say $50 retail for a wine Cam sold for $10?
so far, my honest answer would be - somewhere in the middle.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#89 Post by MatthewT » October 9th, 2020, 6:49 am

I would happily pay $30-$40 a bottle for #2. Wouldn't think twice.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#90 Post by Rodrigo B » October 9th, 2020, 6:52 am

It’s going to be interesting to see if the enthusiasm for de Negoce continues as people stat tasting the wines and making their own opinions about whether these wines present the value proposition that Cam suggested.

Are these wines going to be $95 good or just a solid $15 wine? TBD
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#91 Post by Rodrigo B » October 9th, 2020, 6:56 am

MatthewT wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:49 am
I would happily pay $30-$40 a bottle for #2. Wouldn't think twice.
But was #2 $90 good? Would you pay that price for it? (if you were in the market for a wine in that price range)

I think that it would be interesting to have each tasting note go over people's opinions regarding the value proposition of the wine e.g. do you think it was worth the stated retail cost/would you pay that much for that wine?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#92 Post by MatthewT » October 9th, 2020, 6:59 am

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:56 am
MatthewT wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:49 am
I would happily pay $30-$40 a bottle for #2. Wouldn't think twice.
But was #2 $90 good? Would you pay that price for it? (if you were in the market for a wine in that price range)

I think that it would be interesting to have each tasting note go over people's opinions regarding the value proposition of the wine e.g. do you think it was worth the stated retail cost/would you pay that much for that wine?
I think a lot of dN buyers are not buying $90-$150 wine. I do have some wine in that price range in my closet but 90%+ of what I buy is south of $50. '

I think #2 is $75 good, yah. I wouldn't buy another case of it for $75 right now cause I literally won't spend $75 on ANY bottle of ANYTHING right now. The days of >$50 wine buying for me are largely over or at least over for next couple years.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#93 Post by Rodrigo B » October 9th, 2020, 7:06 am

MatthewT wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:59 am
I think a lot of dN buyers are not buying $90-$150 wine. I do have some wine in that price range in my closet but 90%+ of what I buy is south of $50. '

I think #2 is $75 good, yah. I wouldn't buy another case of it for $75 right now cause I literally won't spend $75 on ANY bottle of ANYTHING right now. The days of >$50 wine buying for me are largely over or at least over for next couple years.
I agree. Most dN wine buyers aren’t the type to purchase a significant amount of $100+ wines. Which is why I’m curious to hear from everyone. If you were in the market for a $100-$150 would you feel that that particular dN wine delivered on that stated price? How much will that affect people’s future purchase decisions or are they just going to see these as affordable daily drinker that while not being worth the ~$100 Cam noted may still better than a $15 supermarket wine?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#94 Post by Glen Gold » October 9th, 2020, 7:37 am

The part of my mindset that "would you pay $75 for it?" leaves out is that when I actually pay $75 for a wine, I'm trying to get something that drinks like a $150 wine.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#95 Post by Rodrigo B » October 9th, 2020, 7:56 am

Glen Gold wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 7:37 am
The part of my mindset that "would you pay $75 for it?" leaves out is that when I actually pay $75 for a wine, I'm trying to get something that drinks like a $150 wine.
I think the question of is it worth the retail price is slightly different than the question of whether a wine punches above its price point.

There’s plenty of wines that I tasted that I’d easily buy them again if they cost twice as much, but I think that’s a different thing than to conclude whether that wine you paid $75 was worth the $75. Another way to look at it, if you had to go back in time and buy that $75 wine again, would you do it, or would you get something else?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#96 Post by robert creth » October 9th, 2020, 8:26 am

I’m only speaking on #17. Do I think it is worth $40-50? Absolutely. I would buy 2 or 3 bottles at that price. I am not one to buy cases because I don’t using up that much of my limited cellar space on one wine. Like most, I bought on the chance of getting a quality wine at a bargain price, I was prepared to have wasted $150, but had hopes. I would definitely recommend to others looking for a real deal.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#97 Post by MatthewT » October 9th, 2020, 8:29 am

robert creth wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 8:26 am
I’m only speaking on #17. Do I think it is worth $40-50? Absolutely. I would buy 2 or 3 bottles at that price. I am not one to buy cases because I don’t using up that much of my limited cellar space on one wine. Like most, I bought on the chance of getting a quality wine at a bargain price, I was prepared to have wasted $150, but had hopes. I would definitely recommend to others looking for a real deal.
Best part? We think #17 is a $30 retail bottle of wine! Literally the lowest of all the cabs he has offered. Awesome!
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#98 Post by Mike R » October 9th, 2020, 10:00 am

Rodrigo B wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 7:06 am
MatthewT wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:59 am
I think a lot of dN buyers are not buying $90-$150 wine. I do have some wine in that price range in my closet but 90%+ of what I buy is south of $50. '

I think #2 is $75 good, yah. I wouldn't buy another case of it for $75 right now cause I literally won't spend $75 on ANY bottle of ANYTHING right now. The days of >$50 wine buying for me are largely over or at least over for next couple years.
I agree. Most dN wine buyers aren’t the type to purchase a significant amount of $100+ wines. Which is why I’m curious to hear from everyone. If you were in the market for a $100-$150 would you feel that that particular dN wine delivered on that stated price? How much will that affect people’s future purchase decisions or are they just going to see these as affordable daily drinker that while not being worth the ~$100 Cam noted may still better than a $15 supermarket wine?
While I wouldn't call myself a "regular" $100+ drinker, a significant portion of the bottles I own cost around $100, and have drank many $100+ dollar bottles in my life. For me, a $100 dollar wine and a good $30 dollar wine is more often than not impossible to differentiate. I have had lots of $200+ dollar bottles that were just okay, or in some cases bad, and many $30 dollar bottles that I thought were awesome. I can almost guarantee that if I was asked to blind 6 wines with half costing $30 and half costing $300, there would be little correlation to price in my results.

I look forward to drinking these wines for what they hopefully are: high quality < $20 dollar bottles. I can't imagine paying $100 for any dN, simply because a big part of what makes a $100 dollar wine $100 is knowing the story of the wine, etc... People don't like to admit it, but a big portion of wine tasting and buying is emotional.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#99 Post by Rodrigo B » October 9th, 2020, 10:26 am

Mike R wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 10:00 am
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 7:06 am
MatthewT wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:59 am
I think a lot of dN buyers are not buying $90-$150 wine. I do have some wine in that price range in my closet but 90%+ of what I buy is south of $50. '

I think #2 is $75 good, yah. I wouldn't buy another case of it for $75 right now cause I literally won't spend $75 on ANY bottle of ANYTHING right now. The days of >$50 wine buying for me are largely over or at least over for next couple years.
I agree. Most dN wine buyers aren’t the type to purchase a significant amount of $100+ wines. Which is why I’m curious to hear from everyone. If you were in the market for a $100-$150 would you feel that that particular dN wine delivered on that stated price? How much will that affect people’s future purchase decisions or are they just going to see these as affordable daily drinker that while not being worth the ~$100 Cam noted may still better than a $15 supermarket wine?
While I wouldn't call myself a "regular" $100+ drinker, a significant portion of the bottles I own cost around $100, and have drank many $100+ dollar bottles in my life. For me, a $100 dollar wine and a good $30 dollar wine is more often than not impossible to differentiate. I have had lots of $200+ dollar bottles that were just okay, or in some cases bad, and many $30 dollar bottles that I thought were awesome. I can almost guarantee that if I was asked to blind 6 wines with half costing $30 and half costing $300, there would be little correlation to price in my results.

I look forward to drinking these wines for what they hopefully are: high quality < $20 dollar bottles. I can't imagine paying $100 for any dN, simply because a big part of what makes a $100 dollar wine $100 is knowing the story of the wine, etc... People don't like to admit it, but a big portion of wine tasting and buying is emotional.
I do think there is a difference between preferring a cheaper wine to a more expensive wine and being able to tell the difference between a cheap and expensive wine. I do a couple of blind tastings with cheap and expensive wines every year to see if people can tell the difference. Sometimes people in my group are surprised to find out they preferred the cheaper wine to the more expensive one, and at times you have wines that punch way above their price point and surprise people but people with really good palates can pretty consistently pick out the more expensive wines, even if they don’t necessarily personally prefer it over the cheaper one.

Then there is the conclusion of whether you thought that wine was worth the price paid/listed. And that is an incredibly subjective thing that’s dependent a a myriad of factors, your personal tastes and preferences, how much you normally spend on wine, your purchasing power, environment, etc.

I do agree with you on some of the factors that drive a wine to cost $100+, the story and connection to a time, a place, and the people involved can be critical, and by its very nature, dN wines don't have that deep a connection to those things.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#100 Post by Bryan Cottriel » October 9th, 2020, 10:31 am

Mike R wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 10:00 am
Rodrigo B wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 7:06 am
MatthewT wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:59 am
I think a lot of dN buyers are not buying $90-$150 wine. I do have some wine in that price range in my closet but 90%+ of what I buy is south of $50. '

I think #2 is $75 good, yah. I wouldn't buy another case of it for $75 right now cause I literally won't spend $75 on ANY bottle of ANYTHING right now. The days of >$50 wine buying for me are largely over or at least over for next couple years.
I agree. Most dN wine buyers aren’t the type to purchase a significant amount of $100+ wines. Which is why I’m curious to hear from everyone. If you were in the market for a $100-$150 would you feel that that particular dN wine delivered on that stated price? How much will that affect people’s future purchase decisions or are they just going to see these as affordable daily drinker that while not being worth the ~$100 Cam noted may still better than a $15 supermarket wine?
While I wouldn't call myself a "regular" $100+ drinker, a significant portion of the bottles I own cost around $100, and have drank many $100+ dollar bottles in my life. For me, a $100 dollar wine and a good $30 dollar wine is more often than not impossible to differentiate. I have had lots of $200+ dollar bottles that were just okay, or in some cases bad, and many $30 dollar bottles that I thought were awesome. I can almost guarantee that if I was asked to blind 6 wines with half costing $30 and half costing $300, there would be little correlation to price in my results.

I look forward to drinking these wines for what they hopefully are: high quality < $20 dollar bottles. I can't imagine paying $100 for any dN, simply because a big part of what makes a $100 dollar wine $100 is knowing the story of the wine, etc... People don't like to admit it, but a big portion of wine tasting and buying is emotional.
I thought this thread was about what De Negoce wine you are drinking tonight? There is another thread that is 100 something pages long to argue all you want about this stuff. It would be nice to have one thread where this stays out of. I bought quite a few of the De Negoce wines and would love to read what people think about those wines. [soap.gif] Carry on...

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