What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

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Dmytro Marushkevych
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#451 Post by Dmytro Marushkevych » November 16th, 2020, 9:32 pm

#27. Disjointed now. Will be amazing in couple of years.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#452 Post by Gray G » November 17th, 2020, 4:46 am

#68, fresh off the truck, wonderful Cabernet, thank you
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#453 Post by rsmithjr » November 17th, 2020, 7:00 am

Gray G wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 4:46 am
#68, fresh off the truck, wonderful Cabernet, thank you
Thats good. Have a case on the way...
Roger Smith- Longtime wine drinker and bon vivant' and unofficial De Negoce' FANBOY.....

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#454 Post by rsmithjr » November 17th, 2020, 11:27 am

No tasting notes for # 34 merlot from Bennett Valley? Only one CT rating of 89 points....????
Roger Smith- Longtime wine drinker and bon vivant' and unofficial De Negoce' FANBOY.....

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#455 Post by David Buck » November 17th, 2020, 2:30 pm

rsmithjr wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:27 am
No tasting notes for # 34 merlot from Bennett Valley? Only one CT rating of 89 points....????
Another one with so few reviews is #20. Everyone in love with #17 which was cheaper version not reserve....Maybe not as many cases sold #20. I have it sitting the cooler. John McCarty said it is young but good...Went back in thread and couldnt find anything else. Sounds like a hold anyway...

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#456 Post by Dave R. » November 17th, 2020, 3:11 pm

rsmithjr wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:27 am
No tasting notes for # 34 merlot from Bennett Valley? Only one CT rating of 89 points....????
From memory the N.34 Merlot was really enjoyable. One bottle over two nights. Recall first impression may have been that it was a touch hot to start, but it settled down and had us feeling we had scored a great QPR.

Other de Negoce notes: generally impressed, all far exceeded price points:
- N.16 SB: best Sauvignon Blanc we've had in ages. Classic crisp, refreshing acidity but with texture, complexity and long pleasant finish far beyond typical SB. Would love to buy more, even with far too much wine in cellar.
- N.49 Cabernet: exceed expectations. Purchased as a true cellar defender, "cheap" Cabernet for early drinking. Decanted 4.5 hours. Feared it would be California fruit bomb, but it was not. Notes of tobacco, nice tannins, medium to full body, impressively well balanced. All three drinkers really enjoyed.
- N.55 Rose: big crowd pleaser. Small group quickly went through multiple bottles. Clean and crisp with just enough pleasant fruit notes. Friend who drinks a lot of rose raved about it and regrets not buying 3 or 4 cases.
... @ c k v 3 ll

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#457 Post by Andreas Birnik » November 17th, 2020, 3:49 pm

I tried 5 de Négoce releases during November and here are my scores at this moment in time:

de Négoce OG N.05, 84 points
de Négoce OG N.06, 89 points
de Négoce OG N.08, 91 points
de Négoce OG N.13, 87 points
de Négoce OG N.17, 92 points

In my opinion, OG N.17 drinks the best right now and I'm hoping this is because it "only" has 25% new oak suggesting that the others need more time for the oak to integrate.
E.g. OG N.5 has 75% new oak and will hopefully improve significantly with time.

I can relate to what PeterH wrote above about the OG N.37 Viognier.
The wines so far lack intense character and I'd struggle to learn to pick them out in blind tasting sessions.
This made me think about how Felton Road operates their Pinot Noir program in Central Otago, New Zealand.
They make four distinct single vineyard Pinot Noir: Block 3, Block 5, Calvert and Cornish Point.
They taste the barrels and bottle the most terroir specific barrels under the four single vineyard labels.
The rest of the barrels are all blended together into their Bannockburn Village Pinot Noir.
Not because there is anything faulty with the Pinot, just that it is Pinot Noir that is less interesting and with less of a distinct terroir characteristic.
As I tried the five different de Négoce wines, this came to mind - that the source wineries might have felt that these wines had less distinct character than they'd like.
And that this might have been the reason why they choose not to select those barrels for their own label.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#458 Post by Josh Grossman » November 17th, 2020, 4:06 pm

Popped a 51 (Sonoma Mt Cab Franc). I decanted it but upon first sip, I'd buy this again. This needs time, and more than three months. Nose of current jam, strawberries, vetiver, and sous bois. No pyrazines but searing acid and drying tannins on a longer finish. Wish I knew who the wine maker was. If opening anytime soon, I have it with food. My favorite so far.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#459 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 17th, 2020, 4:10 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 4:06 pm
Popped a 51 (Sonoma Mt Cab Franc). I decanted it but upon first sip, I'd buy this again. This needs time, and more than three months. Nose of current jam, strawberries, vetiver, and sous bois. No pyrazines but searing acid and drying tannins on a longer finish. Wish I knew who the wine maker was. If opening anytime soon, I have it with food. My favorite so far.
The consensus was pretty strong that this was Smith Story.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#460 Post by Josh Grossman » November 17th, 2020, 4:12 pm

Andreas Birnik wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 3:49 pm
I tried 5 de Négoce releases during November and here are my scores at this moment in time:

de Négoce OG N.05, 84 points
de Négoce OG N.06, 89 points
de Négoce OG N.08, 91 points
de Négoce OG N.13, 87 points
de Négoce OG N.17, 92 points

In my opinion, OG N.17 drinks the best right now and I'm hoping this is because it "only" has 25% new oak suggesting that the others need more time for the oak to integrate.
E.g. OG N.5 has 75% new oak and will hopefully improve significantly with time.

I can relate to what PeterH wrote above about the OG N.37 Viognier.
The wines so far lack intense character and I'd struggle to learn to pick them out in blind tasting sessions.
This made me think about how Felton Road operates their Pinot Noir program in Central Otago, New Zealand.
They make four distinct single vineyard Pinot Noir: Block 3, Block 5, Calvert and Cornish Point.
They taste the barrels and bottle the most terroir specific barrels under the four single vineyard labels.
The rest of the barrels are all blended together into their Bannockburn Village Pinot Noir.
Not because there is anything faulty with the Pinot, just that it is Pinot Noir that is less interesting and with less of a distinct terroir characteristic.
As I tried the five different de Négoce wines, this came to mind - that the source wineries might have felt that these wines had less distinct character than they'd like.
And that this might have been the reason why they choose not to select those barrels for their own label.
04 is drinking great too. I bought these somewhat as cellar defenders--but 02, 15, and 51 needs some time. 17 and 40 are in-between.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#461 Post by Josh Grossman » November 17th, 2020, 4:46 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 4:06 pm
Popped a 51 (Sonoma Mt Cab Franc). I decanted it but upon first sip, I'd buy this again. This needs time, and more than three months. Nose of current jam, strawberries, vetiver, and sous bois. No pyrazines but searing acid and drying tannins on a longer finish. Wish I knew who the wine maker was. If opening anytime soon, I have it with food. My favorite so far.
There isn't currant jam--but rather strawberry rhubarb pie.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#462 Post by Eric White » November 17th, 2020, 5:10 pm

PnP a #48, RRV Pinot (thought to be Patz & Hall Bootlegger Hill). Nose is fully open for business, with classic RRV notes of cherry, spice, cola, and rhubarb - really nice and exuberant. Just a tad hot on the palate right now, but you get the full expression of Pinot. a broad moutfhfeel, with good acidic lift, plenty of stuffing, and a pleasing medium finish. Another legit wine you wouldn't confuse with a generic supermarket pinot - not even close. I'd be damn happy to have paid $30+, even happier paying $15 and change (delivered).

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#463 Post by Brent Butler » November 17th, 2020, 5:24 pm

N.04 (2018 Merlot, stagecoach) tonight. I think this is the 5th I’ve had. I don’t keep notes but by memory this is the best bottle of N.04 I’ve had. Must be improving with time. Honestly if I had this blind I probably would have mistaken it for a cab which is what I drink mostly.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#464 Post by Albert R » November 17th, 2020, 5:50 pm

Brent Butler wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 5:24 pm
N.04 (2018 Merlot, stagecoach) tonight. I think this is the 5th I’ve had. I don’t keep notes but by memory this is the best bottle of N.04 I’ve had. Must be improving with time. Honestly if I had this blind I probably would have mistaken it for a cab which is what I drink mostly.
It’s the only de Négoce bottle I’ve had so far and it was very good. I am satisfied with this purchase.
@. Re-go

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#465 Post by Mike R » November 17th, 2020, 7:00 pm

Opened another N 40 tonight. Will spare the tasting notes, but it was quite nice. Not sure if it was due to the food pairing (excellent reverse-seared NY Strip steaks), but it drank considerably better than the last bottle I opened (which I drank without food).
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#466 Post by Eric White » November 17th, 2020, 7:15 pm

Eric White wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 5:10 pm
PnP a #48, RRV Pinot (thought to be Patz & Hall Bootlegger Hill). Nose is fully open for business, with classic RRV notes of cherry, spice, cola, and rhubarb - really nice and exuberant. Just a tad hot on the palate right now, but you get the full expression of Pinot. a broad moutfhfeel, with good acidic lift, plenty of stuffing, and a pleasing medium finish. Another legit wine you wouldn't confuse with a generic supermarket pinot - not even close. I'd be damn happy to have paid $30+, even happier paying $15 and change (delivered).
Just to add - this continued to improve with air, but it didn't last long between the two of us. this is a real winner.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#467 Post by Donnie B » November 17th, 2020, 7:35 pm

Opened first DN bottle this past weekend. #7 SRH PN, no decant but left bottle open for 2 hours. Very light color and definitely has the musty barnyard aroma others have mentioned. For $13/btl all in a very good deal.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#468 Post by Robert M yers » November 17th, 2020, 7:50 pm

Popped a #69 “Pride” off the truck today, and decanted for a few hours. First thought was uh-oh this is looking a bit light in color for Pride, Wow the nose is really great though. Aromas are really exploding right now and in that intoxicating way that Exudes some class. Deep red fruits leaning to some black but not heavy or a sense of too much extraction. Really really nice on the front side here and the wine shines here. Oak seems in check, it’s there but Not poking its monster head out. The finish is a bit weird for me though, as some mint (interesting) then bitter comes through. Also I have to say if your alcohol averse I found it really poking out quite a it overall but especially on the finish, it’s a bit hot.

That said it’s a quality wine imo whether it’s Pride seconds or whatever and certainly a Good deal at the ~$20 all in. Once again I’m seeing this as something in between the Stated winery price and the paid price, which I guess isn’t such a bad outcome thus far.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#469 Post by <hr!s.L » November 17th, 2020, 9:41 pm

David Buck wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 2:30 pm
rsmithjr wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:27 am
No tasting notes for # 34 merlot from Bennett Valley? Only one CT rating of 89 points....????
Another one with so few reviews is #20. Everyone in love with #17 which was cheaper version not reserve....Maybe not as many cases sold #20. I have it sitting the cooler. John McCarty said it is young but good...Went back in thread and couldnt find anything else. Sounds like a hold anyway...

From a week ago in the "Re: de Negoce offer" thread (page 140) - one more positive data point:
Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 2:56 pm
Crushed an OG No20 FOB last night. Decanted for an hour. No formal note, but the wine is legit. Can't remember what Cam said about winery pricing, but it certainly is worth the freight from de Nogoce. If the synthetic corks hold, I imagine this will be stellar in 10 years.
Last edited by <hr!s.L on November 18th, 2020, 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#470 Post by David Buck » November 18th, 2020, 7:21 am

Eric White wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 5:10 pm
PnP a #48, RRV Pinot (thought to be Patz & Hall Bootlegger Hill). Nose is fully open for business, with classic RRV notes of cherry, spice, cola, and rhubarb - really nice and exuberant. Just a tad hot on the palate right now, but you get the full expression of Pinot. a broad moutfhfeel, with good acidic lift, plenty of stuffing, and a pleasing medium finish. Another legit wine you wouldn't confuse with a generic supermarket pinot - not even close. I'd be damn happy to have paid $30+, even happier paying $15 and change (delivered).
Great...got that one arriving tomorrow. Eric review of #70 Pinot Noir Quad pack on deck?

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#471 Post by Eric White » November 18th, 2020, 7:26 am

David Buck wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 7:21 am
Eric White wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 5:10 pm
PnP a #48, RRV Pinot (thought to be Patz & Hall Bootlegger Hill). Nose is fully open for business, with classic RRV notes of cherry, spice, cola, and rhubarb - really nice and exuberant. Just a tad hot on the palate right now, but you get the full expression of Pinot. a broad moutfhfeel, with good acidic lift, plenty of stuffing, and a pleasing medium finish. Another legit wine you wouldn't confuse with a generic supermarket pinot - not even close. I'd be damn happy to have paid $30+, even happier paying $15 and change (delivered).
Great...got that one arriving tomorrow. Eric review of #70 Pinot Noir Quad pack on deck?
hmm, I have received it - and Thanksgiving is coming up, maybe a good opportunity to open at least a couple!

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#472 Post by rsmithjr » November 18th, 2020, 9:41 am

Opened a #34 last night. Took about 2 hours to start to come around. Not wowed by this but its nice. Herbal nose starting to come thru....
Roger Smith- Longtime wine drinker and bon vivant' and unofficial De Negoce' FANBOY.....

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#473 Post by Jay $$ Winton » November 18th, 2020, 9:56 am

opened a 16 last night. Very pleased and my Sancerre drinking wife also liked it.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#474 Post by Mike J ewesson » November 18th, 2020, 1:16 pm

<hr!s.L wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 9:41 pm
David Buck wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 2:30 pm
rsmithjr wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 11:27 am
No tasting notes for # 34 merlot from Bennett Valley? Only one CT rating of 89 points....????
Another one with so few reviews is #20. Everyone in love with #17 which was cheaper version not reserve....Maybe not as many cases sold #20. I have it sitting the cooler. John McCarty said it is young but good...Went back in thread and couldnt find anything else. Sounds like a hold anyway...

From a week ago in the "Re: de Negoce offer" thread (page 140) - one more positive data point:
Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 2:56 pm
Crushed an OG No20 FOB last night. Decanted for an hour. No formal note, but the wine is legit. Can't remember what Cam said about winery pricing, but it certainly is worth the freight from de Nogoce. If the synthetic corks hold, I imagine this will be stellar in 10 years.
Agree on the No. 20. An excellent value. In a blind tasting, I think that I would guess that No. 20 was a $50-75 bottle of Napa cab.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#475 Post by Peter C. » November 18th, 2020, 3:35 pm

N.25 right off the truck. Freezing up here so the bottle is as well, but already showing pretty well despite that. Dark red cherry, strawberry licorice and some graphite on the nose. After a quick decant very dense and chewy, with some tannin on the back end. Lots of fruit though and def restrained, oak is minimal. Love it and should only improve.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#476 Post by L Harris » November 18th, 2020, 4:28 pm

PnP the N.63 Riesling. Found Cams tasting notes pretty on point. It is super dry - almost more SB with its slight citrus acidity but with some notes of sweeter citrus (satsuma?) and green apple. Went great with creamy tarragon chicken, not sure it would go as well with typical Riesling pairings like spicy Asian dishes. Would pair very well with fish dishes as well.

Very happy with this overall and will have no trouble plowing through my case of this. Great value for $10 shipped.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#477 Post by Brent Butler » November 18th, 2020, 5:32 pm

N.33 (Alexander valley cab, $10, bottled 8/10/2020) for tonight. Thin for my taste. I guess I like bigger cabs and have probably been spoiled by my recent nights with the hillside collection. Nonetheless, this is pretty much par for my weeknights pre dN.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#478 Post by jordan jacobs » November 18th, 2020, 6:08 pm

Opened #2 -2017 Cabernet-first denegoce I have opened.
It was said to be 60% new French but I get straight up American oak in the nose. It is big and ripe and indicative of the 2017 heat. Not my style. That being said this has good guts. It’s pretty well balanced to go with the 15.2% alcohol. I get very little heat on the nose if any and only a tad on the back end. It’s complex and delicious, easy to throw back. Great purchase, should improve over the next decade. Well done. Easily bests $60+ cabs.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#479 Post by R. Gaston » November 18th, 2020, 6:11 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 4:06 pm
Popped a 51 (Sonoma Mt Cab Franc). I decanted it but upon first sip, I'd buy this again. This needs time, and more than three months. Nose of current jam, strawberries, vetiver, and sous bois. No pyrazines but searing acid and drying tannins on a longer finish. Wish I knew who the wine maker was. If opening anytime soon, I have it with food. My favorite so far.
Popped this tonight. A nice wine with red fruit and a smooth finish. I get very little tannins and a touch of oak at the end. Easy drinking wine and should go well with tonight’s short ribs. It drinks like a nice $25 wine so a fair value but wouldn’t buy again. Glad I split a case, I wouldn’t need 12 of these babies.
Ryan

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#480 Post by R. Gaston » November 18th, 2020, 7:36 pm

So update...the Cab Franc did not go well with dinner. Really became simplistic and sweeter. This has no chance of aging IMHO and now drinks like a grocery store $10 wine. Real bummer and lesson learned. Great marketing though!!
Ryan

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#481 Post by Benjg » November 18th, 2020, 8:27 pm

Another positive vote for #63 Riesling. Tasting great two days after delivery. This case won’t last long, just like #16 Sauv Blanc.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#482 Post by john mccarty » November 18th, 2020, 8:51 pm

L Harris wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 4:28 pm
PnP the N.63 Riesling. Found Cams tasting notes pretty on point. It is super dry - almost more SB with its slight citrus acidity but with some notes of sweeter citrus (satsuma?) and green apple. Went great with creamy tarragon chicken, not sure it would go as well with typical Riesling pairings like spicy Asian dishes. Would pair very well with fish dishes as well.

Very happy with this overall and will have no trouble plowing through my case of this. Great value for $10 shipped.
Tasted this also today with matar paneer, dal, cumin-crusted sable fish filet, and saffron rice. I thought it was spectacular! "Bone dry," yes but acrobatic aromatics. green apple, and looong crisp finish. Wish I could buy another case. $8/bottle plus tax and shipping? Are you kidding me?!!!

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#483 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 18th, 2020, 9:37 pm

I also opened N.51. I disagree with the previous poster who said that this will not age well. It definitely has the acidity (medium+) to hold up over time. Medium tannins and no detectable oak (this was 100% neutral barrels). Now, does it taste like a Cabernet Franc from the Loire like what Cam billed it as? I'd say not. There's less greenness and more fruit present here. This is a California wine made in a cool climate style.

While the wine is quite tasty now, I think it will be even better in the 5-10 year range after it picks up some nice tertiary notes. I could see myself paying $30-40 for this wine so I'd say that it's a pretty solid QPR. If Cam restocks 51 or 52 I wouldn't mind grabbing another case to tuck away.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#484 Post by CliffM » November 19th, 2020, 5:34 am

I tasted 70A two nights ago, and was extremely impressed! Perfectly balanced, aromatic, diverse, and delicious. Notes of blood orange, black and red cherries, red currant, rose petals, tea, and wet rock all competed for my attention throughout the bottle. Pinots are my thing and I would have been just as pleased with this one at $75 a bottle.

I followed it up with 70B last night, and unfortunately had a completely different experience. Nose... nothing really, maybe the slightest hint of cherry. On the palate... cherry, so much freaking cherry. Red cherry, black cherry, and cherry cough drops. The only other thing I could consistently taste was the alcohol. It has a similar abv to 70A, but clearly not as balanced or impressive. This is the first Denegoce wine that has genuinely disappointed me. I’ve had 4, 15, and 70A and loved all three. All these presented at the very least as excellent buys for their price point. However, if 70B doesn’t improve (gonna give the rest of my 70Bs a year in the bottle and a proper decant), I can honestly say even at $15 a bottle, I know I can find better pinots elsewhere.
Last edited by CliffM on November 19th, 2020, 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#485 Post by Peter C. » November 19th, 2020, 5:37 am

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 9:37 pm
I also opened N.51. I disagree with the previous poster who said that this will not age well. It definitely has the acidity (medium+) to hold up over time. Medium tannins and no detectable oak (this was 100% neutral barrels). Now, does it taste like a Cabernet Franc from the Loire like what Cam billed it as? I'd say not. There's less greenness and more fruit present here. This is a California wine made in a cool climate style.

While the wine is quite tasty now, I think it will be even better in the 5-10 year range after it picks up some nice tertiary notes. I could see myself paying $30-40 for this wine so I'd say that it's a pretty solid QPR. If Cam restocks 51 or 52 I wouldn't mind grabbing another case to tuck away.
You wonder if some bottles were bottled later than others, which could explain vast differences in these tasting notes. I saw some notes on CT for #25 that said fruit was thin and this was a lean wine - my experience was almost 180 degrees from that.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#486 Post by L Harris » November 19th, 2020, 6:41 am

john mccarty wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 8:51 pm
L Harris wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 4:28 pm
PnP the N.63 Riesling. Found Cams tasting notes pretty on point. It is super dry - almost more SB with its slight citrus acidity but with some notes of sweeter citrus (satsuma?) and green apple. Went great with creamy tarragon chicken, not sure it would go as well with typical Riesling pairings like spicy Asian dishes. Would pair very well with fish dishes as well.

Very happy with this overall and will have no trouble plowing through my case of this. Great value for $10 shipped.
Tasted this also today with matar paneer, dal, cumin-crusted sable fish filet, and saffron rice. I thought it was spectacular! "Bone dry," yes but acrobatic aromatics. green apple, and looong crisp finish. Wish I could buy another case. $8/bottle plus tax and shipping? Are you kidding me?!!!
Great to know it stood up to the spices! I was a little skeptical because of how dry it was, but excited to hear that it still works! Thanks for the review!
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#487 Post by L Harris » November 19th, 2020, 6:47 am

CliffM wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 5:34 am
I tasted 70A two nights ago, and was extremely impressed! Perfectly balanced, aromatic, diverse, and delicious. Notes of blood orange, black and red cherries, red currant, rose petals, tea, and wet rock all competed for my attention throughout the bottle. Pinots are my thing and I would have been just as pleased with this one at $75 a bottle.

I followed it up with 70B last night, and unfortunately had a completely different experience. Nose... nothing really, maybe the slightest hint of cherry. On the palate... cherry, so much freaking cherry. Red cherry, black cherry, and cherry cough drops. The only other thing I could consistently taste was the alcohol. It has a similar abv to 70A, but clearly not as balanced or impressive. This is the first Denegoce wine that has genuinely disappointed me. I’ve had 4, 15, and 70A and loved all three. All these presented at the very least as excellent buys for their price point. However, if 70B doesn’t improve (gonna give the rest of my 70Bs a year in the bottle and a proper decant), I can honestly say even at $15 a bottle, I know I can find better pinots elsewhere.
I just wonder if, despite being bottled at the same time, they're just overcoming bottle shock a bit differently. Cam suggested the wines will evolve back and forth a bunch in the first 3-4 months after bottling. According to my notes they were bottled 9/21/20, so less than 2 months in bottle at this point. Maybe give B a try again in March/April? Hoping that's the case at any rate!
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#488 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 19th, 2020, 9:08 am

PeterH wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 8:34 pm
Opened my first OG tonight, the #37 Viognier. Not an auspicious start. Now I've no right to complain about a wine costing $8 plus tax and shipping ~$11 delivered.

I remember hearing about fifty years ago a line from John Cage's Silences, "Anything is a pleasure unless you would rather be doing something else". I didn't wholly understand that at the time. My father is now 96 yo., and in spite of his limited abilities, considers any moment alive to be a pleasure.
Getting to the point, drinking #37 is a pleasure, except that I'd rather be drinking something else with more character. There is a limited number of wines I will ever drink, and I'm going to make the rest of the Viogniers in that selection other than #37. I'll pay more for Dominio IV, for example, or if I want a top end experience, Condrieu.

There is nothing wrong with #37. It is not overripe, over-oaked, over sulfured (as per a previous note), or underdone. It is just not exciting. At all.
Anyone want some?
HI Peter - tasted this yesterday actually and you are right...not a lot of there there. No fruit, just structure and mouthfeel. I am not surprised...wines grown at altitude tend to take longer to come around in the bottle...give this a few months and I am confident you'll find a much better wine. Cameron

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#489 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 19th, 2020, 9:17 am

L Harris wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 6:47 am
CliffM wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 5:34 am
I tasted 70A two nights ago, and was extremely impressed! Perfectly balanced, aromatic, diverse, and delicious. Notes of blood orange, black and red cherries, red currant, rose petals, tea, and wet rock all competed for my attention throughout the bottle. Pinots are my thing and I would have been just as pleased with this one at $75 a bottle.

I followed it up with 70B last night, and unfortunately had a completely different experience. Nose... nothing really, maybe the slightest hint of cherry. On the palate... cherry, so much freaking cherry. Red cherry, black cherry, and cherry cough drops. The only other thing I could consistently taste was the alcohol. It has a similar abv to 70A, but clearly not as balanced or impressive. This is the first Denegoce wine that has genuinely disappointed me. I’ve had 4, 15, and 70A and loved all three. All these presented at the very least as excellent buys for their price point. However, if 70B doesn’t improve (gonna give the rest of my 70Bs a year in the bottle and a proper decant), I can honestly say even at $15 a bottle, I know I can find better pinots elsewhere.
I just wonder if, despite being bottled at the same time, they're just overcoming bottle shock a bit differently. Cam suggested the wines will evolve back and forth a bunch in the first 3-4 months after bottling. According to my notes they were bottled 9/21/20, so less than 2 months in bottle at this point. Maybe give B a try again in March/April? Hoping that's the case at any rate!
yep...this is bottle shock...these have 5 weeks in the bottle...they are going to be all over the place. If you'd like to try a few more in a couple weeks, you'll see that they are all in totally different places and the wines you liked now suck. I can almost guarantee this.

Again, bottle shock is a constant oscillation between thin and hard and fat and lugubrious that finally dissipates...the swinging that is. Usually about 2-4 months depending on the wine. Then you have super young wine thats swaddled in baby fat and not showing much flavor or fruit. That then needs to dissipate as well so that another couple of months. I know you guys are all anxious to see what you have but, as I have said ad nauseum, its infanticide. Just so you know deadhorse

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#490 Post by matt d » November 19th, 2020, 9:51 am

Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 9:17 am
L Harris wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 6:47 am
CliffM wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 5:34 am
I tasted 70A two nights ago, and was extremely impressed! Perfectly balanced, aromatic, diverse, and delicious. Notes of blood orange, black and red cherries, red currant, rose petals, tea, and wet rock all competed for my attention throughout the bottle. Pinots are my thing and I would have been just as pleased with this one at $75 a bottle.

I followed it up with 70B last night, and unfortunately had a completely different experience. Nose... nothing really, maybe the slightest hint of cherry. On the palate... cherry, so much freaking cherry. Red cherry, black cherry, and cherry cough drops. The only other thing I could consistently taste was the alcohol. It has a similar abv to 70A, but clearly not as balanced or impressive. This is the first Denegoce wine that has genuinely disappointed me. I’ve had 4, 15, and 70A and loved all three. All these presented at the very least as excellent buys for their price point. However, if 70B doesn’t improve (gonna give the rest of my 70Bs a year in the bottle and a proper decant), I can honestly say even at $15 a bottle, I know I can find better pinots elsewhere.
I just wonder if, despite being bottled at the same time, they're just overcoming bottle shock a bit differently. Cam suggested the wines will evolve back and forth a bunch in the first 3-4 months after bottling. According to my notes they were bottled 9/21/20, so less than 2 months in bottle at this point. Maybe give B a try again in March/April? Hoping that's the case at any rate!
yep...this is bottle shock...these have 5 weeks in the bottle...they are going to be all over the place. If you'd like to try a few more in a couple weeks, you'll see that they are all in totally different places and the wines you liked now suck. I can almost guarantee this.

Again, bottle shock is a constant oscillation between thin and hard and fat and lugubrious that finally dissipates...the swinging that is. Usually about 2-4 months depending on the wine. Then you have super young wine thats swaddled in baby fat and not showing much flavor or fruit. That then needs to dissipate as well so that another couple of months. I know you guys are all anxious to see what you have but, as I have said ad nauseum, its infanticide. Just so you know deadhorse
why is it only your wines have this problem. I have had many expensive 2018 cabs that don't seem to have this problem. We have seen plenty of notes on carter, river-Marie, myriad, Caterwaul, etc that are not showing these issues.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#491 Post by DanielP » November 19th, 2020, 10:03 am

matt d wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 9:51 am

why is it only your wines have this problem. I have had many expensive 2018 cabs that don't seem to have this problem. We have seen plenty of notes on carter, river-Marie, myriad, Caterwaul, etc that are not showing these issues.
I don't even understand this. Bottle shock is pretty well known phenomenon. No, de Negoce wines are not the only wines to suffer from bottling shock.

Wineries do not ship their wines to consumers during the bottle shock phase for precisely the reason that they don't want to disappoint their consumers.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#492 Post by Vince L. » November 19th, 2020, 10:08 am

Someone doesn't understand difference between bottle shock (when wine was put into bottle) and vintage year (year the grapes were harvested) it seems.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#493 Post by matt d » November 19th, 2020, 10:55 am

DanielP wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 10:03 am
matt d wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 9:51 am

why is it only your wines have this problem. I have had many expensive 2018 cabs that don't seem to have this problem. We have seen plenty of notes on carter, river-Marie, myriad, Caterwaul, etc that are not showing these issues.
I don't even understand this. Bottle shock is pretty well known phenomenon. No, de Negoce wines are not the only wines to suffer from bottling shock.

Wineries do not ship their wines to consumers during the bottle shock phase for precisely the reason that they don't want to disappoint their consumers.
those wine are bottled in early august / late July so we are 3/4 months in the bottle. for example #17 says bottled 6/26/20 which is the same time as the others were bottled
Vince L. wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 10:08 am
Someone doesn't understand difference between bottle shock (when wine was put into bottle) and vintage year (year the grapes were harvested) it seems.
as I said the earlier ones were bottle at the same time frame as the wine I used as examples, 2,1,17 etc were all bottle in the same timeframe as my examples
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#494 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 19th, 2020, 11:48 am

matt d wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 10:55 am
DanielP wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 10:03 am
matt d wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 9:51 am

why is it only your wines have this problem. I have had many expensive 2018 cabs that don't seem to have this problem. We have seen plenty of notes on carter, river-Marie, myriad, Caterwaul, etc that are not showing these issues.
I don't even understand this. Bottle shock is pretty well known phenomenon. No, de Negoce wines are not the only wines to suffer from bottling shock.

Wineries do not ship their wines to consumers during the bottle shock phase for precisely the reason that they don't want to disappoint their consumers.
those wine are bottled in early august / late July so we are 3/4 months in the bottle. for example #17 says bottled 6/26/20 which is the same time as the others were bottled
Vince L. wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 10:08 am
Someone doesn't understand difference between bottle shock (when wine was put into bottle) and vintage year (year the grapes were harvested) it seems.
as I said the earlier ones were bottle at the same time frame as the wine I used as examples, 2,1,17 etc were all bottle in the same timeframe as my examples
Sorry, what's your point? All the reviews I have read say that #17 is drinking quite well right now. #70, which is the wine that Cam was talking about, was bottled in late September.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#495 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 19th, 2020, 1:48 pm

matt d wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 9:51 am
Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 9:17 am
L Harris wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 6:47 am


I just wonder if, despite being bottled at the same time, they're just overcoming bottle shock a bit differently. Cam suggested the wines will evolve back and forth a bunch in the first 3-4 months after bottling. According to my notes they were bottled 9/21/20, so less than 2 months in bottle at this point. Maybe give B a try again in March/April? Hoping that's the case at any rate!
yep...this is bottle shock...these have 5 weeks in the bottle...they are going to be all over the place. If you'd like to try a few more in a couple weeks, you'll see that they are all in totally different places and the wines you liked now suck. I can almost guarantee this.

Again, bottle shock is a constant oscillation between thin and hard and fat and lugubrious that finally dissipates...the swinging that is. Usually about 2-4 months depending on the wine. Then you have super young wine thats swaddled in baby fat and not showing much flavor or fruit. That then needs to dissipate as well so that another couple of months. I know you guys are all anxious to see what you have but, as I have said ad nauseum, its infanticide. Just so you know deadhorse
why is it only your wines have this problem. I have had many expensive 2018 cabs that don't seem to have this problem. We have seen plenty of notes on carter, river-Marie, myriad, Caterwaul, etc that are not showing these issues.
I doubt any of those wines saw less than 3 or 4 months in the bottle before being shipped out...most of our early releases have gotten through shock phase but wines like N.02 are going to take a while to really come around in the bottle...that's a huge wine. However, what I am talking about above are wines that have 30 days in the bottle...I can virtually guarantee those wines you mentioned do not have 30 days in the bottle. And just because you saw notes on the wine doesn't mean they are not being drunk too young.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#496 Post by L Harris » November 19th, 2020, 4:18 pm

Popped the n.48 PN after reading some of the reviews on here. As stated before nose was immediately there but on the palate was a bit closed. After about 90 mins I poured my second glass and it was like it was a different wine! Tons of beautiful but not overwhelming fruit. I was blown away especially by the difference in just a short decant. Very pleased with this and definitely drinkable already, though recommend a quick decant
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#497 Post by C. Heinsen » November 19th, 2020, 5:31 pm

I'll admit I couldn't help myself. Got the 36 altitude chardonnay today. Popped it and it was amazing. I'd easily pay 30-40 for this. Best value white I have ever had. I'd also say it beats every $25 or less white wines I've ever had.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#498 Post by Peter C. » November 19th, 2020, 6:57 pm

Peter C. wrote:
November 18th, 2020, 3:35 pm
N.25 right off the truck. Freezing up here so the bottle is as well, but already showing pretty well despite that. Dark red cherry, strawberry licorice and some graphite on the nose. After a quick decant very dense and chewy, with some tannin on the back end. Lots of fruit though and def restrained, oak is minimal. Love it and should only improve.
Even better day 2. More aromatic, same mouthfeel. Worth popping one now, I feel this is going to be killer in time.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#499 Post by john mccarty » November 19th, 2020, 9:15 pm

Surprised that I haven't seen any reviews yet of n.05 (2018 Coombsville Napa Cab), but because I missed this on release, I bought this blind on exchange anyway, because I still remember Cam's astonishing (for me) 2012 and 2013 Coombsville Cab releases (which put Coombsville on the map for me).

Drank this tonight with grilled Wagyu burgers: the bouquet of raspberry, cassis, and volcanic rock gives only a glimpse of what's to come. Intense blackberry, chocolate, and liquorice on the palate, with perfect acid balance, and with a looong beautiful finish supported by smooth tannins. Deep and extracted, this is classic Coombsville with an unmistakable signature. Immensely pleasurable now, I expect this to improve for many years, but sadly, I'm unlikely able to resist until it peaks. It will be tough enough to wait to compare this to the N.29!

I liked n.17, loved n.20, but this takes the cake so far...

If you disagree, and live in the Bay Ares, let me know via denegociants.com and I'll be happy to relieve you of any unwanted stock...

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#500 Post by Peter C. » November 20th, 2020, 1:57 pm

N.49 Pobega'd off the truck, another winner. Certainly not as deep or complex as N.25, but it's half the cost. Very vibrant and pure fruit, no discernible oak which is a plus. Was expecting/hoping these would drink well early and this peek is a nice confirmation.

Aromatically it has to come together, but it most likely just needs several more months in bottle.
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