What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

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David Buck
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#401 Post by David Buck » November 9th, 2020, 6:35 am

MatthewT wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 5:21 am
#42 (one I bought) and was pretty hyped has 2 very blah reviews thus far:

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp? ... 9f354d6d6d
Yeah but Cam came on and specifically defended that wine so hopefully we still good..

Heheh, don't worry about this review Frank. That wine has two months in the bottle and still is deeply bottle shocked...it'll come around, promise, and you won't be gifting them unless its someone special.

Speaking of devil....42 just got dropped off. Didnt have to sign.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#402 Post by MatthewT » November 9th, 2020, 7:31 am

David Buck wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 6:35 am
MatthewT wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 5:21 am
#42 (one I bought) and was pretty hyped has 2 very blah reviews thus far:

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp? ... 9f354d6d6d
Yeah but Cam came on and specifically defended that wine so hopefully we still good..

Heheh, don't worry about this review Frank. That wine has two months in the bottle and still is deeply bottle shocked...it'll come around, promise, and you won't be gifting them unless its someone special.
That's true that was impressive. I forgot.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#403 Post by Sean S y d n e y » November 9th, 2020, 7:38 am

Benjg wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 3:45 am
I’m a Tablas Creek member and drank a number of Patelin de Tablas rosés this summer and I can tell you that #55 is not the same wine.
Did the description say it was the same bottling as the "official" one?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#404 Post by matt d » November 9th, 2020, 7:47 am

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 7:38 am
Benjg wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 3:45 am
I’m a Tablas Creek member and drank a number of Patelin de Tablas rosés this summer and I can tell you that #55 is not the same wine.
Did the description say it was the same bottling as the "official" one?
from cam "Like I said in the email, its got a couple mid-90's scores from prominent critics and we've bottled the same wine. Its a steal, of course."
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#405 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 9th, 2020, 7:54 am

Benjg wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 3:45 am
On the Tablas Creek website they describe using 3 different grapes in the final blend. My guess is that #55 is excess juice of one of 3 varietals or a blend in much different percentages.
de Negoce N.55 2019 Paso Robles Rose: 76% Grenache, 19% Mourvedre, 5% Counoise. 13.2% alc.
Like I said in the email, its got a couple mid-90's scores from prominent critics and we've bottled the same wine
Tablas Creek 2019 Patelin de Tablas Rosé: 76% Grenache, 19% Mourvedre, 5% Counoise, 13.0% Alcohol by Volume


I'm not denying that it may not be the same wine, but certainly the blending ratios seem to be the same.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#406 Post by Max S. » November 9th, 2020, 10:02 am

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 7:54 am

Tablas Creek 2019 Patelin de Tablas Rosé: 76% Grenache, 19% Mourvedre, 5% Counoise, 13.0% Alcohol by Volume


I'm not denying that it may not be the same wine, but certainly the blending ratios seem to be the same.
The thing that always got me about this is, how easy would it be to throw a couple of similar tasting notes are a matching blend in to throw people off the scent of the real winery? And if these wineries take the NDAs seriously, this could be an important aspect of their agreements.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#407 Post by Benjg » November 9th, 2020, 10:09 am

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 7:54 am
Benjg wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 3:45 am
On the Tablas Creek website they describe using 3 different grapes in the final blend. My guess is that #55 is excess juice of one of 3 varietals or a blend in much different percentages.
de Negoce N.55 2019 Paso Robles Rose: 76% Grenache, 19% Mourvedre, 5% Counoise. 13.2% alc.
Like I said in the email, its got a couple mid-90's scores from prominent critics and we've bottled the same wine
Tablas Creek 2019 Patelin de Tablas Rosé: 76% Grenache, 19% Mourvedre, 5% Counoise, 13.0% Alcohol by Volume


I'm not denying that it may not be the same wine, but certainly the blending ratios seem to be the same.
Looks like you’re right on the blending ratios. I have no idea if it’s the same wine that Tablas Creek sells or not, but the flavor profile is definitely muted on the DN and the nose on the Tablas Creek is much more intense. Could all these differences be due to bottle shock or is our guess on the winery completely wrong??? Like I said, the DN isn’t a bad wine in any way and for $9 it’s fine, but for $10 more per bottle I prefer the TC.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#408 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 9th, 2020, 10:14 am

Benjg wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 10:09 am
Looks like you’re right on the blending ratios. I have no idea if it’s the same wine that Tablas Creek sells or not, but the flavor profile is definitely muted on the DN and the nose on the Tablas Creek is much more intense. Could all these differences be due to bottle shock or is our guess on the winery completely wrong??? Like I said, the DN isn’t a bad wine in any way and for $9 it’s fine, but for $10 more per bottle I prefer the TC.
No idea. Technically Cam calling it the "winery's blend" gives him some wiggle room to use the same varietals as the Tablas Creek but inferior juice that didn't make the cut. In the past we've just glossed over that and assumed that it was essentially the same juice as the advertised wine, but over time I am becoming more skeptical.

Cam calls it "bottle shock" but I have my doubts that it will ever reach the heights that we hope it will.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#409 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 9th, 2020, 10:22 am

Jim Marmion wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 6:07 am
I popped my first bottle of #17 on Friday but found it so tannic that I couldn't take any pleasure from it until Sunday night. Other reviews here an on CT suggest my experience was unusual. Has anybody else experienced this at a similar level?
You guys are going to have various impressions of the wines as they swing wildly at this young age from week to week...this oscillation is the nature of bottle shock...one week lean and taught, the other fat and rich. Most of the early bottlings will start to settle in now but they still swing around depending on the wine. Its worth watching and then coming back to wine in three months to see where its at. I am confident you'll have a much better experience.

Having said that, a good Napa Cabernet really needs a year to really settle in and develop bottle bouquet, mid-palate complexity, etc. Take a look at the latest Wine Spectator Cabernet report...there is a reason most of the Cabernet's in there are '16 and '17. Like I've said, its interesting to watch the evolution and I know you want to see what you've "got" (as I have done about a 1000 times now) but its really infanticide to drink these Cabernet's now. They are almost all going to be quite awkward.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#410 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 9th, 2020, 10:23 am

Chris Crutchfield wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 10:14 am
Benjg wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 10:09 am
Looks like you’re right on the blending ratios. I have no idea if it’s the same wine that Tablas Creek sells or not, but the flavor profile is definitely muted on the DN and the nose on the Tablas Creek is much more intense. Could all these differences be due to bottle shock or is our guess on the winery completely wrong??? Like I said, the DN isn’t a bad wine in any way and for $9 it’s fine, but for $10 more per bottle I prefer the TC.
No idea. Technically Cam calling it the "winery's blend" gives him some wiggle room to use the same varietals as the Tablas Creek but inferior juice that didn't make the cut. In the past we've just glossed over that and assumed that it was essentially the same juice as the advertised wine, but over time I am becoming more skeptical.

Cam calls it "bottle shock" but I have my doubts that it will ever reach the heights that we hope it will.
that wine was bottled October 21st...trust me its bottle shock you are experiencing.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#411 Post by Mike R » November 9th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Cam - thanks for replying. One of the few wines I've received from DN that I really disliked was the N 14. I can't imagine it is bottle shock at this point as I've had it for months now, but I've popped 3x of these, and not a single one had any nose or substantial taste. It tastes and smells as if someone had taken a barrel of rose, and then mixed it 50/50 with water before bottling. This weekend I opened two of these with other wine drinkers and everyone thought the same thing... flavorless. Any idea why this might be?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#412 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 9th, 2020, 2:47 pm

Mike R wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Cam - thanks for replying. One of the few wines I've received from DN that I really disliked was the N 14. I can't imagine it is bottle shock at this point as I've had it for months now, but I've popped 3x of these, and not a single one had any nose or substantial taste. It tastes and smells as if someone had taken a barrel of rose, and then mixed it 50/50 with water before bottling. This weekend I opened two of these with other wine drinkers and everyone thought the same thing... flavorless. Any idea why this might be?
IMO you're not going to get a good answer for this on a public forum. I'd suggest e-mailing dN and expressing that you do not enjoy N.14 and try to work it out with them.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#413 Post by R Scott Hughes » November 9th, 2020, 3:10 pm

FWIW - I popped an OG27 Cab the day after it arrived and another one 3 weeks later. Granted, the first one was PnP and the second I gave a 2-hour decant - but these were markedly different wines with the first being confused and disjointed and the second showing promising signs of what it could be.

I don't have much (any) experience tasting very young wines over time but the fact that we are seeing tasting notes for the same wine sounding like distinctly different wines does give credence to Cam's assertion that these will be all over the place for the next few months or longer.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#414 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 9th, 2020, 4:58 pm

Mike R wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Cam - thanks for replying. One of the few wines I've received from DN that I really disliked was the N 14. I can't imagine it is bottle shock at this point as I've had it for months now, but I've popped 3x of these, and not a single one had any nose or substantial taste. It tastes and smells as if someone had taken a barrel of rose, and then mixed it 50/50 with water before bottling. This weekend I opened two of these with other wine drinkers and everyone thought the same thing... flavorless. Any idea why this might be?
HI Mike - on the outside of the shipper should have been a bottling date...we bottled half of the wine in late August and I imagine that's what you have there. I opened a bottle of the late August bottling within the week and it was still pretty tight.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#415 Post by Mike R » November 9th, 2020, 6:12 pm

Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 4:58 pm
Mike R wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Cam - thanks for replying. One of the few wines I've received from DN that I really disliked was the N 14. I can't imagine it is bottle shock at this point as I've had it for months now, but I've popped 3x of these, and not a single one had any nose or substantial taste. It tastes and smells as if someone had taken a barrel of rose, and then mixed it 50/50 with water before bottling. This weekend I opened two of these with other wine drinkers and everyone thought the same thing... flavorless. Any idea why this might be?
HI Mike - on the outside of the shipper should have been a bottling date...we bottled half of the wine in late August and I imagine that's what you have there. I opened a bottle of the late August bottling within the week and it was still pretty tight.

Cameron
Hi Cam,

Again, thank you for the reply. These were bottled in July. The reason I’m asking is because I feel like *something* is wrong with these, just not sure what it might be. If it’s just a matter of me not liking it, that is fine, but I’m just curious if there is something I’m missing here.

Thanks,
Mike
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#416 Post by Jim Marmion » November 9th, 2020, 7:23 pm

Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 10:22 am
Jim Marmion wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 6:07 am
I popped my first bottle of #17 on Friday but found it so tannic that I couldn't take any pleasure from it until Sunday night. Other reviews here an on CT suggest my experience was unusual. Has anybody else experienced this at a similar level?
You guys are going to have various impressions of the wines as they swing wildly at this young age from week to week...this oscillation is the nature of bottle shock...one week lean and taught, the other fat and rich. Most of the early bottlings will start to settle in now but they still swing around depending on the wine. Its worth watching and then coming back to wine in three months to see where its at. I am confident you'll have a much better experience.

Having said that, a good Napa Cabernet really needs a year to really settle in and develop bottle bouquet, mid-palate complexity, etc. Take a look at the latest Wine Spectator Cabernet report...there is a reason most of the Cabernet's in there are '16 and '17. Like I've said, its interesting to watch the evolution and I know you want to see what you've "got" (as I have done about a 1000 times now) but its really infanticide to drink these Cabernet's now. They are almost all going to be quite awkward.
Thanks for the sage advice. I'm going to have a couple more of the Californian cabs and then two of the Walla Walla coming. Will take a bottle from each for trying in the shorter term then dispatch the rest to a discreet cellar corner for a year or two. As problems go this isn't a bad one to have - and thanks for getting us sufficiently excited that we're all just a little disappointed to have to postpone our satisfaction!

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#417 Post by G. D y e r » November 10th, 2020, 8:35 am

The tricky part is the value play. Opened early dN will underperform relative to potential . . . . but thus far what I've tasted is a class above $15-$20 wine. From that perspective, I'm not using them as house wines by any means, but at least a few will get picked off early.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#418 Post by rsmithjr » November 11th, 2020, 3:29 pm

#21 Atlas Peak
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#419 Post by Jonah P » November 11th, 2020, 4:19 pm

Had my first had experience with DN this weekend. Opened 23, 25, and 35 to go with a fish soup with the only other member of my DN buyers club (we've got over 60 cases ordered). Overall it was a good showing, no duds. 35 was consensus last place, nothing wrong with it, just not my cup of tea. A bit grassy and not much weight. I'd be happy to serve it at a party and didn't mind it (it was slightly improved on day two) I just don't see picking it over the other wines I have. 23 was solid. Not too buttery/oakey, but still plenty going on. I'd be happy to find that on sale for $20 and believe it was a solid $35 CA chard. 25 was clearly the best of the bunch. Not ready for primetime, but on its way to a really good place I think, and enjoyable with a 3+ hour decant (this was the only one that was finished off so no day 2 notes, but that is a compliment). I don't know how I'm going to judge these wines on arrival. I don't drink 2 year old cabs. I think I just have to put them away and come back in a couple of years. I'm very interested to know what you all think though, so keep opening them up.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#420 Post by Bryan Cottriel » November 11th, 2020, 7:59 pm

Drinking 12 tonight...It sure is an easy drinker. The consensus in the house is I should have bought more of the whites and pinots that we purchased.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#421 Post by Mike R » November 11th, 2020, 8:50 pm

Bryan Cottriel wrote:
November 11th, 2020, 7:59 pm
Drinking 12 tonight...It sure is an easy drinker. The consensus in the house is I should have bought more of the whites and pinots that we purchased.
My two favorites so far of the 7 that I’ve tried have been whites and my third favorite is a Pinot.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#422 Post by MikeHill » November 11th, 2020, 9:51 pm

Jonah P wrote:
November 11th, 2020, 4:19 pm
Had my first had experience with DN this weekend. Opened 23, 25, and 35 to go with a fish soup with the only other member of my DN buyers club (we've got over 60 cases ordered). Overall it was a good showing, no duds. 35 was consensus last place, nothing wrong with it, just not my cup of tea. A bit grassy and not much weight. I'd be happy to serve it at a party and didn't mind it (it was slightly improved on day two) I just don't see picking it over the other wines I have. 23 was solid. Not too buttery/oakey, but still plenty going on. I'd be happy to find that on sale for $20 and believe it was a solid $35 CA chard. 25 was clearly the best of the bunch. Not ready for primetime, but on its way to a really good place I think, and enjoyable with a 3+ hour decant (this was the only one that was finished off so no day 2 notes, but that is a compliment). I don't know how I'm going to judge these wines on arrival. I don't drink 2 year old cabs. I think I just have to put them away and come back in a couple of years. I'm very interested to know what you all think though, so keep opening them up.
I had the 25 Spring Mountain cab the other night and was also pleased. Decanted 4+ hours, saved half for day 2. It changed a lot and was shut down most of day 1, but by the second day had settled into a classic Napa mountain cab profile...dark red fruit, good structure, nice acidity, still lean, but not thin. It needs a looong decant or a few years to come together, but it easily drank 2-3x what I paid.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#423 Post by rsmithjr » November 12th, 2020, 5:09 am

#21 Dark, Opaque, deep black fruits, muted spice. This will be a beauty in 2 years. 91 points.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#424 Post by Toby P » November 12th, 2020, 7:18 am

Mike R wrote:
November 11th, 2020, 8:50 pm
Bryan Cottriel wrote:
November 11th, 2020, 7:59 pm
Drinking 12 tonight...It sure is an easy drinker. The consensus in the house is I should have bought more of the whites and pinots that we purchased.
My two favorites so far of the 7 that I’ve tried have been whites and my third favorite is a Pinot.
This would align with the idea that the whites / pinots are far more ready to drink now, which is completely logical and also in line with what Cam has said. Most of the cab notes seem pretty good but also overwhelming consensus that they need plenty of time (and a long decant just to reveal anything now) - at least for the more premium cab offerings. Which all would make total sense if you generally believe in the quality of the sources for those cabs
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#425 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 12th, 2020, 8:57 am

Toby P wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 7:18 am
Mike R wrote:
November 11th, 2020, 8:50 pm
Bryan Cottriel wrote:
November 11th, 2020, 7:59 pm
Drinking 12 tonight...It sure is an easy drinker. The consensus in the house is I should have bought more of the whites and pinots that we purchased.
My two favorites so far of the 7 that I’ve tried have been whites and my third favorite is a Pinot.
This would align with the idea that the whites / pinots are far more ready to drink now, which is completely logical and also in line with what Cam has said. Most of the cab notes seem pretty good but also overwhelming consensus that they need plenty of time (and a long decant just to reveal anything now) - at least for the more premium cab offerings. Which all would make total sense if you generally believe in the quality of the sources for those cabs
Correct. The whites tend to get pretty approachable with two months in the bottle but, of course, continue to flesh out in the bottle for another 4 or 5. Pinot can be fickle but 3 months usually does the trick with domestic product. Having saids that, I was amazed at how quickly N.24 Carneros PN came around...6 weeks and it was GTG. You can chalk a lot of this up to folks getting their cross flow filters dialed in...there are lots of different ways to use a cross flow, different medium and techniques to minimize filtration effects while beneficially cleaning the wine up. The technology continues to improve and the effects are noticeable.

And, yes, big cabs need 6 months in the bottle to really come around and, even then you really shouldn't play with them for 12.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#426 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 12th, 2020, 9:03 am

Jim Marmion wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 10:22 am
Jim Marmion wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 6:07 am
I popped my first bottle of #17 on Friday but found it so tannic that I couldn't take any pleasure from it until Sunday night. Other reviews here an on CT suggest my experience was unusual. Has anybody else experienced this at a similar level?
You guys are going to have various impressions of the wines as they swing wildly at this young age from week to week...this oscillation is the nature of bottle shock...one week lean and taught, the other fat and rich. Most of the early bottlings will start to settle in now but they still swing around depending on the wine. Its worth watching and then coming back to wine in three months to see where its at. I am confident you'll have a much better experience.

Having said that, a good Napa Cabernet really needs a year to really settle in and develop bottle bouquet, mid-palate complexity, etc. Take a look at the latest Wine Spectator Cabernet report...there is a reason most of the Cabernet's in there are '16 and '17. Like I've said, its interesting to watch the evolution and I know you want to see what you've "got" (as I have done about a 1000 times now) but its really infanticide to drink these Cabernet's now. They are almost all going to be quite awkward.
Thanks for the sage advice. I'm going to have a couple more of the Californian cabs and then two of the Walla Walla coming. Will take a bottle from each for trying in the shorter term then dispatch the rest to a discreet cellar corner for a year or two. As problems go this isn't a bad one to have - and thanks for getting us sufficiently excited that we're all just a little disappointed to have to postpone our satisfaction!
Yeah, I figured this would be a problem...we are not, culturally, into delayed gratification [wink.gif]

I have to say I do sleep easy at night though. I know what went into the bottle here and I am confident that, in the long run, you will all be quite satisfied. A certain wine may not be your preferred style, but the quality will be undeniable. Besides, you guys can always trade. I am sure some enterprising customer will create some sort of trading floor for the offerings in the future. Would do it myself but ain't got the time.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#427 Post by Nate Simon » November 12th, 2020, 9:28 am

Berserkers: “I opened this De Negoce Napa Cabernet a month after it was bottled and I was underwhelmed. Really regretting my case purchase.”

Also Berserkers: “You were underwhelmed by that 10-year-old Grand Cru Burgundy? You idiot! Everyone knows that Musigny needs at least 20 years!”

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#428 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 12th, 2020, 9:34 am

Nate Simon wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 9:28 am
Berserkers: “I opened this De Negoce Napa Cabernet a month after it was bottled and I was underwhelmed. Really regretting my case purchase.”

Also Berserkers: “You were underwhelmed by that 10-year-old Grand Cru Burgundy? You idiot! Everyone knows that Musigny needs at least 20 years!”
[rofl.gif]

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#429 Post by Jonah P » November 12th, 2020, 9:59 am

Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 9:03 am
Jim Marmion wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 10:22 am


You guys are going to have various impressions of the wines as they swing wildly at this young age from week to week...this oscillation is the nature of bottle shock...one week lean and taught, the other fat and rich. Most of the early bottlings will start to settle in now but they still swing around depending on the wine. Its worth watching and then coming back to wine in three months to see where its at. I am confident you'll have a much better experience.

Having said that, a good Napa Cabernet really needs a year to really settle in and develop bottle bouquet, mid-palate complexity, etc. Take a look at the latest Wine Spectator Cabernet report...there is a reason most of the Cabernet's in there are '16 and '17. Like I've said, its interesting to watch the evolution and I know you want to see what you've "got" (as I have done about a 1000 times now) but its really infanticide to drink these Cabernet's now. They are almost all going to be quite awkward.
Thanks for the sage advice. I'm going to have a couple more of the Californian cabs and then two of the Walla Walla coming. Will take a bottle from each for trying in the shorter term then dispatch the rest to a discreet cellar corner for a year or two. As problems go this isn't a bad one to have - and thanks for getting us sufficiently excited that we're all just a little disappointed to have to postpone our satisfaction!
Yeah, I figured this would be a problem...we are not, culturally, into delayed gratification [wink.gif]

I have to say I do sleep easy at night though. I know what went into the bottle here and I am confident that, in the long run, you will all be quite satisfied. A certain wine may not be your preferred style, but the quality will be undeniable. Besides, you guys can always trade. I am sure some enterprising customer will create some sort of trading floor for the offerings in the future. Would do it myself but ain't got the time.
Cam (or anyone else), can you help me understand phase two of the big cab waiting game, described to me as the "dumb phase". I've seen wines, after the initial bottle shock, taste amazing and then totally shut down a few months later, only to start hitting their stride a couple of years after that. Is this a thing? If so is there a way to plan for it? I realize all of this is subjective, but as a wine seller somewhat at the mercy of cellar tracker notes, don't you want to guide folks to drinking at the right time? I had no intention of drinking any of these cabs before 2022, but now that I'm looking at 25+ cases, I do need to get the timing right.
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David Buck
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#430 Post by David Buck » November 12th, 2020, 2:43 pm

Thought this was excellent link on aging of Cab..VARIABLE is sure the key and Cams wines are so different that one answer is impossible I would think...

https://alcohol.stackexchange.com/quest ... -sauvignon

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#431 Post by CliffM » November 12th, 2020, 5:44 pm

Poured OG 15 fresh off the UPS truck today (it was a repost case a couple weeks ago). I was hyped for this Merlot that's possibly from Nickel and Nickel, and man did it deliver! Absolutely positively drinkable and enjoyable right now. Would it be even better in a year or two sure, but these guys will be lucky to see 2021 the way they’re drinking now. For $15 a bottle (shipped with tax) this is a text book cellar defender for me. Windmill slam all the way!!!
Last edited by CliffM on November 12th, 2020, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#432 Post by Cameron Hughes » November 12th, 2020, 6:23 pm

CliffM wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 5:44 pm
Poured OG 15 fresh off the UPS truck today (it was a repost case a couple weeks ago). I was hyped for this Merlot that's from possibly Nickel and Nickel, and man did it deliver! Absolutely positively drinkable and enjoyable right now. Would it be even better in a year or two sure, but these guys will be lucky to see 2021 the way they’re drinking now. For $15 a bottle (shipped with tax) this is a text book cellar defender for me. Windmill slam all the way!!!
woop woop [thankyou.gif]

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#433 Post by CliffM » November 12th, 2020, 7:35 pm

Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 6:23 pm
CliffM wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 5:44 pm
Poured OG 15 fresh off the UPS truck today (it was a repost case a couple weeks ago). I was hyped for this Merlot that's possibly from Nickel and Nickel, and man did it deliver! Absolutely positively drinkable and enjoyable right now. Would it be even better in a year or two sure, but these guys will be lucky to see 2021 the way they’re drinking now. For $15 a bottle (shipped with tax) this is a text book cellar defender for me. Windmill slam all the way!!!
woop woop [thankyou.gif]
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#434 Post by Chris Crutchfield » November 12th, 2020, 8:10 pm

Opened N.60 Yountville Cabernet tonight. This was the Sleeping Lady Vineyards wine @ $25/bottle. It's nice, has a bit more body and tannins than N.40, but a bit less acidity. Both of those wines are fruit forward but N.60 is more on the spectrum of ripe black fruit. Overall, I think it's a nice wine, but in terms of QPR N.40 seems like a better deal.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#435 Post by Brent Butler » November 13th, 2020, 4:20 pm

Drinking a N.29 (Napa cab, Coombsville, hillside; Hertelendy? $18, bottled 7/21). No proper decant but bottle has been opened for two hours. Stuffed shells with red meat sauce is meal. Maybe my best dN wine experience so far. Not qualified to give tasting notes but loving this bottle.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#436 Post by David Buck » November 13th, 2020, 4:36 pm

Brent Butler wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 4:20 pm
Drinking a N.29 (Napa cab, Coombsville, hillside; Hertelendy? $18, bottled 7/21). No proper decant but bottle has been opened for two hours. Stuffed shells with red meat sauce is meal. Maybe my best dN wine experience so far. Not qualified to give tasting notes but loving this bottle.
I have been waiting for someone on 29...Thanks Brent...Makes me wish I got that tri-pack from hillside. Reviews are just awesome for Hertelendy if its that. I just got the 29. Guess deft hand is a winner.

"Clearly these are expertly made with a deft hand"

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#437 Post by MatthewT » November 13th, 2020, 5:00 pm

David Buck wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 4:36 pm
Brent Butler wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 4:20 pm
Drinking a N.29 (Napa cab, Coombsville, hillside; Hertelendy? $18, bottled 7/21). No proper decant but bottle has been opened for two hours. Stuffed shells with red meat sauce is meal. Maybe my best dN wine experience so far. Not qualified to give tasting notes but loving this bottle.
I have been waiting for someone on 29...Thanks Brent...Makes me wish I got that tri-pack from hillside. Reviews are just awesome for Hertelendy if its that. I just got the 29. Guess deft hand is a winner.

"Clearly these are expertly made with a deft hand"
I thought "the tell" with that collection was him offering it to top customers first. You don't do that with something that's not a lock.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#438 Post by mikepf1 » November 13th, 2020, 8:26 pm

Received the 46 this evening. Met the driver with wine-opener in hand. Pop-n-pour. Not going to attempt a note but will say I thoroughly enjoyed and, more importantly, so did the wife. Definitely young but lots of upside. Will buy more if it comes available. [winner.gif]

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#439 Post by Andreas Birnik » November 14th, 2020, 2:33 pm

Cameron Hughes wrote:
November 9th, 2020, 10:22 am

I have to say I do sleep easy at night though. I know what went into the bottle here and I am confident that, in the long run, you will all be quite satisfied. A certain wine may not be your preferred style, but the quality will be undeniable. Besides, you guys can always trade. I am sure some enterprising customer will create some sort of trading floor for the offerings in the future. Would do it myself but ain't got the time.
@Cameron Hughes. There are two platforms to swap / trade de Négoce bottles already built and open to the community.

We built Case Splitter for our Singapore wine club and decided to release it openly since it was built to work for any country anyway. There are now Case Splitter users in 24 US States + Washington DC. Some clusters are big. Notably SF Bay Area, Los Angeles + Orange County, Dallas + Fort Worth, Southern Florida, Washington + Baltimore, New York and Boston. And then there are many smaller clusters throughout the lower 48.

http://www.casesplitter.com/start-sharing-case

The way this works is that users sign-up and they can then send out "proximity" e-mails to lasso their local area for people interested in splitting cases of wine, selling bottles or organizing wine tasting events.

There is another initiative called de Negociants that offers a Wine Exchange Feature as well.

https://denegociants.com/
Join Case Splitter to find people in your local area to split cases of wine with or to organize local wine tasting events.
http://www.casesplitter.com/start-sharing-case

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#440 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » November 14th, 2020, 3:14 pm

Popped N.42 Bordeaux blend/primarily cabernet. Believed to be 2018 Boeschen. Triple decanted and poured immediately after. This wine is FANTASTIC. Not $125 good, but I’d be happy with this if I paid $75, maybe a bit more.

It is definitely young, but is surprisingly drinkable. There is a lot of upside for this one. Currently has loads of dark fruit and noticeable but not overdone oak. Nice acidity but still pleasant on its own. We’re having filets and will try to save a glass for that but it might not make it. Definitely a great buy and the best DN I’ve had yet. Also had 1, 5, 8, 15.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#441 Post by Eric White » November 14th, 2020, 3:37 pm

Good news Chris, thanks for the note!

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#442 Post by Brent Butler » November 14th, 2020, 4:30 pm

N.28 tonight. 2nd in the hillside cab collection. Not at all the same wine as N.29 from last night but just as good. Has that high-end Napa cab thing going. Again, I don’t have the experience to give tasting notes but I drink enough to say this is solid and no one would mistake it for a $20 grocery store cab. It will be interesting to follow these for a few years.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#443 Post by PeterH » November 14th, 2020, 8:34 pm

Opened my first OG tonight, the #37 Viognier. Not an auspicious start. Now I've no right to complain about a wine costing $8 plus tax and shipping ~$11 delivered.

I remember hearing about fifty years ago a line from John Cage's Silences, "Anything is a pleasure unless you would rather be doing something else". I didn't wholly understand that at the time. My father is now 96 yo., and in spite of his limited abilities, considers any moment alive to be a pleasure.
Getting to the point, drinking #37 is a pleasure, except that I'd rather be drinking something else with more character. There is a limited number of wines I will ever drink, and I'm going to make the rest of the Viogniers in that selection other than #37. I'll pay more for Dominio IV, for example, or if I want a top end experience, Condrieu.

There is nothing wrong with #37. It is not overripe, over-oaked, over sulfured (as per a previous note), or underdone. It is just not exciting. At all.
Anyone want some?
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#444 Post by rsmithjr » November 15th, 2020, 2:40 pm

# 19 Santa Cruz PN was good. The nose opened immediately, the flavors took a bit but decent. I am expecting it will improve with age.
Roger Smith- Longtime wine drinker and bon vivant' and unofficial De Negoce' FANBOY.....

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#445 Post by John O' » November 16th, 2020, 3:21 am

# 4 Merlot. 1 hour decant. Very nice
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#446 Post by <hr!s.L » November 16th, 2020, 9:50 am

PeterH wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 8:34 pm
Opened my first OG tonight, the #37 Viognier. Not an auspicious start. Now I've no right to complain about a wine costing $8 plus tax and shipping ~$11 delivered.

I remember hearing about fifty years ago a line from John Cage's Silences, "Anything is a pleasure unless you would rather be doing something else". I didn't wholly understand that at the time. My father is now 96 yo., and in spite of his limited abilities, considers any moment alive to be a pleasure.
Getting to the point, drinking #37 is a pleasure, except that I'd rather be drinking something else with more character. There is a limited number of wines I will ever drink, and I'm going to make the rest of the Viogniers in that selection other than #37. I'll pay more for Dominio IV, for example, or if I want a top end experience, Condrieu.

There is nothing wrong with #37. It is not overripe, over-oaked, over sulfured (as per a previous note), or underdone. It is just not exciting. At all.
Anyone want some?
I love this review. Thanks for sharing!
L @ n g l 0 i s

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#447 Post by Chris H. » November 16th, 2020, 3:25 pm

Just got in my first case of De Negoce, OG N.43 2018 Napa (Oakville/St. Helena), and couldn't resist popping a bottle for "science".

This is showing quite well right off of the UPS Truck, with a nose cherries, currants, spice, and a touch of oak. Tannins are present, so is a spine of acidity. For $12.50+shipping/bottle this is a good deal, and I feel like this is money well spent. For fans of middle of the road (stylistically), I think you'll like this. For some reason, this reminds me of Frog's Leap style, that's the closest approximation. This is not a fleshy, Parkerized cab (at least yet). Another cab this would remind me of, is the Sonoma appellation cab that Bedrock released over the last few years for around $28, this is close to that as well.

Again these are very initial thoughts.

Overall pleased with the purchase!!
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#448 Post by DanielP » November 16th, 2020, 7:02 pm

Finished 3/4 of N.21 that I had coravined a few weeks ago. My initial impressions were that it was very disjointed and awkward.

This weekend, perhaps with the help of some headspace and a touch of oxygen, this drank very well. Oak is somewhat prominent but integrated over the course of the night. It could use another year but I think the quality of the juice is pretty apparent. Would rank it behind N.28, but I'm very pleased with N.21, 25, and 28 so far and look forward to sampling 40 and 42 in the not too distant future.
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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#449 Post by Dmytro Marushkevych » November 16th, 2020, 9:28 pm

Had #35 a couple of times. Typical Cali Fume Blanc. Was hoping for some grassiness and nerve, but got tropicals instead. Definitely not bad, but a proof that California cannot make a good Sauvignon Blanc.

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Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#450 Post by Dmytro Marushkevych » November 16th, 2020, 9:31 pm

#37: a good Viognier. Definitely worth what I paid for it at DN. Is it worth $35? Nope.

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