What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

[Chris Crutchfield]

Opened #51 Cab Franc last night. It was good but not remarkable. I still haven't quite figured these wines out yet. They are good but I have not gotten a wow factor from any of them yet. They all taste just a bit "dead" with very little aromatics. I hope time will do the trick because there does see m to be some good stuff hiding in there somewhere.

Weird, I had the opposite impression from #51. I thought it was quite excellent. However, it’s clearly made in a more old world style, so it’s not going to be that riper style you might expect from a CA cab franc.

[PeterJ]

I’ve been reading these tasting notes since the beginning and find them helpful but I do have to ask how often people here drink wines within the first few months after bottling. I know that ‘better’ wines aren’t even released for sale until at least a year and very often longer. Supermarket brands likely don’t hold back but wines in the league these wines are supposed to be in surely do.

Two things: 1) With the cost of money I’d think wineries wouldn’t hold wine if they didn’t think it benefited the drinking experience (possible image building understood). 2) I’ve done some barrel tasting over the years and have always been told that early tasting doesn’t give the full expression of the wine that early on.

So...... why are so many here denigrating wines they’ve been expressly warned aren’t ready to drink? I get the notion of wanting to try them early just for the experience, and also know that many people intentionally follow a wine’s development when they’ve bought multiple bottles. I also know that $200 wine for $18 ‘disappointment syndrome’ can cause harsh analysis among some. Are we just witnessing normal random human behavior here or is there any reasonable way these early judgements can be defended as anything other than opinions like any other?

[Bdklein]

I’ve been reading these tasting notes since the beginning and find them helpful but I do have to ask how often people here drink wines within the first few months after bottling. I know that ‘better’ wines aren’t even released for sale until at least a year and very often longer. Supermarket brands likely don’t hold back but wines in the league these wines are supposed to be in surely do.

Two things: 1) With the cost of money I’d think wineries wouldn’t hold wine if they didn’t think it benefited the drinking experience (possible image building understood). 2) I’ve done some barrel tasting over the years and have always been told that early tasting doesn’t give the full expression of the wine that early on.

So...... why are so many here denigrating wines they’ve been expressly warned aren’t ready to drink? I get the notion of wanting to try them early just for the experience, and also know that many people intentionally follow a wine’s development when they’ve bought multiple bottles. I also know that $200 wine for $18 ‘disappointment syndrome’ can cause harsh analysis among some. Are we just witnessing normal random human behavior here or is there any reasonable way these early judgements can be defended as anything other than opinions like any other?

Bizarre to me too. Especially when the maker tells you to wait a bit to open .

[David Buck]

Bizarre to me too. Especially when the maker tells you to wait a bit to open .

On this subject of "when to open"....Any of the pros here have a general date for the high end cabs? Summer 21? That would be a year in bottle?

My cab cases in cooler: 20, 21, 25, 29, 42, 40, 59, 78, 100.

I think its just human nature that people are frustrated you cant drink them yet..

[Mark Morrissette]

I’ve been reading these tasting notes since the beginning and find them helpful but I do have to ask how often people here drink wines within the first few months after bottling. I know that ‘better’ wines aren’t even released for sale until at least a year and very often longer. Supermarket brands likely don’t hold back but wines in the league these wines are supposed to be in surely do.

Two things: 1) With the cost of money I’d think wineries wouldn’t hold wine if they didn’t think it benefited the drinking experience (possible image building understood). 2) I’ve done some barrel tasting over the years and have always been told that early tasting doesn’t give the full expression of the wine that early on.

So...... why are so many here denigrating wines they’ve been expressly warned aren’t ready to drink? I get the notion of wanting to try them early just for the experience, and also know that many people intentionally follow a wine’s development when they’ve bought multiple bottles. I also know that $200 wine for $18 ‘disappointment syndrome’ can cause harsh analysis among some. Are we just witnessing normal random human behavior here or is there any reasonable way these early judgements can be defended as anything other than opinions like any other?

I can't speak for others, but I can answer this for myself.

I bought dN wines specifically to be immediate cellar defenders. I don't want or need to hold them long term--I have other wines for that. Knowing that was my intent, I specifically purchased offers where Cam indicated they were drinking great now, or "would be be the fall."

With one exception (see below), I am happy. I focused on white wines, and a few reds. The whites are all really nice, and some of the reds have been really good.

But, #21 (Atlas Peak, Robert Craig?) is a hot mess, and I am not at all happy (with that one). Cam's note about #21 said, "Its already showing well and should be drinking nicely by mid-August ... I think its will be wonderfully approachable by this Fall." He knows far more about these wines than I do, so I took his word for it. I have now tried five bottles of #21. I keep hoping we will find a way to like it, but we have not. Pop n' pour, decant, wait a day, wait two days: it does not matter. I don't like it. Maybe it is a personal preference thing, or maybe it does need more time (despite the initial description).


In other news: If anyone would like 6 free bottles of #21 (you provide a shipping label), please PM me. (seriously)
[Update: "sale" is pending on this. If anything changes, I will repost. For now, thank you all for the interest!]

[Mike R]

I’ve been reading these tasting notes since the beginning and find them helpful but I do have to ask how often people here drink wines within the first few months after bottling. I know that ‘better’ wines aren’t even released for sale until at least a year and very often longer. Supermarket brands likely don’t hold back but wines in the league these wines are supposed to be in surely do.

Two things: 1) With the cost of money I’d think wineries wouldn’t hold wine if they didn’t think it benefited the drinking experience (possible image building understood). 2) I’ve done some barrel tasting over the years and have always been told that early tasting doesn’t give the full expression of the wine that early on.

So...... why are so many here denigrating wines they’ve been expressly warned aren’t ready to drink? I get the notion of wanting to try them early just for the experience, and also know that many people intentionally follow a wine’s development when they’ve bought multiple bottles. I also know that $200 wine for $18 ‘disappointment syndrome’ can cause harsh analysis among some. Are we just witnessing normal random human behavior here or is there any reasonable way these early judgements can be defended as anything other than opinions like any other?

I can't speak for others, but I can answer this for myself.

I bought dN wines specifically to be immediate cellar defenders. I don't want or need to hold them long term--I have other wines for that. Knowing that was my intent, I specifically purchased offers where Cam indicated they were drinking great now, or "would be be the fall."

With one exception (see below), I am happy. I focused on white wines, and a few reds. The whites are all really nice, and some of the reds have been really good.

But, #21 (Atlas Peak, Robert Craig?) is a hot mess, and I am not at all happy (with that one). Cam's note about #21 said, "Its already showing well and should be drinking nicely by mid-August ... I think its will be wonderfully approachable by this Fall." He knows far more about these wines than I do, so I took his word for it. I have now tried five bottles of #21. I keep hoping we will find a way to like it, but we have not. Pop n' pour, decant, wait a day, wait two days: it does not matter. I don't like it. Maybe it is a personal preference thing, or maybe it does need more time (despite the initial description).


In other news: If anyone would like 6 free bottles of #21 (you provide a shipping label), please PM me. (seriously)

I mostly have liked all the wines I've bought from DN, but I have to agree - 21 is awful.

[tpetty]

I opened a bottle of 41 last night - St Helena cab bottled 5 months ago.

Not good. Harsh. Tasted like a $15 cab.

I realize 5 months is not a lot of time, but there is no way of knowing if these are actually drinking well now without trying a bottle. I won't open another of these until fall.

[Richard Jen]

I agree that there is no way to know what a wine tastes like without trying it. I opened a bottle of N.37 and did not find it exciting. Others including Cam confirmed that. I would not open the remaining ones for a while. The damage is done. It doesn’t help to go back every week to confirm that it’s not good at this point. Of course it would be a different story if I need the storage space.

[David Buck]

I mostly have liked all the wines I've bought from DN, but I have to agree - 21 is awful.

Hopefully 21 is not all lost...CT has 12 reviews...almost all of them are pretty positive. But general consensus is it needs time...(the usual )

[Troy Stark]

21 definitely needs time. Major baby fat and a bit disjointed right now.

[Tom Chen]

Tried the OG N.37 Viogner tonight because I was skeptical of all the negative reviews on it. I let it air out for 30 mins and poured myself a glass. While I would not call it offensive, even if it was free, I would certainly pass. Quite a disappointment with this one and to think I have 11 remaining bottles. I guess this one gets relegated to cooking wine (I'll apologize to the pasta and chicken in advance).

This wine is going to be the DN sleeper. I cracked one an hour or so ago and, sure enough, its reductive as hell. Here's what you do...pour out about 3 or 4 ounces, re-cork and give it a good shake. Take the cork out, blow in the bottle and then re-cork and shake again. Do this a couple times and then re-cork and let it sit for an hour. It'll still have plenty of baby fat on it (as do all the wines from the top of the Mayacamas) but you'll see the beauty start to emerge. Orange marmalade and pretty minerality are there...just largely hidden away for now. I'll report back what I see in the morning too...

Has anyone tried what Cameron suggests above?

Reminds me of the "Mollydooker Shake."

I remember going to a tasting with Sarah and Sparky back in the day when Aussie Syrah was all the rage. Sparky recommended doing something very similar to what Cameron suggests. Felt like some sort of gimmick back then and I never have tried it.

[Toby P]

A recent poster (#697) gave a strong endorsement for the day-before 2 hr decant and rebottling

[C. Heinsen]

I second. I feel like the process gets some oxidation on it without going too far. I can tell you the 58 and 50 really benefited from it when I tried them.

[rsmithjr]

OG 21 Atlas Peak. I decanted it yesterday into a ships decanter for two hours then re-bottled it. Will have it tonight at chops restaurant in Naples Florida

[Lloyd A. Kasman]

Has anyone recently tried OG 3 2017 Cab Franc. It’s the only bottle I have with me at my weekend house from de Négoce.. I’m going to a friends home who is grilling some steaks and I was gonna take this along tonight. Any recent tasting notes, he has a decanter so I definitely gonna check that out. Thanks in advance for any quick replies. Happy new year!

[David Buck]

OG 21 Atlas Peak. I decanted it yesterday into a ships decanter for two hours then re-bottled it. Will have it tonight at chops restaurant in Naples Florida

Look forward to the report...$25 cork fee...you will be drinking the most expensive denogce wine out there

[Rich K0rz€nk0]

PnP of number 6 last night, solid bottle for the money. Showed very well and I can see it developing very nicely over the coming years. Right up my alley;.

[rsmithjr]

OG 21 Atlas Peak. I decanted it yesterday into a ships decanter for two hours then re-bottled it. Will have it tonight at chops restaurant in Naples Florida

Look forward to the report...$25 cork fee...you will be drinking the most expensive denogce wine out there

Deep color, almost opaque. Long legs, coats the glass. Deep black fruits and mild oak. This wine is still coming together in terms of flavors but has deep structure. 90-91 now.

[Jidhin R.]

Opened No. 50 on Friday night. PnP, deep purple, came off with intense aromas of dark concentrated fruit, sweet vanilla, blackberry, blackberry compote, black plum, and cloves. Liked the aromas a lot. On the palate it's very muted but you still get some of the black fruit and vanilla. Tannins were velvety but grippy, better than I expected for something so young. Vacuum pumped and stored in fridge. Day 2, did a decant and then back in bottle. Aromas were still good but quite the same. The palate though...no change! It didn't feel flat/stale, maybe just shut down? Tried over several hours and no change. Will leave the rest for at least a few more months before revisiting. I still think there is potential for something solid, time will tell I suppose.

[Lloyd A. Kasman]

Has anyone recently tried OG 3 2017 Cab Franc. It’s the only bottle I have with me at my weekend house from de Négoce.. I’m going to a friends home who is grilling some steaks and I was gonna take this along tonight. Any recent tasting notes, he has a decanter so I definitely gonna check that out. Thanks in advance for any quick replies. Happy new year!

Update: 2 1/2 hour decant and the wine showed very nicely paired with grilled steaks. This one will continue to get better but was rather surprised by the depth color and flavor profile.

[Michael Martin]

N.01 seems to be turning the corner into something interesting. N.2 and N.11 are too. All Napa cabs or cab blends. N.15 the Merlot is all over the board.

[Benjg]

Opened a #23 Chardonnay last night and it was great! This won’t last long in our house, I would consider buying more if I see it on the site again. I know I shouldn’t have, but curiosity got the best of me and I opened my first bottle of #37 Viognier this week as well. What a mess that wine is, I know Cameron said to sit on this one for awhile and I won’t open another until June or July. Ended up pouring half the bottle down the drain. Hoping something magical happens in the next few months to that wine.

[JonathanG]

Opened N.04 tonight. After a 2 hr slow ox, was nice and had those sticky tongue coating young tannins. Remiscient of another stagecoach wine I had lots of last year. Alcoholic tingle at the very end. Poured into a decanter, 2 more hours. Tannins calmed down a lot, nice balance to the wine, still the slight alcohol sensation at the end. 4 more hours in, roughly the same. Leaving in the decanter overnight, will see how it goes. For me, the 2-4 hr window is prime but YMMV.

Pretty pleased with the wine given its price point.

Update: 28 hrs in the decanter, its prime now. In balance, still a very mild alcoholic finish but the wine came together and my wife even thought it was a different wine. I suspect this means these need time to rest. Will check in on another next year. Very optimistic this will be excellent. Great deal.

[EAScrog]

Last night I opened a bottle of OG 16 Sauv Blanc to try in a sample Grassl Liberte glass, and served it with a quick skillet chicken veg stir fry dish. This combo went from an ok weeknight dinner to a culinary delight. In the Liberte glass, the wine is smooth and lush, with no back-end harshness. I mentioned to my daughter online it's everything a white wine should be. Very happy with this one and the Grassl glass really enhances the flavor.

[Brandon R]

I opened both OG N. 64 (Calistoga Cabernet Sauvignon) and OG N. 68 (Sonoma County Cabernet Sauvignon) last weekend. Neither were decanted for long, but both were surprisingly enjoyable. The Calistoga Cab was the tighter of the two and I'll hold off a bit for now. I was surprised at the sweetness of fruit on the Sonoma County Cab and how approachable it was. Very tasty, so don't hesitate.

[ValerieA]

After being pretty pleased with the drink ability and promise of several DN California Cabernets, I tried #50, the Walla Walla version. Tasted nice, fruity with tannin, but the potential to come together nicely. But, woke up with a horrendous headache, the worse since college days. What’s up with that. Only 2 glasses.? Scared to try again.

[ValerieA]

Opened No. 50 on Friday night. PnP, deep purple, came off with intense aromas of dark concentrated fruit, sweet vanilla, blackberry, blackberry compote, black plum, and cloves. Liked the aromas a lot. On the palate it's very muted but you still get some of the black fruit and vanilla. Tannins were velvety but grippy, better than I expected for something so young. Vacuum pumped and stored in fridge. Day 2, did a decant and then back in bottle. Aromas were still good but quite the same. The palate though...no change! It didn't feel flat/stale, maybe just shut down? Tried over several hours and no change. Will leave the rest for at least a few more months before revisiting. I still think there is potential for something solid, time will tell I suppose.

Did you get a headache?

[Peter C.]

After being pretty pleased with the drink ability and promise of several DN California Cabernets, I tried #50, the Walla Walla version. Tasted nice, fruity with tannin, but the potential to come together nicely. But, woke up with a horrendous headache, the worse since college days. What’s up with that. Only 2 glasses.? Scared to try again.

I've consumed several bottles since it arrived and my wife and I haven't had headaches.

[Jidhin R.]

Did you get a headache?

No, headaches for us on #50

[Timothy B a l l a r d]

Valerie-
That's unfortunate. Histamines is probably a likely cause? Sulphites are higher in white wines- so if it's sulphites white wine would affect you more. My friend owns a local winery here in Santa Cruz mtns, everytime I drink his Merlot, I get a headache. He said something to the effect of a reaction from malo-lactic bacteria native on Merlot grapeskins. He's a micro-biologist, I'm an engineer- who am I to argue?
Try the wine again, if it does same- treat your friends to a wonderful surprize. Cheers.

[Eric White]

No 12 Chardonnay right now (day two). I've gotta say, this wine has improved significantly from when I had it last (a month or two back). Really nice minerally, citrusy nose, with a bit of melon. Sharp, clean, crisp on the palate, really coming together nicely (was flat and uninteresting/generic on my last taste).

[Arv R]

For those of you trying to guesstimate how some of these might age, about 60 Cameron Hughes wines showed up on WineBid. Some are older cabs, with AVA designations, which I'd assume would be of the most interest. Obviously there is no guarantee at all that what might have been in a 10 year old Stags Leap is what is in a current release de Negoce today, but if you think some of those business relationships might have been continued, perhaps its worth checking out.

[rsmithjr]

For those of you trying to guesstimate how some of these might age, about 60 Cameron Hughes wines showed up on WineBid. Some are older cabs, with AVA designations, which I'd assume would be of the most interest. Obviously there is no guarantee at all that what might have been in a 10 year old Stags Leap is what is in a current release de Negoce today, but if you think some of those business relationships might have been continued, perhaps its worth checking out.

Interesting, I love some of the older Cam Hughes wines. His cabernets from 2012-2014 were always GREAT. Lot 596 and 609 are standouts. My theory is possibly the new owners of CH wines cleared out the "Library". Or Cam emptied his own cellar to make room.

[Timothy B a l l a r d]

Decanted a OG 11 2017 Cabernet (originally a Meritage) for dinner in 4 hours. Update later. Cheers & Happy Friday all.

[Timothy B a l l a r d]

Those fortunate enough to have purchased OG11- It fits Cam's description as "Cult" level wine. This is simply incredible. Best Napa Cabernet had in a LONG time- all for the measly price of $16/. This is the real deal folks. Let these '18 vintage wines rest in bottle- this is a '17 vintage and has come around with that extra year (not in bottle though)

This all-star Napa Valley Cabernet-based Meritage is sourced from legendary Rutherford and Howell Mountain vineyards with Calistoga playing a supporting role. Focused and expressive, it fully delivers with gorgeous aromas of cassis, black cherry, cigar box and Rutherford dust all accentuated by fine tannins from seasoned French oak. 21% Cabernet Franc blessed the blend bringing added layers of elegant violet aromas and savory depth. Rich and chewy, this is classic Cult-level wine from pioneers in the category. Retails for $175/bottle at the winery.

190 cases produced
75% Cabernet, 15% Cab Franc, 9% Petit Verdot, 1% Merlot
60% new French oak
71% Rutherford, 25% Howell Mountain, 4% Calistoga
15% Alc.
Bottled June 22nd, 2020

[Bob W]

Enjoying my first de Négoce tonight; the OG03. Huge thanks to Tim B for sharing! It's fantastic!

[Michael Martin]

Those fortunate enough to have purchased OG11- It fits Cam's description as "Cult" level wine. This is simply incredible. Best Napa Cabernet had in a LONG time- all for the measly price of $16/. This is the real deal folks. Let these '18 vintage wines rest in bottle- this is a '17 vintage and has come around with that extra year (not in bottle though)

This all-star Napa Valley Cabernet-based Meritage is sourced from legendary Rutherford and Howell Mountain vineyards with Calistoga playing a supporting role. Focused and expressive, it fully delivers with gorgeous aromas of cassis, black cherry, cigar box and Rutherford dust all accentuated by fine tannins from seasoned French oak. 21% Cabernet Franc blessed the blend bringing added layers of elegant violet aromas and savory depth. Rich and chewy, this is classic Cult-level wine from pioneers in the category. Retails for $175/bottle at the winery.

190 cases produced
75% Cabernet, 15% Cab Franc, 9% Petit Verdot, 1% Merlot
60% new French oak
71% Rutherford, 25% Howell Mountain, 4% Calistoga
15% Alc.
Bottled June 22nd, 2020

And it gets an 89 on CT. Time will tell. I personally think N.02 is better, but N.11 is a solid, if not spectacular wine.

[Timothy B a l l a r d]

Michael,
One regret- passing on OG2. From reviews I've read, it's terrific. Plenty of other OG Cabs and blends to try soon enough. Cheers.

[MatthewT]

Had OG 2 yesterday after doing a 2 hour/24 hour double decant like Cameron suggested and it was fantastic.

I've been happy with all my OG purchases.

[Christopher Dunn]

No. 43 Cabernet. I continue to believe that this is not a good wine. I have had several since release and find little to recommend it. The 49 is a different matter (lot of potential...don't drink now!!! Wait a few years), but this 43....ugh.

[MatthewT]

No. 43 Cabernet. I continue to believe that this is not a good wine. I have had several since release and find little to recommend it. The 49 is a different matter (lot of potential...don't drink now!!! Wait a few years), but this 43....ugh.

93, 90, 92.

So someone likes it. Well 3 different people. 3/3 actually on CT.

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp? ... 9f354d6d6d

I haven't tried this one yet, in storage.

[Kevin N]

Opened a #23 Chardonnay last night and it was great! This won’t last long in our house, I would consider buying more if I see it on the site again. I know I shouldn’t have, but curiosity got the best of me and I opened my first bottle of #37 Viognier this week as well. What a mess that wine is, I know Cameron said to sit on this one for awhile and I won’t open another until June or July. Ended up pouring half the bottle down the drain. Hoping something magical happens in the next few months to that wine.

I completely agree that #23 was really good...especially for the price. Nice and bright, citrus and apple notes and great mouthfeel with just a hint of earth notes that make it interesting. I love the acidity. Also not likely to last long here.

[Kevin N]

No. 43 Cabernet. I continue to believe that this is not a good wine. I have had several since release and find little to recommend it. The 49 is a different matter (lot of potential...don't drink now!!! Wait a few years), but this 43....ugh.

93, 90, 92.

So someone likes it. Well 3 different people. 3/3 actually on CT.

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp? ... 9f354d6d6d

I haven't tried this one yet, in storage.

I opened my first bottle of N43 last night. My wife and I both enjoyed it and it was definitely our style as the the tannins were big and it had earth & cedar notes we thought worked well with the dark fruits. I'm not one of the CT raters. I'd probably go 90-91 right now and think that it will improve over the next few years.