#GlassFire

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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JohnP
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Re: #GlassFire

#501 Post by JohnP » October 12th, 2020, 12:24 pm

I also heard on the Spottswoode webinar last week, they finished picking all estate cab fruit the day before the harvest. They left one row just for research, interesting.
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Re: #GlassFire

#502 Post by Jeff_M. » October 12th, 2020, 2:29 pm

JohnP wrote:
October 12th, 2020, 12:24 pm
I also heard on the Spottswoode webinar last week, they finished picking all estate cab fruit the day before the harvest. They left one row just for research, interesting.
I had asked them about the 2020 vintage before the Glass fire and they said so far so good with no smoke taint. They did harvest in the days before the Glass fire. I hope they are indeed taint free.
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Re: #GlassFire

#503 Post by Robert R » October 12th, 2020, 4:23 pm

Lots of respect for Shafer
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Roy Piper
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Re: #GlassFire

#504 Post by Roy Piper » October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm

It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
ITB, text me anytime at 707-266-4168

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Re: #GlassFire

#505 Post by Jim Clary » October 15th, 2020, 5:36 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
Roy, I was surprised to read in the Hundred Acre email that they have no crop insurance, and seemed to indicate that virtually nobody does. Is that widespread?
Jim Clary

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Re: #GlassFire

#506 Post by Roy Piper » October 15th, 2020, 7:03 pm

Jim Clary wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 5:36 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
Roy, I was surprised to read in the Hundred Acre email that they have no crop insurance, and seemed to indicate that virtually nobody does. Is that widespread?
It is widespread. I am guessing 1/2 of vineyard owners, at most, had it. And I am not sure any such insurance will be available after this year even to those who want it. I am not even sure winery... or even homeowner's insurance... will be available in some parts of Napa, moving ahead. Especially in the mountains. More financial shoes to drop, I am sure.
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Re: #GlassFire

#507 Post by Casey Hartlip » October 15th, 2020, 7:43 pm

Crop insurance is very spendy. I bought it one year during the drought and I was afraid we wouldn't have enough water for frost protection. Back then you could get coverage from 50-80% of your average crop levels. I can only imagine that premiums will go WAY up after this year.
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Re: #GlassFire

#508 Post by JohnP » October 16th, 2020, 7:56 am

Jayson Woodbridge sent out an email yesterday-

"The reality is that for Hundred Acre the vintage was over after the first 24 hours of the first fires in August known as the L.N.U. Lightning Complex. So, to be clear: There will be NO Hundred Acre vintage in 2020…nothing."

"I will give you greatness and magic or nothing at all."
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Re: #GlassFire

#509 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » October 16th, 2020, 9:31 am

What is the word on burning of vines? So many devastating impacts of this fire, but if vines burn that could shut down production at a vineyard for 5-10 years. OTOH I have always heard that vines are very resistant to fire.

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Re: #GlassFire

#510 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 16th, 2020, 1:21 pm

I don't have to speak; she defends me

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Re: #GlassFire

#511 Post by Merrill Lindquist » October 16th, 2020, 1:34 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 1:21 pm
We need relief from a disaster, alright, and I am not just talking about the fires.
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Re: #GlassFire

#512 Post by timmy roos » October 16th, 2020, 1:44 pm

The article is all about the wh supporting the bill
Things are getting funny these day

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Re: #GlassFire

#513 Post by Al Osterheld » October 16th, 2020, 1:49 pm

It was initially rejected by WH because FEMA had determined the fires were not of sufficient magnitude to warrant the assistance (huh?). Newsome called the President and must have kissed the ring, because they reversed the decision.

I gather the tweet linked to an NPR article that was later updated with the new information.

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Re: #GlassFire

#514 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 16th, 2020, 2:12 pm

No way that decision could have remained in place. Wonder why it was denied in the first place.
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Re: #GlassFire

#515 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 16th, 2020, 2:27 pm

I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

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Re: #GlassFire

#516 Post by JBrochu » October 16th, 2020, 2:29 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:12 pm
No way that decision could have remained in place. Wonder why it was denied in the first place.
Really?
J@hn

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Re: #GlassFire

#517 Post by S. Rash » October 16th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
I'm wondering if you, or any winemaker in Napa and Sonoma, have been exposed to so much smoke that you cannot taste or smell it? Just a thought
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Re: #GlassFire

#518 Post by mmarcellus » October 16th, 2020, 4:06 pm

Al Osterheld wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 1:49 pm
It was initially rejected by WH because FEMA had determined the fires were not of sufficient magnitude to warrant the assistance (huh?). Newsome called the President and must have kissed the ring, because they reversed the decision.
I don't think that any ring kissing by Newsom was necessary. There were plenty of motivated House Republicans from California (coincidentally up for reelection in 3 weeks) who somehow found it in themselves to lobby to get this changed.
M @ r k

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Re: #GlassFire

#519 Post by Al Osterheld » October 16th, 2020, 4:10 pm

Yes, seems like a win for essentially everyone.

-Al

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Re: #GlassFire

#520 Post by Merrill Lindquist » October 16th, 2020, 5:48 pm

S. Rash wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
I'm wondering if you, or any winemaker in Napa and Sonoma, have been exposed to so much smoke that you cannot taste or smell it? Just a thought
dubious.
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Re: #GlassFire

#521 Post by Al Osterheld » October 16th, 2020, 6:09 pm

For some strong odors, there is a short term loss in intensity of the reaction. But, your sense of smell recovers quickly.

My experience in 2008 was that people in the industry who dealt with it became more sensitive to low levels of smoke taint, and were able to pick it up in some specific wines from later vintages where the fires and smoke issues were more localized.

-Al

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Roy Piper
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Re: #GlassFire

#522 Post by Roy Piper » October 16th, 2020, 9:06 pm

S. Rash wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
I'm wondering if you, or any winemaker in Napa and Sonoma, have been exposed to so much smoke that you cannot taste or smell it? Just a thought
I think for me it is the other way around... I have become hyper sensitive to it. We are all getting lab results, of course, to verify.
ITB, text me anytime at 707-266-4168

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Re: #GlassFire

#523 Post by S. Rash » October 17th, 2020, 12:25 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 9:06 pm
S. Rash wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
I'm wondering if you, or any winemaker in Napa and Sonoma, have been exposed to so much smoke that you cannot taste or smell it? Just a thought
I think for me it is the other way around... I have become hyper sensitive to it. We are all getting lab results, of course, to verify.
I can only imagine!! Just smelling a charcoal grill would have me looking at the hills at this point.
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Re: #GlassFire

#524 Post by timmy roos » October 18th, 2020, 8:19 am

After watching how much Miguel salgues smoked cigarettes and made delicious wines at roederer I don’t think any amount of smoke could hinder sensory evaluation!
Things are getting funny these day

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Re: #GlassFire

#525 Post by J a y H a c k » October 18th, 2020, 8:49 am

timmy roos wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 8:19 am
After watching how much Miguel salgues smoked cigarettes and made delicious wines at roederer I don’t think any amount of smoke could hinder sensory evaluation!
You wouldn't know until you quit. I last had tobacco (a Montecristo) on the 10th hole at Upper Montclair CC, the first week of December, 2000. I did not know what I was missing until I quit.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

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Re: #GlassFire

#526 Post by Ben M a n d l e r » October 19th, 2020, 12:15 am

Roy Piper wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 9:06 pm
S. Rash wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
I'm wondering if you, or any winemaker in Napa and Sonoma, have been exposed to so much smoke that you cannot taste or smell it? Just a thought
I think for me it is the other way around... I have become hyper sensitive to it. We are all getting lab results, of course, to verify.
This is my experience, too. Even after the fires of recent years, a lot of people's palates - including my own - have not been well versed in smoke taint, which can vary in its sensory manifestation at different concentrations, in different varietals, and with different ratios of compounds. If anything good is coming from these fires it's that our palates are becoming better tuned to these taints. In some cases we can even combine those sensory experiences with lab results to pin our palates to something quantifiable.

I do think it's possible that, for some of August/September and for about 2 weeks during the Glass Fire, the level of smoke in the air, and on our clothes, and in our hair, was a bit of an obstacle to assessing taint in fermenting wines, but that's certainly not true anymore, and for anyone with access to a clean indoor space, wasn't really true then, either.
ITB

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Re: #GlassFire

#527 Post by David Glasser » October 19th, 2020, 8:07 pm

timmy roos wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 8:19 am
After watching how much Miguel salgues smoked cigarettes and made delicious wines at roederer I don’t think any amount of smoke could hinder sensory evaluation!
Legendary Napa winemaker Andre Tchelistcheff was reportedly a heavy smoker.

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Re: #GlassFire

#528 Post by Todd F r e n c h » October 20th, 2020, 8:07 am

Just received a humbling email from Jennifer Lamb on the status of the Herb Lamb property :(
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: #GlassFire

#529 Post by larry schaffer » October 20th, 2020, 8:09 am

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:07 am
Just received a humbling email from Jennifer Lamb on the status of the Herb Lamb property :(
So disheartening . . .

Can you share the email if possible?

Cheers.
larry schaffer
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Re: #GlassFire

#530 Post by Todd F r e n c h » October 20th, 2020, 8:13 am

larry schaffer wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:09 am
Todd F r e n c h wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:07 am
Just received a humbling email from Jennifer Lamb on the status of the Herb Lamb property :(
So disheartening . . .

Can you share the email if possible?

Cheers.
Dear Todd,

First off, I am OK – the fires were devastating not just to those of us who lost our homes and Library wine cellars, but did double duty by partially destroying our livelihood - our vines and wineries - as well. Much of my vineyard survived, some did not. But I will rebuild it all!

I was awakened at 4:00 am on Sunday (9/27) morning by a neighbor who witnessed the beginning of the Glass Fire on the hills of lower Howell Mountain. I watched the fire spread and die back, as the helicopters dropped water and the 737 bombers dropped retardant, until (for the 3rd time this year) we were evacuated and I went to stay with a friend in St. Helena. The fire jumped the Silverado Trail and eventually even Hwy. 29, and all of Spring Mountain soon was ablaze. We were evacuated again and found refuge in Napa for the night only to see in the morning light that there was not much left of our hillside homes, vineyards and neighborhood. While still not 100% contained, the Glass Fire has ripped through 212,000 acres destroying 630 homes, 450 outbuildings and about 31 wineries, restaurants and lodges have been either demolished or damaged. More than 2000 residential and commercial structures remain threatened.

Thanks to all who reached out to wish me well and volunteer an extra room or help to get me back on my feet. This especially includes the friends and clients with expert insurance backgrounds or previous fire damage experiences who patiently led me down the right path.

In the aftermath of all of this devastation and loss, due to insurance carrier's response to the 2017 fires, the reality that most of us are woefully underinsured is sinking in. No matter what, I am prioritizing the reconstruction of the vineyard and its infrastructure. The house rebuild will come later.

We all have great memories of sitting on the deck, perhaps throwing a tennis ball or two for a black lab, tasting the fruits of the vineyard in front of us as we gazed across a lush, green valley towards the Howell Mountains beyond. It’s going to take a massive effort to recreate the bucolic days of the past . . . but we’ll get there, one step at a time.

I am so very grateful to everyone that has reached out to check on me and offer their assistance. My staff has been remarkably supportive and helpful and they have organized fundraising donations options for my recovery.

I love you, I thank you, and I hope to have good news to share someday soon. But until then, please enjoy Napa Valley wines and make a toast to wonderful memories and new beginnings.

Jennifer Lamb
Owner, Herb Lamb Vineyards
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: #GlassFire

#531 Post by B Brockmeyer » October 22nd, 2020, 9:29 am

Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 7:03 pm
Jim Clary wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 5:36 pm
Roy Piper wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 4:59 pm
It does not matter one bit of anyone picked before the Glass Fire, although I have serious doubts if you picked AFTER. We had 36 days of smoke before the glass fire and either the die is cast or it is not. So far I am not tasting taint anywhere, which needless to say, is a bit of a shock. But taint often does not come out til every bit of sugar is fermented and malo is done. Wake me up at Christmas. I made as much wine this year as I always do, but I am in a "prove it to me" mode at the moment. It's so early in the scheme of things.
Roy, I was surprised to read in the Hundred Acre email that they have no crop insurance, and seemed to indicate that virtually nobody does. Is that widespread?
It is widespread. I am guessing 1/2 of vineyard owners, at most, had it. And I am not sure any such insurance will be available after this year even to those who want it. I am not even sure winery... or even homeowner's insurance... will be available in some parts of Napa, moving ahead. Especially in the mountains. More financial shoes to drop, I am sure.
I believe the head of whatever federal agency oversees crop insurance said 60% of Napa County vineyards had crop insurance during a post-LNU Complex webinar.
Good Brett
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Re: #GlassFire

#532 Post by Peter Shurman » October 22nd, 2020, 10:10 am

Karen Troisi wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 3:30 pm
Nola Palomar wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 4:13 pm
Karen Troisi wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 2:57 pm


Heard Duckhorn had hired private fire fighters - many of the larger wineries (or their insurance companies) do. If we all had those resources we would do the same.
Karen this is such a stressful and heart wrenching time. I’m hoping for great news!!
Thank you Nola - it’s been a really stressful week. i do not want to jinx anything but the winery and offsite barrel storage seem to be safe as the fires have stayed north of St. Helena for the most part. On top of the fire situation we had to make some painful (but right) decisions this week on 2020 fruit. More on that another day.
KT, how have the vineyards you source from fared?
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