$1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

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Brent S
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$1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#1 Post by Brent S »

So sad. But if anyone wants to go in with me, we can make the berserkers 2020 Napa Smokey cuvée. Just need a winemaker and some used barrels. Grapes probably already have a wood flavor to them.
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Last edited by Brent S on September 23rd, 2020, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#2 Post by MatthewT »

deNegoce #123
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Re: $1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#3 Post by Brent S »

I suppose they are hoping someone will just clear the grapes out of the vineyard, saving them the expense of picking them. Such a horrible situation.
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#4 Post by Ian S »

Just more "complexity" for you, mates!

Is there no way to counter, or reverse, the effects of smoke taint?
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#5 Post by Michael Martin »

Brent S wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 7:36 pm I suppose they are hoping someone will just clear the grapes out of the vineyard, saving them the expense of picking them. Such a horrible situation.
They don’t have to pick. The grapes can hang.

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Re: $1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#6 Post by Chris Seiber »

Ian S wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 7:39 pm Is there no way to counter, or reverse, the effects of smoke taint?
Not really. Could make rose out of it, most of the smoke is on the skins. 28 brix cab rose — mmmm.

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Re: $1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#7 Post by Brent S »

I was told you have to pick all grapes off so the vines can shut down and go dormant. Takes stress off the vines so they can be ready for the spring.
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#8 Post by Michael Martin »

Around here, the grapes will drop on their own or the birds will eat them if not netted.

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Re: $1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#9 Post by David Wright »

Is that $1/ton price "you pick"? Or are they already picked and ready to go?

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#10 Post by Cris Whetstone »

I saw a pic on FB from Neal Vineyards that showed all the fruit dropped on the ground announcing they would sell no 2020.
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Re: $1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#11 Post by Adam Frisch »

Dammit, I've spent my whole life looking for smoke notes in wines! I'll grab it! neener
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#12 Post by brigcampbell »

Michael Martin wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:45 pm Around here, the grapes will drop on their own or the birds will eat them if not netted.
John Cabot just takes down the electric fence around the vineyard and the black bears clean up.

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#13 Post by davidlown »

Is there a bbq product you could make with all of these grapes like jelly or sauce?

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#14 Post by Victor Hong »

davidlown wrote: September 24th, 2020, 4:54 am Is there a bbq product you could make with all of these grapes like jelly or sauce?
Parker Sauce.
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#15 Post by Michael Martin »

Tainted grapes don’t take on a smoke note, they taste like you are licking an ash tray.

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#16 Post by Ian S »

brigcampbell wrote: September 24th, 2020, 4:26 am
Michael Martin wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:45 pm Around here, the grapes will drop on their own or the birds will eat them if not netted.
John Cabot just takes down the electric fence around the vineyard and the black bears clean up.
Some of them probably don't even notice the smoke taint. [snort.gif]

Smoking Black Bear.png
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#17 Post by brigcampbell »

^^^ Smokey the Bear?

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#18 Post by Corey N. »

Chris Seiber wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:03 pm
Ian S wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 7:39 pm Is there no way to counter, or reverse, the effects of smoke taint?
Not really. Could make rose out of it, most of the smoke is on the skins. 28 brix cab rose — mmmm.
I know you make wine and are more knowledgeable than I am, but I have read articles suggesting that reverse osmosis is reputed to work. I've also read some articles that suggest that RO is both not perfect and that the smoke taint can come back over time.

As for the 28 brix Cab rose...I wouldn't write it off completely. Many winemakers pick at higher brix and add acid and water, it's just not publicized.
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#19 Post by brigcampbell »

Corey N. wrote: September 24th, 2020, 8:36 am
Chris Seiber wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:03 pm
Ian S wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 7:39 pm Is there no way to counter, or reverse, the effects of smoke taint?
Not really. Could make rose out of it, most of the smoke is on the skins. 28 brix cab rose — mmmm.
I know you make wine and are more knowledgeable than I am, but I have read articles suggesting that reverse osmosis is reputed to work. I've also read some articles that suggest that RO is both not perfect and that the smoke taint can come back over time.

As for the 28 brix Cab rose...I wouldn't write it off completely. Many winemakers pick at higher brix and add acid and water, it's just not publicized.
Regarding Rose, I agree you could play mixologist and probably make a nice rose.

Regarding RO and spinning cones - Carol Meredith mentioned this somewhere but the bad "smoke taint" molecules (and there's probably 6-8 of them) can be in the wine free by themselves or bond to other molecules. The first case can "sort of" be addressed but the latter is a problem. RO/Spinning cones won't break those chemical bonds.

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#20 Post by Victor Hong »

Ian S wrote: September 24th, 2020, 7:36 am
brigcampbell wrote: September 24th, 2020, 4:26 am
Michael Martin wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:45 pm Around here, the grapes will drop on their own or the birds will eat them if not netted.
John Cabot just takes down the electric fence around the vineyard and the black bears clean up.
Some of them probably don't even notice the smoke taint. [snort.gif]


Smoking Black Bear.png
Image

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#21 Post by Wes Barton »

brigcampbell wrote: September 24th, 2020, 10:37 am
Corey N. wrote: September 24th, 2020, 8:36 am
Chris Seiber wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 8:03 pm

Not really. Could make rose out of it, most of the smoke is on the skins. 28 brix cab rose — mmmm.
I know you make wine and are more knowledgeable than I am, but I have read articles suggesting that reverse osmosis is reputed to work. I've also read some articles that suggest that RO is both not perfect and that the smoke taint can come back over time.

As for the 28 brix Cab rose...I wouldn't write it off completely. Many winemakers pick at higher brix and add acid and water, it's just not publicized.
Regarding Rose, I agree you could play mixologist and probably make a nice rose.

Regarding RO and spinning cones - Carol Meredith mentioned this somewhere but the bad "smoke taint" molecules (and there's probably 6-8 of them) can be in the wine free by themselves or bond to other molecules. The first case can "sort of" be addressed but the latter is a problem. RO/Spinning cones won't break those chemical bonds.
28 brix and you're going to have color bleeding out of the grapes. That should mean much more VOCs. Even with a moderately ripe white grape that's had some smoke exposure, you'd want to press off the skins right away and then drop out solids right away. You'd want to do the same with moderately ripe red grapes, and go as blanc or vin gris as possible. I've heard of a couple roses turning out smoke tainted this year. IMO the rose solution involves picking as early as possible. Also IMO, there are countless better options to make a decent wine this year. It would *still* be much easier and much less costly to make a much better rose from something else.
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#22 Post by Chris Crutchfield »

MatthewT wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 7:23 pm deNegoce #123
We'll probably still buy it, tbh

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#23 Post by Vince T »

T s 3 n g

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#24 Post by David K o l i n »

How about Marc, grappa or brandy? Would the snake show through?

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#25 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Am I missing something? There are plenty of wineries living on a knife’s edge that will be horribly impacted, and I suspect some will be out of business. I am not sure all the jokes are appropriate.
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#26 Post by Vince T »

David K o l i n wrote: September 25th, 2020, 6:11 am How about Marc, grappa or brandy? Would the snake show through?
David, the sf chronicle link I posted was about exactly that (making grappa from tainted grapes).
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#27 Post by David K o l i n »

Vince T wrote: September 25th, 2020, 9:57 am
David K o l i n wrote: September 25th, 2020, 6:11 am How about Marc, grappa or brandy? Would the snake show through?
David, the sf chronicle link I posted was about exactly that (making grappa from tainted grapes).
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#28 Post by Wes Barton »

David K o l i n wrote: September 25th, 2020, 10:07 am
Vince T wrote: September 25th, 2020, 9:57 am
David K o l i n wrote: September 25th, 2020, 6:11 am How about Marc, grappa or brandy? Would the snake show through?
David, the sf chronicle link I posted was about exactly that (making grappa from tainted grapes).
Thanks. No benefits to being lazy. Couldn’t read it because of my adblocker
There are disaster relief programs that cover wild fires for uninsured ag. I saw one set of advice where to qualify, making the wine was required. Then, you'd be compensated the difference between what the grapes would normally sell for and the market price for bulk tainted wine - and no requirement to actually sell it, you can do whatever you want with it. Lots of testing requirements and such to document/prove the case. Can't find it, but iirc it was a hybrid of programs, including a specific county. Wineries should have the applicable info from their growers associations. Anyway, there could be sunk cost juice available to play with. There are some really good distillers around who should have the judgement of what to do. It could be a good opportunity to make some interesting stuff with the best lots, while going full vodka with the rest.

Here's a link with USDA programs, for starters: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-s ... gram/index
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Re: $1 per ton 2020 mt Veeder cab grapes for sale

#29 Post by Brent S »

Mark Golodetz wrote: September 25th, 2020, 6:28 am Am I missing something? There are plenty of wineries living on a knife’s edge that will be horribly impacted, and I suspect some will be out of business. I am not sure all the jokes are appropriate.
Mark, I see your point and want to let you know that I didn’t start the topic to make a joke out of a horrible situation. If anyone was offended, I apologize. My goal was to see if anyone can find any commercial product that we could potentially use with what appears to be highly coveted grapes. Obviously making a low-end wine would be the best use, but if nothing can be salvaged, something else As it seems such a shame to see the fruit simply being dropped to rot on the ground.
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#30 Post by Michael Martin »

Mark Golodetz wrote: September 25th, 2020, 6:28 am Am I missing something? There are plenty of wineries living on a knife’s edge that will be horribly impacted, and I suspect some will be out of business. I am not sure all the jokes are appropriate.
Smart vineyards are covered by insurance.

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#31 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Rates have skyrocketed since the fires of a couple of years back. And they will go up again.
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#32 Post by Victor Hong »

Mark Golodetz wrote: September 26th, 2020, 4:28 am Rates have skyrocketed since the fires of a couple of years back. And they will go up again.
So have insurance premiums everywhere else.
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#33 Post by Chris S p i k e s »

Mark Golodetz wrote: September 26th, 2020, 4:28 am Rates have skyrocketed since the fires of a couple of years back. And they will go up again.
Yep. The insurance market only works if the insurer can avoid correlated risk. I wouldn't be surprised to see most insurers exit this market at any price.

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#34 Post by GregT »

Either exit or add exclusions to their policies.

Here's an article looking at the 2017 smoke problem. Lots of issues to think about if you're a vineyard owner.

https://www.northbaybusinessjournal.com ... tinctions/
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#35 Post by Sean Devaney »

Wes Barton wrote: September 25th, 2020, 11:10 am
David K o l i n wrote: September 25th, 2020, 10:07 am
Vince T wrote: September 25th, 2020, 9:57 am

David, the sf chronicle link I posted was about exactly that (making grappa from tainted grapes).
Thanks. No benefits to being lazy. Couldn’t read it because of my adblocker
There are disaster relief programs that cover wild fires for uninsured ag. I saw one set of advice where to qualify, making the wine was required. Then, you'd be compensated the difference between what the grapes would normally sell for and the market price for bulk tainted wine - and no requirement to actually sell it, you can do whatever you want with it. Lots of testing requirements and such to document/prove the case. Can't find it, but iirc it was a hybrid of programs, including a specific county. Wineries should have the applicable info from their growers associations. Anyway, there could be sunk cost juice available to play with. There are some really good distillers around who should have the judgement of what to do. It could be a good opportunity to make some interesting stuff with the best lots, while going full vodka with the rest.

Here's a link with USDA programs, for starters: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-s ... gram/index
Wes was it this post by Stewart Johnson in the 2020 West Coast Weather and Farming thread?

https://wineberserkers.com/forum/viewto ... 0#p3081838

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