At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#51 Post by Michael S. Monie » September 15th, 2020, 6:38 pm

After reviewing this thread it's obvious that quite a few people were really anticipating the release of this wine. It's also obvious that quite a few are very disappointed with what at least now appears to be a substantial increase in price, enough to be a deal breaker.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#52 Post by Mike Hawkins » September 16th, 2020, 11:15 am

I think it’ll be interesting to see the UK price on 1/10 when it’s released. I’m guessing it will be much lower than the US, which if the case, will show who is really profiting from this champagne.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#53 Post by Jay Miller » September 16th, 2020, 11:26 am

Well, the talk of higher prices already scared me off. I took some of the money I had budgeted for 2008 CdC and bought some 2006 Vilmart CdC I found at a good price instead.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#54 Post by dbailey » September 16th, 2020, 12:50 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 11:26 am
Well, the talk of higher prices already scared me off. I took some of the money I had budgeted for 2008 CdC and bought some 2006 Vilmart CdC I found at a good price instead.
Not sure what’s going on with vilmart cdc as I recently picked up some cases of the 07 for a crazy price.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#55 Post by Chris Seiber » September 16th, 2020, 12:58 pm

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#56 Post by Jay Miller » September 16th, 2020, 1:03 pm

dbailey wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 12:50 pm
Jay Miller wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 11:26 am
Well, the talk of higher prices already scared me off. I took some of the money I had budgeted for 2008 CdC and bought some 2006 Vilmart CdC I found at a good price instead.
Not sure what’s going on with vilmart cdc as I recently picked up some cases of the 07 for a crazy price.
No idea. They're both up there as some of my absolutely favorite Champagnes so I'd much rather buy discounted VCdC than +50% cost TCdC.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#57 Post by John Kight » September 16th, 2020, 1:42 pm

Craig G wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 4:41 pm
This reminds me of when I stopped buying Chave Hermitage because it went over $100.
For me $100 has been a "stop buying" price for a large number of favorite wines over the years, including Chave Hermitage, Jamet Cote Rotie, Montevertine Le Pergole Torte, Fontodi Flaccianello, Paolo Bea Sagrantino Pagliaro, G. Mascarello Barolo Monprivato, and too many Bordeaux to list, although Smith Haut Lafitte and Pontet Canet are notables). I actually stop buying in quantity in the $79-range, but will sometimes still grab a bottle or two of long-term favorites all the way up to $100. Currently there are a number of wines that I've bought for years which are just NOW pushing into that same no-go range (Fontodi Vigna del Sorbo, Isole e Olena Ceparello, Casanova di Neri Tenuta Nuova).
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#58 Post by Mark Golodetz » September 16th, 2020, 2:49 pm

John Kight wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 1:42 pm
Craig G wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 4:41 pm
This reminds me of when I stopped buying Chave Hermitage because it went over $100. (I stop buying in quantity in the $79-range, but will sometimes still grab a bottle or two of long-term favorites all the way up to $100).
For me $100 has been a "stop buying" price for a large number of favorite wines over the years, including Chave Hermitage, Jamet Cote Rotie, Montevertine Le Pergole Torte, Fontodi Flaccianello, Paolo Bea Sagrantino Pagliaro, G. Mascarello Barolo Monprivato, and too many Bordeaux to list, although Smith Haut Lafitte and Pontet Canet are notables). Currently there are a number of wines that I've bought for years which are just NOW pushing into that same no-go range (Fontodi Vigna del Sorbo, Isole e Olena Ceparello, Casanova di Neri Tenuta Nuova).
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#59 Post by Craig G » September 16th, 2020, 4:36 pm

John Kight wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 1:42 pm
Craig G wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 4:41 pm
This reminds me of when I stopped buying Chave Hermitage because it went over $100. (I stop buying in quantity in the $79-range, but will sometimes still grab a bottle or two of long-term favorites all the way up to $100).
For me $100 has been a "stop buying" price for a large number of favorite wines over the years, including Chave Hermitage, Jamet Cote Rotie, Montevertine Le Pergole Torte, Fontodi Flaccianello, Paolo Bea Sagrantino Pagliaro, G. Mascarello Barolo Monprivato, and too many Bordeaux to list, although Smith Haut Lafitte and Pontet Canet are notables). Currently there are a number of wines that I've bought for years which are just NOW pushing into that same no-go range (Fontodi Vigna del Sorbo, Isole e Olena Ceparello, Casanova di Neri Tenuta Nuova).
Your quoting is messed up. The struck out part was not part of my post.

What I meant is that I think people will regret not buying, if they really love the wine. Maybe that’s not true at $200, but at $150 I suspect it is.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#60 Post by Mark Golodetz » September 16th, 2020, 4:40 pm

I am sure that Kobrand is fascinated by this thread, as they are looking for information how to price the 2008. I hope they recognize that we are not really representative of the Comte buyer, who will pay far less than us berserkers.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#61 Post by DanielP » September 16th, 2020, 4:42 pm

I look forward to the Berserkers 2008 Comtes buy-it-from-the-UK group buy thread
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#62 Post by Curtis Chen » September 16th, 2020, 5:03 pm

Michael S. Monie wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 6:38 pm
After reviewing this thread it's obvious that quite a few people were really anticipating the release of this wine. It's also obvious that quite a few are very disappointed with what at least now appears to be a substantial increase in price, enough to be a deal breaker.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#63 Post by Matthew.Rashbrook » September 16th, 2020, 5:16 pm

The only offer I've gotten is the Total Wine mentioned above (199 for 1, 189 for 6+).

I think at 125/bottle I'd probably buy a case without tasting it, at 150 I'd buy a bottle to sample and then make some decisions.

If others will pay $190, god bless -- as they say, "That's what makes a market." [cheers.gif]

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#64 Post by Greg K » September 16th, 2020, 5:24 pm

DanielP wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 4:42 pm
I look forward to the Berserkers 2008 Comtes buy-it-from-the-UK group buy thread
Champagne has always been cheaper in the UK (less so for grower stuff, I've found), but I'm going to be following price in London very closely. This is my favorite big marque champagne (outside of Krug, which fills a very different niche), so I'd love to buy the 2008, but at $200 it's a different consideration.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#65 Post by Brent S » September 17th, 2020, 3:22 pm

William Kelley (Parker) just hung a 98 point score on it......

"the finest Comtes de Champagne since the brilliant 2002"
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#66 Post by Josh Grossman » September 17th, 2020, 4:11 pm

I'll just wait to see what Envoyer and Lopa offer it at. If it's over $135, I'll probably pass completely. Envoyer offered the 2006 at $119.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#67 Post by William Kelley » September 17th, 2020, 4:21 pm

Brent S wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 3:22 pm
William Kelley (Parker) just hung a 98 point score on it......

"the finest Comtes de Champagne since the brilliant 2002"
Gave it the same score a year ago, so I don't think this is particularly revelatory! But it's true that I haven't left much space for the others... champagne.gif
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#68 Post by Kris Patten » September 17th, 2020, 6:11 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 4:11 pm
I'll just wait to see what Envoyer and Lopa offer it at. If it's over $135, I'll probably pass completely. Envoyer offered the 2006 at $119.
Finally saw some looks at pricing. I think you'll see it between $179 and $219 depending on what a retailer really wants to make.

There isn't much of it currently in the US, not sure how much more is in Europe, wonder if William or Brad know 2008 production. Seems like closer to 150k bottle level than some of the heavier 300k bottle years.

Really look forward to trying it.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#69 Post by Michael S. Monie » September 17th, 2020, 6:16 pm

I guess it's good that it didn't get 100 points or it would be $500 a bottle.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#70 Post by Robert M yers » September 17th, 2020, 6:29 pm

k s h i n wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 9:24 am
FWIW, DP wholesale is cheaper than European negotiants where CDC is cheaper in Europe. CDC has been cheaper than DP historically by $20 or more. I say wait. Euro vs $ is 10% higher so this is a factor as well. One issue is that you have to buy equal amount of the 07 to get to the 08.
If they want to sell an equal amount of 07, how about bundling 1 of each 07/08 for $250. I won’t participate in a 50 to 100% markup based on greed for a vintage. Despite a 98 score Im guessing t’s just not THAT much better than other wines.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#71 Post by Kris Patten » September 17th, 2020, 6:53 pm

William Kelley wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 4:21 pm
Brent S wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 3:22 pm
William Kelley (Parker) just hung a 98 point score on it......

"the finest Comtes de Champagne since the brilliant 2002"
Gave it the same score a year ago, so I don't think this is particularly revelatory! But it's true that I haven't left much space for the others... champagne.gif
Any idea on 2008 production William?
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#72 Post by Brent S » September 17th, 2020, 7:03 pm

So our favorite critic scored it 98 on two separate events. I’m excited, provided the price is “reasonable”. Most likely it will come out initially expensive and then work its way down. This is a high production wine. Lots to go around and minimal Restaraunt purchases
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#73 Post by Kris Patten » September 17th, 2020, 8:06 pm

Brent S wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 7:03 pm
So our favorite critic scored it 98 on two separate events. I’m excited, provided the price is “reasonable”. Most likely it will come out initially expensive and then work its way down. This is a high production wine. Lots to go around and minimal Restaraunt purchases
It's 150k to 300k bottles how is that high production? We will see what William or Brad say but I'd bet 2008 is lower than the usual low side.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#74 Post by Kirk.Grant » September 17th, 2020, 8:10 pm

It really depends on how much folks want to pay for that specific bottling. I’ll happily shift my buying over to some other more reasonably priced Champagnes if the wine comes out above $150. Let’s also not forget that premium wines may be struggling if our economy continues to tank under current shifts. I think companies that are considering ratcheting up the price may need a little reminder that when money is tight, luxury wines are the first place many can comfortably cut back. It would be a bummer, but I’ll drink the Pierre Peters BdB for $59 all year long if my budget needs to come down...and tete de cuvée seems like an easy starting place to cut back on the wine budget.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#75 Post by Fred Daniels » September 17th, 2020, 8:53 pm

LOVE LOVE LOVE the avatar. People who don't know wine will be like WHAT?

Frankly I'm tired. I have articles from two and three years ago talking about the "imminent" release of the 2008 Comtes. I've cheered for it on this board and others, and with my wine merchants, and with people directly at the company. I had put aside budget a year ago and that is now almost gone on purchases of Vilmart and others. I feel that now they can't win...if they release at a good price people will be like "I'm so tired of waiting for this" and if they release at a high price people will feel betrayed...

Pretty soon they are going to have to label it Late Disgorged.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#76 Post by Josh Grossman » September 17th, 2020, 9:08 pm

$119 a case. $125 half a case. $135 one bottle. $135.99 I'll just buy more Marguet, Bouchard, Etienne Calsac, Laherte Frères, Moussé Fils, Vilmart and Ployez-Jacquemart; I hear there is a glut of Champagne.

Any idea when the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is due to be released (or the 2002)?

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#77 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 17th, 2020, 9:55 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:08 pm
$119 a case. $125 half a case. $135 one bottle. $135.99 I'll just buy more Marguet, Bouchard, Etienne Calsac, Laherte Frères, Moussé Fils, Vilmart and Ployez-Jacquemart; I hear there is a glut of Champagne.

Any idea when the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is due to be released (or the 2002)?
As much as I’m happy to jabber and read about 2008 Comte as nauseum, 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is like Fight Club. What’s the first rule?

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#78 Post by Josh Grossman » September 17th, 2020, 10:30 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:08 pm
$119 a case. $125 half a case. $135 one bottle. $135.99 I'll just buy more Marguet, Bouchard, Etienne Calsac, Laherte Frères, Moussé Fils, Vilmart and Ployez-Jacquemart; I hear there is a glut of Champagne.

Any idea when the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is due to be released (or the 2002)?
As much as I’m happy to jabber and read about 2008 Comte as nauseum, 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is like Fight Club. What’s the first rule?
Certainly better than that mass produced, conspicuous consumption, Veblen good, LVMH shit. I do think I like no-malo Champagne for aging.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#79 Post by Greg K » September 17th, 2020, 10:34 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 10:30 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:08 pm
$119 a case. $125 half a case. $135 one bottle. $135.99 I'll just buy more Marguet, Bouchard, Etienne Calsac, Laherte Frères, Moussé Fils, Vilmart and Ployez-Jacquemart; I hear there is a glut of Champagne.

Any idea when the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is due to be released (or the 2002)?
As much as I’m happy to jabber and read about 2008 Comte as nauseum, 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is like Fight Club. What’s the first rule?
Certainly better than that mass produced, conspicuous consumption, Veblen good, LVMH shit.
If Comtes was a Veblen good, this thread would be going very differently.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#80 Post by Josh Grossman » September 17th, 2020, 11:00 pm

Greg K wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 10:34 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 10:30 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:55 pm


As much as I’m happy to jabber and read about 2008 Comte as nauseum, 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is like Fight Club. What’s the first rule?
Certainly better than that mass produced, conspicuous consumption, Veblen good, LVMH shit.
If Comtes was a Veblen good, this thread would be going very differently.
I'm pretty sure the people posting here aren't your average customer (although we do like a good bargain):
https://www.wineintelligence.com/downlo ... aits-2018/

LVMH's entire brand is Veblen goods. At a certain point, I do think that is what this thread is about. The question could also be posed, "Will you boycott 2008 Taittinger if they try to price it like LVMH?" I also don't buy any wines made by LVMH. That said, I've also stopped buying PYCM. Certainly hype from enthusiasts builds the conspicuous consumption from the nouveau riche. How else are you going to show your class, taste, and refinement to the haute bourgeoisie?

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#81 Post by Greg K » September 18th, 2020, 5:53 am

Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 11:00 pm
Greg K wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 10:34 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 10:30 pm

Certainly better than that mass produced, conspicuous consumption, Veblen good, LVMH shit.
If Comtes was a Veblen good, this thread would be going very differently.
I'm pretty sure the people posting here aren't your average customer (although we do like a good bargain):
https://www.wineintelligence.com/downlo ... aits-2018/

LVMH's entire brand is Veblen goods. At a certain point, I do think that is what this thread is about. The question could also be posed, "Will you boycott 2008 Taittinger if they try to price it like LVMH?" I also don't buy any wines made by LVMH. That said, I've also stopped buying PYCM. Certainly hype from enthusiasts builds the conspicuous consumption from the nouveau riche. How else are you going to show your class, taste, and refinement to the haute bourgeoisie?
I can throw around Marxist terms too, but Comtes is clearly not a Veblen good, and neither are many products made by LVMH. PYCM as a Veblen good - lol.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#82 Post by Jay Miller » September 18th, 2020, 6:19 am

Greg K wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 5:53 am
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 11:00 pm
Greg K wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 10:34 pm


If Comtes was a Veblen good, this thread would be going very differently.
I'm pretty sure the people posting here aren't your average customer (although we do like a good bargain):
https://www.wineintelligence.com/downlo ... aits-2018/

LVMH's entire brand is Veblen goods. At a certain point, I do think that is what this thread is about. The question could also be posed, "Will you boycott 2008 Taittinger if they try to price it like LVMH?" I also don't buy any wines made by LVMH. That said, I've also stopped buying PYCM. Certainly hype from enthusiasts builds the conspicuous consumption from the nouveau riche. How else are you going to show your class, taste, and refinement to the haute bourgeoisie?
I can throw around Marxist terms too, but Comtes is clearly not a Veblen good, and neither are many products made by LVMH. PYCM as a Veblen good - lol.
Veblen goods can be of very high quality, the only requirement is that they also attract people because of the perceived quality that comes with a high price.

I'm guessing that they may be trying to Veblenize Comtes? If they think they can succeed I don't blame them though I will certainly miss buying it every year. But I also miss buying my old favorite Burgundies, Rougeard, Allemand, etc. and for all those wines I miss buying I somehow still manage to buy too much good wine every year.

If they attract new buyers because of the higher price that would be a success transition to a Veblen good. If they lose buyers because of the higher price then it's just a bad marketing move.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#83 Post by Josh Grossman » September 18th, 2020, 6:27 am

Jay Miller wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:19 am
Greg K wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 5:53 am
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 11:00 pm

I'm pretty sure the people posting here aren't your average customer (although we do like a good bargain):
https://www.wineintelligence.com/downlo ... aits-2018/

LVMH's entire brand is Veblen goods. At a certain point, I do think that is what this thread is about. The question could also be posed, "Will you boycott 2008 Taittinger if they try to price it like LVMH?" I also don't buy any wines made by LVMH. That said, I've also stopped buying PYCM. Certainly hype from enthusiasts builds the conspicuous consumption from the nouveau riche. How else are you going to show your class, taste, and refinement to the haute bourgeoisie?
I can throw around Marxist terms too, but Comtes is clearly not a Veblen good, and neither are many products made by LVMH. PYCM as a Veblen good - lol.
Veblen goods can be of very high quality, the only requirement is that they also attract people because of the perceived quality that comes with a high price.

I'm guessing that they may be trying to Veblenize Comtes? If they think they can succeed I don't blame them though I will certainly miss buying it every year. But I also miss buying my old favorite Burgundies, Rougeard, Allemand, etc. and for all those wines I miss buying I somehow still manage to buy too much good wine every year.

If they attract new buyers because of the higher price that would be a success transition to a Veblen good. If they lose buyers because of the higher price then it's just a bad marketing move.
And the game show goes, "Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!"

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#84 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » September 18th, 2020, 6:31 am

So the 2008 Veblen is good? 🤪

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#85 Post by Josh Grossman » September 18th, 2020, 6:35 am

Jay Miller wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:19 am
I also miss buying my old favorite Burgundies, Rougeard, Allemand, etc. and for all those wines I miss buying I somehow still manage to buy too much good wine every year.

If they attract new buyers because of the higher price that would be a success transition to a Veblen good. If they lose buyers because of the higher price then it's just a bad marketing move.
I also try to give an equally hard time to people who it seems are using Burgundy, Rougeard, and Allemand as status symbols and for conspicuous consumption. I dislike influencers.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#86 Post by Josh Grossman » September 18th, 2020, 6:35 am

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:31 am
So the 2008 Veblen is good? 🤪
Time will tell... Hopefully not. If they increase the price by 68%, and it sells more, that's pretty much the definition.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#87 Post by Greg K » September 18th, 2020, 6:40 am

Jay Miller wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:19 am
Greg K wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 5:53 am
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 11:00 pm

I'm pretty sure the people posting here aren't your average customer (although we do like a good bargain):
https://www.wineintelligence.com/downlo ... aits-2018/

LVMH's entire brand is Veblen goods. At a certain point, I do think that is what this thread is about. The question could also be posed, "Will you boycott 2008 Taittinger if they try to price it like LVMH?" I also don't buy any wines made by LVMH. That said, I've also stopped buying PYCM. Certainly hype from enthusiasts builds the conspicuous consumption from the nouveau riche. How else are you going to show your class, taste, and refinement to the haute bourgeoisie?
I can throw around Marxist terms too, but Comtes is clearly not a Veblen good, and neither are many products made by LVMH. PYCM as a Veblen good - lol.
Veblen goods can be of very high quality, the only requirement is that they also attract people because of the perceived quality that comes with a high price.

I'm guessing that they may be trying to Veblenize Comtes? If they think they can succeed I don't blame them though I will certainly miss buying it every year. But I also miss buying my old favorite Burgundies, Rougeard, Allemand, etc. and for all those wines I miss buying I somehow still manage to buy too much good wine every year.

If they attract new buyers because of the higher price that would be a success transition to a Veblen good. If they lose buyers because of the higher price then it's just a bad marketing move.
I know what a Veblen good is, but there’s no indication that Taittinger is attempting to turn Comtes into a Veblen good, it’s just raising the price. Similarly, I don’t think Allemand is a Veblen good at all - it’s gone up in price because it’s fantastic.

There’s a pattern of thought in some wine circles that expensive wine must all be bullshit because it’s just marketing/conspicuous consumption/Veblen goods/showing off for the haute bourgeoisie. That’s why Josh mentioned PYCM, which is pretty funny, because not only does PYCM produce a lot of relatively inexpensive (under $100) wine, but it’s entirely unknown outside wine circles. (It’s not Dom, Cristal, Lafite, etc.) But because it’s hip, and the prices for PYCM meursault have gone up, it’s a Veblen good now too for Josh. Far more likely, it’s just supply and demand in both situations. There’s really no reason why Comtes, a better wine than Dom in most years, with a smaller production, should be priced cheaper.
And this isn’t some kind of defense of PYCM by the way - I don’t own a single bottle. :)
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#88 Post by Greg K » September 18th, 2020, 6:42 am

Josh Grossman wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:35 am
Jay Miller wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:19 am
I also miss buying my old favorite Burgundies, Rougeard, Allemand, etc. and for all those wines I miss buying I somehow still manage to buy too much good wine every year.

If they attract new buyers because of the higher price that would be a success transition to a Veblen good. If they lose buyers because of the higher price then it's just a bad marketing move.
I also try to give an equally hard time to people who it seems are using Burgundy, Rougeard, and Allemand as status symbols and for conspicuous consumption. I dislike influencers.
Lol. I hope you don’t follow me on Instagram - that jero of 99 sans soufre we popped at the club would be mighty embarrassing right now!
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#89 Post by John Kight » September 18th, 2020, 6:49 am

Craig G wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 4:36 pm
Your quoting is messed up. The struck out part was not part of my post.
You're right, it was supposed to be part of MY post....I've updated/corrected.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#90 Post by Greg K » September 18th, 2020, 7:24 am

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:31 am
So the 2008 Veblen is good? 🤪
I see what you did there. champagne.gif
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#91 Post by Michael S. Monie » September 18th, 2020, 7:25 am

One person's Veblen is another person's Giffen.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#92 Post by Yao C » September 18th, 2020, 9:05 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:08 pm
$119 a case. $125 half a case. $135 one bottle. $135.99 I'll just buy more Marguet, Bouchard, Etienne Calsac, Laherte Frères, Moussé Fils, Vilmart and Ployez-Jacquemart; I hear there is a glut of Champagne.

Any idea when the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is due to be released (or the 2002)?
As much as I’m happy to jabber and read about 2008 Comte as nauseum, 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is like Fight Club. What’s the first rule?
Thank goodness the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Blanc de Blancs is exempt from Fight Club rules as it's lovely [wow.gif]
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#93 Post by Josh Grossman » September 18th, 2020, 9:10 am

Yao C wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 9:05 am
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 9:08 pm
$119 a case. $125 half a case. $135 one bottle. $135.99 I'll just buy more Marguet, Bouchard, Etienne Calsac, Laherte Frères, Moussé Fils, Vilmart and Ployez-Jacquemart; I hear there is a glut of Champagne.

Any idea when the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is due to be released (or the 2002)?
As much as I’m happy to jabber and read about 2008 Comte as nauseum, 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Liesse d'Harbonville is like Fight Club. What’s the first rule?
Thank goodness the 2008 Ployez-Jacquemart Blanc de Blancs is exempt from Fight Club rules as it's lovely [wow.gif]
Haven't broke into the 2008's yet but just opened an 05 Blanc de Blancs and it was singing.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#94 Post by Chris Seiber » September 18th, 2020, 10:22 am

Greg K wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:40 am


There’s a pattern of thought in some wine circles that expensive wine must all be bullshit because it’s just marketing/conspicuous consumption/Veblen goods/showing off for the haute bourgeoisie. That’s why Josh mentioned PYCM, which is pretty funny, because not only does PYCM produce a lot of relatively inexpensive (under $100) wine, but it’s entirely unknown outside wine circles. (It’s not Dom, Cristal, Lafite, etc.) But because it’s hip, and the prices for PYCM meursault have gone up, it’s a Veblen good now too for Josh. Far more likely, it’s just supply and demand in both situations. There’s really no reason why Comtes, a better wine than Dom in most years, with a smaller production, should be priced cheaper.
And this isn’t some kind of defense of PYCM by the way - I don’t own a single bottle. :)
PYCM is clearly regular supply and demand, and demand has gone way up because they make good wines and a lot of people dig them. They aren't attracting buyers because of a high price point -- "Wow, this Rully Les Cailloux is $40, I'll look like a boss serving this to my company."

It's likely that Taittinger leadership thinks the market will bear a higher price point for the Comtes based on what people will pay for other premium Champagne, and they have a highly-rated vintage they can use to test the market on that. The actual demand will show whether that pays off for them or not. Since most of this wine sells through regular retail (at least I think so), it will move or languish on the shelves depending on how buyers respond, and the pricing will evolve accordingly. And then there will be the question of whether the higher price for the 2008 does or does not carry forward to subsequent vintages.

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#95 Post by Greg K » September 18th, 2020, 10:27 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 10:22 am
Greg K wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:40 am


There’s a pattern of thought in some wine circles that expensive wine must all be bullshit because it’s just marketing/conspicuous consumption/Veblen goods/showing off for the haute bourgeoisie. That’s why Josh mentioned PYCM, which is pretty funny, because not only does PYCM produce a lot of relatively inexpensive (under $100) wine, but it’s entirely unknown outside wine circles. (It’s not Dom, Cristal, Lafite, etc.) But because it’s hip, and the prices for PYCM meursault have gone up, it’s a Veblen good now too for Josh. Far more likely, it’s just supply and demand in both situations. There’s really no reason why Comtes, a better wine than Dom in most years, with a smaller production, should be priced cheaper.
And this isn’t some kind of defense of PYCM by the way - I don’t own a single bottle. :)
PYCM is clearly regular supply and demand, and demand has gone way up because they make good wines and a lot of people dig them. They aren't attracting buyers because of a high price point -- "Wow, this Rully Les Cailloux is $40, I'll look like a boss serving this to my company."

It's likely that Taittinger leadership thinks the market will bear a higher price point for the Comtes based on what people will pay for other premium Champagne, and they have a highly-rated vintage they can use to test the market on that. The actual demand will show whether that pays off for them or not. Since most of this wine sells through regular retail (at least I think so), it will move or languish on the shelves depending on how buyers respond, and the pricing will evolve accordingly. And then there will be the question of whether the higher price for the 2008 does or does not carry forward to subsequent vintages.
I have made no comment as to whether PYCM makes good wine, but I completely agree it's a supply and demand issue. I demand none, and the market is happy to supply me with an equal amount at a very fair price :)
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#96 Post by dbailey » September 18th, 2020, 10:38 am

Amusingly, I received an offer today for the 07 comtes from a uk merchant. They were touting it at >10% above what I originally bought mine for and saying they would try to give preference to those who bought it when allocating the extremely scarce 08. I laughed and deleted the email immediately, making a mental note never to deal with that merchant again.
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#97 Post by Jay Miller » September 18th, 2020, 10:44 am

Josh Grossman wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:35 am
Jay Miller wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:19 am
I also miss buying my old favorite Burgundies, Rougeard, Allemand, etc. and for all those wines I miss buying I somehow still manage to buy too much good wine every year.

If they attract new buyers because of the higher price that would be a success transition to a Veblen good. If they lose buyers because of the higher price then it's just a bad marketing move.
I also try to give an equally hard time to people who it seems are using Burgundy, Rougeard, and Allemand as status symbols and for conspicuous consumption. I dislike influencers.

Uh oh. I'd better edit my above post...

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#98 Post by Mark Lewis » September 18th, 2020, 12:43 pm

dbailey wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 10:38 am
Amusingly, I received an offer today for the 07 comtes from a uk merchant. They were touting it at >10% above what I originally bought mine for and saying they would try to give preference to those who bought it when allocating the extremely scarce 08. I laughed and deleted the email immediately, making a mental note never to deal with that merchant again.
Name and shame!

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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#99 Post by Greg K » September 18th, 2020, 1:03 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 10:44 am
Josh Grossman wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:35 am
Jay Miller wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:19 am
I also miss buying my old favorite Burgundies, Rougeard, Allemand, etc. and for all those wines I miss buying I somehow still manage to buy too much good wine every year.

If they attract new buyers because of the higher price that would be a success transition to a Veblen good. If they lose buyers because of the higher price then it's just a bad marketing move.
I also try to give an equally hard time to people who it seems are using Burgundy, Rougeard, and Allemand as status symbols and for conspicuous consumption. I dislike influencers.

Uh oh. I'd better edit my above post...

newhere
And hide your Clos Rougeard tattoo........
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Re: At What Price Point Will You Boycott The 2008 Taittinger Comtes?

#100 Post by Kris Patten » September 18th, 2020, 6:15 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:35 am
Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
September 18th, 2020, 6:31 am
So the 2008 Veblen is good? 🤪
Time will tell... Hopefully not. If they increase the price by 68%, and it sells more, that's pretty much the definition.
Our wholesale on 2008 vs. 2007 went up $13 a bottle.
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