J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

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G. Bienstock
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#51 Post by G. Bienstock » September 3rd, 2020, 3:48 pm

Michael S. Monie wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:29 pm
Any thoughts on JJ Prum's wines from 2003 and 2004? I seem to remember Broadbent thinking that they were not everything that they should have been.
I really like the 2004's. Plenty of acid which suits me just fine.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#52 Post by Chris Seiber » September 3rd, 2020, 4:04 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:38 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:17 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 12:04 pm
Let’s put it this way, in the last 22 vintages I have bought a low of 6 cases and a high of 64.
[swoon.gif]

For yourself? What is your current inventory of Riesling?

64 cases in one vintage is more than two bottles of riesling for every day of the year.
Fortunately, he's likely not intending to drink them all in one year! ;-)
But he bought heavily in 21 other vintages too!

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#53 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » September 3rd, 2020, 4:17 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:04 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:38 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:17 pm


[swoon.gif]

For yourself? What is your current inventory of Riesling?

64 cases in one vintage is more than two bottles of riesling for every day of the year.
Fortunately, he's likely not intending to drink them all in one year! ;-)
But he bought heavily in 21 other vintages too!
Sounds like a great cellar to me. Not too different from my own, except in the details.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#54 Post by TimF » September 3rd, 2020, 4:21 pm

So if you bought 6 cases in a bad year, average 10 cases in the others and had the 64 from the good year that’s over 3,000 bottles of Prum.

Is there anything for sale in your neighborhood?
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#55 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 3rd, 2020, 4:33 pm

RyanC wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 9:01 am
I agree and not many fit the category of genre-defining yet reasonably priced. Some other possibilities though: Foillard, Lopez de Heredia, Huet, Baudry, and a smattering of other Germans and Austrians.
Don’t agree on Foillard as genre-defining. But LdH and Huet for sure.

Prices are stupid for Huet, especially since my grandkids and great grandkids will be drinking my stash in a ideal world assuming I don’t get to them first. And they are not hard to source on release or to back buy at a discount to release price. (Most recently, I back bought some ‘16s at a discount to release pricing. WHWC currently has good pricing on ‘08s, which is a killer vintage, in case anyone is looking.)

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#56 Post by Jim Stewart » September 3rd, 2020, 4:33 pm

fa·nat·ic
/fəˈnadik/
noun. a person whose enthusiasm or zeal for something is extreme or beyond normal limits
usage: David is a Riesling fanatic.
Age merely shows what children we remain.
-Goethe

But I've just noticed that my mind is asleep.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#57 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 3rd, 2020, 4:37 pm

G. Bienstock wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:48 pm
Michael S. Monie wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:29 pm
Any thoughts on JJ Prum's wines from 2003 and 2004? I seem to remember Broadbent thinking that they were not everything that they should have been.
I really like the 2004's. Plenty of acid which suits me just fine.
+1. I’ve largely left mine alone because I thought they needed time.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#58 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 3rd, 2020, 4:40 pm

David, what percentage of your cellar is German Riesling? (I think I’m around 20%.)

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#59 Post by J a y H a c k » September 3rd, 2020, 4:59 pm

I am a big fan of the A. J. Adam Dhroner Hofberg Kabinett. For a while I was picking up magnums for under $40 and a 750 is still under $25.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#60 Post by DanielP » September 3rd, 2020, 5:07 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:34 pm

Same. Plus I will be making a trip to Boston at some point this fall to collect the spoils!
Uhhh grab some more auslese. You know, for the rest of us.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#61 Post by Andrew K. » September 3rd, 2020, 5:13 pm

Robert Dentice wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 11:03 am
Only problem is that there is so little to go around and the secret is out.
Yep. I got allocated a measly single bottle of a few from Flatiron. Hardly worth the postage.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#62 Post by J. Rock » September 3rd, 2020, 5:16 pm

I'm definitely noticing the effect of tariffs this year, and I'm sure the lower yields don't yelp, but German Riesling is still a great value (at least from what I've seen of my usual suspects [Haag, Lieser, Schaefer, Zilliken, and Donnhoff)]).
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#63 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » September 3rd, 2020, 5:25 pm

TimF wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:21 pm
So if you bought 6 cases in a bad year, average 10 cases in the others and had the 64 from the good year that’s over 3,000 bottles of Prum.

Is there anything for sale in your neighborhood?
Not necessarily Prum, German wine.
Last edited by Tom G l a s g o w on September 3rd, 2020, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#64 Post by Robert Dentice » September 3rd, 2020, 5:26 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:40 pm
David, what percentage of your cellar is German Riesling? (I think I’m around 20%.)
For David I would guess 30.3%
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#65 Post by Howard Cooper » September 3rd, 2020, 5:30 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:09 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:05 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 12:45 pm


No. Panzer told me he isn't getting Zilliken anymore since they're being imported by Loosen Bros. now. Haven't seen Schloss Lieser anywhere.

I've ordered Max Ferd Richter, Falkenstein, JJ Prum, Willi Schaefer (awaiting confirmation), and Vollenweider (awaiting confirmation).
Since Schloss Lieser is now imported by Skurnik https://www.skurnik.com/producer/schloss-lieser/ I would think they would be easier to find. Distribution in this country of German wines has really gotten messed up the last couple of years.
Indeed.

I haven’t made an honest attempt to look to see who has the 2019s, since I’ve allocated my “budget” elsewhere. A couple 2016 Schloss Lieser Kabinett in the next couple weeks may change that.
Try a 2010 GKA from him and you will spend a lot of your time searching out his wines.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#66 Post by Howard Cooper » September 3rd, 2020, 5:32 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:34 pm
DanielP wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:26 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:22 pm


I just pulled the trigger on the 19 Prum WS Kab and Spat at Wine Cellarage.

Prices are up about 40% since 15. So taking out tariffs a 15% increase isn’t much.

Von Schubert and Schaefer are also very reasonable considering the track record. And Falkenstein is still stupid cheap even with tariffs and shrinking allocations.
With all the Falkenstein allocations of various casks split up all across the city/country, it's ridiculous how many different retailers I've had to use to cobble together a collection of the different cuvees I wanted.
Same. Plus I will be making a trip to Boston at some point this fall to collect the spoils!
Picked up my Falkenstein case today. champagne.gif neener
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#67 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » September 3rd, 2020, 5:34 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:30 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:09 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:05 pm


Since Schloss Lieser is now imported by Skurnik https://www.skurnik.com/producer/schloss-lieser/ I would think they would be easier to find. Distribution in this country of German wines has really gotten messed up the last couple of years.
Indeed.

I haven’t made an honest attempt to look to see who has the 2019s, since I’ve allocated my “budget” elsewhere. A couple 2016 Schloss Lieser Kabinett in the next couple weeks may change that.
Try a 2010 GKA from him and you will spend a lot of your time searching out his wines.
Trade for my 2016 S-L Doctor GG? 😅
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#68 Post by Howard Cooper » September 3rd, 2020, 5:35 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:34 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:30 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:09 pm


Indeed.

I haven’t made an honest attempt to look to see who has the 2019s, since I’ve allocated my “budget” elsewhere. A couple 2016 Schloss Lieser Kabinett in the next couple weeks may change that.
Try a 2010 GKA from him and you will spend a lot of your time searching out his wines.
Trade for my 2016 S-L Doctor GG? 😅
I am not a GG kind of person.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#69 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 3rd, 2020, 5:49 pm

DanielP wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:07 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:34 pm

Same. Plus I will be making a trip to Boston at some point this fall to collect the spoils!
Uhhh grab some more auslese. You know, for the rest of us.
It’s interesting that the Auslese, which is younger vines, does not seem to be as highly sought. I got 3 bottles. Probably not even close to enough. But I have a lot of Auslese in the cellar to drink including a good amount of Prum.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#70 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 3rd, 2020, 5:53 pm

Andrew K. wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:13 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 11:03 am
Only problem is that there is so little to go around and the secret is out.
Yep. I got allocated a measly single bottle of a few from Flatiron. Hardly worth the postage.
They were way oversubscribed. (You saw their total allocation I assume.) Clara did her best. I only tried for 2 wines and got only one of them.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#71 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 3rd, 2020, 5:55 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:32 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:34 pm
DanielP wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:26 pm


With all the Falkenstein allocations of various casks split up all across the city/country, it's ridiculous how many different retailers I've had to use to cobble together a collection of the different cuvees I wanted.
Same. Plus I will be making a trip to Boston at some point this fall to collect the spoils!
Picked up my Falkenstein case today. champagne.gif neener
In DC? (I talked to Phil this morning if that’s the place.)

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#72 Post by DanielP » September 3rd, 2020, 5:57 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:49 pm
DanielP wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:07 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:34 pm

Same. Plus I will be making a trip to Boston at some point this fall to collect the spoils!
Uhhh grab some more auslese. You know, for the rest of us.
It’s interesting that the Auslese, which is younger vines, does not seem to be as highly sought. I got 3 bottles. Probably not even close to enough. But I have a lot of Auslese in the cellar to drink including a good amount of Prum.
It's just the one of the bottlings (in addition to alte reben kabi) that have been really hard for me to source. As for #8, well let's just say I'll be making a roadtrip to DC.

And yeah, Flatiron has been way oversubscribed for awhile. It's hilarious that the 3 bottles of 2015 euchariusberg kabi i was allocated back then was only 18 bucks.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#73 Post by Howard Cooper » September 3rd, 2020, 6:02 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:55 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 5:32 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:34 pm


Same. Plus I will be making a trip to Boston at some point this fall to collect the spoils!
Picked up my Falkenstein case today. champagne.gif neener
In DC? (I talked to Phil this morning if that’s the place.)
Yep. Got them Tuesday. Picked them up today. Phil is great and really knows his German wines.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#74 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 3rd, 2020, 6:04 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:17 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 12:04 pm
Let’s put it this way, in the last 22 vintages I have bought a low of 6 cases and a high of 64.
[swoon.gif]

For yourself? What is your current inventory of Riesling?

64 cases in one vintage is more than two bottles of riesling for every day of the year.
Current Riesling inventory is about 1500 bottles. Used to be higher.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#75 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » September 3rd, 2020, 6:14 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:38 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:17 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 12:04 pm
Let’s put it this way, in the last 22 vintages I have bought a low of 6 cases and a high of 64.
[swoon.gif]

For yourself? What is your current inventory of Riesling?

64 cases in one vintage is more than two bottles of riesling for every day of the year.
Fortunately, he's likely not intending to drink them all in one year! ;-)
At <10% abv, why not? [wink.gif]
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#76 Post by Chris Seiber » September 3rd, 2020, 7:24 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:04 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:17 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 12:04 pm
Let’s put it this way, in the last 22 vintages I have bought a low of 6 cases and a high of 64.
[swoon.gif]

For yourself? What is your current inventory of Riesling?

64 cases in one vintage is more than two bottles of riesling for every day of the year.
Current Riesling inventory is about 1500 bottles. Used to be higher.
Much respect!

You should buy Lotus of Siam and move in.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#77 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 3rd, 2020, 7:44 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:40 pm
David, what percentage of your cellar is German Riesling? (I think I’m around 20%.)
It hovers between 35 and 40%. It used to be 50%, but then I started buying Burgundy in quantity, as well as Bedrock!
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#78 Post by Marshall Manning » September 3rd, 2020, 8:33 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 2:45 pm
From what Rob Panzer and others have told me, winemaking style is unchanged at JJ Prum since Katharina took over. How climate change may affect their longevity may be the bigger question.
I think Katharina has been primarily making the wines since around 2005-6, so yeah, they are just fine.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#79 Post by Thomas Keim » September 3rd, 2020, 8:49 pm

Russell Faulkner wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 11:08 am
I love Falkenstein and bought a shed load of 2019s (and before). But they don’t have the track record of Prum, who does consistently? Egon but you can’t call that reasonably priced.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#80 Post by RyanC » September 3rd, 2020, 8:55 pm

Thomas Keim wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:49 pm
Russell Faulkner wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 11:08 am
I love Falkenstein and bought a shed load of 2019s (and before). But they don’t have the track record of Prum, who does consistently? Egon but you can’t call that reasonably priced.
Maximin Grunhaus - and maybe one notch behind, Fritz Haag -
Maximin Grunhaus is a great call. I've had some old M-G wines that blew me away.

It's a name not often mentioned with the upper echelon, but I also really like Reinhold Haart as a winemaker with a longer track record. The wines are silly cheap for the quality. Several years ago, I picked up six of his '01 Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Spätlese for something like $35/btl. Each has been absolutely spellbinding (I think I have one left), and I've very much enjoyed his younger wines. I'm not enough of an expert in German wine or Haart specifically to know anything about how the winemaking has changed (if at all) over the years, but I know enough to know that if the current vintages age anything like the '01, they will be stupid bargains.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#81 Post by Russell Faulkner » September 3rd, 2020, 9:17 pm

Love Grunhaus. As consistent as Prum though? Up to you. Willi Schaefer is another where I’ve enjoyed excellent bottles back to 1970, but Manfred had already been making (or at least involved) great wines at Prum for 7 years then (IIRC), Not to say earlier ones were not also wonderful.

My wife and I have already opened 40 bottles of 2019, including Falkenstein #11,#12 and #14. It’s a really brilliant vintage.
Last edited by Russell Faulkner on September 3rd, 2020, 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#82 Post by DanielP » September 3rd, 2020, 9:34 pm

Russell Faulkner wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 9:17 pm
Love Grunhaus. As consistent as Prum though? Up to you. Willi Schaefer is another where I’ve enjoyed excellent bottles back to 1970, but Manfred had already been making great wines at Prum for 7 years then (IIRC), Not to say earlier ones were not also wonderful.

My wife and I have already opened 40 bottles of 2019, including Falkenstein #11,#12 and #14. It’s a really brilliant vintage.
I know the topic is about Prum, but does anyone know if any 750mLs of #11 made it to the US? All I've seen are magnums
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#83 Post by Howard Cooper » September 4th, 2020, 4:02 am

RyanC wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:55 pm
Thomas Keim wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:49 pm
Russell Faulkner wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 11:08 am
I love Falkenstein and bought a shed load of 2019s (and before). But they don’t have the track record of Prum, who does consistently? Egon but you can’t call that reasonably priced.
Maximin Grunhaus - and maybe one notch behind, Fritz Haag -
Maximin Grunhaus is a great call. I've had some old M-G wines that blew me away.

It's a name not often mentioned with the upper echelon, but I also really like Reinhold Haart as a winemaker with a longer track record. The wines are silly cheap for the quality. Several years ago, I picked up six of his '01 Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Spätlese for something like $35/btl. Each has been absolutely spellbinding (I think I have one left), and I've very much enjoyed his younger wines. I'm not enough of an expert in German wine or Haart specifically to know anything about how the winemaking has changed (if at all) over the years, but I know enough to know that if the current vintages age anything like the '01, they will be stupid bargains.
Reinhold Haart (well now actually Theo Haart and his son Johannes) still make great wines. In terms of quantity of wines in my cellar, in German wines my top producers are Prum, Reinhold Haart, Zilliken and von Schubert, in that order - although Haart and Zilliken are pretty close between second and third and go back and forth often.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#84 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 4th, 2020, 5:41 am

TimF wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:21 pm
So if you bought 6 cases in a bad year, average 10 cases in the others and had the 64 from the good year that’s over 3,000 bottles of Prum.

Is there anything for sale in your neighborhood?
That’s overall German Riesling. I only have about 250 bottles of Prüm right now.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#85 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » September 4th, 2020, 5:42 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:17 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 12:04 pm
Let’s put it this way, in the last 22 vintages I have bought a low of 6 cases and a high of 64.
[swoon.gif]

For yourself? What is your current inventory of Riesling?

64 cases in one vintage is more than two bottles of riesling for every day of the year.
I checked CT last night, out curiosity, and, while we never got quite to 64 cases in a single vintage and a few were probably lower than 6, it looks as if we/Jonathan bought German Riesling with similar consistency back to the 1998 vintage. He didn't keep records before we got married, but current inventory shows us still having at least a case left in the cellar for every vintage from 1998 - 2019, except 2000 (only 4 left), and a smattering of older bottles as well. JJ Prum shows up in almost all vintages, interestingly.

So David isn't at all alone, and I know many people who have bought a lot more. I do think it would be hard to have bought any other region with this depth and consistency over that period, sticking largely to the same producers, give or take.
Sort of ITB - my husband imports a small amount of sake and I help out

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#86 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 4th, 2020, 6:50 am

Exactly right Sarah. I know we buy somewhat different things, with crossover in some areas, but it's so easy to keep buying the same wines from the same producers we enjoy. Yeah, I wince a little when a favorite Spätlese crosses the $60 mark (thank you tariffs!), and my exploration of the GG category has been slowed by rising prices (again, thank you tariffs!!), but there's so much great wine to explore. This year will actually be much more eclectic for me than most vintages, largely because I did not get to attend the Skurnik DI event (it never happened), and so am not loading up on "Theise" (in quotes as he no longer works iwht Skurnik) portfolio wines. That's left room for a few cases of Pfalz dry wines, some Rheinhessen stuff I rarely try, and some different producers in the Mosel.

Still have to buy Prüm, Dönnhoff, Selbach, etc., but again it's just so easy.

p.s. Only 12 bottles of 2000 German Riesling left in my cellar.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#87 Post by Marshall Manning » September 4th, 2020, 10:11 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 5:41 am
That’s overall German Riesling. I only have about 250 bottles of Prüm right now.
ONLY?
Marshall

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#88 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 4th, 2020, 10:16 am

Marshall Manning wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 10:11 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 5:41 am
That’s overall German Riesling. I only have about 250 bottles of Prüm right now.
ONLY?
It's behind Dönnhoff.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#89 Post by Russell Faulkner » September 4th, 2020, 10:22 am

2019 Falkenstein Gisela is singing tonight. But Schaefer GH is showing better IMHO, though totally different.
1CE4E1E6-42A3-4A85-9A0E-4034654F9476.jpeg

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#90 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » September 4th, 2020, 10:35 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:04 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 3:17 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 12:04 pm
Let’s put it this way, in the last 22 vintages I have bought a low of 6 cases and a high of 64.
[swoon.gif]

For yourself? What is your current inventory of Riesling?

64 cases in one vintage is more than two bottles of riesling for every day of the year.
Current Riesling inventory is about 1500 bottles. Used to be higher.
Just a little window into how warped our perspective can be: I am surprised to see 1500 bottles of current Riesling inventory!! I would have guessed approx. double that.
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#91 Post by Chris Seiber » September 4th, 2020, 2:21 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 10:16 am
Marshall Manning wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 10:11 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 5:41 am
That’s overall German Riesling. I only have about 250 bottles of Prüm right now.
ONLY?
It's behind Dönnhoff.
How have you found those to age? I have read some mixed things, and I’ve had a couple of older ones that seemed flabby, but maybe it was just that particular bottling/vintage/age or maybe just my yak palate.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#92 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 4th, 2020, 2:31 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 2:21 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 10:16 am
Marshall Manning wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 10:11 am


ONLY?
It's behind Dönnhoff.
How have you found those to age? I have read some mixed things, and I’ve had a couple of older ones that seemed flabby, but maybe it was just that particular bottling/vintage/age or maybe just my yak palate.
I love how they age. I also love them young. I even age the lower level bottlings. Drinking the 2011 Estate Riesling these days, and it’s great as it approaches age 10. The 2012 still needs a little more time, but it’s even better. The 2001 and 2002 Spätlese wines are totally in their sweet spot now IMO.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#93 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » September 4th, 2020, 4:22 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:02 am
RyanC wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:55 pm
Thomas Keim wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:49 pm


Maximin Grunhaus - and maybe one notch behind, Fritz Haag -
Maximin Grunhaus is a great call. I've had some old M-G wines that blew me away.

It's a name not often mentioned with the upper echelon, but I also really like Reinhold Haart as a winemaker with a longer track record. The wines are silly cheap for the quality. Several years ago, I picked up six of his '01 Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Spätlese for something like $35/btl. Each has been absolutely spellbinding (I think I have one left), and I've very much enjoyed his younger wines. I'm not enough of an expert in German wine or Haart specifically to know anything about how the winemaking has changed (if at all) over the years, but I know enough to know that if the current vintages age anything like the '01, they will be stupid bargains.
Reinhold Haart (well now actually Theo Haart and his son Johannes) still make great wines. In terms of quantity of wines in my cellar, in German wines my top producers are Prum, Reinhold Haart, Zilliken and von Schubert, in that order - although Haart and Zilliken are pretty close between second and third and go back and forth often.
I brought some Reinhold Haart stickies back from Germany after we visited. Could care less about the dry wines, but they really shine with the auslese.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#94 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 4th, 2020, 4:26 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:22 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:02 am
RyanC wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:55 pm


Maximin Grunhaus is a great call. I've had some old M-G wines that blew me away.

It's a name not often mentioned with the upper echelon, but I also really like Reinhold Haart as a winemaker with a longer track record. The wines are silly cheap for the quality. Several years ago, I picked up six of his '01 Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Spätlese for something like $35/btl. Each has been absolutely spellbinding (I think I have one left), and I've very much enjoyed his younger wines. I'm not enough of an expert in German wine or Haart specifically to know anything about how the winemaking has changed (if at all) over the years, but I know enough to know that if the current vintages age anything like the '01, they will be stupid bargains.
Reinhold Haart (well now actually Theo Haart and his son Johannes) still make great wines. In terms of quantity of wines in my cellar, in German wines my top producers are Prum, Reinhold Haart, Zilliken and von Schubert, in that order - although Haart and Zilliken are pretty close between second and third and go back and forth often.
I brought some Reinhold Haart stickies back from Germany after we visited. Could care less about the dry wines, but they really shine with the auslese.
Brian,

The Ohligsberg Spätlese is a delicious wine.
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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#95 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » September 4th, 2020, 4:36 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:26 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:22 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:02 am


Reinhold Haart (well now actually Theo Haart and his son Johannes) still make great wines. In terms of quantity of wines in my cellar, in German wines my top producers are Prum, Reinhold Haart, Zilliken and von Schubert, in that order - although Haart and Zilliken are pretty close between second and third and go back and forth often.
I brought some Reinhold Haart stickies back from Germany after we visited. Could care less about the dry wines, but they really shine with the auslese.
Brian,

The Ohligsberg Spätlese is a delicious wine.
Not saying it isn't, and I have a couple. It's hard to find.
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#96 Post by K Kl@dder » September 4th, 2020, 4:51 pm

So you all have me intrigued on JJ Prum. Never tried it, but interested to seek it out. Where would you recommend I start? Looks like I can get the below at my local Binnys. Anything worth taking a swing at, or simply "buy all 5 and give it a go"

2018 Graacher Himmelreich Spatlese
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Kabinett
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Auslese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett

Appreciate the input
K e i t h

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#97 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » September 4th, 2020, 4:54 pm

K Kl@dder wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:51 pm
So you all have me intrigued on JJ Prum. Never tried it, but interested to seek it out. Where would you recommend I start? Looks like I can get the below at my local Binnys. Anything worth taking a swing at, or simply "buy all 5 and give it a go"

2018 Graacher Himmelreich Spatlese
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Kabinett
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Auslese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett

Appreciate the input
Yes
CT: InZinity

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2018 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshöhle GG
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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Joined: January 27th, 2020, 2:02 pm

Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#98 Post by K Kl@dder » September 4th, 2020, 5:02 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:54 pm
K Kl@dder wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:51 pm
So you all have me intrigued on JJ Prum. Never tried it, but interested to seek it out. Where would you recommend I start? Looks like I can get the below at my local Binnys. Anything worth taking a swing at, or simply "buy all 5 and give it a go"

2018 Graacher Himmelreich Spatlese
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Kabinett
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Auslese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett

Appreciate the input
Yes
How did I know that was the answer??? So it shall be.
K e i t h

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#99 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » September 4th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Keith,
Buy one bottle of each. They are all excellent; which one you like the most is a personal preference thing. I'm (strongly) partial to Wehlener Sonnenuhr, and that almost certainly is JJ Prum's most popular vineyard, but plenty of folks prefer some of their other wines.
“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

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Re: J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

#100 Post by Andrew K. » September 4th, 2020, 6:37 pm

K Kl@dder wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:51 pm
So you all have me intrigued on JJ Prum. Never tried it, but interested to seek it out. Where would you recommend I start? Looks like I can get the below at my local Binnys. Anything worth taking a swing at, or simply "buy all 5 and give it a go"

2018 Graacher Himmelreich Spatlese
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Kabinett
2018 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Auslese
2018 Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett

Appreciate the input
Depends on the price point. Definitely buy one to try, but shop around for the best prices to stock up on your favorites.
к𝓁ย𝐠

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