happy Tuesday! I am new to the forum, and excited to have found a community of like-minded people who enjoy wines as much as I do.
Last year, I started building my cellar, accumulating now around 180 bottles. They include some high-quality wines like Sassicaia 2015 and Leoville-Poyfoirre 2010, and a few Whie Burgundy Grand Crus; then some good Barolos (think Paolo Scavino Bricco Ambrogio 2014, a couple dozen CdP’s of which some Premiem Cru (if you wanna call them that), some Vintage Port, some Condrieu and HErmitage - you get the idea. Then I have maybe 50 bottle of everyday wines <$30 that I like to enjoy during the week.
My strategy has been to build a variety of wines to pair with food - both my wife and I enjoy cooking a lot; I have two wine fridges that can hold up to 320 bottles, plus a cool area where wines can sit 2-3 years. What would you strategy be to create a good mix of wines to drink everyday, to have some nicer one to enjoy twice a month (50-100 dollars range), and 1/3 for special occasions? Also, which super-high end wines would you add for 10+ years aging?
Hi Robert! Vintage Port has a huge aging curve and the great, recent vintages like 2017 won’t fully hit their stride for a few decades. For everyday consumption I would recommend LBVs for ruby port and 10 or 20 year old tawnies (Graham’s 20 is a favorite of mine, but Kopke has a great over all line up) for cask aged ports. Among Portuguese red table/still wines on the premium end which should be available in the US, you’ve got, also in the Douro, Barca Velha (possibly above your budget), Quinta do Vale Meão, Abandonado, Quinta Vale Dona Maria, the higher end bottlings from Quinta do Crasto (Vinha da Ponte, Vinha Maria Teresa) and, in the Alentejo, Herdade do Mouchão Tonel 3-4. Slightly more affordable, and from the more elegant Dão region, you’ve got Álvaro Castro’s Carrocel, probably the best Touriga Nacional varietal wine on the market.
Over the years I have tries exploring different regions to understand what I like better. Bordeaux, burgundy, Piedmont, Loire, and Rioja were some of my early forays.
I’m guilty of spending more than I probably need to … it’s hard to strike a balance of buying wines you want to buy - and there’s a ton out there - vs just the wines you actually see yourself drinking in your day to day life – I guess that’s why we call it “collecting?” I have way too much expensive wine and not nearly enough occasion to drink them. Then there’s the debate of do you want to buy a case of 2-3 special wines and “follow it” over 10-20 years or do you want to buy 1-2 bottles of 15 or 20 different special wines and get to experience all of them?
Which super high end wines? I personally avoid the Burgundy playground because super high end there is just out of sight expensive. For me, California wines like Dominus, Ridge, Eisele, etc “super second” growth BDX and Northern Rhone can all provide a lot of satisfaction/ in the $150-350 price point per bottle and will age well. There’s obviously lots of age potential and value in that same price range in Italy – Piedmont and Tuscany – (as well as other regions like Rioja) I just don’t happen to collect them too much.
You may want to exercise caution buying in quantity and stockpiling so called everyday wines. You can acquire these on a per need basis, enjoy greater variety, and won’t find yourself down the road with a lot of wines that you are not really crazy about drinking any longer. If you don’t have a prejudice against sweet wines, lay away some German Riesling. Most are very affordable and very long lived.
Definitely love good German Riesling. In fact, I will be in Germany in a couple weeks and I am looking to a few Spatlese to add to my collection. Any sugegstion for minerality?
I would try to find some back vintages that are affordable so you can enjoy some wine now and let that guide you with what to buy to meet your tastes going forward.
This for sure. With a smaller collection and your ageworthy wines all very young, you’re going to either (a) not have premium wines to drink when there are occasions for it, or (b) be tempted to drink your ageworthy wines way too young. Plus, you’re going to be collecting expensive wines to age without really knowing how much you like them at what ages - better to find out early on and let that guide your collecting.
Look at retail or on sites like winebid for mature versions of the types of wines that interest you, and apply a significant portion of your budget to those for the next few years. If you focus on good drinkers in those categories but not collector trophy labels, you won’t necessarily pay more or much more than you are paying for new releases.
I also agree, with smaller storage capacity, don’t overload on daily drinker wines. You’ll find some $20 bottle that you like and be tempted to buy a case or two of it – do that a few times and there goes all your room and budget, and you would have been better served trying two each of 6-12 different wines than a case or two of that same one.
My advice would be to go slow – don’t load up on long-term wines you’re not that familiar with. Don’t buy just because it has a great reputation. It might not be your cup of tea (to mix beverage metaphors). There will always be lots of good wine out there.
There are a lot of wines in the 100-300 range that are enjoyable and high-end IMO in Burgundy. Think Corton-Charlemagne and Cortons/Gevrey-Chambertins. Sure - not Romanee-Conti, but great anyways!
Any advice given will change based on the advisor’s rate of consumption and cellar space. The one thing that may be universal is to really plan ahead on the long term bottles. A daily drinker taking up 1 of 300 spaces is significantly different than a 10+ year bottle. When I started (recently) I overbought long term wines and quickly realized I don’t have the space to cellar those while building the collection of daily and mid-term wines I want to have on hand.
Along the same lines, you also don’t want to load up on too many daily drinkers, particularly those that are easily obtained.
And there are those who will swear all roads lead to burgundy, but I think they really lead to champagne
Roberto said he has a cool area where wines can sit for 2-3 years, so it doesn’t sound like he needs to take up space in the wine fridge with daily drinkers.
Riesling benefits hugely (IMO) from aging. 15+ years can turn a decent $25 Kabinett into an amazing wine experience. But there are different opinions, and many prefer them in their sweet youth.
I think very little Chianti is aged, but the good ones do age pretty well. Again, the thing would be to find some 15 year old Felsina, Monsanto, something like that, and see if you like it and whether you think it’s worth the patience and allocation of storage space. When you do that, also be aware that aged Chianti may develop that fine sediment, so you’ll need to stand the bottle up for a week or longer and then pour carefully, or else you may get a cloudy and bitter-tasting wine. Personally, I age some Felsina and Monsanto, and I think it pays off modestly, but if I had more limited storage space, Chianti wouldn’t be very high on my priority list for buying wines to age. Others will probably disagree.
I am also interested in attending more tasting events. I attended James Suckling’s Wines of Italy in February when he was in Dallas and I thought that was a great way to try many new wines to understand what I like and what not.
This is one of the best things you can do once it becomes feasible again. Also for the future is attending dinners with other wine lovers can expose you to wines you might not otherwise try. You want to figure out what you like before investing heavily in any one area.
For example you ask about aging Chianti. I would say yes (from the right producers) but there are wines I’ve loved that friends have pronounced over the hill. A lot depends on what you like. I was recently outbid on some 1985 Felsina Fontalloro at auction so there are at least 2 people who like what sangiovese does with age .
And it’s not just super high end wines that will benefit from age. Just as there are some expensive wines that don’t really improve that much with time.
One thing that I would keep in mind is that even the wines that everyone says should be aged for a long time, may not be for you with long term aging. There are plenty of people that just don’t love long aged wines of certain types - and that is ok! What I would do is focus on wines that you personally enjoy at 10+ years of bottle age and focus on those. You may find that some of the “age worthy wines” are wines that you actually prefer young and can just buy as you go.
Another aspect to take into account is how sensitive wines are to proper storage needs. There was a great thread on here recently about aging champagne and one of themes that developed is that many folks think that champagne is particularly sensitive to proper storage condition, with many agreeing that they just flat out won’t buy aged champagne. If aged champagne is your thing - it may be worth devoting a good portion of your cellar to it.
Lastly, take a look at the availability of back vintage wines and think about that when stockpiling. If you really fancy super second Bordeaux, back vintages of those can be found relatively easily - albeit with a price premium. However, if your thing is buying low production burgundy - it may not be so easy to obtain in the future and would therefore justify some cellar space.
Regarding daily drinkers - I’d highly recommend putting a good bit of those in your cool storage room for a year or two. I am always happy when I have the space and time to give a $25 bottle of wine an extra year or two in bottle before opening it. I can’t think of many wines that I drink that don’t benefit from short term aging.
One last point… this hobby has a tendency to get much bigger than you might initially think, so just be prepared!
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