Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

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AlexO
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Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#1 Post by AlexO » August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm

Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.

I find it interesting that Jen Dunnuck is going to release his reviews of 2018 Realm on Monday. Very timely given that the realm release starts Tuesday.

However, WA hasn’t even released reviews of the 2017 realm. But don’t worry, they did review the 2017 and 2018 treasury wines, for those of us that want to buy etude Pinot noir.

I remember when it was reasonable to expect good reviewers to post reviews of CA wines before they were even released. I mean when was the last time they reviewed SQN?

Do wineries just not want to let them review their wine anymore? Just seems like they are quickly become more irrelevant every day.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#2 Post by Andrew K. » August 28th, 2020, 8:21 pm

Maybe they only want to review relevant wine? [wink.gif]
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#3 Post by MICHAEL C R O M W E L L » August 29th, 2020, 1:28 am

Andrew K. wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 8:21 pm
Maybe they only want to review relevant wine? [wink.gif]
. . .And we’re off to the races. pileon deadhorse
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#4 Post by crickey » August 29th, 2020, 4:47 am

The Napa report usually comes out in October and December. It's August. In any event, with the virus situation, I would expect the report to be shorter than normal. SQN reviews are apparently coming out in a few days.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#5 Post by Steve Crawford » August 29th, 2020, 5:31 am

WA put out sqn/andremily/faethm reviews 6/19.
i’ve been done with WA for a while because I don’t care for anyone there.
I don’t really see a gap in coverage between vinous and Jeb as far as what interests me. ymmv.

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#6 Post by J. Rock » August 29th, 2020, 9:15 am

The SQN/Fingers Crossed/etc. reviews are coming out on Monday I think. It certainly is more helpful when the reviews come out before the wines are released. I was very happy to see their Riesling reviews before those wines hit the states and even before Mosel Fine Wine reviewed some of the wines.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#7 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 29th, 2020, 10:05 am

Wine mag doesn't review your favorite wine means they have given up?

Seems like a bit of a stretch.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#8 Post by Sh@n A » August 29th, 2020, 10:06 am

No CT integration
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#9 Post by Marshall Manning » August 29th, 2020, 10:18 am

Aren't all the SQN wines going to be big, jammy, and alcoholic and get 95+ points anyway? If you like that style who cares about the reviews...just buy them.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#10 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » August 29th, 2020, 10:20 am

We'll know the WA is truly over when:

1) Lisa Perroti-Brown reaches the logical end point of her critical journey by giving 100 points to every Bordeaux that costs over $100
2) William Kelly leaves to start his new photo site full of spectacular visuals of vineyard canopy management

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#11 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » August 29th, 2020, 10:24 am

Marshall Manning wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 10:18 am
Aren't all the SQN wines going to be big, jammy, and alcoholic and get 95+ points anyway? If you like that style who cares about the reviews...just buy them.
yeah, there are a lot of wines for which this is true. If something is an established brand name and sells for a lot of money the only question is where on the 95-100 point scale the critic is going to put it this year.

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#12 Post by Cris Whetstone » August 29th, 2020, 10:54 am

Honest question but does anyone really wait for reviews to purchase SQN or Realm? Or is just to make sure there isn't something wrong and they suddenly released below 90 pt wines?
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#13 Post by larry schaffer » August 29th, 2020, 10:56 am

No
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#14 Post by John Glas » August 29th, 2020, 11:35 am

Aren't all the SQN wines going to be big, jammy, and alcoholic and get 95+ points anyway? If you like that style who cares about the reviews...just buy them.
Good point. Do they need to waste bottles sending them to WA when they could just sell them?

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#15 Post by Glenn P » August 29th, 2020, 12:35 pm

You know its bad when you can predict Lisa’s scores (within a point or two) just by knowing the name of the wine!
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#16 Post by Brian Glas » August 29th, 2020, 5:01 pm

John Glas wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 11:35 am
Aren't all the SQN wines going to be big, jammy, and alcoholic and get 95+ points anyway? If you like that style who cares about the reviews...just buy them.
Good point. Do they need to waste bottles sending them to WA when they could just sell them?
Agreed. They are fools wasting their time sending them to Wine Advocate. Now if they sent them to 3 Day Wine Review instead that would be smart.... [tease.gif]

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#17 Post by Philip N. Jones » August 29th, 2020, 5:08 pm

I quit when they moved to electronic only, and did not tell me, a print subscriber. They told me only when I asked where my print issue would arrive, since it was late.

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#18 Post by Jeremy Holmes » August 29th, 2020, 5:24 pm

William Kelley's reviews worth the price of admission alone. Stop your sookin' and subscribe.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#19 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 29th, 2020, 5:26 pm

Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:24 pm
William Kelley's reviews worth the price of admission alone. Stop your sookin' and subscribe.
Yup

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#20 Post by Marc_Hanes » August 29th, 2020, 5:28 pm

Cris Whetstone wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 10:54 am
does anyone really wait for reviews to purchase SQN
No. But they do wait for the reviews to sell them.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#21 Post by alan weinberg » August 29th, 2020, 5:38 pm

Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:24 pm
William Kelley's reviews worth the price of admission alone. Stop your sookin' and subscribe.
WK needs to go off like Meadows or Gilman. I’d subscribe.

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#22 Post by Jeremy Holmes » August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm

The thing is, William Kelley provides an enormous amount of quality, intellectual property to this board at no charge. I reckon it is fair to reciprocate and subscribe.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#23 Post by Rich Brown » August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:38 pm
Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:24 pm
William Kelley's reviews worth the price of admission alone. Stop your sookin' and subscribe.
WK needs to go off like Meadows or Gilman. I’d subscribe.
100%. I literally have zero interest to subscribing to any current publications/reviewers.....but wouldn't think twice if WK did his own thing. Willing to bet a LOT of peeps here would do the same.

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#24 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 29th, 2020, 5:46 pm

Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm
The thing is, William Kelley provides an enormous amount of quality, intellectual property to this board at no charge. I reckon it is fair to reciprocate and subscribe.
Honestly, that was exactly my feeling, and why after almost 20 years, I re-subscribed. TWA would be wise to build the platform around him, the next generation of substantive wine writers.

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#25 Post by Pat Martin » August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm

AlexO wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm
Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.
Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#26 Post by Pat Martin » August 29th, 2020, 5:51 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:46 pm
Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm
The thing is, William Kelley provides an enormous amount of quality, intellectual property to this board at no charge. I reckon it is fair to reciprocate and subscribe.
Honestly, that was exactly my feeling, and why after almost 20 years, I re-subscribed. TWA would be wise to build the platform around him, the next generation of substantive wine writers.
Big +1. I haven’t resubscribed (yet), mostly cause I’m trying to buy less, but WK would/will be the reason I do opt in again.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#27 Post by Rich Brown » August 29th, 2020, 6:13 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:46 pm
Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm
The thing is, William Kelley provides an enormous amount of quality, intellectual property to this board at no charge. I reckon it is fair to reciprocate and subscribe.
Honestly, that was exactly my feeling, and why after almost 20 years, I re-subscribed. TWA would be wise to build the platform around him, the next generation of substantive wine writers.
If they did make a clear effort to focus the pub around him, I would prob think about it. If those aren't the types of conversations that they're having with him.....I do think he would easily be able to pull off a solo move, and i would support it instantly.

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#28 Post by Jeb Dunnuck » August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm
AlexO wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm
Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.
Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#29 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 29th, 2020, 6:57 pm

Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm
AlexO wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm
Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.
Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#30 Post by AndyK » August 29th, 2020, 7:44 pm

I'm seriously thinking of subscribing for the first time, being a Vinous-only subscriber for now. For a long time, my impression was they were dead, but William's contributions here are extremely valuable and I would love to read more of his work. Plus David Schildknecht is always so late on regions I care about and has a writing style I cannot stand...
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#31 Post by Alan Rath » August 29th, 2020, 8:43 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:57 pm
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#32 Post by Pat Martin » August 29th, 2020, 11:51 pm

Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm
AlexO wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm
Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.
Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
My comments were unduly rude and I retract them with my regrets. Sorry.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#33 Post by Tom Taylor » August 30th, 2020, 4:11 am

Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 11:51 pm
Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm


Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
My comments were unduly rude and I retract them with my regrets. Sorry.

I’m sure only because the person they were directed at saw them.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#34 Post by Dennis Borczon » August 30th, 2020, 6:15 am

Rich Brown wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:13 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:46 pm
Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm
The thing is, William Kelley provides an enormous amount of quality, intellectual property to this board at no charge. I reckon it is fair to reciprocate and subscribe.
Honestly, that was exactly my feeling, and why after almost 20 years, I re-subscribed. TWA would be wise to build the platform around him, the next generation of substantive wine writers.
If they did make a clear effort to focus the pub around him, I would prob think about it. If those aren't the types of conversations that they're having with him.....I do think he would easily be able to pull off a solo move, and i would support it instantly.
Ok so who is going to start the FREE WILLIAM KELLEY! thread...

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#35 Post by Howard Cooper » August 30th, 2020, 6:31 am

Marshall Manning wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 10:18 am
Aren't all the SQN wines going to be big, jammy, and alcoholic and get 95+ points anyway? If you like that style who cares about the reviews...just buy them.
And taste like Black Forest Cake.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#36 Post by Brad England » August 30th, 2020, 6:32 am

Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm
The thing is, William Kelley provides an enormous amount of quality, intellectual property to this board at no charge. I reckon it is fair to reciprocate and subscribe.
Agree, and I resubscribed to TWA about a year ago solely due to William’s contributions here. He's fantastic.
And for those looking to try another interesting site for a year (or forever), have a look at Jasper Morris's Inside Burgundy. It syncs with CT, and I really enjoy his notes/reviews.
Last edited by Brad England on August 30th, 2020, 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#37 Post by Brad England » August 30th, 2020, 6:41 am

Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm
AlexO wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm
Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.
Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
Jeb, it's just that you're out of shape, unattractive, have a low IQ, and present an off putting personality. Other than that, no one hates! Oh, and there's your association with a certain Nebbiolo lover, showing lack of judgement. neener
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#38 Post by Sean S y d n e y » August 30th, 2020, 6:59 am

As always, I think folks are more than entitled to their opinions about the WA and their stable of critics but I think it is disrespectful to William and the generous, rather well-priced contributions he makes here to talk about “freeing” him. I know that it’s somewhat in jest, but it takes one higher-up to express concern about the dialogue surrounding his work at WA here and that’s it for the wonderful pictures of Burgundy canopy management.

I am sure he has his pick of places to work for. He close the WA, and I’m happy to be a subscriber for access to his work.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#39 Post by Kris Patten » August 30th, 2020, 7:36 am

Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 11:51 pm
Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm


Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
My comments were unduly rude and I retract them with my regrets. Sorry.
Wuss. [rofl.gif]
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#40 Post by Robert Dentice » August 30th, 2020, 8:41 am

Rich Brown wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:44 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:38 pm
Jeremy Holmes wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:24 pm
William Kelley's reviews worth the price of admission alone. Stop your sookin' and subscribe.
WK needs to go off like Meadows or Gilman. I’d subscribe.
100%. I literally have zero interest to subscribing to any current publications/reviewers.....but wouldn't think twice if WK did his own thing. Willing to bet a LOT of peeps here would do the same.
If William picked up Germany and went out on his own I would pay 2-3x what I pay for the Wine Advocate
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#41 Post by Craig G » August 30th, 2020, 10:04 am

Kris Patten wrote:
August 30th, 2020, 7:36 am
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 11:51 pm
Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm

Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
My comments were unduly rude and I retract them with my regrets. Sorry.
Wuss. [rofl.gif]
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#42 Post by Will Clements » August 30th, 2020, 10:41 am

Brad England wrote:
August 30th, 2020, 6:41 am
Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm


Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
Jeb, it's just that you're out of shape, unattractive, have a low IQ, and present an off putting personality. Other than that, no one hates! Oh, and there's your association with a certain Nebbiolo lover, showing lack of judgement. neener
I subscribed based on these comments!
(Not really but did recently subscribe to Jeb’s site)

I read the Wine Advocate, Vinous, and Jeb Dunnuck
I figure if I’m willing to spend $500 on a bottle of wine why not accrue some insights prior.

(Edited to correct an auto correct)

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#43 Post by Bryan Price » August 30th, 2020, 3:04 pm

Will Clements wrote:
August 30th, 2020, 10:41 am
Brad England wrote:
August 30th, 2020, 6:41 am
Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm

Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?
Jeb, it's just that you're out of shape, unattractive, have a low IQ, and present an off putting personality. Other than that, no one hates! Oh, and there's your association with a certain Nebbiolo lover, showing lack of judgement. neener
I subscribed based on these comments!
(Not really but did recently subscribe to Jeb’s site)

I read the Wine Advocate, Vinous, and Jeb Dunnuck
I figure if I’m willing to spend $500 on a bottle of wine why not accrue some insights prior.

(Edited to correct an auto correct)
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#44 Post by Will Clements » August 30th, 2020, 3:08 pm

I find that some critics are more calibrated to my taste for certain varietals.
It’s a personal thing.
Plus I like reading the articles etc. (the pictures are ok too)

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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#45 Post by NickRut » August 30th, 2020, 3:17 pm

Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:38 pm
Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm
AlexO wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm
Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.
Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.
Ha, damn man, what a hater... Just so I understand, what cocktail did I like that so offended you?

Literally laughed out loud. Equally funny was how quickly he wussed out.

Looking forward to the realm reviews. Any plans for a bigger 18 Napa review soon? Lots of stuff coming up
Rutkowski

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Marc Hauser
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#46 Post by Marc Hauser » August 30th, 2020, 3:34 pm

This is such a quintessential WB thread. OP posits something moderately provocative, using a thread title that is much more hyperbolic than the actual post. Debate ensues, questions about the OP’s qualifications/sanity in making the mildly provocative statement come out, devolves info a fight over whether points and reviewers mean anything. Someone throws in an ad hominem bomb.

The only thing missing to date is the OP posting a follow up that they didn’t really mean what everyone else originally read.
ITB-ish (unfrozen caveman cannabis lawyer and erstwhile wine lawyer)

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Keith A k e r s
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#47 Post by Keith A k e r s » August 30th, 2020, 4:55 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 5:49 pm
AlexO wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:35 pm
Like many, I subscribe to the wine advocate, along with Vinous and Jeb.
Jeb might taste the new releases, but he hasn’t the first idea of what he’s talking about, assuming you like wine not a cocktail in a bottle.

dayum and the walk back is even more amusing. I don't subscribe to Jeb, but when I see his notes I certainly get a clear feel for the wine and what I would expect from it

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Robert.A.Jr.
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#48 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 30th, 2020, 5:42 pm

And the best part is, Jeb and Pat are both good dudes and would enjoy popping something together! Granted, we may need two bottles to account for preferences! I’ll moderate.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Craig G
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#49 Post by Craig G » August 30th, 2020, 6:24 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 30th, 2020, 5:42 pm
And the best part is, Jeb and Pat are both good dudes and would enjoy popping something together! Granted, we may need two bottles to account for preferences! I’ll moderate.
Just give Jeb and your wife a bottle of Ovid and they won’t bother you while you’re drinking the weedy stuff!
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

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Thomas Keim
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Re: Has the Wine Advocate basically given up at this point?

#50 Post by Thomas Keim » August 30th, 2020, 7:00 pm

Cris Whetstone wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 10:54 am
Honest question but does anyone really wait for reviews to purchase SQN or Realm? Or is just to make sure there isn't something wrong and they suddenly released below 90 pt wines?
'Zackly - these wines are plugged in like Chateau Ste Michelle at the Wine Spectator. WE will make big, jammy, over the top wines (and release them in cool bottles with cool labels), YOU will give all of them 95+ ratings, and in five years, we will pretend they actually improved with age.

I really don't blame the Wine Advocate for going in that direction because the bulk of their readers want over the top wines - there just needs to be a bit more distinction of their target audience.
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