Acid and aging

So I opened a 2014 biggio hamina Pinot Nior and although it’s quite pleasant, the acid is pretty forward.

Does acid tone down with aging?

Technically, no. But some wines that taste very acidic at first develop more fruit with (a) age or (b) air/decanting. Some can become almost unrecognizable— smooth and lush.

Other wines are simply too tart.

Hard to know which is the case here without knowing the wine and how it’s developed in other vintages.

Your perception of acidity can change as tannins fall out of suspension which soften the wine, and esters are formed as it ages, despite the fact that the pH level never really changes. Also, bacteria can convert malic acid into lactic acid, further softening wine, but this changes the pH.

I believe that while the total amount of acidity remains constant, the acids can change as they combine with the alcohol to create esters, and your perception of the acidity may also change (likely you’ll perceive the wine to be less acidic to a point).

In bottled wine?

Uhhhh, Ian… you don’t want a M-L fermentation going on in a btls wine. It releases CO2 and almost always pretty much guts the way… at least for the next yr or two.
Tom

M-L in bottle creates an unstable situation of a sparkling wine in a regular wine bottle. Bad news.

Good point on knowing and tracking the bottle.

Back to OP…

I’ve been drinking BH wines for a few years now, some older, some younger. Oldest is an 07, still have 10s and 12s laying around for context. I would say its a Berserker Day darling for me. They generally do have that “thonk” factor up front, especially when young, and more of a style thing is my opinion. Some breathing and they are delightful. Some age and they are delightful. Also, my palate enjoys that “thonk” factor so drinking them young gives me something. Lighter in body wines is where that really stands out. BH is not a heavy wine IMO. All said, breathing and time soothes some of that from what I have experienced. And while definitely not flat, I really don’t look at the acid as being exceptionally forward. And Pinot Noir is [generally] an acidic and food friendly grape/varietal/wine to begin with.

My 2 cents.

I didn’t say it was a good thing!

Generally, I’ve thought acid allows one to age wine, tannins force you to.

I’d bet on Todd’s wine to get better over time.

Peter Rosback

Sineann

No, acid never disappears in the bottle.
On the contrary: the final state of each and every wine is vinegar, sometimes after 2-5 years, sometimes after 200-300 years.
The fruit disappears, the acidity stays.

What can happen is the convertation of malic acidity (sharper tasting) into lactic acidity (softer) - but for that certain bacteria are necessary (lactobacillus) - and that usually happens in barrels/tanks after alcoholic fermentation.

In bottle with maturity when the fruit unfolds the acidity is often less noticable (until the fruit fades - and acidity moves into the foreground again).

Hmmm… I’m not sure this is exactly correct, Robert. I’ve had lots of dead & gone wines, but I don’t recall any that have turned to vinegar/acetic acid/ethyl acetate.
To get vinegar, you have to have the presence of acetobacter. I don’t think that’s something that heavily present in the air or bottled wine. The most common wines in which I find acetic acid/EA are wines that went into the btl w/ acetobacter present. It’s not that easy to make vinegar to my experience.
But maybe I haven’t waited long enough. Not had any 200-300 yr old wines, so I could be wrong.
Tom

Perhaps he didn’t mean it in a completely literal sense Tom…

That could very well be, David.
Tom

Update: letting it sit overnight in the fridge then come up to drinking temperature yielded a better balanced wine, where the acid and tannins complement each other instead of the acid being a little overwhelming.

Yes, I did let it sit open for an hour or so before I poured a glass and let the glass sit for probably another 30 minutes last night. I’ll probably decant the next bottle 2 hours before drinking it next time.

I’m glad at least somebody wrote this. I was about to write the exact same thing.

That should do the trick. Todd and I have a lot of similarities in how we produce wines, and I really like our 2014 wines more on day 2 and 3 right now.

As you get tannin polymerization with further aging, the texture should bump up a notch or two and help to fold the acidity in. But Todd also uses a lot of stems and that really slows the aging process considerably.

To my knowledge, he also only bottles wines that are completely finished with the malo-lactic conversion.

Hey. I’m in the middle of a bike race, but let me say this: tannins lift the perceived acidity. My 14’s have a pH of 3.65 -3.8 but it doesn’t taste flabby does it?

You are doing the right thing by giving it air.

Maybe invite Charlie Fu to come over and double decant it?


Big Sky Spectaculaire. I am suffering, but it’s beautiful in Montana.

Thanks for buying my wine.

I’ve made my own vinegar for 30+ years, and I’ve found that a lot of Old World wines turn on their own (Rhones are particularly good at this). You’ll get some acetic acid aromas in a week or two at room temperature, though it can take a month or two for the bacteria to finish their jobs.

In my early vinegar-making days, I tried to make some with California chardonnay. It just wouldn’t turn. I assumed it was a probably sulfur or excessively clean winemaking.