Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

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Phil T r o t t e r
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Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#1 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

I'm new here (and not the animated gif kind... really new here). I've been reading through the forum for the past few weeks and have found great enjoyment and knowledge in the various posts. Some of you gals & guys are drinking bottles that make me very envious! I've also seen a lot of love for Champagne which is great to see.

The wife and I go through a little bit of Champagne (1 to 3 bottles a week). She grew up drinking that stuff every Sunday so I have to abide... bummer, eh?

Where I reside, Champagne is pretty expensive (between 40 and 60% more expensive than the US). Case in point: Jacques Lassaigne Montgueux, my price is 72$, US price seems between 45 and 50$. This makes the expensive stuff a little out of reach. So we rarely get to drink Selosse, Comtes de Champagne, Winston Churchill, Crystal, Dom, etc. Those are only brought out for very very special occasions.

Availability can also be an obstacle. I can't easily find everything I want and a lot of the lesser known producers, I have to buy by the case (6 or 12) making it more difficult to try different things. Also, I think I have tried all entry level cuvées from the Big Houses already.

Our go-to "weekly" drinkers over the last couple of years have been: Bérêche NV, Vilmart NV, Gonet-Médeville Tradition NV, Pierre Gerbais Grains de Celles NV, Pascal Doquet Diapason NV, Jacques Lassaigne Montgueux NV and Vincent Couche Extra Brut Millésimé. Although I love oxidative notes in wine, the wife doesn't.

I have a few bottles of Champagne in an offsite cellar and keep some at home ready to drink. I normally don't keep my weekly drinker Champagnes cellared for more than 1 to 2 years. The only bottles I am currently letting rest longer are:
NV Egly-Ouriet Champagne Grand Cru Brut Tradition
2013 Larmandier-Bernier Champagne Terre de Vertus Premier Cru
2011 Larmandier-Bernier Champagne Terre de Vertus Premier Cru
2004 Leclerc Briant Champagne Rubis de Noirs Brut
NV Jérôme Prévost Champagne La Closerie Extra Brut Les Beguines
2015 Roses de Jeanne / Cédric Bouchard Champagne Blanc de Noirs Côte de Val Vilaine
2011 Savart Champagne Extra Brut L'Année
NV Savart Champagne Premier Cru l'Ouverture


All of that to provide context and lead to 2 questions:

1. Am I missing something by not cellaring for more time my weekly drinkers?
It would eat up cellar space from other bottles I want to keep and I've never felt the need to since we like them young and I am not sure they would improve from aging.

2. What other "cheap" Champagnes could/should I add to my weekly drinkers?
I went through the forum's search function and made a short list of prospects from prior topics: Aubry premier cru brut NV, Pierre Moncuit, Henri Goutorbe, Marc Hébrart, Marie Courtin, Laherte, Ployez-Jacquemart, Legras, Lilbert and Diebolt-Vallois. Out of those, only the Laherte and Ployez-Jacquemart are readily available here. Others I will have a hard time getting a hold of. I'll also follow this post with what the wife and I drank in the last 12 months.
Any recommendations that are not in these lists would be awesome. I will then be tasked to find them locally...!

Thanks and Cheers.

Phil

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#2 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Drank in the last 12 months - I WILL REMEMBER THIS
NV Vilmart & Cie Champagne Premier Cru Grand Cellier Brut
NV Francis Boulard Champagne Les Murgiers Extra Brut
2006 Pascal Doquet Champagne Premier Cru Le Mont Aimé
NV Fleury Pere & Fils Champagne Brut Rosé de Saignée
NV Agrapart Champagne Grand Cru Terroirs Blanc de Blancs Extra Brut
2006 Pol Roger Champagne Cuvée Sir Winston Churchill
2012 Georges Laval Champagne Brut Nature Cumières


Drank in the last 12 months - GOOD
NV Pierre Gerbais Champagne Grains de Celles Extra Brut
NV Vilmart & Cie Champagne Premier Cru Grande Réserve
NV Jacques Lassaigne Champagne Les Vignes de Montgueux Blanc de Blancs Extra Brut
NV Gonet-Médeville Champagne Tradition Premier Cru Brut
NV Bérêche et Fils Champagne Brut Réserve
NV Taittinger Champagne Brut Réserve
2005 Pascal Doquet Champagne Premier Cru Blanc de Blancs Vertus
2012 Champagne Le Mesnil Champagne Grand Cru Sublime Blanc de Blancs
NV Pascal Doquet Champagne Grand Cru Diapason Le Mesnil-sur-Oger
2007 Vincent Couche Champagne Extra Brut
NV Larmandier-Bernier Longitude
NV Pierre Gimonnet & Fils Champagne Premier Cru Blanc de Blancs Brut Cuis


Drank in the last 12 months - OK
NV Émile Leclère Champagne Brut Réserve
NV Remy Bertin Champagne Brut
NV Chartogne-Taillet Champagne Cuvée Sainte Anne
NV Drappier Champagne Brut Nature Dosage Zero
NV Deutz Champagne Brut
NV Delamotte Champagne Brut
NV Louis Nicaise Champagne Premier cru rose
NV Forget-Brimont Champagne Premier Cru Brut Rosé
NV Piper-Heidsieck Champagne Brut


Drank in the last 12 months - NOT BUYING AGAIN
NV G. Gruet et Fils Champagne Brut Blanc de Blancs
NV Dhondt-Grellet Champagne Premier Cru Les Terres Fines Blanc de Blancs
NV G. H. Mumm & Cie Champagne Cordon Rouge Brut
NV Duval-Leroy Champagne Brut Rosé
2011 Louis Nicaise Champagne Cuvée Louis par Laure
NV Louis Nicaise Champagne Premier Cru Brut Réserve
2008 Sanger Champagne Grand Cru Peres d'Origines
NV Hugues Godmé Champagne Premier Cru Reserve
NV Chanoine Frères Champagne Brut Grande Réserve

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#3 Post by Jim Stewart »

No love for "big house" champagne?
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#4 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

We used to drink quite a bit of Taittinger Brut Réserve, Bollinger Spécial Cuvée, Roederer Brut and Ruinart Brut but they are now significantly more expensive than the "grower" Champagnes we drink weekly. We also enjoy Jacquesson and the wife enjoys Veuve Clicquot. It took a while before we could get a decent selection of small "grower" Champagne easily available here (it started happening about 5 years ago) so it is a nice change of pace.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#5 Post by Howard Cooper »

Try Suenen. Not a lot of experience with them but the ones I have tried seem promising.
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#6 Post by EvanLodes »

Thats a pretty good list you have there. Other growers worth exploring that are less oxidative in style:
- Pierre Peters: high quality BdB, with the Cuvee de Reserve being good QPR, but it really starts to get interesting with the Reserve Oubliee (solera-style, more oxidative notes) and of course Les Chetillons, which is not a daily drinker, but is excellent and worthy of laying down.
- Suenen: a young up-and-comer making mostly BdB. His two NV wines are called C+C and Oiry. Both are quite good, but be aware that there are different base years (which are marked on the bottles luckily) that can be quite different.
- Marie-Noelle Ledru: she retired after the 2016 vintage but is not finished selling yet. She has both a brut and extra brut NV champagne that is really excellent. Definitely worth trying before its gone (my taste runs to lower dosage, and the extra brut is particularly worth seeking out).

Also, dumb question, but if Champagne costs you 50% more than in the US, are there stores in upstate NY or VT that are in easy driving distance? At that premium, it doesn't take many bottles to make a drive worth it...

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#7 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Howard Cooper wrote: August 11th, 2020, 6:31 pm Try Suenen.
Thanks, I had never heard of it. I looked into it and I don't think they are distributed over here. However, I will put that in my "try it when abroad" list and If I like, I'll see if I can get them in contact with one of the private import agencies here.
EvanLodes wrote: August 11th, 2020, 6:33 pm - Pierre Peters: high quality BdB, with the Cuvee de Reserve being good QPR, but it really starts to get interesting with the Reserve Oubliee (solera-style, more oxidative notes) and of course Les Chetillons, which is not a daily drinker, but is excellent and worthy of laying down.
- Marie-Noelle Ledru: she retired after the 2016 vintage but is not finished selling yet. She has both a brut and extra brut NV champagne that is really excellent. Definitely worth trying before its gone (my taste runs to lower dosage, and the extra brut is particularly worth seeking out).
Pierre Péters Les Chétillons, I've heard only good things about. I don't think it is distributed here but I will inquire through their website contact form. Marie-Noël Ledru I had never heard of. But I like what I'm reading on the web. I don't see it sold here but this will be another one for the "try it when abroad" list while there are still some available! Thanks for both recommendations.
EvanLodes wrote: August 11th, 2020, 6:33 pm Also, dumb question, but if Champagne costs you 50% more than in the US, are there stores in upstate NY or VT that are in easy driving distance? At that premium, it doesn't take many bottles to make a drive worth it...
Not dumb in any way but the local government did think about that. The tax on alcool + sales tax + duties will bring it to same kind of price hike when we declare it. And we can only lawfully bring back 2 x 750ml of wine duty-free if we spent 48 hours or more outside of the country. Add to that the fact that my better half thinks I already spend way too much time researching, buying or thinking about wine and it doesn't look good for a trip to NY to bring back a few bottles. We've pretty much accepted that bubbles are more expensive here with less selection and we try to discover new ones when we are travelling.

If I look at some available stuff here that I haven't tried yet, here is what I had on my radar: Mouzon Leroux, Coessens, Roger Coulon, Benoit Lahaye, Françoise Martinot par Charles Dufour, Ruppert-Leroy, Alexandre Filaine, Champagne Clandestin, Barnaut, Clément Perseval, Roland Piollot and Jean-Baptiste Geoffroy.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#8 Post by J. Rock »

Pierre Moncuit BdB NV is great and a really great value. I highly recommend it. Also, if you haven't tried Vincent Couche Sensation, I highly recommend it (although, I don't think your wife will like it).
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#9 Post by IlkkaL »

Phil T r o t t e r wrote: August 11th, 2020, 7:56 pm If I look at some available stuff here that I haven't tried yet, here is what I had on my radar: Mouzon Leroux, Coessens, Roger Coulon, Benoit Lahaye, Françoise Martinot par Charles Dufour, Ruppert-Leroy, Alexandre Filaine, Champagne Clandestin, Barnaut, Clément Perseval, Roland Piollot and Jean-Baptiste Geoffroy.
I like Mouzon Leroux and Benoit Lahaye a lot plus many of those you listed in the original post. Some wines I would recommend to look for:

Jean Milan Transparence and Symphorine
Delamotte Millesime BdB
Chartogne-Taillet single vineyards (I love Orizeaux and Les Barres)
Henri Giraud Esprit Brut Nature and Hommage a Francois Hemart
Pierre Gimonnet whole lineup basically as you liked the entry level wine and it only gets better from there
Hugues Godmé Les Romaines and the Millesime (I don't care much for the cheaper wines but these two have been very good)
Franck Bonville BdB Millesime (great value, esp as you seem to enjoy BdB)
Roger Pouillon Les Valnons (a superb, more singular BdB)
JL Vergnon BdBs, especially Confidence
Gaston Chiquet, many good ones but I like the Blanc de Blancs d'Ay
Etienne Calsac, l'Echappée Belle and Les Rocheforts BdBs
Paul Dethune, very nice Pinot Noir based wines, I've enjoyed each and every bottle thus far
Guiborat, a bit less known but very solid BdB producer
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#10 Post by Jim Stewart »

Phil, being only "ankle deep" into Champagne myself, the volume and breadth of your Champagne drinking is impressive. FWIW, in case you have not tried them, I would recommend Ployez-Jaquemart Extra Brut Rose (delicious and 'fun' and you mentioned that Ployez is available to you) and Egly Ouriet Vignes de Vrigny (100% Pinot Meunier, different almost spicy taste profile, delicious and presumably also available to you since you have the Grand Cru Brut) Cheers.
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#11 Post by Ed Steinway »

Phil, you came to the right place to ask questions about Champagne. There are some who post here that have an immense amount of knowledge about champagne. There have been a lot of excellent recommendations so far. I would second the recommendation for Frank Bonville. I am not sure about the availability in Canada, but on the West Coast the NV BdB is around $35-$40.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#12 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Thank you all for the continued recommendations! This is great.

I will be getting these in the next few weeks: Ployez Jacquemart Extra-Brut (only one available from that house), Mouzon Leroux L'Atavique Extra Brut, Delamotte BdB 2012 and Chartogne-Taillet Les Barres. Although, even if they resonate with me after popping them open, the last three might not make the weekly drinkers list because of the price.

I found Moncuit as part of a private importers list. I'll contact them to see if I can try it in a restaurant before deciding on buying a case (not possible to buy singles here). I contacted the domaines for Péters and Bonville to see if they are imported here.

After checking, Egly Ouriet Vignes de Vrigny is by the case only... that would set me back a pretty penny I think. I'll check if I can try in a restaurant first to see if I have an "Aha! moment" and think that 6 bottles is the way to go.

Currently sold out but now part of my "on the radar" list: Lahaye, Jean Milan Grand Cru BdB, Henri Giraud Hommage à François Hémart Brut.

"Try it when abroad" now includes: Suenen, Marie-Noël Ledru, Roger Pouillon, Calsac, Dethune, Guiborat, , JL Vergnon Résonance (very short trip to the province next door required) and Chiquet (looks available elsewhere in Canada).
Phil T r o t t e r wrote: August 11th, 2020, 4:59 pm 1. Am I missing something by not cellaring for more time my weekly drinkers?
It would eat up cellar space from other bottles I want to keep and I've never felt the need to since we like them young and I am not sure they would improve from aging.
Any perspective on this one? I had bad experiences with older Lassaigne Montgueux and Bérêche Brut Réserve (oxidized)...

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#13 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

Chartogne Tallet Cuvee St Anne is a perfect house champs.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#14 Post by Michael_H »

It sounds like you already have Laherte on your list, but I would strongly recommend giving the Laherte bdb brut nature a shot. I think it would be in your wheelhouse given the wines you like and would qualify as a daily drinker for you I'd think. Cellaring daily drinkers is an interesting one, I've found that some wines really benefit from at least a year or two after disgorgement. I'm not sure how quickly champagnes make it your way after disgorgement, but I have noticed when abroad that sometimes I'll open a bottle that was recently disgorged and be less than thrilled with the results.

It sounds like a you are a fan of Lassaigne's base cuvee - I'd recommend seeking out le collinee inspiree and le cotet. They are quite different wines, but I think le cotet is about as good of a representation of montgeux's terroir that you could possible have. Just do make sure that they have at least 12-18 mo after disgorgement before popping them. I've actually really enjoyed laying the le cotet down in the cellar for a few years, I find that the minerality becomes even more pronounced and can be really great after 3-5 years of cellar time, although I don't have experience with anything more than that. He also does unique wines each vintage that can be quite fun, if you can find them.
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#15 Post by Doug Schulman »

Vilmart Grand Cellier NV can age extremely well. I recently had a bottle with over 20 years of post-disgorgement age and it was fantastic. My plan is to start laying some down, for far more than 1-2 years. I mention this because it's on your list of weekly drinkers.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#16 Post by Yao C »

Seconding the Pierre Peters recommendation
Phil T r o t t e r wrote: August 12th, 2020, 8:09 am Jean Milan Grand Cru BdB
I like their Terres de Noel, which is relatively affordable for a 'Tete de Cuvee.' Lighter and in more of an aperitif style, it is (IMO) not one for long aging, but that sounds in line with your tastes
Phil T r o t t e r wrote: August 11th, 2020, 4:59 pm Any perspective on this one? I had bad experiences with older Lassaigne Montgueux and Bérêche Brut Réserve (oxidized)...
I believe Bereche has had oxidation issues? That might be more on the producer than aging in and of itself
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#17 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: August 12th, 2020, 8:50 am Chartogne Tallet Cuvee St Anne is a perfect house champs.
I'll have to revisit this one. My last CT note for it was 2016 and it was a little ambiguous (I don't score my notes... laziness? Haven't thought of a scale that works for me? Fear?). I described it as "not bad but not great" with too much acidity too little minerality. I didn't note down disgorgement though. Maybe it was a case of opening too soon after purchase. I'll revisit as it is available here.
Michael_H wrote: August 12th, 2020, 8:54 am Cellaring daily drinkers is an interesting one, I've found that some wines really benefit from at least a year or two after disgorgement.

It sounds like a you are a fan of Lassaigne's base cuvee - I'd recommend seeking out le collinee inspiree and le cotet. They are quite different wines, but I think le cotet is about as good of a representation of montgeux's terroir that you could possible have. Just do make sure that they have at least 12-18 mo after disgorgement before popping them. I've actually really enjoyed laying the le cotet down in the cellar for a few years, I find that the minerality becomes even more pronounced and can be really great after 3-5 years of cellar time, although I don't have experience with anything more than that. He also does unique wines each vintage that can be quite fun, if you can find them.
Agree. That is my approach as well for short term rest period. I normally have enough weekly drinkers that I make sure that new purchases are not opened for the first 12 to 24 months. I find that they show better that way (time required? rest from the trip overseas?). I do deviate from that for new cuvées I want to try because I just can't keep myself in check and try them!

Le Cotet and Colline Inspirée are about 125$ here so these would go my "special occasions" Champagne storage. And I had an eye-out for them as well (I came close to buying La Colline Inspirée but actually purchased some Jérôme Prévost La Closerie Les Béguines instead). The other ones I've seen is the Clos Ste-Sophie and the Brut Nature). You've refueled my fire to purchase those.
Doug Schulman wrote: August 12th, 2020, 9:06 am Vilmart Grand Cellier NV can age extremely well. I recently had a bottle with over 20 years of post-disgorgement age and it was fantastic. My plan is to start laying some down, for far more than 1-2 years. I mention this because it's on your list of weekly drinkers.
I wish it was! It's actually part of the Champagnes I've had in the last 12 months but it's pushing 86$ here so I don't have it that often. Last time I had it was December of last year, disgorgement was November 2014 and it showed beautifully. I really have a hard-time convincing myself of cellaring Champagnes for more than 10-15 years. I've rarely had one that I enjoyed more with that much age than I did earlier in its life. I almost always give my bottles a couple of years rest. For the more serious or austere cuvées I tend to give them 7 to 10 years. There is another very interesting thread that was started today on that subject... I'm reading through it diligently (William Kelley had some great insight on Champagne longevity). I'll have to take a chance on a few bottles that I'll hide in the back of the cellar.
Yao C wrote: August 12th, 2020, 10:03 am I like their Terres de Noel, which is relatively affordable for a 'Tete de Cuvee.' Lighter and in more of an aperitif style, it is (IMO) not one for long aging, but that sounds in line with your tastes
<...>
I believe Bereche has had oxidation issues? That might be more on the producer than aging in and of itself
I don't think we have the Terres de Noël here. In fact, looking at it again, the BdB is on the website but has been off the shelves for years! I'll have to ask around to see if it will come back soon.

For Bérêche, I agree that most likely it was either the bottles or the producer. For this and my other current "house" Champagnes (Vilmart NV, Gonet-Médeville Tradition NV, Pierre Gerbais Grains de Celles NV, Pascal Doquet Diapason NV, Jacques Lassaigne Montgueux NV and Vincent Couche Extra Brut Millésimé) anybody ever had them with a little more age (5 years +) and thought they had improved?

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#18 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

EvanLodes wrote: August 11th, 2020, 6:33 pm - Pierre Peters: high quality BdB, with the Cuvee de Reserve being good QPR, but it really starts to get interesting with the Reserve Oubliee (solera-style, more oxidative notes) and of course Les Chetillons, which is not a daily drinker, but is excellent and worthy of laying down.
Yao C wrote: August 12th, 2020, 10:03 am Seconding the Pierre Peters recommendation
So I was finally able to track down who imports Pierre Péters here. They are getting a new delivery in mid-November. I could already place an order. Here is what they still have available:
  • Cuvée de Réserve: 87$/bottle, order in qty of 6, 36 bottles available
  • Grande Réserve: 94$/bottle, order in qty of 6, 18 bottles available
  • Les Chétillons: 197$/bottle, max of 2 per customer
Is the Grande Réserve worth the small hike in price compared to the Cuvée de Réserve?
Is Les Chétillons that special considering it's 197$? In comparison, Comtes de Champagne is 199$, Agrapart Avizoise is 198$ and Vilmart Coeur de Cuvée is 160$.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#19 Post by Yao C »

I have no idea what the difference is between the Grande and the regular

I definitely view the Chetillons on the same level as the Comtes, and I regularly buy it to age
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#20 Post by EvanLodes »

Phil T r o t t e r wrote: August 18th, 2020, 9:44 am So I was finally able to track down who imports Pierre Péters here. They are getting a new delivery in mid-November. I could already place an order. Here is what they still have available:
  • Cuvée de Réserve: 87$/bottle, order in qty of 6, 36 bottles available
  • Grande Réserve: 94$/bottle, order in qty of 6, 18 bottles available
  • Les Chétillons: 197$/bottle, max of 2 per customer
Is the Grande Réserve worth the small hike in price compared to the Cuvée de Réserve?
Is Les Chétillons that special considering it's 197$? In comparison, Comtes de Champagne is 199$, Agrapart Avizoise is 198$ and Vilmart Coeur de Cuvée is 160$.
My understanding is that the Grande Reserve is also known in the U.S. as the Cuvee Reserve Oubliee, which includes a solera-style perpetual reserve. If that is correct, I would try both since they are different wines, the former (Cufee de Reserve) being lighter and fresh, and the latter being a bit richer, slightly more oxidative style (the price differential is much larger in the U.S. between the Cuvee de Reserve and Reserve Oubliee).

And yes, Chetillions is a really special wine, and I think in the ballpark as the other wines that you mention, and is even better with a bit of bottle age.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#21 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

EvanLodes wrote: August 18th, 2020, 1:34 pm My understanding is that the Grande Reserve is also known in the U.S. as the Cuvee Reserve Oubliee, which includes a solera-style perpetual reserve. If that is correct, I would try both since they are different wines, the former (Cufee de Reserve) being lighter and fresh, and the latter being a bit richer, slightly more oxidative style (the price differential is much larger in the U.S. between the Cuvee de Reserve and Reserve Oubliee).

And yes, Chetillions is a really special wine, and I think in the ballpark as the other wines that you mention, and is even better with a bit of bottle age.
Thanks. I decided to get all three Cuvées (got 2 x Les Chétillons, max I could get)... I suck at saying no....

From what I was told, Cuvée de Réserve is 50% blend from previous year and 50% current vintage with 24 to 36 months on lees before disgorgement. Every year, half the blend is kept in stainless, concrete and oak to be used as base for the next year. Currently, the base is 2017 but with vintages going back to 1988 based on perpetual reserve.

Réserve Oubliée is based only on reserve wines. It is a blend based on the 3 best "cuves de réserve" kept to make the Cuvée de Réserve (best stainless, best concrete and best oak foudre). It is kept 5 to 6 years on lees before disgorgement. Currently, it is a 2014 base with again, vintages going back to 1988 based on perpetual reserve.

The new cuvée, Grande Réserve, is a blend of 75 to 80% blend of the vintage and 20 to 25% of the blend made for the Réserve Oubliée. It spends 36 to 48 months on lees prior to disgorgement. The current base is 2016 and has slightly more than 20% Réserve Oubliée.

Full info from the importer (in French) below:
En résumé, tout part du principe d'élaboration de la Cuvée de Réserve
Comme vous le savez, ce Champagne non millésimé est élaboré sur le principe des réserves perpétuelles.
La Cuvée de Réserve est assemblée tous les ans à partir d'environ 50% de l'assemblage de l'année précédente et 50% de vins de la nouvelle récolte.
(Tous les ans, environ la moitié de l'assemblage réalisé n'est pas mis en bouteille mais conservé en réserve dans des cuvées inox, des cuves en béton et des grands foudres de chêne, afin de servir de base l'année suivante)
Cette cuvée bouchée avec une capsule couronne classique, est vieillie entre 24 et 36 mois sur lies avant dégorgement.
Actuellement, il s'agit d'une base 2017, mais avec des millésimes qui remontent à 1988 sur le principe de la réserve perpétuelle.
Une fois saisie ce principe il est facile de comprendre La Réserve Oubliée
Cette cuvée est issue uniquement des vins de réserve.
Il s'agit d'un assemblage réalisé à partir de vins des trois meilleurs cuves de réserve conservées pour l'élaboration de la Cuvée de Réserve : du vin de la meilleure cuve Inox, du vin de la meilleure cuve Béton et du vin du meilleur Foudre.
Cette cuvée est bouchée de façon artisanale et traditionnelle avec un bouchons en liège puis elle est vieillie entre 5 et 6 ans sur lies avant dégorgement.
Actuellement, il s'agit d'une base 2014, avec bien sûr des millésimes qui remontent à 1988 puisqu'il s'agit de la réserve perpétuelle.
La nouvelle venue, La Grande Réserve est assemblée à partir de 75 à 80% de assemblage de qualité millésime et 20 à 25% de l'assemblage réalisé pour la Réserve Oubliée.
Cette cuvée bouchée avec une capsule couronne classique, est vieillie entre 36 et 48 mois sur lies avant dégorgement.
Actuellement, il s'agit d'une base 2016, à laquelle a été ajouté un peu plus de 20% des meilleurs vins de notre réserve remontant à 1988.

https://www.champagne-peters.com/fr/accueil
https://www.champagne-peters.com/sites/ ... eserve.pdf
https://www.champagne-peters.com/sites/ ... erve_1.pdf

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#22 Post by Yao C »

Thank you for the info on the Grande Reserve! Seems right up my alley and I'll look for it in the US
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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#23 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

I tried a few of the recommendations from this topic (the ones I could find) over the past few weeks. I also have an order of Pierre Péters due to come in around November. So to all who contributed, thank you.

Today, I was offered some Jean Sandrin Champagne (Tradition, Harmonie, Prestige, Rosé Aurore and "Les Madeleines" ). I don't know this producer at all but the prices on this offer are very decent. I looked at CellarTracker reviews and they point to a little bit of RS perceived on their Champagnes (I looked on the producer's website and they seem to remain in the 6 to 8g/l i.e. Brut). There are only few reviews on the web. Does anybody have any experience with this producer?

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#24 Post by Blake Brown »

Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I'll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers
"In victory you deserve Champagne. In defeat, you need it".
Napolean Bonaparte

“Remember gentlemen, it’s not just France we are fighting for, it’s Champagne!” – Winston Churchill

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#25 Post by Howard Cooper »

Blake Brown wrote: October 16th, 2020, 7:03 am Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I'll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers
Phil,

The best suggestion I can give you is to do a search for Blake's tasting notes on Champagne on this board. I often tease him that reading his notes is about the most expensive thing I do on this board, but there is some really wonderful information on these notes.
Howard

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#26 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Blake Brown wrote: October 16th, 2020, 7:03 am Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I'll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers
Two very good recommendations for the big houses NV. The Charles Heidsieck, we don't always have access to but we've had it a few times when we find it. The Roederer is pretty much always available and it is part of our regular big houses purchases (along with Taittinger, Bollinger, Ruinart and Jacquesson). I've also seen it mentioned many times that for NV entry cuvées, Charles Heidsieck could live a pretty long life and is enjoyable with some age on it. By the way, I read through your "aging champagne" topic a few weeks ago and found it very interesting.

You are right that I love a great QPR! We do splurge on many occasions and the cellar is full of good stuff but we go through a lot of bubbles and we (used to...!) host pretty often and almost always start with Champagne. In regards to importing, it's not the shipping that hurts. It's the taxes (including the provincial liquor monopoly, SAQ, "markup" they charge on liquor import even for private consumption).

As an example, a bottle of Roederer Brut NV is sold for 74.75 CAD. A decent US price seems to be around 40 USD. That's about 53 CAD. Let's assume 5$ shipping from NY or VT. And now we add the CSBA fees (customs, excise tax and federal sales tax) that's about 10$. And now the kicker... the SAQ fees because everything liquor related has to go through them, that's about 40$... yes, 40$ because they charge you a markup so that you are not tempted to buy elsewhere and bypass the system. Your Louis Roederer Brut NV will cost you 108$. Fail.

We just have to live with the fact that Champagne is more expensive around here (not the worse problem in life, we would all agree). My workaround: I go to France pretty often and indulge as much as I can in more expensive or harder to find bottles while I am there.

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#27 Post by Phil T r o t t e r »

Howard Cooper wrote: October 16th, 2020, 7:11 am Phil,

The best suggestion I can give you is to do a search for Blake's tasting notes on Champagne on this board. I often tease him that reading his notes is about the most expensive thing I do on this board, but there is some really wonderful information on these notes.
Righto. From the ones I've read, I agree! Very informative TNs and frequent postings in the "Which Champagne are you drinking" thread.

In regards to my Jean Sandrin inquiry: have you or anybody tried their Champagnes?

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Re: Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

#28 Post by Blake Brown »

Phil T r o t t e r wrote: October 16th, 2020, 9:52 am
Blake Brown wrote: October 16th, 2020, 7:03 am Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I'll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers
You are right that I love a great QPR! We do splurge on many occasions and the cellar is full of good stuff but we go through a lot of bubbles and we (used to...!) host pretty often and almost always start with Champagne. In regards to importing, it's not the shipping that hurts. It's the taxes (including the provincial liquor monopoly, SAQ, "markup" they charge on liquor import even for private consumption).

As an example, a bottle of Roederer Brut NV is sold for 74.75 CAD. A decent US price seems to be around 40 USD. That's about 53 CAD. Let's assume 5$ shipping from NY or VT. And now we add the CSBA fees (customs, excise tax and federal sales tax) that's about 10$. And now the kicker... the SAQ fees because everything liquor related has to go through them, that's about 40$... yes, 40$ because they charge you a markup so that you are not tempted to buy elsewhere and bypass the system. Your Louis Roederer Brut NV will cost you 108$. Fail.

We just have to live with the fact that Champagne is more expensive around here (not the worse problem in life, we would all agree). My workaround: I go to France pretty often and indulge as much as I can in more expensive or harder to find bottles while I am there.
I had a feeling you were taking some extra hits in Canada and agree, you may just have to bite the bullet in some instances to get what you want or desire to try. Meanwhile, it appears you're drinking lots of good stuff and life is good. Lots of cheers,
"In victory you deserve Champagne. In defeat, you need it".
Napolean Bonaparte

“Remember gentlemen, it’s not just France we are fighting for, it’s Champagne!” – Winston Churchill

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