Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

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Jake Bilbro
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Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#1 Post by Jake Bilbro » July 29th, 2020, 1:22 pm

I'm compelled to write this as we were the topic of a thread this morning that has since been deleted but was never resolved publicly and in my opinion was very misleading as to the customer service we offer at Limerick Lane.

In the thread, we were called out for shipping wine in July which turned out to be false. I was able to clarify within hours of the post that the wine in question actually shipped 6 weeks ago via cold chain and was signed for upon receipt. I also clarified that as the wine was being shipped an email notification was sent out with tracking number.

While I appreciate that the thread was taken down, as other berserkers were asking as to how we responded (Mark Rudner in particular) there was never a public resolution.

First off the order was refunded in full.

Second, at Limerick Lane we strive for the highest level of customer service and as a small business I think we do an excellent job. Especially in times like these, small businesses are getting stretched pretty thin and customer service is often the make or break point.

When shipping wine from CA to the extreme east coast (or anywhere else for that matter) our primary focus is always the quality of the wine with regard to heat.

In this case, the cost to ship the order in question which we incurred 100% was nearly half the cost of the entire purchase.

Regardless of destination, we monitor heat very closely and only ship when we feel the temps are safe. (I have no upside in shipping wine if the wine is damaged in the process)
In addition, separately from UPS we send notification with tracking number when we deem temps are safe for the order to be shipped and are more than happy to reschedule shipment if requested.

I’m very sorry the customer was unhappy with our service but upon review I also stand by our communication, our service, and the quality of the wine in the bottle when it was signed for.

Regardless, the experience was not to the satisfaction of the customer and for that I apologize hence the refund.

It isn't my intent at all to call anyone out but I feel very strongly that as we were accused of something in a public forum, it was appropriate to share that we were in fact not only accused incorrectly, we took the situation a step further in our efforts to honor and respect the customer in question.

To accuse and then not clarify both the inaccuracy of the accusation as well as how we resolved the situation was unfair and potentially damaging to our reputation.

I hope the customer in question enjoys the wine and am in no way trying to call them out as that would do me no good.

Incidentally, 2018 is one of my favorite vintages that we’ve produced and I’m certain the specific bottles in question will taste great.

Respectfully,

Jake Bilbro
Limerick Lane

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#2 Post by BlaineRyanHunt » July 29th, 2020, 1:24 pm

Seems like since the other thread was deleted, creating this thread is just going to attract negative attention that otherwise could have been avoided.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#3 Post by Rodrigo B » July 29th, 2020, 2:07 pm

BlaineRyanHunt wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 1:24 pm
Seems like since the other thread was deleted, creating this thread is just going to attract negative attention that otherwise could have been avoided.
I sure hope that’s doesn't become the case. It appears that the producer was simply trying to answer questions several forum members likely had.

I think the update is meant to clarify how the winery handles shipping in warm weather and perhaps even more importantly, how they responds to customers complaints. I think this is valuable insight for consumers to have as to the practices and standards of a winery or retailer.

Jake- thank you for the update on the matter
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#4 Post by Andrew Demaree » July 29th, 2020, 4:06 pm

I didn’t see the original thread, but it sure seems appropriate for Jake to come here and clarify/defend their customer service if he feels it was inappropriately maligned here.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#5 Post by c fu » July 29th, 2020, 4:15 pm

I deleted the thread as the original poster didn't seem to have much interest in correcting his original post on his error

But for other purposes - cold chain isn't an adequate solution as the final trip from the warehouse to the delivery location is not in a refrigerated truck. My worry is almost never the transport between the shipper to the shipping city, but that final leg in the delivery truck. Even if shipped in june it's pretty hot, that's a big risk still. I know some other retailers/wineries have stopped using cold chain as a summer option as it doesn't really protect the wine in the end.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#6 Post by Andrew K. » July 29th, 2020, 4:52 pm

TBH I read the original thread in its entirety and didn't think it showed poorly on the vendor at all. A bit of overreaction to create this thread IMO.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#7 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » July 29th, 2020, 4:54 pm

c fu wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:15 pm
I deleted the thread as the original poster didn't seem to have much interest in correcting his original post on his error

But for other purposes - cold chain isn't an adequate solution as the final trip from the warehouse to the delivery location is not in a refrigerated truck. My worry is almost never the transport between the shipper to the shipping city, but that final leg in the delivery truck. Even if shipped in june it's pretty hot, that's a big risk still. I know some other retailers/wineries have stopped using cold chain as a summer option as it doesn't really protect the wine in the end.
I think cold chain originally was supposed to deliver by 1030 am but lately it is not. I had a shipment arrive via the new “cold chain” and it was at best room temp on delivery around noon.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#8 Post by Scott Brunson » July 29th, 2020, 5:01 pm

Limerick shipped my last order cold chain at the end of June. Bottles were cool to the touch (and the wine is fantastic).
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#9 Post by c fu » July 29th, 2020, 5:24 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:54 pm
c fu wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:15 pm
I deleted the thread as the original poster didn't seem to have much interest in correcting his original post on his error

But for other purposes - cold chain isn't an adequate solution as the final trip from the warehouse to the delivery location is not in a refrigerated truck. My worry is almost never the transport between the shipper to the shipping city, but that final leg in the delivery truck. Even if shipped in june it's pretty hot, that's a big risk still. I know some other retailers/wineries have stopped using cold chain as a summer option as it doesn't really protect the wine in the end.
I think cold chain originally was supposed to deliver by 1030 am but lately it is not. I had a shipment arrive via the new “cold chain” and it was at best room temp on delivery around noon.
yeah, i know a few people that have had seepage from bottles during the final leg of cold chain cause it was 90F+ in the final destination
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#10 Post by Steve L Gellman » July 29th, 2020, 5:28 pm

c fu wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:15 pm
I deleted the thread as the original poster didn't seem to have much interest in correcting his original post on his error

But for other purposes - cold chain isn't an adequate solution as the final trip from the warehouse to the delivery location is not in a refrigerated truck. My worry is almost never the transport between the shipper to the shipping city, but that final leg in the delivery truck. Even if shipped in june it's pretty hot, that's a big risk still. I know some other retailers/wineries have stopped using cold chain as a summer option as it doesn't really protect the wine in the end.
I thought it best to delete the post. I felt the resolution was a personal matter and responded privately

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#11 Post by TDwyer » July 29th, 2020, 8:21 pm

My experience with Limerick Lane has been nothing but exceptional. In fact, Jake and Ilana are currently holding two cases for me, waiting for a good weather shipping window to open. The first case was actually shipped in April, but was damaged before it reached my house and returned to sender. No questions asked, but I did request they hold off on re-shipping until the Fall as things were starting to heat up in St. Louis. I ordered another case in May with the same shipping request. Same customer friendly response as they were more than happy to accommodate. I really enjoy Limerick Lane wines and sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze. This may be one of those times and I'll stand by Jake on this one.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#12 Post by Brian Tuite » July 29th, 2020, 9:12 pm

In retrospect I always refer to the quote in my signature line. While the customer is always right, reality is they overreact 90%+ of the time and often jump to irrational conclusions. But you smile, take care of their needs and when needed cover your ass. Jake is an upstanding individual who always goes the extra mile. He and Limerick Lane reside high on my respect list.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#13 Post by Bob C » July 29th, 2020, 10:16 pm

I ordered from Limerick Lane a month or so ago, and they accidentally shipped (To Texas). Once I received the shipping notification, I contacted them, and they immediately recalled the shipment.

Their customer service was great in quickly resolving, which I very much appreciated.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#14 Post by Adam Frisch » July 30th, 2020, 4:23 am

Shipping in the hot months really is tricky. There really is no door to door cold solution. So then you try to find windows or accept that wine will most likely get well above 70 degrees for a short period, but hopefully not over 90 degrees. Tablas Creek had a pretty good article about it and some good points: as long as seal isn't compromised and oxygen expansion has not pushed cork, the wine is pretty much intact. However, there seems to be a broader opinion that wine hitting above 90 degrees rapidly declines and ages prematurely. But I think it depends. A racy wine might do better here and a very rich, soft thing less so.

Personally, for wines I buy, I accept shipping during pretty much all months. But then again, I don't buy wines much over $50/bottle, so it's a risk I can live with. I might think differently if every bottle was $200. That said, I've not personally had any wine go bad on me, but I will certainly respect any customer who wants to wait until cooler temps.

And then there was that Paso Mourvedre I'd forgotten in my truck for numerous hot summer months - drank fine in the end. I didn't expect that.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#15 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » July 30th, 2020, 4:52 am

c fu wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:15 pm
I deleted the thread as the original poster didn't seem to have much interest in correcting his original post on his error

But for other purposes - cold chain isn't an adequate solution as the final trip from the warehouse to the delivery location is not in a refrigerated truck. My worry is almost never the transport between the shipper to the shipping city, but that final leg in the delivery truck. Even if shipped in june it's pretty hot, that's a big risk still. I know some other retailers/wineries have stopped using cold chain as a summer option as it doesn't really protect the wine in the end.
100% on the cold chain comment, especially since I live in Sunny Florida. It can be high-80s outside by 10:30 AM, hotter in a truck for the final leg. I rarely have wine shipped over summer though did just pay extra for overnight with early morning delivery and an ice pack for a special wine. That worked well, but only works if there is no delay in shipping, which can happen during these odd times. I totally assumed that risk, all in me.

So the OP got a free case of wine, lol.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#16 Post by Adam Lee » July 30th, 2020, 7:18 am

I still don't understand why the original post talked about Limerick Lane shipping in the middle of July when the wine was, per Jake's tracking, shipped and received in the middle of June. If I were the winery in question, and was called out on something I didn't do, I'd want to be able to correct that.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#17 Post by Brian Tuite » July 30th, 2020, 9:15 am

Andrew K. wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:52 pm
TBH I read the original thread in its entirety and didn't think it showed poorly on the vendor at all. A bit of overreaction to create this thread IMO.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#18 Post by lleichtman » July 30th, 2020, 11:09 am

Jake Bilbro wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 1:22 pm
I'm compelled to write this as we were the topic of a thread this morning that has since been deleted but was never resolved publicly and in my opinion was very misleading as to the customer service we offer at Limerick Lane.

In the thread, we were called out for shipping wine in July which turned out to be false. I was able to clarify within hours of the post that the wine in question actually shipped 6 weeks ago via cold chain and was signed for upon receipt. I also clarified that as the wine was being shipped an email notification was sent out with tracking number.

While I appreciate that the thread was taken down, as other berserkers were asking as to how we responded (Mark Rudner in particular) there was never a public resolution.

First off the order was refunded in full.

Second, at Limerick Lane we strive for the highest level of customer service and as a small business I think we do an excellent job. Especially in times like these, small businesses are getting stretched pretty thin and customer service is often the make or break point.

When shipping wine from CA to the extreme east coast (or anywhere else for that matter) our primary focus is always the quality of the wine with regard to heat.

In this case, the cost to ship the order in question which we incurred 100% was nearly half the cost of the entire purchase.

Regardless of destination, we monitor heat very closely and only ship when we feel the temps are safe. (I have no upside in shipping wine if the wine is damaged in the process)
In addition, separately from UPS we send notification with tracking number when we deem temps are safe for the order to be shipped and are more than happy to reschedule shipment if requested.
I'm not sure it was wise to relitigate this issue. The thread had already been closed. Yes, you did more than the right thing by the customer but this just keeps the story going.

I’m very sorry the customer was unhappy with our service but upon review I also stand by our communication, our service, and the quality of the wine in the bottle when it was signed for.

Regardless, the experience was not to the satisfaction of the customer and for that I apologize hence the refund.

It isn't my intent at all to call anyone out but I feel very strongly that as we were accused of something in a public forum, it was appropriate to share that we were in fact not only accused incorrectly, we took the situation a step further in our efforts to honor and respect the customer in question.

To accuse and then not clarify both the inaccuracy of the accusation as well as how we resolved the situation was unfair and potentially damaging to our reputation.

I hope the customer in question enjoys the wine and am in no way trying to call them out as that would do me no good.

Incidentally, 2018 is one of my favorite vintages that we’ve produced and I’m certain the specific bottles in question will taste great.

Respectfully,

Jake Bilbro
Limerick Lane
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#19 Post by lleichtman » July 30th, 2020, 11:12 am

Adam Frisch wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 4:23 am
Shipping in the hot months really is tricky. There really is no door to door cold solution. So then you try to find windows or accept that wine will most likely get well above 70 degrees for a short period, but hopefully not over 90 degrees. Tablas Creek had a pretty good article about it and some good points: as long as seal isn't compromised and oxygen expansion has not pushed cork, the wine is pretty much intact. However, there seems to be a broader opinion that wine hitting above 90 degrees rapidly declines and ages prematurely. But I think it depends. A racy wine might do better here and a very rich, soft thing less so.

Personally, for wines I buy, I accept shipping during pretty much all months. But then again, I don't buy wines much over $50/bottle, so it's a risk I can live with. I might think differently if every bottle was $200. That said, I've not personally had any wine go bad on me, but I will certainly respect any customer who wants to wait until cooler temps.

And then there was that Paso Mourvedre I'd forgotten in my truck for numerous hot summer months - drank fine in the end. I didn't expect that.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#20 Post by Hank Victor » July 30th, 2020, 11:43 am

Scott Brunson wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Limerick shipped my last order cold chain at the end of June. Bottles were cool to the touch (and the wine is fantastic).
[cheers.gif]
Same with my order in early June sent to South FL
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#21 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » July 30th, 2020, 3:44 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:54 pm
c fu wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 4:15 pm
I deleted the thread as the original poster didn't seem to have much interest in correcting his original post on his error

But for other purposes - cold chain isn't an adequate solution as the final trip from the warehouse to the delivery location is not in a refrigerated truck. My worry is almost never the transport between the shipper to the shipping city, but that final leg in the delivery truck. Even if shipped in june it's pretty hot, that's a big risk still. I know some other retailers/wineries have stopped using cold chain as a summer option as it doesn't really protect the wine in the end.
I think cold chain originally was supposed to deliver by 1030 am but lately it is not. I had a shipment arrive via the new “cold chain” and it was at best room temp on delivery around noon.
Early today I was going to post that cold chain arrives before 10:30 In downtown Pittsburgh. My UPS cold chain from PAX arrived at 6 PM today. No seepage but bottles were at 80 degrees. I know Littorai doesn’t believe cold chain works.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#22 Post by Albert R » July 30th, 2020, 3:53 pm

Hank Victor wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 11:43 am
Scott Brunson wrote:
July 29th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Limerick shipped my last order cold chain at the end of June. Bottles were cool to the touch (and the wine is fantastic).
[cheers.gif]
Same with my order in early June sent to South FL
Mine arrived in mid-June in South Florida as well. We opened a bottle and it was fine. Given the discount I chose to try one before contacting Limerick.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#23 Post by Brad England » July 30th, 2020, 4:26 pm

I applaud the winery for trying its best. But what I don't understand is why anyone (buyer or seller) would ship in the summer. If the buyer requires it, then it's their risk. And if the seller essentially requires it, even via cold chain, then shame on them. But why not ship in October? Seems simple.
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#24 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » July 30th, 2020, 5:12 pm

Brad England wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 4:26 pm
I applaud the winery for trying its best. But what I don't understand is why anyone (buyer or seller) would ship in the summer. If the buyer requires it, then it's their risk. And if the seller essentially requires it, even via cold chain, then shame on them. But why not ship in October? Seems simple.
You think it’s only Berserkers running out of storage? Sales to restaurants are way down so there is additional inventory that needs to be sold. A lot of discounts on cold chain.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#25 Post by Jake Bilbro » July 31st, 2020, 12:43 pm

Hey all,

Just a quick follow up:
1. It was never my intent to call anyone out, merely to clarify a situation and how we handled it. I am massively grateful for our customers and my intent was to highlight that gratitude by clarifying this situation for any future customers. -If there's an issue with our product, we deal with it 100%.

2. I agree that cold chain shipping is not without it's faults and what really vexes me is that since Covid, we are finding more and more that we can't reliably depend on shippers which is challenging to say the least for a winery that depends on shipping for the majority of its business.

3.I am grateful and tip my hat to those who posted on this thread and shared their opinion/experience in a positive/constructive manner. I RARELY post on any public site as it seems to devolve quickly and that is not the case here.

4. If anyone else has any issues with our wines/shipping/etc please reach out to me directly and we will address your concerns straight away.

My sincerest gratitude goes to Steve who initiated this discussion with his original post as without his sharing his experience, I wouldn't be able to address the situation.

Warmest wishes and coolest wine wishes to you all.

Jake Bilbro
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#26 Post by Jeff_M. » July 31st, 2020, 1:15 pm

Jake Bilbro wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:43 pm
Hey all,

Just a quick follow up:
1. It was never my intent to call anyone out, merely to clarify a situation and how we handled it. I am massively grateful for our customers and my intent was to highlight that gratitude by clarifying this situation for any future customers. -If there's an issue with our product, we deal with it 100%.

2. I agree that cold chain shipping is not without it's faults and what really vexes me is that since Covid, we are finding more and more that we can't reliably depend on shippers which is challenging to say the least for a winery that depends on shipping for the majority of its business.

3.I am grateful and tip my hat to those who posted on this thread and shared their opinion/experience in a positive/constructive manner. I RARELY post on any public site as it seems to devolve quickly and that is not the case here.

4. If anyone else has any issues with our wines/shipping/etc please reach out to me directly and we will address your concerns straight away.

My sincerest gratitude goes to Steve who initiated this discussion with his original post as without his sharing his experience, I wouldn't be able to address the situation.

Warmest wishes and coolest wine wishes to you all.

Jake Bilbro
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#27 Post by Steve L Gellman » July 31st, 2020, 1:51 pm

I was hoping this thread was going to die a natural death but I feel the need to clarify a few points. It was never my intention to “ not clarify both the inaccuracy of the accusation as well as how we resolved the situation”. Jake responded to my original post showing how I was incorrect on my dates. I thought my non response to his post showed I was incorrect on my dates. I then posted I was going to email Jake privately, which I did. I then posted the issue was resolved. I do not believe I needed to explain publicly how we resolved the situation. I’m happy we could resolve the issue amicably.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#28 Post by Gabe Berk » July 31st, 2020, 2:04 pm

Brad England wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 4:26 pm
I applaud the winery for trying its best. But what I don't understand is why anyone (buyer or seller) would ship in the summer. If the buyer requires it, then it's their risk. And if the seller essentially requires it, even via cold chain, then shame on them. But why not ship in October? Seems simple.
Most wineries have take a LARGE financial hit losing out on sales in the On Premise segment (restaurants, hotels, resorts) as well as at their visitor center/tasting rooms and are offering allocations earlier and "online specials" on current and past releases as a way to recoup some of their large loss of revenue from the before mentioned segments. This opens up the door to losses during shipment that otherwise normally wouldn't exist. As a consumer, I know I'd just ask the winery to hold off on shipping once the weather cools off a bit. I highly doubt any wineries are requiring wine be shipped in the summer.

I applaud Limerick Lane on them wanting to clarify a situation and explain how they handled it. Looks like they put their customer first before anything.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#29 Post by larry schaffer » July 31st, 2020, 3:17 pm

Just an FYI - shipped a case of rose Fed Ex Ground to Chicago on Wednesday with an ice pack per the customer's request and it arrived today - with the wine still cool to the touch.

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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#30 Post by Steve Costigan » July 31st, 2020, 9:44 pm

LL rocks. Full refund was unnecessary imho but exudes class.

Had a reciprocal problem. A highly regarded WA state producer was shipping club orders to southwest states after Thanksgiving. I guess they thought the entire SW was like Phoenix. I had to get on their case that here in NM most of the state is over 5000 ft in elevation, and with me living at 7400 ft and thinking about skiing that time of year, shipments were more likely to arrive frozen than heat damaged that late. They appreciated the info.

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c fu
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#31 Post by c fu » July 31st, 2020, 10:25 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 3:17 pm
Just an FYI - shipped a case of rose Fed Ex Ground to Chicago on Wednesday with an ice pack per the customer's request and it arrived today - with the wine still cool to the touch.

Cheers.
It only took two days fedex ground from SBC to Chicago? Normally takes me a week to get wine from Chicago and same as sending stuff to chicago.
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larry schaffer
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#32 Post by larry schaffer » August 1st, 2020, 12:07 am

c fu wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 10:25 pm
larry schaffer wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 3:17 pm
Just an FYI - shipped a case of rose Fed Ex Ground to Chicago on Wednesday with an ice pack per the customer's request and it arrived today - with the wine still cool to the touch.

Cheers.
It only took two days fedex ground from SBC to Chicago? Normally takes me a week to get wine from Chicago and same as sending stuff to chicago.
Yep - shipped 2 cases. One delivered today and the other scheduled for Monday. You never know.....
larry schaffer
tercero wines

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: Limerick Lane and shipping in hot temps

#33 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 1st, 2020, 5:36 am

I have been offered Cold Chain on a couple of shipments this July, and declined. I can wait until October. I previously had two Cold Chain shipments in late May and early June. Both were delivered in late afternoon (5 ish), and while not hot, it convinced me that with the shipping channels so overloaded right now I could not count on UPS or FedEx to meet their promises.

As for Jake, he’s another stand up guy in a stand up family. Shipping is a PITA at best, so kudos to him for doing everything he can to make things work.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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